Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.5%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
41 (74.5%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.7%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 160296 times)

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Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #810 on: December 11, 2017, 08:11:29 PM »
Today I received a copy of a letter from Alan Williams Solicitor, which he has submitted to each Planning Committee Member, for them to consider before their meeting on Wednesday.  Whilst he admits the Planning Officers do not have to take into account the restrictive covenants on the site when making their recommendations to the main Planning Committee, it does sets out in no uncertain terms the legally enforceable breaches Waldron's Plans would fail to comply with. Only a blind fool would pass the proposal now, as in any future High Court case they would be unable to deny they had been informed of the Codicil's which were put there to protect the Pier from such proposed developments on the Pavilion site.
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #811 on: December 11, 2017, 08:43:40 PM »
Crass scar on landscape' Mostyn Estates delivers scathing attack on Pier Pavilion development
The landowner's comments come as pier boss also warns he will halt investment on the historic attraction.

* In our opinion it is a low grade design that falls so far below what is expected in Llandudno, as to be an insult to the original architects of the town.

"It would be a crass scar on the landscape, that clearly can only benefit the applicant alone. *


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Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #812 on: December 11, 2017, 09:22:01 PM »
But... if the development fits the criteria for the the planners and the laws governing planning applications, then surely itís very difficult for the the committee to overrule their own colleagues.

As I understand it, if they do reject the application, then the Welsh Assembly planning body would rule on the appeal.  They would decide solely on the legal criteria and without any sentiment.

Iím not sure that Mr Waldron, if his architects and solicitors have done their homework, can be derailed indefinitely.
Fester...
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OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #813 on: December 11, 2017, 10:20:21 PM »
Perhaps if he does get the go-ahead it can be made next to impossible for him to carry out the work? Surely they can refuse to let him block the pavements or roads with equipment and supplies? Any vehicles could be ticketed. The pier owner could take action over excess noise, etc. How come they can ban plastic window frames but not this?

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #814 on: December 11, 2017, 10:38:46 PM »
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Today I received a copy of a letter from Alan Williams Solicitor, which he has submitted to each Planning Committee Member, for them to consider before their meeting on Wednesday. 

We did something similar when a PLC made an application for planning in our street.      The  Planning Office who advised the Planning Committee of the application only present a short precis of the objections raised.    What we did was to deliver personally to every Planning Committee member a copy of every one of our full objections to the proposal.     There were over 32 objections and the letters were delivered about a week before the hearing so that the Councillors could read and digest all of our concerns.
The PLC tried three times to amend the application but in the end we were lucky and the Planning Committee refused the application

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #815 on: December 12, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
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Crass scar on landscape' Mostyn Estates delivers scathing attack on Pier Pavilion development
The landowner's comments come as pier boss also warns he will halt investment on the historic attraction.

* In our opinion it is a low grade design that falls so far below what is expected in Llandudno, as to be an insult to the original architects of the town.

"It would be a crass scar on the landscape, that clearly can only benefit the applicant alone. *


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I suspect the only thing Mostyn Estates are upset about is that they're not making any money out of the scheme...

Who remembers them demolishing a chapel in order to build a concrete monstrosity of a shopping centre on Mostyn Street in the 1970s?
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DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #816 on: December 12, 2017, 08:28:13 AM »
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Today I received a copy of a letter from Alan Williams Solicitor, which he has submitted to each Planning Committee Member, for them to consider before their meeting on Wednesday.  Whilst he admits the Planning Officers do not have to take into account the restrictive covenants on the site when making their recommendations to the main Planning Committee, it does sets out in no uncertain terms the legally enforceable breaches Waldron's Plans would fail to comply with. Only a blind fool would pass the proposal now, as in any future High Court case they would be unable to deny they had been informed of the Codicil's which were put there to protect the Pier from such proposed developments on the Pavilion site.
It's irrelevant to any planning application, so will not be considered by the Planning Committee.



CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #817 on: December 12, 2017, 09:24:06 AM »
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Crass scar on landscape' Mostyn Estates delivers scathing attack on Pier Pavilion development
The landowner's comments come as pier boss also warns he will halt investment on the historic attraction.

* In our opinion it is a low grade design that falls so far below what is expected in Llandudno, as to be an insult to the original architects of the town.

"It would be a crass scar on the landscape, that clearly can only benefit the applicant alone. *


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I suspect the only thing Mostyn Estates are upset about is that they're not making any money out of the scheme...

Who remembers them demolishing a chapel in order to build a concrete monstrosity of a shopping centre on Mostyn Street in the 1970s?
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I sent a copy of my objection letter to all of the councillors and I think one or two other people may have done so.  I also emailed all the councillors to request that they read all of the objections and not just rely on the summaries given to them by the planning officers in the report...which as they have made their minds up can hardly be impartial summaries!!  If you have sent in an objection letter the email addresses  of all planning committee councillors are on the FLAG page and also on my Save Our Seafront FBpage...you may have to scroll to find them as more posts have been added since I put them up.  The meeting tomorrow at 2pm at Bondlondeb offices in Conwy is open to the public so if you are able to please turn out to demonstrate opposition.

Nemesis

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #818 on: December 12, 2017, 05:24:27 PM »
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Today I received a copy of a letter from Alan Williams Solicitor, which he has submitted to each Planning Committee Member, for them to consider before their meeting on Wednesday. 

We did something similar when a PLC made an application for planning in our street.      The  Planning Office who advised the Planning Committee of the application only present a short precis of the objections raised.    What we did was to deliver personally to every Planning Committee member a copy of every one of our full objections to the proposal.     There were over 32 objections and the letters were delivered about a week before the hearing so that the Councillors could read and digest all of our concerns.
The PLC tried three times to amend the application but in the end we were lucky and the Planning Committee refused the application
almost as many letters of objection

Nine years ago we raised over 100 signatures and over 100 letters of objection to a hostel which was proposed here. Amazingly when we went to the planning office and asked to see the 'objections' half the letters were missing. Strange that when we tacked the subject they were mysteriously found in another file !!! I think we also did as you did and sent letters to all the planning committee. Sufficient to say it all went ahead.......................and there has been trouble in the area ever since. :-X
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CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #819 on: December 12, 2017, 06:00:41 PM »
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Today I received a copy of a letter from Alan Williams Solicitor, which he has submitted to each Planning Committee Member, for them to consider before their meeting on Wednesday. 

We did something similar when a PLC made an application for planning in our street.      The  Planning Office who advised the Planning Committee of the application only present a short precis of the objections raised.    What we did was to deliver personally to every Planning Committee member a copy of every one of our full objections to the proposal.     There were over 32 objections and the letters were delivered about a week before the hearing so that the Councillors could read and digest all of our concerns.
The PLC tried three times to amend the application but in the end we were lucky and the Planning Committee refused the application
almost as many letters of objection

Nine years ago we raised over 100 signatures and over 100 letters of objection to a hostel which was proposed here. Amazingly when we went to the planning office and asked to see the 'objections' half the letters were missing. Strange that when we tacked the subject they were mysteriously found in another file !!! I think we also did as you did and sent letters to all the planning committee. Sufficient to say it all went ahead.......................and there has been trouble in the area ever since. :-X

All objection letters get an official response from the council, so if anyone has posted or emailed an objection and not received a response from CCBC acknowledging receipt they should first check the planning portal on CCBC website and if their letter is not there then chase up the planning department. There are about 48 objections up on the portal.

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #820 on: December 12, 2017, 11:57:48 PM »
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Perhaps if he does get the go-ahead it can be made next to impossible for him to carry out the work? Surely they can refuse to let him block the pavements or roads with equipment and supplies? Any vehicles could be ticketed. The pier owner could take action over excess noise, etc. How come they can ban plastic window frames but not this?

Orme mac, forgive me, but didnít you say that you didnít live in Llandudno , and therefore wouldnít be adversely affected if a development went ahead on the site?   If so, why are you so vehemently encouraging direct action and disruption?  Iím puzzled.



Fester...
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Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #821 on: December 13, 2017, 12:06:40 AM »
I have no axe to grind either way about the Pier Pavilion development, because it doesnít benefit me, nor does it disadvantage me.
But what I find strange is the level of opposition to this, from very wealthy land owners and business owners (with vested interests maybe?) ....  where were they when that REAL monstrosity, the wind farm, was erected as a complete and utter blight on the seascape.

The Pier pavilion site is as nothing compared to that abomination, and at least the Pavilion development will create some jobs after the initial disruption.

The wind farm is disgusting, itís ugly and shameful.
It benefits German shareholders and no one else.

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #822 on: December 13, 2017, 08:47:25 AM »
I don't agree about the wind farm, Fester; for a start it's quite a way off the foreshore, is isolated and not affecting anything else, and is a feature of interest, if not somewhat elegant in its own right.  I like windmills.

The new Waldron hutch, however, is going to make a significant difference to the Llandudno skyline; there's nothing elegant about it, it's not in keeping with the Victorian style (for those who like that sort of thing) and apart from benefiting a few wealthy individuals I don't see what positive contribution it's going to make, other than to Wladron's bottom line.

On the flip side, the site has remained vacant for a long time, now, and the fire didn't have the immediate effect of allowing construction there in short order. But the point's been made that CCBC had the opportunity to enforce a CPO and didn't; so perhaps this is yet another incidence of gross incompetence or worse by our beloved leaders.
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Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #823 on: December 13, 2017, 12:09:39 PM »
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Orme mac, forgive me, but didnít you say that you didnít live in Llandudno , and therefore wouldnít be adversely affected if a development went ahead on the site?   If so, why are you so vehemently encouraging direct action and disruption?  Iím puzzled.

Whilst I don't live in Llandudno I've visited regularly since 1973 and don't want to see it's unique heritage destroyed. Llandudno as a whole would be "adversely affected" if this development was to go ahead in my opinion and I'm sure many other regular visitors would feel the same way. To me "direct action and disruption" means people on the streets stopping work from progressing. The point I was trying to make, most likely badly, was that should the development be given the go-ahead Mr. Waldron would still be relying on the goodwill of others which he can't take forgranted. For example to complete the frontage of the building on the boundary with the pier he would most likely need to erect scaffolding on land owned by the owner Mr. Williams. Mr. Waldron hasn't even had the decency to ask if such access would be possible and this permission could be refused. The same applies to stopping up orders for the street, blocking pavements, etc. Getting permission to build is one thing, dealing with everything that's required to make the build happen is another.

norman08

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #824 on: December 13, 2017, 12:13:29 PM »
Fester ask the many local lads that work on the turbines who it benefits ,I think they would say they keep them in work nothing else round here for them .