Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (6.3%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
34 (70.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (14.6%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 113776 times)

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OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #779 on: November 29, 2017, 03:51:58 PM »
Controversial Llandudno Pier Pavilion development gets planning meeting date

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CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #780 on: December 02, 2017, 08:56:38 PM »
Mostyn Estates has lodged its objections to the revised plans it's now on the planning portal.

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #781 on: December 06, 2017, 10:06:51 AM »
Llandudno pier 'in jeopardy' if pavilion development goes ahead

The owner of the pier has made the claim ahead of a crunch planning meeting on the restaurants and apartments plan.
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DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #782 on: December 06, 2017, 11:32:56 AM »
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Llandudno pier 'in jeopardy' if pavilion development goes ahead

The owner of the pier has made the claim ahead of a crunch planning meeting on the restaurants and apartments plan.
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I find this a little odd, to be honest.  I credit Mr Williams with being a sharp guy and there's no way that he would not have realised before buying the pier  that a redevelopment of the Pavilion site was on the cards at some point.

If he thinks about it, he might realise that a building that is almost primarily apartments is almost an ideal scenario for him. After all, I doubt Mr Williams would wish to have most people's preferred option for the site - a multi storey building filled with national chains running attractions and restaurants? Now, that really would be serious competition and a major problem for the pier...


OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #783 on: December 06, 2017, 12:13:55 PM »
Waldron's continuing arrogance never ceases to amaze:

Quote
At no stage has the developer sought to engage us [Mr Williams, Pier owner] with the result that his plans are incomplete in areas that directly affect the pier. The building process alone is likely to damage the pier both commercially and structurally.

Surely Mr Williams would be one of the first people you'd approach and do everything in your power to get their support?

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #784 on: December 06, 2017, 10:23:45 PM »
Planners recommend the plans for the Pier Pavilion.             &shake&


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Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #785 on: December 06, 2017, 10:38:23 PM »
Interesting.



DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #786 on: December 07, 2017, 11:26:28 AM »
It was always going to be recommended for approval, as the application met all the relevant planning guidelines.

The procedure now is that if the Planning Committee go against the officer's recommendation at the forthcoming meeting, then it automatically goes on the agenda at the next planning meeting to be considered again. If it is turned down again, then the applicant has the option of appealing the decision by way of a WG Planning Inspector. Personally, I would consider it unlikely that a Planning Inspector would reject the proposed development.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #787 on: December 07, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »
On that basis, providing your application meets all the relevant planning guidelines then you should be able to build what you want and where you want.  That doesn't seem right to me.    &shake&

Affordable housing hasn't been mentioned and that is a matter that developers overlook in their quest for maximum profit, but that is a requirement too.
Waldron certainly didn't include affordable housing in his Glan Conwy site so shame on the CCBC planning department for not sorting him or any other developers out

 

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #788 on: December 07, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »
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On that basis, providing your application meets all the relevant planning guidelines then you should be able to build what you want and where you want.  That doesn't seem right to me.    &shake&

Affordable housing hasn't been mentioned and that is a matter that developers overlook in their quest for maximum profit, but that is a requirement too.
Waldron certainly didn't include affordable housing in his Glan Conwy site so shame on the CCBC planning department for not sorting him or any other developers out

Mr Waldron has still got to get around the legal Covenants that restrict what he can provide on the site. Covenants that were put on to protect the Pier and are as binding today as they were when first put there. If he thinks he's going to find Adam Williams a push over, then in my opinion, he is going to be sadly mistaken. Unless of course it was Waldons intention just to end up building a luxury apartment development in the first place. Far more profit in that no doubt.
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #789 on: December 07, 2017, 05:55:48 PM »
Blongb,    I've said it before on here but a few years ago I had a face to face meeting with the Chief Planning Officer of CCBC and his exact words were "  the Covenants are not worth the paper they are written on"  so presumably Waldron knows this and that's why he is pressing ahead with the application.

Having said that there must be some way of Adam Williams stopping access from the site on to the Pier or does Waldron expect Adam Williams to move some of the kiosks just so he can get the application through.

I'm not sure if my memory is correct but when I read the original application was there something in it saying that if the two restaurants could not be occupied that there was a clause saying that they also could be converted into apartments?

Cambrian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #790 on: December 07, 2017, 07:01:28 PM »
Covenants can be tricky.  To enforce you need to be a beneficiary - usually a successor to the entity which originally imposed them.  This can be difficult to establish as many covenants were imposed in the 19th century and some may now be in breach of subsequent legislation or be obsolete. In any event, there is a right to appeal to the Upper Tribunal - dealing with land issues - to get them set aside for various reasons. Sometimes covenants can be confused with planning conditions which can be enforced by the local authority.

Robbie G

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #791 on: December 07, 2017, 07:45:15 PM »
IT appears that we are all looking for way and means to stop this development ,and I hope we succeed , while I can appreciate the pier owners concerns is the land freehold or leasehold where do Mostyn Estates stand if it is leasehold can they refuse access to the site ? nothing appears to be straight forward ,perhaps this is to be expected with CCBC

CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #792 on: December 07, 2017, 07:47:05 PM »
The Design Commission for Wales came out strongly against the revised designs, they were critical about quite a few things (it's on the planning portal) concluding that it still wasn't a good enough design for such a prestigious site.  So a few (unelected) individuals in CCBC planning think differently.  I hope our  democratically elected representatives have been listening to the vast majority of their constituents and read what the DCW says, along with the very damning Mostyn Estates objection letter and the one from Adam Williams planning professional representatives sent in which also agreed with the Mostyn objections that the plans don't meet several planning rules... not to mention the CCBC Business and Tourism Department saying it didn't support the application. Who do these planning officers think they are ...?

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #793 on: December 07, 2017, 10:19:31 PM »
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IT appears that we are all looking for way and means to stop this development ,and I hope we succeed , while I can appreciate the pier owners concerns is the land freehold or leasehold where do Mostyn Estates stand if it is leasehold can they refuse access to the site ? nothing appears to be straight forward ,perhaps this is to be expected with CCBC

Robbie the Pavilion site is freehold and not owned by Mostyn Estates but I don't know the position about the freehold of the Pier itself