Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.5%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
41 (74.5%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.7%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 158624 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DaveR

  • Administrator
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #675 on: March 21, 2017, 08:25:00 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I think best plan for the site would be for the council to refuse all planning applications that involve very rich people trying to get richer, who have no concern for the community or the view at all! until the value of the site is reduced to a level that the council can buy it and turn it into a children's playground or other project valued by the people and ratepayers of Llandudno.
If we follow your logic to its ultimate conclusion, then Llandudno itself wouldn't exist...  ;D

"Have you heard? That Lord Mostyn wants to ruin our beautiful sand dunes by building a seaside resort with loads of ugly hotels all over them."


DaveR

  • Administrator
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #676 on: March 21, 2017, 08:40:20 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
i was looking at the FLAG  Website earlier today to see what it was saying about the proposed Pier Pavilion application.   Amongst all the comments was a bit about the restaurants.     In it it quoted some of the conditions in the application, chapter and verse and in it I read that if the developer cannot find suitable occupiers for the restaurants then the developer reserves the right to convert the space for the restaurants into apartments.
Now if that doesn't show you how untrustworthy these developers are then nothing will.       
I've looked again for it but can't find the article so I can't quote the exact details but I do know what I've read.
Anwyl's application for the Penmorfa Hotel site  is obvious in it's blatant deception but this one is more underhand and sneaky
Planning permission doesn't work like that though, Hugo. Any change of use from the agreed permission would require a completely new Planning Application. And does anyone seriously believe that restaurants in a prime position like that wouldn't be let immediately?

FLAG say that:

"FLAG would like to see the site developed as a major attraction for the town, a modern day Pavilion for the benefit of the local people and hundreds of thousands of tourists that visit. By moving forward with a sympathetic development that will attract new tourism and a younger demographic, its future will be secured for many years to come. And with it the town’s continuing prosperity."

Well, yes. That would be fantastic. But the problem is that no developer wants to do that. In 20+ years, the only proposals that have come forward are for a very large hotel or the current proposed development. There's nothing else on offer, sadly.

And let me ask this question...where were all the people now talking about how wonderful the old Pavilion was, when it was left rotting away for 10 years? I was there at that time working next door on the Pier in the early 90s and I used to spend the odd lunch break with a hammer and nails, trying to seal up doors and windows in the Pavilion to prevent vandals getting in to destroy the building. If only all the people who are so vociferous now had banded together then, we could have saved the original building and still have it in use today.

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #677 on: March 21, 2017, 09:20:44 AM »
Dave,  I'm only quoting what I read somewhere on the FLAG website and the conditions that were in the application.    As for how planning permission works then I'm at a loss to understand some of the rules.
Take the eyesore at the other end of the prom namely Ysgol Gogarth.   They applied to build it and then it was found that they had built it too high.
Simple solution, retrospective planning application that was passed with no problem.

There are ways and means to get around planning rules, just ask Anwyl's they are turning into experts on the subject.

CMG

  • Member
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #678 on: March 21, 2017, 12:39:26 PM »
Before Waldron came in with his digger the site looked OK in that it was completely overgrown, so it was green and most of the rubble etc was hidden by this growth. Also unless you were on the Great Orme you really couldn't see the hole from anywhere else, certainly not from the promenade. The eyesore was the rusty old colonnade pillars still standing. Now, however it is a total mess, all created by Waldron...yet another ploy to get people saying do something...anything to hide that ugly hole! If he doesn't get permission (please God) I hope the actual owner and the council make him tidy the site up.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:57:59 PM by Ian »

CMG

  • Member
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #679 on: March 21, 2017, 12:41:29 PM »
Sorry don't know why the photos are showing upside down.

OrmeMac

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #680 on: March 21, 2017, 04:00:46 PM »
I agree, a virtually hidden empty hole is better than an oversized monstrosity. Fill it with earth and landscape it if you must but wait until the right developer comes along with the right proposals which put Llandudno first and not just a money-making exercise we will all live to regret very quickly.

Neil

  • Member
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #681 on: March 21, 2017, 04:27:23 PM »
Yes some locals at the time almost certainly said something like that, but I think we all agree that the Victorians involved in developing Llandudno made a first class job of producing a holiday resort that has stood the test of time and it's very important that it stays that way. The proposed building looks Art Deco in design and I know there are many fine examples of Art Deco buildings in the area which is probably why they have gone for this design, but I think it's much to big.
It seems amazing to me that the same councillors who made a hotelier remove a oval sign because it wasn't Victorian could pass this scheme.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I think best plan for the site would be for the council to refuse all planning applications that involve very rich people trying to get richer, who have no concern for the community or the view at all! until the value of the site is reduced to a level that the council can buy it and turn it into a children's playground or other project valued by the people and ratepayers of Llandudno.
If we follow your logic to its ultimate conclusion, then Llandudno itself wouldn't exist...  ;D

"Have you heard? That Lord Mostyn wants to ruin our beautiful sand dunes by building a seaside resort with loads of ugly hotels all over them."





hollins

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #682 on: March 21, 2017, 05:04:38 PM »
Totally agree with the last two posts and CMG's photos illustrate the points well.
What an awe inspiring vista of the sweeping bay and the line of coordinating hotels.
I don't see any flat roofs there.

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #683 on: March 22, 2017, 01:03:25 PM »
The extraordinary meeting at the Llandudno Town Hall tonight at 6.00pm to discuss the proposed plans for the Pier Pavilion should be interesting and quite lively



You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

SteveH

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #684 on: March 22, 2017, 01:11:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The extraordinary meeting at the Llandudno Town Hall tonight at 6.00pm to discuss the proposed plans for the Pier Pavilion should be interesting and quite lively
Thanks for that,H. Have downloaded poster for those that cant see the link.

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #685 on: March 22, 2017, 01:17:14 PM »
I'm surprised that it hasn't been advertised more in view of its importance and although I can't make it there tonight I would imagine some of the forum members will be there

Ian

  • Administrator
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #686 on: March 22, 2017, 01:20:46 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm concerned that people who are opposed to this development may believe that another developer will suddenly pop up to build a replica of the original Pavilion building if they oppose Waldron's plans. I believe the chances of that happening are approximately zero (otherwise it would have happened years ago) and the end result is that we will be left with a derelict site for another 20+ years.

Dave: had a thought about your original post on this. It's my understanding that the original site owner wouldn't sell and simply hung on to the site in the hope that the obvious mess would force CCBC to allow his hotel. So it's perhaps an error to assume that something might have happened before now. I do agree CCBC should have acted long ago with a CPO, but that's past incompetence for you. We can only hope the current level of incompetence doesn't adopt an 'Anything's better than nothing' view.   
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #687 on: March 22, 2017, 03:00:36 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
. We can only hope the current level of incompetence doesn't adopt an 'Anything's better than nothing' view.

If only we had your optimism Ian.       Try not to think of the Penmorfa Hotel, the West Shore sea defence, the infamous cycle track on the West Shore, the quarry waste on the North Shore, The Skip,  Colwyn Bay Pier, etc       &shake&
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 04:49:52 PM by Ian »

TheMedz

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #688 on: March 22, 2017, 04:08:03 PM »
Looking down on this (Monaco/Monte Carlo) today and thinking whether this development was all started by one unsightly building being given planning permission ?

CMG

  • Member
Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #689 on: March 22, 2017, 04:52:41 PM »
Goodness right in the centre of the second Monte Carlo photo is a building very similar to the proposed monstrosity...perhaps the one architect at Creu has been on holiday there.?!