Daviies Family

[DownUnder]

I did some further digging and found a record for the baptism of Edward Davies on 23 Sep 1810 baptised in Eglwys Bach.  True to form, the entry states that he is the "naughty boy son of David Davies and Elinor Hughes". I could not find any subsequent record of a marriage between these two.

What would the likely scenario have been at that stage - ie. would Edward have ultimately lived with his mother of father?

[DownUnder]

True to form, the entry states that he is the "naughty boy son of David Davies and Elinor Hughes".

I note the translation into civilized language of my previous message.  Naughty Boy was substituted for B_@_st_@_rd.

Regards

[Hugo]

You've been busy Hugh and unearthed a skeleton in the cupboard too.      In the Baptism record Edward and Margaret were living in Tyddyn Iolyn which must have been in the township of Cefn Y Coed. 
It's more than likely that Edward lived with his mother but it's not definite as we know from William who lived with his Grandparents

[Hugo]

I went to the Archives today but didn't find out anything new but I did go into the Census records for 1871 using Margaret Wynne as an example to get me into the system.    Margaret who lived in Sea View Terrace did live in the township of Llan so I navigated my way through every Elizabeth who lived in Llan in the 1871 Census but couldn't find Elizabeth Davies.
I don't know what else we can do as Elizabeth and William are just proving difficult to find in the 1891 Census as I had a go at that too.

[DownUnder]

I have come across another mystery. The 1871 Census shows Edward and Margaret as having a son Edward Davies aged 7 (b1864) which matches the corresponding image - ie not an error in transcription.  However, the 1881 Census shows a Grandson Edward Jones 17 (b.1864), again not an error in transcription. Both Edward records show the same birth town details. Where's Sherlock Holmes when you need him?

Any thoughts on this?  I will dig a little deeper to see if they are one in the same person or two different people.

[Cambrian]

It was quite common in those days for illegitimate children to be brought up as a younger sibling by the grandparents.  Besides for the sake of propriety, it enabled the young mother to eventually marry unencumbered.  I do know of one instance locally where a child is described as the "niece" of the grandparents with whom she is buried. This practice carried on well into the first part of the 20th century.

I wonder if, in this case, Edward junior was illegitimate and by the time he was 17 his actual origin no longer mattered as his mother was by then married hence his description accurately given in 1881.  I may of course be wrong.....!

[DownUnder]

It was quite common in those days for illegitimate children to be brought up as a younger sibling by the grandparents. 

Thanks Cambrian. You have described how the grandparents may have 'displayed' these children as their own children to the rest of the world, but how would this have been handled in respect of baptisms and registration of births etc. This may assist me in chasing down further information.

[DownUnder]

I have had a Eureka moment (may be an Australian saying), but have found the one piece of the jigsaw that joins the Elizabeth Davies giving birth to the illegitimate William Davies to the Edward and Margaret Davies that had a grandson named William Davies staying with them in 1881.  Previously, it was ASSUMED that these two events were linked.

A search of the birth/baptism records revealed an entry when I used Eglwys Rhos as the location.  It returned a Baptism entry listing a William Davies having a mother 'Elizth'.  Looking at the image of this record reveal that it lists the birth as Illegitimate and most importantly the Abode as "LG Bricks" which would seem to match with 1871 Census address of "Brickfield" for Edward and Margaret Davies.

Thank you, thank you, all for helping me to arrive at this point.

[DownUnder]

Hugo,  You posted a message which said, in part -

"I was at the Conwy Archives today and looked at the Burial Indexes for St Hilary's Church at Llanrhos ( Eglwysrhos)  and also the two Cemeteries in Eglwysbach but I couldn't see any grave for William's Grandparents Edward and Margaret Davies.
While I was looking through the graves in the Llanrhos Burial Index I came across this interesting but sad inscription and thought that I would share it with you.    The inscription was in Welsh and I'll translate it for you:-
In memory of Mary
daughter of Edwart and Marged Davies of Marl Bach
Born 1st January 1853
Died September 20th 1857
The names on the inscription are Welsh but that is how they appeared.

The passing of one so young is extremely sad, but finding that in 1860 Edward and Margaret gave birth to another daughter which they named Mary after their deceased child and then finding that this child also died very young in 1865. I wonder whether there is another gravestone dedicated to the second Mary?

[Hugo]

I have had a Eureka moment (may be an Australian saying), but have found the one piece of the jigsaw that joins the Elizabeth Davies giving birth to the illegitimate William Davies to the Edward and Margaret Davies that had a grandson named William Davies staying with them in 1881.  Previously, it was ASSUMED that these two events were linked.

A search of the birth/baptism records revealed an entry when I used Eglwys Rhos as the location.  It returned a Baptism entry listing a William Davies having a mother 'Elizth'.  Looking at the image of this record reveal that it lists the birth as Illegitimate and most importantly the Abode as "LG Bricks" which would seem to match with 1871 Census address of "Brickfield" for Edward and Margaret Davies.

Thank you, thank you, all for helping me to arrive at this point.

It looks like you have finally cracked it Hugh and the abode "LG Bricks"   is  "Lower  G  Brickfields"     the home of William's Granddad Edward Davies.        I've forgotten what the G meant but you have the right person and address so well done.       

I'll have another look at the Burial Index for St Hilary's in Llanrhos next time I go to the Archives.       St Hilary's is the parish Church for Eglwysrhos and is only a very short distance from Edward's house at Lower Brickfields.

[Hugo]

While I'm at the Archives looking at the Burial Index,  I'll also have a look at the Baptism Register there and try and find the entry for William.
It should be in the 1875 or 1876 pages but I'll look again.

Now that you've found the Llandudno links the next search will be to find where William went to after he left Alexandra Road.   Did your father ever say where they moved to or what type of quarry he worked in?
If he did in fact move to Penygroes then any info will be stored in the Gwynedd Archives at Caernarfon but if it was to Betws Y Coed then some of the info will be in our Archives here.
By the way, have you heard from Gwyndaf yet?

[Cambrian]

Hugo - re Piccadilly.  The pub in Caerwys is said to have been built by a chap who had a good bet on a horse of that name running at Holywell racecourse in the early 19th century. Possibly others placed bets with good returns or simply copied the name. The horse was owned by the Earl of Plymouth and named after the London location.

[Hugo]

Thanks Cambrian, that's an interesting bit of info.   I've passed the racecourse on my way to Babell from the A55 and I think the road to Babell runs through what was the old racecourse

[DownUnder]

I have managed to track down a number of Baptism records (transcript and original image) of some of the children of Edward and Margaret.  The 'Abode' details in these records are:

 1840 Tyddyn Iolyn
 1842 to 1845 Glan y borth
 1848 Llwyn Onn (See Attachment)

Is anything known about any of these places?

I am particularly interested in Tyddyn Iolyn as I have uncovered another treasure. It is the Baptism record for Margaret Davies b 1816. It shows her parents are Hugh Davies and Dorothy Jones living at Tyddyn Iolyn.  So, it would seem that for a short period of time after their marriage, they were living with Margaret's parents.
 
Back to the digging

[Cambrian]

Hugh

Interesting stuff.  I am a bit puzzled as the younger Margaret Davies (who married David Wynne) I have as having been born on 7.12.1847 at Hendafarn, Llandudno.  As the year and the location are different, I wonder if they are the same.  By another odd coincidence, there is a Llwyn Onn in Llandudno very close to Hendafarn.