Author Topic: Daviies Family  (Read 89618 times)

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Offline DVT

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #270 on: April 06, 2015, 09:06:15 am »
I think "Winllan" is the Welsh for Vineyard.  Could refer to an orchard or fruit-growing area?

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #271 on: April 06, 2015, 09:21:27 am »
Thanks, Hugo/DVT - those seem more accurate.  I wonder if "Slaty" may refer to shaley land.  The field is used for pasture which suggests it might be rocky. Folk may have used an English term - this was not uncommon in field names.

Hugo - could Cae Conbren mean wooden something such as a horn ?

I missed out

Erw Fardir -  I think his could be a corruption of Maer Dir thus "Steward's field acre".



Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #272 on: April 06, 2015, 10:45:28 am »
Winllan or Gwynllan to give it its full name does mean Vineyard in the dictionary but whether they grew grapes in that high exposed ground is debateable.      If it was an orchard you would have thought that they would have used Berllan instead and there are a few "Berllans" in that area in the 1841 Census.

Cambrian,  I have no idea of the actual meaning of Cae Conbren,   as Pren,  meaning wood normally refers to wood that has been cut and worked so I wouldn't like to have a guess on that

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #273 on: April 06, 2015, 03:36:59 pm »
 Cambrian wrote   "Erw Fardir -  I think his could be a corruption of Maer Dir thus "Steward's field acre"

I must admit that I'm stuck on this one as it doesn't make any sense at all unless there has been some mistake or rather misspelling.  I looked at my Welsh dictionary and tried on line too  but nothing came up.

I tried to think how some one who wasn't fluent in Welsh would think and pronounce words and had an idea, but I wouldn't back myself on it whatsoever but it made me laugh.

Erw  =  acre
Ffa    =  beans
Dir    =  certain or necessary
Tir     =  land

So it could be an acre of beans   or a necessary acre of beans     ???

I'd love to know what it really meant and hope someone will know the answer.


Offline Cambrian

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #274 on: April 06, 2015, 04:31:51 pm »
I have given some more thought to Erw Fardir.  I now believe it is Clay Acre.  Mardir is a derivation of Marl Land.

We seem to have missed Ffuches Lai.  This could well be "smaller milking place".

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #275 on: April 06, 2015, 05:43:20 pm »
I have given some more thought to Erw Fardir.  I now believe it is Clay Acre.  Mardir is a derivation of Marl Land.

We seem to have missed Ffuches Lai.  This could well be "smaller milking place".

You could well be correct on Erw Fardir  but it may remain a mystery for now.  As for Ffuches Lai,  that's another one I've never heard of.   
 Llai  definitely means smaller  but I've never heard of Ffuches   I've only heard of a dairy being called llaethdy before.    Where did you see it as milking place?

I've found Fuches on line and it means "herd"   so Furches Lai means smaller herd in English.       No wonder it was hard to find as there are two mutations there and Fuches is not even in my dictionary,  Perhaps it's a South Walian word.    ???

Offline DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #276 on: April 07, 2015, 09:29:46 am »
Wow!  I have now decided not to attempt to become involved in the Tithe transcription project seeing how much of a challenge it has been for such a pool of knowledgeable intellects as yourselves. However, having said that, the suggested English translation of the Tithe document has given me a more in-depth knowledge of the property Tyddyn Iolya.

I have been doing some more digging and find that Margaret's parents had a late edition to their family - Abel Davies. They were living in Cefyn y Coed according to the 1841 census (image attached).  I am hoping someone will be able to tell me the property name and its location.

In addition, I have found yet another illegitimate addition to the family. Margaret's sister Elizabeth gave birth to an illegitimate child Anne in 1833. I know I should move on, but the depth of information available around the early years is intoxicating.

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #277 on: April 07, 2015, 02:42:50 pm »
Hugo - I found it in the online Geriadur Prifysgol Cymru. It can also mean byre, cattle fold etc. There's quite bit there if you are interested.  It may stem from "buarth".  If you look in the post code directory, premises with "Fuches" in the name tend to be more common in Mid-Wales. Regional variations do occur in Welsh quite often, eg, round here "erw" is quite usual for "acre" but in Flintshire you will come across "acre" or "accra" or similar.  Interestingly there's a farm in Penmachno called "Fuches Goch".

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #278 on: April 07, 2015, 02:45:38 pm »
Hugh - When you say they were living at Cefyn y Coed, do you mean the township as my reading of the extract is they were at Ffrith Wen.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #279 on: April 07, 2015, 03:31:31 pm »
Thanks Cambrian for that info on Fuches and as you say there are Regional variations in the Welsh language but even so I would have expected them to be in a dictionary. I'll have a look at the site you have mentioned and thanks again.

Ffrith Wen is in the old township of Cefn Y Coed and can't be too far away from Tyddyn Iolyn although I haven't checked out the map yet.

Hugh,   I was in the Archives for a very short time today as the weather today has been warm and sunny and too good to be indoors for long.
In the Eglwysbach Burial Index  I found the following epitaph which was in Welsh but I've translated it into English for you.:-
 
Grave No B005
In memory of William Jones, Tyddyn Iolyn,  he died June 1st 1885 aged 81,  Also Margaret Jones wife of William Jones she died 7th  June 1887 aged 84

I haven't heard from Llanrhos Church yet but will remind them again

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #280 on: April 09, 2015, 10:02:04 am »
I still haven't heard from Llanrhos Church so I phoned this morning and a recorded message said that the Parish office opens again on the 13th April 2015,  so I'm afraid that the matter will have to wait a bit longer.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #281 on: April 11, 2015, 11:23:12 am »
I've been up and down Ffordd Cyffylog in Eglwysbach looking for the property called Llwynonn and even the lady delivering the post had not heard of it.  I was slightly puzzled about it because I can usually find addresses but hadn't quite given up on Llwynonn.
Anyway, this morning a new postman came to my house and we chatted about the weather and he mentioned that he had been delivering in Eglwysbach yesterday so I asked him about Llwynonn.      No wonder I couldn't find it, the name has been changed to Llygad Yr Haul (eye of the Sun )  and in actual fact I had parked my car next to this property when I was looking for Llwynonn.

Now I know where it is I'll take a photo when I'm in that area next.

Offline DVT

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #282 on: April 11, 2015, 12:54:55 pm »
Ah, you beat me to it!!!  I attended Eglwysbach School from 1954 to 1959, and my sister a couple of years after me.  We could both remember a John Llwyn Onn and a David Llwyn Onn, and knew they'd move to a farm (Henblas) on the edge of the village.  Neither of us could remember where Llwyn Onn was.

I occasionally see someone who was in that school with me and he would definitely have known.  Unfortunately, not bumped into him for a while!!!

My sister and I both thought Llwyn Onn was in the village but from your comments suspect it wasn't!

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #283 on: April 11, 2015, 02:15:20 pm »
The Postman said Llygad Yr Haul was the second building on the right as you turn in to Ffordd Gyffylog.   I remember the place because of a private no parking notice in the front of the building.
When I was looking for info in the Archives I came across a booklet that may be of interest to you as you attended Eglwysbach school.
The booklet is about the history of the school from when it was built in the 1830's I think, to recent times.  There are a number of photos of the school children in it and you never know but you may be included in it DVT.
There wasn't anything about the Davies family in it so I only had a quick read through it

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #284 on: April 11, 2015, 02:33:21 pm »
DVT,   I've had a look on Google streetview at that property and am not entirely convinced that it was Llwyn Onn.     The building is an old bungalow,  sympathetically modernised  but it doesn't seem to be old enough to fit in with the Davies family of the 1800's.
Llwyn Onn as you know means Ash Grove in English but there isn't a tree in sight by the bungalow.
I have seen a property higher up the road that fits the location  of Llwyn Onn but that property has another name.
If you do bump into your old friends I'd appreciate it if you could get the location of Llwyn Onn from them and post it on here.

Zoopla describes Llwyn Onn as a detached freehold house with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and 2 reception rooms but there is no photo of it.    :rage:
It seems that the bungalow which the postman described to me is unlikely to be Llwyn Onn as it doesn't look big enough to have all those rooms that we know Llwyn Onn has.