Author Topic: CCBC costs and cutting  (Read 42106 times)

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Fester

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2010, 07:20:29 PM »
In addition,

5, Let people know its there...its a little hidden, maybe some signs from North Parade, right round past The Grand.
6, Make parking easier, its a nightmare round there on busy days.

...and 7, Create a famous 'signature' product.  One wich people will tell all their friends about, and look forward to coming back to Llandudno for time and time again!   

Fester...
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ormegolf

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2010, 09:07:54 PM »
Dave, There is only one thing I think you overlook. You state it is always busy when you go there in the summer months. Agreed. Proviso---on nice sunny days when you probably visit. When its sheeting it down with rain it wont take a penny. Same applies in every tourist business anywhere in the country. Unfortunately the overheads, wages, rent, rates the lot, they come rain or shine. Dont think I am critising your judgement. Virtually everybody makes the same mistake. How many times have I heard it said "Its always heaving when I see it." But I know they only see it at the good times  Mike

DaveR

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2010, 09:31:23 AM »
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Dave, There is only one thing I think you overlook. You state it is always busy when you go there in the summer months. Agreed. Proviso---on nice sunny days when you probably visit. When its sheeting it down with rain it wont take a penny. Same applies in every tourist business anywhere in the country. Unfortunately the overheads, wages, rent, rates the lot, they come rain or shine. Dont think I am critising your judgement. Virtually everybody makes the same mistake. How many times have I heard it said "Its always heaving when I see it." But I know they only see it at the good times  Mike
I take your point, Mike, I'm struggling to think of days this Summer when I would have wanted to walk though Happy Valley but didn't because it was raining. I have been there on many overcast days and it's certainly quieter but still doing a fair bit of trade. The cafe is on one of the main routes up the Orme (and of course to the ski slope), so there are always people about.

Ian

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2010, 09:32:14 AM »
Quote
When its sheeting it down with rain it wont take a penny.

But that's a comparatively rare occurrence at Happy Valley.  The Orme has one of the lowest rainfall figures in the UK.

You can run a cafe in the remotest of locations in Llandudno and make a profit, but you need to make sure it's warm for the cold days and  - as Dave says - make sure there are plenty of tables.  Mostly, however, it's down to the folk who serve you.  They need to make you feel as though you matter.  
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DaveR

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2010, 09:33:50 AM »
Unbelievable - news that Colwyn Bay & Llandudno Police Stations are proposed for closure:

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"FEARS that Colwyn Bay and Llandudno police stations could close in a shake-up of policing in North Wales are growing.

North Wales Police Authority is currently carrying out a consultation into proposals to improve efficiency and make cash savings, and they are proposing a number of “response hubs” and a reduction in the number of existing police districts.

One of the response hubs, which it is claimed would enable officers to be deployed to locations within 30 minutes, would be at Colwyn Bay HQ.
And there is also a suggestion the existing central police district which covers the town and parts of Denbighshire could be merged with West Conwy to create one enlarged district which would include both the Bay and Llandudno."

Merddin Emrys

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2010, 10:01:48 AM »
If the Police want to save money, just get rid of those awful speed tax camera vans  :rage:
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MrFalafel

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2010, 10:25:59 AM »
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Quote
When its sheeting it down with rain it wont take a penny.

But that's a comparatively rare occurrence at Happy Valley.  The Orme has one of the lowest rainfall figures in the UK.

You can run a cafe in the remotest of locations in Llandudno and make a profit, but you need to make sure it's warm for the cold days and  - as Dave says - make sure there are plenty of tables.  Mostly, however, it's down to the folk who serve you.  They need to make you feel as though you matter.  

Lots of people walking past does not automatically add up to high sales. I knew the people who ran Happy Valley Cafe a few years ago and their problem was the customers they had would buy a cup of tea and thats it. Or a plate of chips and nothing else. Or a couple of cold drinks while sitting at a table for an hour. Food sales where they made the most money were rare. Tourists were bringing picnics or eating elsewhere and just stopping by the Cafe for an ice cream. There were almost no regulars from town frequenting the place. In fact, in the winter months the manager would be asked to close up the cafe for 3 months and she'd go 'sign on' during that time then open the cafe back up in the spring. This is how the cafe worked for years and years. And this was during the 'good years' when the economy was doing very well. The main reason it remained open was the Parisella's was doing well elsewhere and used the cafe as a place for his less productive offspring to attempt to run without being 'hands on'. As the ice cream magnates fortunes waned elsewhere in the county he couldn't keep the place just ticking over.



Ian

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 10:51:42 AM »
Actually, it's on teas and coffees where you make the most, so that doesn't ring true to me. Thing is, it doesn't matter if they sit around for a while;  that's the nature of cafes, and it's always going to happen. But what did strike a warning note was your comment that "the manager would be asked to close up the cafe for 3 months"  Running a tiny cafe like that you can't really afford to have a manager. It has to be owner-driven, and that's what makes the difference. An engaging owner, who's hands-on and makes the folk feel important and valued will soon have repeat business and locals tripping up there, just for the pleasure of chatting. Then you eliminate the problem of "Tourists  bringing picnics or eating elsewhere and just stopping by the Cafe for an ice cream. "

In fact, you've told us why it didn't work when you said "Parisella's was doing well elsewhere and used the cafe as a place for his less productive offspring to attempt to run".  That's it in a nutshell.

I know a few folk who could make that place work - and work well.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:53:13 AM by Ian »
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

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MrFalafel

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 11:27:19 AM »
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Actually, it's on teas and coffees where you make the most, so that doesn't ring true to me. Thing is, it doesn't matter if they sit around for a while;  that's the nature of cafes, and it's always going to happen. But what did strike a warning note was your comment that "the manager would be asked to close up the cafe for 3 months"  Running a tiny cafe like that you can't really afford to have a manager. It has to be owner-driven, and that's what makes the difference. An engaging owner, who's hands-on and makes the folk feel important and valued will soon have repeat business and locals tripping up there, just for the pleasure of chatting. Then you eliminate the problem of "Tourists  bringing picnics or eating elsewhere and just stopping by the Cafe for an ice cream. "

In fact, you've told us why it didn't work when you said "Parisella's was doing well elsewhere and used the cafe as a place for his less productive offspring to attempt to run".  That's it in a nutshell.

I know a few folk who could make that place work - and work well.
It's actually repeat trade where you make the margins. 99% of the customers at Happy Valley were tourists who just stumbled upon the place so it was really luck of the draw.  The location isn't really conducive for locals wandering over a couple of times a week like they do in town.

The earlier suggestion about simplifying the menu was tried. The reduced stock helped keep the overheads down a bit but the reality of the daily costs of keeping the place open, staffed adequately, lit up and stocked up just didn't match up the daily cash intake.

I would be amazed to see somone make that cafe work in the current trading conditions when so many other food retailers are struggling in better locations with better reputations.

Blongb

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2010, 05:39:22 PM »
The first thing they would have to do is change all the seats. In a Cafe where through-put is needed it's no good having comfortable chairs, where your customers sit for an hour taking in the view. You have to have what’s called in the trade 10 minute chairs. They have two of the back support rods set a little too far forward and although very comfortable at first, as you lean back they dig into your kidneys and become progressively more uncomfortable. I knew a Carpenter who used to make them for the Bakers Oven retail chain.
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Yorkie

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2010, 07:38:08 PM »
Sounds like a Health and Safety matter to me!    Big compensation claims!   _))*   _))*

Blongb

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2011, 12:02:57 PM »
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In addition,

6, Make parking easier, its a nightmare round there on busy days.

When the Council applied for and got the “cursed” Lottery grant to restore Happy Valley Gardens to its Victorian splendour, one of the conditions was to remove all the Parking from behind the Café because in Victorian times they didn’t have Car Parks.

Before they got the grant, we were in discussions with the Council to rent some of the proposed 54 place car parking spaces for our guests use.

Another thing the “cursed” Lottery people were insisting on was the removal of most of the mature trees from the Gardens as again in Victorian times they didn’t have any.

Have any of you noticed how the Valley has changed from a lovely secluded garden of old, into open Parkland of today. It makes you want to weep.
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

Yorkie

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2011, 01:15:05 PM »
And there's no where to tie up your horses either!     >?>??

Trojan

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2011, 06:08:43 PM »
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And there's no where to tie up your horses either!     >?>??

You could always tie it to Victoria's bust.

Nemesis

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Re: CCBC Spending Cutbacks
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2011, 01:23:20 PM »
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In addition,

6, Make parking easier, its a nightmare round there on busy days.

When the Council applied for and got the “cursed” Lottery grant to restore Happy Valley Gardens to its Victorian splendour, one of the conditions was to remove all the Parking from behind the Café because in Victorian times they didn’t have Car Parks.

Before they got the grant, we were in discussions with the Council to rent some of the proposed 54 place car parking spaces for our guests use.

Another thing the “cursed” Lottery people were insisting on was the removal of most of the mature trees from the Gardens as again in Victorian times they didn’t have any.

Have any of you noticed how the Valley has changed from a lovely secluded garden of old, into open Parkland of today. It makes you want to weep.


Just been up there this a.m. A sweeper wouldn't go amiss.
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.