Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.4%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (75%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.5%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 170241 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #795 on: December 08, 2017, 10:09:30 AM »
Hi Norman, thanks for that info on the Pier.   It could be a case of two immovable objects clashing if neither party is prepared to compromise.       What worries me is that everything has a price and Waldron could make an offer for access that Adam Williams would be silly to refuse.
We'll have to wait and see.

Hope that you are keeping safe and well in Llandudno.    It's been hailing and snowing up here and it's sticking and Mrs H has gone shopping in the Bay so I don't know if she'll be able to get up the hill in her car.
They have forecast heavy snow here this afternoon so we'll have to see how it goes.

norman08

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #796 on: December 08, 2017, 10:16:30 AM »
All good down here ,yes you certainly get the snow up there our youngest is up Denbigh way on the turbines ,hope the snow eases before Sunday to get to the derby ,hope Mrs H gets back home safe .

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #797 on: December 08, 2017, 10:35:47 AM »
Thanks Norman, Mrs H has just got back but we can't get the car on the drive so have had to park it near the road.
I don't envy your youngest up in Denbigh as it can be quite bad up there sometimes.
I'm staying put for now but I've got a walk fixed for tomorrow but who knows what will happen with the weather in the meantime

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #798 on: December 08, 2017, 01:37:53 PM »
This is on FB


CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #799 on: December 08, 2017, 01:49:37 PM »
The plans show that the development has access to the pier for the whole of the buildings length.  Adam Williams is not going to move his kiosks to provide that access and seems pretty certain (his legal people) that there is no right of way/access apart from a small area by the two old staircases.  Waldron also seems sure that he does have right of access or else why plan for it???
The planning department say:
"Whilst this right of access may be disputed by the owner of the pier, the right of access may not be a planning consideration if it is not relevant to the regulation of the development and use of land in the public interest.  However, if the access is necessary to make the development acceptable in planning terms, the Local Planning Authority could consider imposing planning conditions or Planning conditions should not be imposed on land that is not under the control of the applicant, but it may be possible to impose conditions to require that the development does not commence until the access to the pier has been provided.  The developer would then need to resolve the right of access issues with the owner of the pier."

So the lawyers would have to slug than one out, as they would with the covenants the Pier holds on the site, which have been mentioned elsewhere on this forum and which are cited in the latest Pier objection letter on the planning portal.  I'm pretty sure Adam will fight not to have to remove his 12 kiosks as that is where he gets a very large proportion of his income and which he could not replace (and those kiosk tenants would lose their livelihoods) and so its imperative to him that they remain.  Unless Waldron agrees to cover the cost of those 12 kiosks in perpetuity I can't see any other deal that would attract Adam to move them...wouldn't tempt me if I was pier owner.  As someone already said this could get messy and the council planning department couldn't give two hoots!
 $angry$

Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #800 on: December 08, 2017, 03:38:31 PM »
If it was me I would sell it with Planning permission which will leave a good profit I think

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #801 on: December 08, 2017, 04:08:52 PM »
The only problem is, is that Waldron doesn't have planning permission and with a bit of luck won't get it either.    He had an option to buy the site but has he taken up the option?



OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #802 on: December 08, 2017, 05:07:13 PM »
Sadly if/when Waldron's money-making exercise starts to be built I won't be returning to Llandudno to see it's Victorian heritage destroyed. Just about every important view will be lost to this monstrosity. Curiously the "Future of Llandudno Action Group", which was set up to actively campaign against this development, hasn't updated their facebook page since 4 November. Their silence is deafening.

CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #803 on: December 09, 2017, 12:58:38 PM »
I was part of FLAG and a few weeks ago the Chairperson resigned, no one else wanted to take on the role.  I did not feel I was an appropriate person as I have too much personal vested interest.  So nothing has been done with the FB page since.  I have a personal FB page called Save Our Seafront, which I started well before FLAG was founded.  I continue to put information and updates on that page.  I'm in touch with the pier management and get some info (what they want to tell me!!) from that source and our local councillors are very helpful and supportive too.  Harry Saville has personally sent in an objection letter and Louise Emmery is part of the Business and Tourism Office and the head of that office has put in an official 'we cannot support this' memo.  I was told by both Louise and the pier management that Waldron did indeed purchase the land outright as his option ran out, he renewed it but it ran out again and he had to purchase the land to keep hold of things.  He is not giving in easily!  I've also had several communications with the planning department who have provided some information. 

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #804 on: December 11, 2017, 08:43:01 AM »
Why has the FLAG Chairperson resigned at such a critical juncture in proceedings?

OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #805 on: December 11, 2017, 11:15:04 AM »
Seems strange why FLAG, which was started over a year ago, would fold now. They were recognised as one of the main objectors, representing the views of the public. Now we are left with no group speaking up for the individual objectors. Surely the group must have had more members than just the chairperson/founder who should have stepped up, at least for the next month or so? I sincerely hope no pressure from outside sources caused the groups demise. I did offer some help, albeit from afar, at the outset with posters, website, etc but they seemed to have everything in hand at the time.

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #806 on: December 11, 2017, 12:50:13 PM »
More B*******

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SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #807 on: December 11, 2017, 02:58:19 PM »
This comment from the above article      *Last week officers recommended the project for approval and the planning committee will meet to discuss the application on Wednesday.*   
I did not realise they had recommeded  approval,     sad day      :( :(

OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #808 on: December 11, 2017, 03:20:08 PM »
More waffle from Waldron

Quote
“This is one of the most viewed sites in Llandudno, but basically it’s been nothing more than a hole in the ground for decades so seeing it up and running, providing employment and bringing people to the town for quality food and drink, is surely a far better alternative?”

It's because it's one of the most viewed sites in a Victorian town that we don't want a modern block of flats put there. The hole in the ground is virtually invisible as it stands and is far preferable to his proposed erection.

CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #809 on: December 11, 2017, 07:37:40 PM »
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Why has the FLAG Chairperson resigned at such a critical juncture in proceedings?
He actually resigned as Chair in late summer when he moved from Llandudno to Conwy. He didn't think it should be led by someone living in Conwy. Go figure? When the revised plans were released I continued to make posts to the FB page for information. Even though he had resigned (but only told 2 other group members) I asked if he would convene a meeting, but that never happened. I live across the road from the site and did not/do not believe I am appropriate as I'm not at all impartial.  I believe People would decry someone who had so much personally to lose running the group. Another member resigned due to ill health and no one else volunteered. I used to run FB posts and press releases by the chair before making them public, with no one to run them by I felt I should no longer post,  so it died.  I now just  post personally on Save Our Seafront.