Author Topic: National politics  (Read 319036 times)

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Offline Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #300 on: August 04, 2015, 12:45:24 pm »
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  I am fascinated by the Labour leadership contest. Jeremy Corbyn, IRA apologist, supporter of Hammas, Hezbollah and failed leftist leaders who wants to scrap the British monarchy is romping away with the contest.
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Nothing in the first two lines you wrote is accurate in any way
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Your ability to dismiss what is right in front of you is amazing.  It was you that said "Nothing in the first two lines you wrote is accurate in any way" wasn't it? And they were the first two lines I've commented on, aren't they?

Let's get this clear: you said " Nothing in the first two lines you wrote is accurate in any way" so, by extension, it was all inaccurate or, to put it another way, wrong. Right?

But I'm puzzled: which bit is wrong? Yes - you then went on to post more, and attempted to retract what you'd said by inference. But it still comes back to your fairly clear statement that " Nothing in the first two lines (he) wrote is accurate in any way. But it is. And it's all well documented.

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apparently you and Bosun knows more about who Corbyn 'supports' or 'agrees' with than he does

Well, that's why you have social historians - so they can deduce what people would rather others didn't know.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #301 on: August 04, 2015, 02:05:35 pm »
Ian

Jeremy Corbyn is NOT an IRA apologist (I assume Bosun means Provisional IRA by this rather than the IRA)
Either way he isn't one.

He is NOT a supporter of Hamas or Hezbollah (as discussed)

He does NOT want to scrap the British Monarchy "“I am at heart, as you very well know, a republican. But it’s not the fight I’m going to fight.”"


everything Bosun said is wrong. It's black and white, clear as crystal, red as Stalin's backside.


Offline Bosun

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Re: National politics
« Reply #302 on: August 04, 2015, 03:15:03 pm »
Born2Run, let me make the facts perfectly clear, Jeremy Corbyn is the man who sympathised with violent Irish Republicanism in the 1980s, invited IRA representatives to the Commons a fortnight after the Brighton bombing in 1984 and, at a Troops Out meeting in 1987, stood for a minute’s silence to ‘honour’ eight IRA terrorists killed in an SAS ambush. A decade before the IRA ceasefire, he worked hard to build links between Labour and the PIRA, regularly hosting senior figures from their political wing in Parliament, calling for British withdrawal from Northern Ireland and paying tribute to deceased terrorists. Jeremy Corbyn also employed a convicted IRA terrorist as a researcher, notwithstanding that the conviction was later overturned on a technicality. I shall ignore the semantics as to whether you wish to term them IRA or PIRA, they are to all intense and purpose the same, murderers.

Further, the following may be (or, I suspect not) of interest to you, and is and has been, widely reported in the British press, which, if untrue would by now be the subject of a libel case.

Hamas, whose aim remains the complete destruction of Israel and which continues to kill civilians, is supported with fervour by Mr Corbyn who has taken thousands of pounds in gifts from organisations closely linked to the terror group, whose operatives he describes as “friends”. In February 2013, he and his wife travelled to Gaza thanks to a £2,800 gift from Interpal, a British charity banned by the US government as ‘part of the funding network of Hamas’ and as a terrorist organisation in its own right.
Interpal is allowed to operate in the UK after claiming it has broken its links with Hamas, a claim accepted by the Charity Commission. However, Interpal’s managing trustee, Essam Mustafa, was pictured eighteen months ago accompanying the Hamas leader, Ismail Haniyeh, on an official visit in Gaza. The two were filmed clapping and singing an anti-Israeli song in praise of Hamas’s military wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, and Hamas’martyrs’. Dr Mustafa is a former member of Hamas’s executive committee. In 2012, Mr Haniyeh and Dr Mustafa visited the homes of Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, a senior Hamas leader who once promised he would "kill Jews everywhere," and Sheikh Said Seyam, who commanded Hamas's Executive Force, a militia that tortured and murdered Palestinian supporters of Fatah during Hamas's violent takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2006.

Mr Corbyn has received at least two further free trips, worth £2,450, from the Palestinian Return Centre and its subsidiary the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza, based at the PRC office in Crown House, Wembley. The PRC takes a strongly pro-Hamas position and has regularly hosted Hamas leaders, including Mr Haniyeh, at its annual conferences. At least one senior PRC leader in Europe has recruited individuals to Hamas. The PRC’s current head of media in the UK, Sameh Habeeb, founded and edited a virulently anti-Semitic website, Palestine Telegraph, which published a video by the former head of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke and numerous conspiracy theories about Jewish control of the world.

Next month, Mr Corbyn is due to speak at a conference organised by Middle East Monitor (MEMO), another group with strong sympathies for Hamas. MEMO’s director, Daud Abdullah, is a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood-linked British Muslim Initiative, set up and run by the Brotherhood activist Anas al-Tikriti and two senior figures in Hamas. MEMO’s’senior edito’, Ibrahim Hewitt, an extremist who believes that adulterers should be stoned to death, is chairman of Interpal, the Hamas-linked charity. MEMO has organised several meetings featuring Hamas leaders and terrorist sympathisers; its website also repeatedly peddles conspiracy theories about Jews in articles such as “How money from Israeli donors controls Westminster”.
 
Mr Corbyn and MEMO co-sponsored the visit to Britain and to Parliament of an Israel-based anti-Semitic extremist, Sheikh Raed Saleh, found by a British court to have spread the ‘blood libe’ against Jews, the claim that they use the blood of gentile children to make their bread. Mr Saleh, who also describes Jews as ’monkeys’ and ’bacteria’,  claims that 9/11 was a Jewish plot and that the Jews employed at the World Trade Center were warned not to come into work that day.

But he was strongly defended by Mr Corbyn, who congratulated him on defeating Government moves to exclude him from Britain, called him “a very honoured citizen who represents his people extremely well” and said he “looked forward to giving you tea on the [House of Commons] terrace.”

Mr Corbyn has met the leadership of Hamas, including Mr Haniyeh, several times, but they are not the only terror group he has had dealings with. He has also praised, and spoken on platforms with, representatives of the Iranian-backed Hezbollah, and once shared a platform with the Black September hijacker, Leila Khaled. In November 2012, Mr Corbyn hosted a meeting in Parliament with Mousa Abu Maria, a member of the banned terrorist group Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

The same year, Mr Corbyn also agreed to speak alongside two of Britain’s leading domestic bigots, Abdurraheem Green and Wasim Kempson, at a conference held at Arsenal FC’s Emirates stadium. The club barred Mr Green from its premises at the last minute after learning that he advocates a husband’s right to beat his wife. Green has also stated that “whoever claims that the Jew and the Christian are our brethren in faith has without doubt made a statement of clear disbelief” and quotes a saying of the Prophet that “if you find a Jew or Christian walking down the street, push them to the side.”

Sorry to confuse you with the facts Born2Run.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #303 on: August 04, 2015, 04:40:00 pm »
Your 'facts' are copied ad verbum from a Telegraph article by a chap called Andrew Gilligan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11749043/Andrew-Gilligan-Jeremy-Corbyn-friend-to-Hamas-Iran-and-extremists.html

I apologise if I don't take what this man writes necessarily as 'fact'

More about him here - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/11/andrew-gilligan-islamism-press

"So, let's get this straight. Gilligan is a journalist who makes lots of money from "outing" as many British Muslims as he can as "Islamists" or "extremists", often on deeply dubious grounds, and with the aid of selective quotation, yet at the same time also makes lots and lots of money working for a foreign country that is explicitly, openly and proudly Islamist and based on the rule of the clerics and a version of sharia law."

A man with something of a dubious background

https://coolnessofhind.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/andrew-gilligans-prevent-infused-anti-muslim-journalism/

Andrew Gilligan, who fanned the flames of hate against the Muslim community through the usual concoction of lies, spin and exaggeration during the Trojan Hoax incursion, has recently continued the establishment (and neoconservative) trend of down-playing anti-Muslim attacks, to the positive reporting of the Jewish community. He writes, for instance, that there are four times more hate crimes against Jews than Muslims.  Of course, this ignores the fact that the anti-Semitism monitoring body, Community Security Trust, has been around for several years.  There is also an issue of under-reporting of anti-Muslim attacks, as encapsulated in the following quote about a woman and anti-Muslim incidents:

“She says out of 30 different hate crime incidents, she has only ever reported two, and admits wearing a hijab has made her a target.”

In his disturbing article, which can be interpreted as propaganda to start a race war, he impliedly pits Muslims against Jews, with Muslims being insinuated through spin and unsubstantiated conclusions, as the cause of attack against the Jews.  The mechanism, like John Ware’s documentary, is neocon textbook: smear by association and draw grand conclusions.

Offline Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #304 on: August 04, 2015, 05:23:32 pm »
If you're going to quote an article verbatim, B2R, at least acknowledge the author.  I can't find out who the author is, but you might know them. If we can't attribute an article's provenance, then we might have to delete it, as a lot of what it says could be considered libellous.

The other issue is whether you can prove the facts as stated in Bosun's article are untrue. You might not like them, but that's not the point.  If they're not true, then they have to be deleted.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Bosun

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Re: National politics
« Reply #305 on: August 04, 2015, 05:37:24 pm »
Born2Run, whatever your thoughts or views are on various journalists, you have singularly failed to either deny or refute any of the facts about Jeremy Corby that have been widely reported in the media and open press.
 
‘Shooting the messenger’ does not alter the message; obviously you have a deeply entrenched position that will not be altered by facts and the truth, which, of course, is your right. 

John Heywood said in 1546 ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see’. But, I suppose you will argue about that as well.

Best wishes with your juggling shop.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #306 on: August 04, 2015, 06:14:48 pm »
I know of Gilligan only through the Iraq affair and the subsequent Hutton enquiry. I know he resigned from the Beeb and was also awarded Journalist of the Year in 2008, so I imagine he's moderately competent, if not to everyone's taste. 
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #307 on: August 05, 2015, 12:08:05 pm »
If you're going to quote an article verbatim, B2R, at least acknowledge the author.  I can't find out who the author is, but you might know them. If we can't attribute an article's provenance, then we might have to delete it, as a lot of what it says could be considered libellous.

The other issue is whether you can prove the facts as stated in Bosun's article are untrue. You might not like them, but that's not the point.  If they're not true, then they have to be deleted.

Ian, unlike Bosun I have hyperlinked every quote which I have used so don't see the problem there.  ???
I also hyperlinked the article Bosun used himself which he didn't!
Shouldn't you be telling him off rather than me?
 $thanx$

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #308 on: August 05, 2015, 12:13:33 pm »
Born2Run, whatever your thoughts or views are on various journalists, you have singularly failed to either deny or refute any of the facts about Jeremy Corby that have been widely reported in the media and open press.
 
‘Shooting the messenger’ does not alter the message; obviously you have a deeply entrenched position that will not be altered by facts and the truth, which, of course, is your right. 

John Heywood said in 1546 ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see’. But, I suppose you will argue about that as well.

Best wishes with your juggling shop.

Why don't you join us at the St Georges on Monday and put these questions to him yourself?
I would love to see someone challenge him rather than sit in a room with a bunch of nodding Jefferys  ££$

By the way, apart from me is anyone else here eligible to vote in the Labour leadership contest?
You don't have to tell me, I just find it interesting to know.

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: National politics
« Reply #309 on: August 05, 2015, 01:36:00 pm »
I'm certainly not eligible to vote, if I could though I would vote for David Milliband as he did such a wonderful job of keeping Labour out in April $good$
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #310 on: August 05, 2015, 01:53:32 pm »
I'm certainly not eligible to vote, if I could though I would vote for David Milliband as he did such a wonderful job of keeping Labour out in April $good$

Do you mean Ed?

David would have done a better job. $good$

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: National politics
« Reply #311 on: August 05, 2015, 02:11:42 pm »
Oops! Yes Ed!  :D
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline Bosun

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Re: National politics
« Reply #312 on: August 05, 2015, 04:24:29 pm »
Born2Run, whatever your thoughts or views are on various journalists, you have singularly failed to either deny or refute any of the facts about Jeremy Corby that have been widely reported in the media and open press.
 
‘Shooting the messenger’ does not alter the message; obviously you have a deeply entrenched position that will not be altered by facts and the truth, which, of course, is your right. 

John Heywood said in 1546 ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see’. But, I suppose you will argue about that as well.

Best wishes with your juggling shop.

Why don't you join us at the St Georges on Monday and put these questions to him yourself?
I would love to see someone challenge him rather than sit in a room with a bunch of nodding Jefferys  ££$

By the way, apart from me is anyone else here eligible to vote in the Labour leadership contest?
You don't have to tell me, I just find it interesting to know.

Thank you for your kind invitation, sadly I have to decline as I’m out of the country until later next week. I do have to add that I would not attend in any event for two reasons; the second being that I’m not eligible to vote in the Labour leadership election and I am certainly not deceitful enough to join Labour simply to vote to ensure the election of a candidate to further the interests of my party (possibly because I do not belong to, or actively support any particular political party) although the current surge in the Labour Party membership suggests that some people are.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #313 on: August 05, 2015, 04:33:58 pm »
Do you think some Tories or people from other parties are joining the Labour party in order to vote in somebody bound to lose?

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: National politics
« Reply #314 on: August 05, 2015, 05:31:16 pm »
Sounds like  a plan!   $good$
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas