Author Topic: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes  (Read 38886 times)

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Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2014, 09:01:52 am »
Karen, as you know I don't subscribe to Ancestry etc but I was trying things out on the computer last night and found two things of interest.  Again I have no proof whatsoever that they are your relatives but as Robert Hughes address of West Derby was on the Wedding Banns I thought either of these were promising.
Robert Hughes born 1834  died 1912     West Derby
Robert Hughes born 1835  died  1920    West Derby

Perhaps that explains why I can't find him in the local burial or street indexes.

Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2014, 04:24:58 pm »
Hi everyone,
wow you all have been busy as bees whilst i've been getting stented in the local hozzy!!

and bingo Hugo  you found it,  for sure,  so i still have to get around to ordering the marriage cert. will try and get that done this coming week   :D

ok so i will go re read and hunt up those census re Robert and see what comes though now.
one of his daughters was born in west derby Liverpool,  and  so
 i would imagine he knew that area. quite well.   i will get onto that tomorrow.

and the picture of the house is wonderful!!!
and thanks for the grave inscription and photo's,   yes he doesnt seem to have had much luck there.  and i believe he is buried with his second wife myanwe  in ???  great orme cemetary  is there another cemetary there on the Orme???  in about 1940  myfanwe was buried with him in the 1990s  sometime.

and for me its interesting she died 16th nov   i was born that date; different year howeer  ;D

ok im off to assimilate and lie flat for a bit, and catch up with you tomorrow hopefully.
happy easter by the way.   




Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2014, 11:38:10 am »


and the picture of the house is wonderful!!!
and thanks for the grave inscription and photo's,   yes he doesnt seem to have had much luck there.  and i believe he is buried with his second wife myanwe  in ???  great orme cemetary  is there another cemetary there on the Orme???  in about 1940  myfanwe was buried with him in the 1990s  sometime.



That probably explains why John Owen's name wasn't on the grave.    There is only one cemetery on the Great Orme and that is St Tudno's, although that does have two parts to it.  The graves I have already found are in the old section by the Church and are within the walls of that Cemetery.  The newer part is outside the walls and on higher ground.
When I'm next at the Archives I'll have a look for Myfanwy's name in the Burial Index.

Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2014, 02:34:31 pm »
ok so got the from ready to send to the conwy registrar to get the certificate (thanks to uk bmd  being down all over the easter weekend  when i had access to a printer sods law!!)

Hugo from the photo's of the owens group of graves you put up
Quote
Margaret and John Owen ( Grave G018)
Anyway I drove up to St Tudno's Church and at Grave G018 I took the photos of the grave.  The first two are of the grave itself and the next is of the tomb next to it and then of three graves.    Those three graves are very impressive and are all  Owens so they could all be related somehow.

i believe the far one is of thomas owens and his wife elizabeth owens (margarets brother in Law brother of John ).  because his descnedant sent me a photo of that grave and looking at the two photos looks like its same grave.

as or the anne married to a griffith at this time i dont have names for them  but its very very likely they are connected.  as you mentioned.

it would appear that Thomas lived at a place called Milton Lodge, according to cesnus recs which was next door to Avallon in abbey road, where John lived.  and that they were built by the owens brothers.

 i was also sent a photo of John owens headstone (maybe its in the second part of St tudnos grave yard?)




Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2014, 02:39:21 pm »
oh just out of interesting synchronicity,
just had a friend pop round for a coffee and chatting about st tudnos graves and my family line stuff. (filling out the form for the registrar)  and he said,  bet they are buried next to my grandfather,  who is buried on the orme in Llandudno   an Albert Ellis -Jones,  (he took his wifes surname, she apparently  was from Llandudno)

small world really.  ;D

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2014, 08:23:22 pm »
Well Karen, you beat me to it getting the photo of John Owen's grave.   I was at the Archives today and found the grave which is in the newer part of the Cemetery at Plot Y   No 74. ( see Burials Record)
I didn't go up the Great Orme due to lack of time but as you have the photo there is no need for me to go up there now.   I did however go  and look at Avallon in Abbey Road Llandudno and took this photo for you.    Avallon is now No 26 and is the semi detached property on the right of the photo.  If my notes are correct Milton Lodge is next door to it on the right just out of sight.
Thomas Owen was the other grave in my previous photo and this is a closer photo that I took at the time.

John Owen died on the morning of Thursday the 8th Feb 1940 and the notice of his death and also his photo appeared on the front page of the Llandudno Advertiser on Saturday 10th Feb 1940.   An obituary notice then appeared on the front page of the Llandudno Advertiser on the 17th Feb 1940.      Both notices contain a lot of information so I have ordered copies of the extracts from both papers and these will be e-mailed to me by the Archive people and I will post them on here as soon as they are received.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2014, 03:59:29 pm »
Alderman John Owen            As the wording is difficult to read I've sent the original sized photos on by a PM

Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2014, 01:36:23 pm »
Thanks Hugo,
a few names to play with there !!   a couple of hughes are mentione an ET Hughezs and a William Hughes in the relatives mourning.   and theres a policeman from caernarvon that i mentioned earlier in the thread perhaps he is the same one my mum said.  anyway i shall mull over those and see what drifts up.

so re the other grave of ann and griffith Owen
in the 1841  census , trying to find edward owen and margaret nee ellis and baby ann that year
i find them possibly them living at pen yr ogof but with an ann aged 15yr  and a griffith aged 25.  that could be them i guess.
and on the same page is tow other groups of owens,  living at ty coch.
a thomas owens  with a babe ann of the right age.  there is also another entry for an edward and elizabeth also living at ty coch. as just a couple.  i guess they coumld all be the same family and that the child ann stayed at relatives, that they perhaps shared houses and families of living in that small area .  anyways thats speculations as its the only edward and margaret owen the show on the orme and i know on their marriage certificate of 1839  the address of edward is tan y ogof road.  so sounds like they are the ocrrect one on the census , and either the recorder has done some mixing up.  or ......  anyway  there is an ann and griffith as a couple  and i would imagine its them in them there graves next to margaret owens and thomas owens in st tudnos.

Entry 43  living at ty coch 
thomas owen 20 smith
mary owen 25
thomas 1
ann 2mnths

entry 39 pen yr ogof
Edward Owen  20
Margaret Owen 20
Anne Owen 15
Griffith Owen 25

entry 44 ty coch
Edward Owen 25
Elizabeth Owen 20







Offline Cambrian

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2014, 04:22:39 pm »
If it helps, Edward Williams was Chief Constable of Caernarvonshire from 1923 to 1939 when he retired.  He was a native of Bethesda and served with that force from 1895 except for two years in the "Met".

Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2014, 05:01:58 pm »
thanks cambrian, all info helps as one goes along.  $good$

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2014, 11:16:47 am »
Karen,  just to put you in the picture,  Llandudno in the 1840's was a small village mainly located on the lower slopes of the Great Orme and around the area where the Kings Head pub is.  The occupations at the time were mainly Copper Miners and farming and the population was just over 1000.
Last night I was reading Chris Draper's book  "Llandudno before the hotels" and it covers the period up to about 1850.  In the book at pg 172 is a bit about people living there at that time and recorded by Thomas Rowlands.  I'll copy that article for you:-

" On the lower side right hand side of the road (Plas Road) was the Ty Coch farmhouse where Edward Owen and his sister lived.    A little further on along the same street was his shop, the only Butcher's shop in the place,  a small room of about 10 square feet.... Two or three hungry men could have consumed the contents of the shop at one sitting... Mr Edward Owen used to open this shop occasionally, once or twice a week for a few hours, but Saturday the shop was opened all day to sell the remnants of what he could not dispose of at Conwy Market the previous Friday"

Another section at pg `179  refers to a William Owen ( father of Edward Owen)  of Penymynydd Isaf ( known locally as Pink Farm)  and added that Ty Coch's farming activities were curtailed by the expansion of mining and although Edward Owen nominally occupied 12 acres the remaining agricultural land was remote from the house, with two fields on the Morfa and two at the top of Old Road.  Wisely Edward diversified into Butchery beginning with the small shop previously described.

So you know now that Edward lived in a farm house,  Pen Yr Ogof  ( Top of the Cave)  I've not heard of but must be somewhere near the farm and there is a street called Ty Coch Road that has some cottages on.    As regards Pink Farm where William Owen lived, at one time it was also a cafe as well as a farm and you can still make out the large  sign on the roof of the building.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2014, 11:35:01 am »
As the town developed, so did Edward Owen's business and here is a photo taken about 1890 of his business in the main street of Llandudno.   

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2014, 03:32:36 pm »
Karen,  I've just found another snippet of info for you from Chris Draper's book and it concerns Griffith Owens.   
On pg 198 of the book it shows the Llandudno Morfa of C1850 and the inhabitants living there.      The Morfa area was part of what is now the Promenade and Mostyn Street and people squatted there under the old Welsh Custom of Tai Unnos.
Lord Mostyn legally stole the land from the squatters and subsequently rehoused them mainly in Madoc Street.

Anyway back to Griffith Owens and this is how it appears in the book.
18 MORFA
Griffith Owens     38     miner              Llandudno
Ann         "           27     wife                Llangystennin
Elinor       "            6     daughter        Llandudno
Margaret   "           4         "                       "
Jane          "           2         "                       "
Owen        "           1        son                    "

Griffith Owens " a quiet Christian"  (Rowlands)   moved to the Morfa from Pen Yr Ogof where he had been a close neighbour of Thomas Kendrick around 1842.    Baby Elinor was born here and baptised at St George's Church on 8th January 1844.   The following year Margaret was Baptised on 21st December but several of the couples children, Jane, Owen and Ann died in childhood.      Griffith Owens was one of the last of the working Llandudno Copper Miners.

Just a thought but no proof that it's correct,  Thomas Kendrick lived in Tan Yr Ogof Terrace which is about 50 yards away from Ty Coch Farm but perhaps Tan Yr Ogof and Pen Yr Ogof  are either the same place or very near by.  If you look at the 1841 Census again you might be able to tell.
One thing though about the 1841 Census is that the ages of adults are not always correct as in that Census they rounded down the age to the nearest 5 years.  Example anyone aged 24 would have their age shown as 20.     ???      Don't ask me why.   

Offline Hugo

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2014, 06:39:45 pm »
At pg 170 of the same book I found a bit concerning Thomas Owen the Blacksmith when he lived in a slightly elevated terrace of cottages called Queen Street.   These cottages were owned by George Brookes who was the Manager of the Ty Gwyn Copper Mine.    Thomas lived in the end cottage on the right and by coincidence my own G G Grandfather lived in one of the cottages according to the 1861 Census.
In the book this has been written:-
" In the fourth and last house lived Thomas Owen, the Blacksmith and his wife Mary, another of George Brookes' daughters.  Thomas Owen was the Blacksmith of the extensive Ty Gwyn Mine.  A quiet and unassuming man"

Further on in the page is written " in the same Street is Tai'nyfron and in one of the houses lives William Owen, (Gogarth)  and his wife"
It does not mention his wife's name but as Gogarth is the Welsh name for the Great Orme then it is possible that this is the William from the Pink Farm on the Great Orme, after all he was only a tenant farmer there

The photo is of Queen Street which is now incorporated into Cwlach Street

Offline karenjadejoy

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Re: Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2014, 03:02:58 am »
think i shall have to order a copy of that book to get an even better pic of llandudno. 

so from your info from that, and my going though all the pages of the census 1841  for the upper township of llandudno enumeration district 3 !! (yes it seems everyone was a copper miner).

and i find tan yr ogof   peny yr ogof  ty coch all close entries to each other

kings head is entry no3  on the 1841 census of the uppertownship  (another william owen and family being the publican at that time)

 tan yr ogof - entries 33-35

 entry 33 a williams family, 34 jones family  and entry 35 Hughes family
entry 36 tan yr allt   robinson and jones
Pen yr ogof entries 37-39
entry 37  Kendrick family  (mentioned )
entry 38 jones family
entry 39 owens
as mentioned edward copper miner age 20  and margaret(nee ellis) age 20, and maybetheir child ann was not actually born as yet  and her birth wasnt 1840 but after this census sometime.  And the ageing thing would make them both the right age. And they lived with griffith owen whom was older than they were  25yr  according to the census which means anything up to 30 !!  and his wife ann 15 but could have been anything up to 20  and they are the ones you mention. Griffith Owens " a quiet Christian"  (Rowlands)   moved to the Morfa from Pen Yr Ogof where he had been a close neighbour of Thomas Kendrick around 1842.
Entry 40 is seowns or leowns   roberts  agricultural labourere  and lowe 
entry 41 is a shop  pritchard: and this could be what became the butchers  possibly

entries 42  43, 44 are  ty coch
42   jones family
43 thomas owen  and mary and family married owner of ty gwyn mines daughter mary brookes
44 edward owen and elizabeth  the brother and sister that became the butcher : father william owen of pink farm - penymynedd isaf

(if pen yr ogof is over the cave then i guess tan yr ogof is under the cave ????) :-[ i read the thread on the caves interezsting stuff.

thus from my previous post of the entries.

Entry 43  living at ty coch 
thomas owen 20 smith (married owner of ty gwyn mines daughter mary brookes )
mary owen 25
thomas 1
ann 2mnths

entry 39 pen yr ogof
Edward Owen  20 copper miner ( my lot)
Margaret Owen 20
Anne Owen 15
Griffith Owen 25 moved to the morfa with wife ann from tan yr ogof terrace which was by ty coch farm
   50yds or so could these be brothers ? orotherwise related, is to be discovered

entry 44 ty coch
Edward Owen 25 farmed ty coch became a butcher had shop down the road (on census there is a shop entry 41 )  father william owen of pink farm - penymynedd isaf
Elizabeth Owen 20

ok now i have that sorted in my head, 

 the father of my edward was lewis Owen from Gyffin (wherever that is)  whom married ellinor morris march 1807 in llandudno, no idea if there are siblings as yet, and lewis's father was a william owen married to an elizabeth edwards married feb 1760 Llandudno. again no idea if there are any sibs, but i still have to hunt these up for confirmations. and or connections to any of the other Owens above.

my form for the marriage certificate of robert hughes and ann owens has been posted now.  so hopefully your lovely folks at the archives there in Lloyd street, will be receiving it soon.  and maybe we will get the hughes line going back a generation.   and still havnt foind anything on the their children.  ah well  c'est la vie. it will happen at some point,
goodnight for now.