Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 160422 times)

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Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 08:12:55 AM »
It was!

Trouble is, those things were built when they could provide the main draw for tourists visiting the towns. These days, they're simply one of many - although the experiences of places where they've invested heavily in 'legacy-type' attractions suggests there's still money to be made.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Merddin Emrys

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2010, 09:37:55 AM »
Sadly, another pier gone, this time at Hastings :(

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DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2010, 09:49:20 AM »
What happened at Hastings could easily happen at Colwyn Bay, the pier is in a similar condition.  :(

With Hastings, it was a real shame, because they had a very active 'save the pier' group that had forced the local council to do a compulsory purchase of the pier so they could take it over and restore it as a community facility.

Some photos of the fire by Simon Hookey on Flickr:

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« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 08:33:37 PM by DaveR »

Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2010, 12:24:44 AM »
I love Piers, always have...and this is a shocking tragedy...
Scumbag Arsonists too ..!   
They will no doubt be sentenced to 12 months probabtion ... when they should really be hung, drawn and quartered.

It could EASILY happen at Colwyn Bay ... not so easily in Llandudno, (I sincerely hope) as there are fire prevention systems in place ... security on duy, but more importantly there are no high buildings which would spread the fire.

I am deeply gutted for the townspeople of Hastings, and I hope and pray that the iron pilings at least are not beyond repair.

It looks bleak though.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2010, 08:45:08 AM »
I've been wondering what the possibilities of building a completely new type of Pier might be.  If single, 'Y"-shaped concrete pilings were used to support a deck, it might be a great deal cheaper than attempting to resuscitate  the current ironwork.  Still cost a fair bit, of course, but at least it might last for a longer period - and even attract some serious investment.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2010, 09:35:27 AM »
Concrete has been used on several seaside piers but it is not as resilient as the cast iron pile, surprisingly. The pier at Boscombe was completely rebuilt using concrete in 1959-62 but the pierhead had to be closed in 1991 and the main neck of the pier in 2001, due to structural problems. Compare that with Llandudno's 1876 pier, which is still going strong with the original cast iron piles. Indeed, it is never the cast iron piles that cause the problems, but the latticework girders that rest on them - they suffer badly from corrosion. This is certainly the case at Colwyn Bay, where the piles are fine but approximately 40% of the girders need replacement/repair.

Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2010, 09:55:29 AM »
Interesting.  Cast iron must resist NaCl quite well.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.



DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2010, 11:00:16 AM »
Cast iron generally has a better resistance to corrosion than wrought iron and steel; this is due to its high carbon content (5%) and crystalline microstructure including flakes of graphite.

If anyone is interested in the condition of Hastings Pier structure, here is the report:
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« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 11:03:39 AM by DaveR »

Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2010, 11:20:59 AM »
These flakes of graphite certainly get around

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“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2010, 09:37:46 PM »
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Cast iron generally has a better resistance to corrosion than wrought iron and steel; this is due to its high carbon content (5%) and crystalline microstructure including flakes of graphite.

If anyone is interested in the condition of Hastings Pier structure, here is the report:
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I found that report fascinating ... just goes to show what an anorak I have become.

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2010, 09:46:51 PM »
You will also savour the new Business plan drawn up for the Pier before the fire then:
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Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2010, 10:00:08 PM »
OMG !! ..... How stupid of me ... how did I miss that opportunity?

The sorely needed indoor childrens play area needs to be created on Colwyn Bay Pier, in the landward building .... and use THAT revenue to regenerate the rest of the pier over time.
That can be accelerated by WAG grants, the issuing of Shares ... or the ability to borrow based on the income stream.
Forget the original indoor market idea.... the Kids indoor play area is the way to go.

Tell the Save The Pier people without delay.



Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

SCMP

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 06:43:57 PM »
Hello there,
I’m new to posting on this forum but I have gone through phases of reading the Three Towns Blog but have been online much recently. Love the new forum!

With regards to the pier…

I may have picked up a couple of things about the pier, some may have been all ready posted and some not… please don’t shoot me!

The pier is still legally in the ownership of RPH (Royce, Peeling and Green) the receivers based in Manchester representing Mr Withernshaw (sp?).

Mr Steve Hunt still has the keys to the pier.

The ‘Conwy County Borough Council’ do not want to own the pier and do not have the funds to go about this but they do (as does the regeneration body) want the pier or something of focal point where the pier is to bring people through the town and on to the waterfront (works starting at the end of the month near the pier I believe). They have a ‘Task & Finish’ group and the pier is on their list of ‘to do’.

The ‘Victoria Pier Pressure Group’ got together after the 1st public meeting to keep pressure on the council to not drop the issue of the pier and to ensure that there was a 2nd meeting.

David Jones decided before the 2nd public meeting that he wanted to make a ‘Steering Group’ involving the community, which he offered to all that attended the meeting. The pressure group stood up and about 8-10 other people did.
David Jones collected the list of details and there was to be a meeting arranged after the May elections. This however did not happen due to the election! He couldn’t pass on the details of people’s names and addresses to anybody but the pressure group went on ahead picking up a few more members.

During the past few months nothing much has been in the press or ‘online’ as all parties involved with the ‘what to do with the pier problem’ from what I know have all been quite busy behind the scenes but with so many issues hanging around the pier it is not something that is easily talked about in public as it tends to anger some group or somebody I guess.

RPG have been in talks with the CCBC. VPPG have spoken with Steve Hunt. The T&FG have been in talks with the surveyors. The CCBC have been in talks with VPPG. RPG have met with the VPPG and so on and so forth. Nothing official but it’s always good to keep open communication and throw ideas around. Nothing has been put in writing from what I know; it has all been dialogue between parties for options of how to save the pier.

With regards to RPG, CCBC and Mr Hunt that could affect what happens to the pier. If the pier is still in the hands of RPG by law it will revert back to Mr Hunt after 3 years, this is up on July 2011. I think RPG does not want to have the pier in their hands as it is in their best interest to sell it to gain the money for the creditors.
CCBC as a whole do not want to own the pier but would like to something done with it and aim to support it if not in private hands.

I believe that a community cooperative not for profit type group is the best way to get funding and grants. The Welsh Assembly Government and Heritage Lottery fund would be accessible for funding and grants if such a group owns the pier. I also believe there are many others that would be to.  If the pier is in private hands it closes the door to most funding and grants and the pier would need over time to get it started on the way to a complete overhaul and the few million pounds it would need. Long term for the pier to be viable it has to be self-sufficient and be a benefit to the community.     

That’s just my two pence!

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2010, 08:20:14 AM »
Welcome to the Forum, SCMP, and a great first post from you.  :)

I agree that the pier needs to be run by a non-profit group and I just wish something would happen to break the deadlock so they can get stuck in before the pier deteriorates further.

Do you know if RPG are willing to entertain offers from potential buyers for the pier, as I'm surprised no-one has put a bid in so far?

SCMP

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2010, 06:38:13 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for the welcome DaveR  :)

The non profit way is they way to go i think as long as it works along side the council and gets the proper advice, backing for appropriate bodies and liability cover etc... Even this way it will take a very long road to be restored but at least it will be moving!

RPG are willing to entertain 'reasoable' offers. They would normally value a business property on the value of the turnover but because the pier was barely trading before it was closed down and accounts sketchy it would be valued £0 in theory. The other option it that they may just price it at scrap value which would really be worthless due to the de-listing process (yes even that awful building at the front it listed) that it would have to undertake and the cost of pulling it down lol so really they would be throwing 'ball park' figures to cover costs and the creditors :-\

SCMP