Daviies Family

[DownUnder]

Hugo/Cambrian,

There has been considerable comment relating to the Davies clan working/running farms in the Llanwrst/Llandudno area. What sort of farming would this have been.  I would guess it would be sheep, but would be keen to have this confirmed.  I have been struggling with the "proper" recording of the information collected, particularly in the area of citation of sources. Finding how to cite Findmypast records is turning out to be more difficult than finding my relatives!

Hugo, I followed your excellent directions re finding Tyddyn Iola on Google maps. I went to the "Street" view and was able to capture a distant image of the buildings.  I noted on a previous post that a William and Mary Jones were listed as residents of Tyddyn Iola in the 1881 Census. Sadly, I found the attached newspaper article relating to this family.

[Hugo]

Hugh,  did you see the two buildings from an aerial photograph or just from the street?     The aerial one is best because you can see their location quite clearly and you also have an idea of the surrounding countryside.
That notice in the papef was sad to see.   The Denbigh asylum was a large institution where they kept people with very bad mental health issues.. It would have been hard for the family to cope then as they didn't have the help that they have nowadays.

Cambrian may have more idea of the farming that the various Davies' did but sheep would certainly be one of the types of farming but Marl Farm also had cattle and possibly crops too.
Where Marl Bach and Maes Gwyn are situated, I have been told that they grew potatoes there and because of it's southerly location they had some of the earliest potatoes in the area.

[Cambrian]

Farming in the lower Conwy Valley tends to be fairly mixed arable with both dairy and beef cattle and some sheep.

One source which Hugh does not seem to have covered are the Tithe Records from the 1840s.  These give the size of each holding and sometimes it is possible to have a guess at what the farm's main activity was.  The Tithe Schedules were done on an (Ecclesiastical) Parish basis.  From memory I think most of the originals are in the National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth but copies are held at the County Archives locally. The other source is the Enclosure Awards again for a similar period, copies are usually at the Archives.

I have had a look at a printed note I have of the Enclosure Awards for Eglwysrhos and Llangwstennin.  Unfortunately nothing matches exactly - there is a "Maes" near Marl Gate House and Morfa Cottage which was 3 roods and 1 perch in extent so quite a small holding.
Marl Bach is probably  included in "Marl demesne" which is over 247 acres.

The Tithe records list each field associated with a property and give the acreage and names.

[DownUnder]

Hugh,  did you see the two buildings from an aerial photograph or just from the street?     The aerial one is best because you can see their location quite clearly and you also have an idea of the surrounding countryside.
That notice in the papef was sad to see.   The Denbigh asylum was a large institution where they kept people with very bad mental health issues.. It would have been hard for the family to cope then as they didn't have the help that they have nowadays.

Cambrian may have more idea of the farming that the various Davies' did but sheep would certainly be one of the types of farming but Marl Farm also had cattle and possibly crops too.
Where Marl Bach and Maes Gwyn are situated, I have been told that they grew potatoes there and because of it's southerly location they had some of the earliest potatoes in the area.

Hugo,
I have capture both the aerial view as well as the street view. The street view is not great, but I'm happy to capture any and all information.

Cambrian,
Are the Tithe Records and/or Enclosure Awards available online as a searchable database?  Would love to delve into that area if available.

[Hugo]

I'll get close up photos of Tyddyn Iolyn for you as soon as I can, maybe in a week or so.

[Hugo]

Hugh,  just an after thought but you may already be aware of it.   Put " National Library of Wales " in Google and there is a lot of info available for you.
It also has Newspapers online covering 1804 - 1919 which you might find useful.     The ones that may be the most help for you at present are the Llandudno Advertiser and the North Wales Weekly News.    The Llandudno Advertiser covers Llandudno and the North Wales Weekly News covers a wide area of North Wales including Llandudno

[Cambrian]

Hugh - I am not sure about on line access.  Could I suggest you look at the National Library of Wales website and Conwy Archives one.

[Hugo]

Hugh,  I went back to Eglwysbach today to have a look at Tyddyn Iolyn.  It's on land belonging to Bodnant Estates and there is no direct  access to the old farm.   It's very rural and about 2 miles outside of the actual village of Eglwysbach and up a very steep 33% hill so I went to a farm called Tyn Y Bryn and spoke to a very nice lady who gave me permission to cross her land to see Tyddyn Iolyn.   She did also say that some builders had also asked her for permission to cross her land and they had done some work to the roof and propped up certain parts of the building.
After parking my car and changing into my walking boots I went across the fields and was surprised by the number of Rabbits that were running about.   There is in fact a very muddy track that leads you down to Tyddyn Iolyn and there are 3 detached buildings on the land. There are two large barns, one of which has a tin roof and the other is a slate roof.    The house itself is small and has a chimney on the gable end.   It was originally on two floors and there seems to be the ruins of some type of building at the other gable end.    I crawled in through the narrow open window and the ceiling was very low but may have been higher as there was a lot of dirt on the floor.   At one end there is a large inglenook fireplace with a huge wooden lintel and it had an old bread oven inside the fireplace. Large wooden beams supported the first floor level but there only appeared to be the one room downstairs.    I've taken a few photos and posted some of them here, the last one is when I was leaving the village and took it through the car windscreen

[Hugo]

Tyddyn Iolyn Eglwysbach

[Hugo]

Hugh, as I had not had a reply to my e-mail, I sent a reminder directly to the Secretary and had an immediate acknowledgement.  My request has been passed to the Rector and a reply will be issued shorty.
As soon as I receive it I'll let you know on here.

[DownUnder]

Hugo. Many thanks for the photos and you efforts re the graves of Edward and Margaret. I have been a bit flat of late so have not been as engaged as much as I'd like to. I have also begun to put together a "Location" document with maps and photos (the ones you have been kind enough to post). This will make it a lot easier for me to visualise the Davies movements. 

Cambrian. I had a look at both the National Library and Conway Archive sites but neither had on-line access to Tithe records. However, I intend to revisit both sites to see what information I can find.

[Hugo]

Although the smallest building is the main farmhouse, it's window and doors had a strange layout.    I'm afraid that I didn't take a photo showing the other side of the building but I did take one from inside the building.  It's a poor photo taken into the light but you can make it out where the builders have propped up the large opening.
The other barn with the tin roof has a more traditional house look to it and there is a small fireplace in the room on the left of the building but it looks like the chimney has been removed

[Hugo]

Not heard a thing from the Church so I phoned up today but had no reply.    There was no massage facility so I sent another e-mail, this time to the Llanrhos Secretary.
Hope that it's not too long before I get a response

[Hugo]

Hugh,  I still cannot find the house in the 1841 Census that looked to me like it was called Piccadilly,  but from the other two properties on the same page then it must be near Tyddyn Iolyn which was in the same township of Cefn Y Coed.
I've looked again at the site I found at British History Online and looked at the map on sheet 006 and zoomed in on Tyddyn Iolyn.   What I found interesting was that there are four detached properties on that site whereas when I visited it recently I only saw three.
The fourth property would be to the right of the one with the tin roof but now there is just a pile of stones there.  At the time of my visit I did wonder what purpose those stones would have been for.

You have done a lot of searching but have you found either William or Elizabeth in the 1891 Census?       In the 1891 Census we know that Margaret was living in Glan Conwy and died later that year and that her husband  Edward had already died so William might have gone to live with a relative.      It's unlikely that William was living with his mother Elizabeth as she wasn't bringing him up according to the 1881 Census so it's still a mystery.
By the way I've looked at the list of William Davies' that you supplied previously and we know your William was the one at No 25 but have you any idea about the  ( William Widower) that was mentioned on the form?

[Hugo]

As I haven't heard anything from my e-mails to the Church,  I went to the Archives again to check the Llanrhos Burial Index.  I was concerned in case I had overlooked something and just wanted to recheck everything.
As it turned out nothing was found from the recheck but I did see something that interested me personally.   The Burial Index is done alphabetically in a persons name and also their address so when I saw Brickfields I had a look there.   It turned out that the person buried there was a distant relation of mine!   It's a small world.

While I was there I was thinking of a way to find the address where your Father was born in Cwlach Street.    So here's what I did,  I looked again at the Llandudno Rates Book for 1910 and listed all the people living in Cwlach Street at that time and their addresses.
I then used one of the names to access the 1911 Census and then I listed all the names of the people and their addresses who were in Cwlach Street at the Census date.  I know that William wasn't living there then but at least I had the details of those people who were.

I then walked along Cwlach Street looking at the names of the properties and found 2 Fron Cottages, although it is no longer called that.
It is next to Daisy Bank, which has still retained it's name and is now one  cottage.   Originally it was two cottages and William Jones was living in No 1 in 1910 and your Father was living in No 2.     The building would have had two front doors but has been altered and only one door exists now but the two chimneys remain.
Ironically this was the house I called at previously and the lady who has lived there didn't know that it was previously called Fron Cottage.
Next door on the other side is a terrace of four cottages that was once called Queen Street and where my G Grandfather lived.   It was called Brooke Cottages in the 1910 Census and was probably renamed that on account of the fact that the Copper Mine manager George Brookes owned all four of them and in fact two of his daughters lived in two of the cottages in the mid 1800's.

The photo is of Fron Cottages,  No 2 would have been the one on the left.      As you look at the cottage Daisy Bank is on the right and Brooke Cottages  (aka  Queen Street) is on the left.
Another photo of Fron Cottage showing Daisy Bank the cream coloured house on the right