Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 30401 times)

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Nemesis

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 07:39:41 PM »
Quote from: Ian


There's a reason some families are - to use rather ancient jargon - 'well heeled'.  They're very cautious about how they spend their monet.

A very sensible couple of sentences Ian.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 08:05:02 PM by Ian »
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Merddin Emrys

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 10:53:31 PM »

There's a reason some families are - to use rather ancient jargon - 'well heeled'.  They're very cautious about how they spend their monet.

Should be interesting seeing someone spend their Monet!  :D
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snowcap

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 11:59:26 PM »
My mum brought me here in the 40s because it meant she did,nt have to spend much on fairground amusements, if we went to Rhyl it had a fairground and it was a case of I want to go on this that and every thing, Me, I wanted to go to Rhyl. My thoughts were" Llandudno is a place for old people" and that stayed with me for the rest of my life. A place were people who were getting on in life could go to spend there time in an environment were they were not going to be harassed by a younger genoration and there time here was going to be a time to be savoured. now at 73  I still haven't changed my mind I'm one of those old people, I feel that i can walk around the town in safety and appreciate what the town has to offer us oldies. Ive Been to 147 club tonight to watch the R.L.match with my grandson and his girl friend (who had to leave @ half time because they are under age) with no fear of walking home on my own and getting harassed by a load of drunken yobs. Castleford won 25-24( against StHelens the best team in the country) in the last seconds of the game, what a game. Lucky yorkshire sods). The town has been making a living for all those years, there have been many changes but life goes on and all that take part in the forum may have thoughts on how to improve things here but i would like to bet in another 60years from now it will still be a place for the oldies and Goldie's to spend there twilight hours. Focus on their future and you will be on a winner

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 08:40:50 AM »
Interesting report about Margate's restoration as a seaside resort on BBC 1 this morning. Ignoring that it's down South (the only reason it ended up on the BBC 1 national news...) the point was made during the report that seaside towns across the UK are enjoying a resurgence of interest and a rise in visitor numbers.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 09:06:51 AM »
Because of the hassles of going abroad, NOT for anything the seaside towns are doing.

Open pretty much any newspaper any day and there is yet another story about cancelled flights, terrorists bothering people, passport fiascos, grotty foreign hotels and a million more unsavoury things.

These things put people and especially families off travelling abroad.

It's some well spun propaganda and brilliant for the British tourist industry  $good$


born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 09:27:06 AM »
Just to highlight my point I found these from today's Daily Kampf

You will find dozens more every day... the message is UK holiday Good Foreign holiday Bad

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and then we have this......... :o

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andyCYD

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 10:01:50 AM »
You only have to look at the number of cafes in Llandudno to see that something has changed. I thought a couple of years ago that there were too many for all to survive. In fact more have opened and most seem to be doing well. I think there are a couple of drivers. People buy a lot online now, so we don't need so many shops. Llandudno is still a destination for people who live relatively local (Conwy valley etc.), and having a nice coffee and a piece of cake is now part of their routine trip to town (less shopping to do). Also, the recession has changed spending habits so that they are buying less stuff and taking less holidays, but are compensating by day trips with the cafe being a treat.

Another change is the style of hotel. According to the paint shop, there is a lot of upgrading going on, with a move to the boutique style.  This is also illustrated by the Llandudno Bay hotel, which opens in a couple of weeks, and appears to be a very significant change in style from its past.

I do think the type of accommodation available in and around Llandudno is a limiting factor, particularly for families.  If you look at Abersoch, Rhosneigr etc. they are very busy with families all summer, yet there is not an amusement arcade or laser quest in sight. Most of them are staying in holiday houses (owned and rented) and caravans (static and touring); which I don't think are so abundant around here.  These are the families that like the types of things that LLandudno have to offer, they spend plenty of money in cafes and restaurants and tend to return year after year. 

I was a bit surprised about the query of the educational benefit of a school visit to Llandudno.  The natural environment that is so visible and accessible is an amazing resource to support learning. I am sure kids get far more from visiting LLandudno than any museum.



Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 02:54:29 PM »
For anyone who doesn't think that Llandudno is changing, here are some pictures taken last night.

In past years, even in April, all the pubs, bars and restaurants were busy in Upper Mostyn Street.
By mid June it was nigh-on impossible to get a seat.  I'm only talking about 2 years ago.
At 8pm last night it looked like this, and I was genuinely shocked.
Why would any bar/restaurant need to offer a desperate '25% off EVERYTHING' in so called high season?

As far as the Pier is concerned, in June it was always difficult to close a shop before 7pm, because there were still potential customers around.  Yesterday, I was the only one open after 4pm!!      As it turns out, they were were wise to pack up and go, because I didn't take a penny in the next 2 hours.
I returned at 8pm to take the picture below, to show just how utterly deserted it was, even on a relatively pleasant night.

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 03:19:32 PM »
Quote
Why would any bar/restaurant need to offer a desperate '25% off EVERYTHING' in so called high season?

It might be worth considering the weather this year. It's not unseasonal - by 1960 standards - but it's quite a change from the past 10 years or so. And if the bars and pubs are less busy, that isn't necessarily a bad thing for a family resort. And the weather could easily explain why the pier business is slower.

Quote
Just to highlight my point I found these from today's Daily Kampf

Well, if you will read comics...
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2015, 03:22:09 PM »
Llandudno is busier with day visitors this year than the past few. But it's erratic. However, those who know are starting to plough cash into the hotels, which is a pretty sure indicator that things are improving, not declining. 
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

norman08

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 04:21:27 PM »
ian I walk the prom every day  believe me this year so far if it wasn't,t for the school trips comming here it would be near deserted , the trippers so far this year have paid coach,train or petrol fare they are bringing own food and drink so what I see not spending maybe a stick of rock or an ice cream ,( eat it quick before the seagulls get it ).

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2015, 04:38:50 PM »
Norm is right, and Ian is right (to a degree)
What I mean is, Llandudno is pretty much like a ghost town this year...  and those who are coming are spending very little indeed.


But, the weather is a factor certainly.
This is the longest I can ever remember without a proper warm spell.
2 years ago there was still snow on Tal y Fan mountain in early June, and town was very quiet.  But then the weather broke and it was a busy town from then on.
This year however, the cold weather has lasted much longer, and (according to Derek last night) there is no end in sight.

As I type this, all the other shops on the Pier have given up and gone home, some before 3pm!
The question I always used to get bombarded with was...'Scuse me, why are these shops all shut', even at 7pm.
I don't hear it now.... there is no one here to ask it!

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2015, 07:11:00 PM »
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Llandudno is busier with day visitors this year than the past few. But it's erratic. However, those who know are starting to plough cash into the hotels, which is a pretty sure indicator that things are improving, not declining.

Thinking about what you said above, and Festers lack of customers I checked out Tripadvisor Llandudno's top Hotels, comments are all very positive, however it stood out the number of nights booked, mostly   2 or 3 nights.
We may be heading for long weekend breaks instead of the 1 or 2 week stay of old.

Or is this on top of the normal long stay.......could the weekend break be all year round......day visitor numbers up.......The Extravaganza....Air show....Cycle race....Cambrian GB Rally.....and of course Orme Golf  :)   bring large numbers into the town, I understand these events might not benefit all businesses on the day, but they could come back later, do we need more....

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2015, 07:26:39 PM »
Quote
What I mean is, Llandudno is pretty much like a ghost town this year...  and those who are coming are spending very little indeed

Sorry, Fester. I believe you're  wrong about the first part and almost wrong about the second. The town is no quieter and no busier on average from what we're seeing (there are quiet days and busy days) and our comparisons go back more than forty years, and as for spending maybe they're simply not spending at your place. Or maybe not at the places you frequent. 

The weather is arguably the factor, I think. On the few warm days we've experienced the numbers we've seen have been higher even than mid-season and certainly better than a year ago. But poor forecasts deter impulse tourists, so if the weather ain't slated to be good, they stay at home and do the gardening.

To get the full picture you'd have to have the figures from all the hotels, shops and eateries  and not simply odd and necessarily subjective opinions from individuals, but I know that visitor numbers are definitely up overall and, while they may not be spending on the pier they seem to be elsewhere. But we're drifting off topic.

The original post was about the changing tourist trade in Llandudno and the decline in those willing to spend.  Interestingly, I seem to have heard that refrain for the past 30 years and it's been almost the same every year. Certainly Fester's been grumbling that things have never been so bad ever since he started on the pier :-)))  ;D

The tourist trade is always going to undergo shifts, often on a daily basis, and the demographics are always going to reveal moves but the core business of Llandudno - its appeal to those who enjoy great scenery, the seaside, a pleasantly paced way of life - that's not changed in any way that I can see, and the conference business is still growing healthily. Friends of ours who are accountants confirm that takings in the town since September are generally up. We're also a lot better off in terms of shops that are still open, and that has little to do with Llandudno itself. I seriously doubt the hard-headed bean counters of the likes of the big coffee chains and eateries that have been opening, or the chains willing to spend a fortune upgrading once-derelict hotels would be investing in the town if they believed what some on here are saying.

Fortunately, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginthat Llandudno still gets the lion's share of a growing market in tourist terms and continues to grow so while some may feel the 'town is a ghost town' maybe that's because they're not in the right spirit...   WWW

We have to accept that we're hostages to random meteorological changes but I suspect all the Pythonesque pessimism some on here are exhibiting can be compared to discussions about the weather ("Always had three feet of snow at Christmas when we were kids") and discussions about young people who, it seems, are now rabble beyond control and unlike the model children of yesteryear who never, ever questioned the teacher and were terrified of bobbies.

One final thought: if the punters aren't spending could that be more to do with what is being sold then the punters themselves?

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We may be heading for long weekend breaks instead of the 1 or 2 week stay of old

Very, very few folk now stay for more than 4 days, Steve, and it's been that way for a very long time. A big part of the off-season trade comes from some ingenious ideas the hotels provide to maintain numbers. I think the week-long stays probably ended in the mid-'60s, when air travel became cheaper and more popular, but there's a definite shift away from flying (we travel mostly by train or car) simply because the overall nature of the experience is so gruesome.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

ormegolf

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2015, 09:36:07 PM »
   SteveH, thanks for the mention (alongside extravaganza, air show, rallies etc). I appreciate the mention even though it obviously has your toung  in your cheek. How on earth do you spell toung? Going to have to forget spell checkers and dust down my dictionary.
  However, Steve, you give me praise for helping to bring in large numbers of visitors to the town. I wish. Golf is not a large number pastime, especially in a squashed up 9 hole pitch and putt.
   But, I will take a bow and say it DOES attract visitors to the town. But only in very very small numbers, but a fair percentage of the golfers who do arrive have come a good distance. Porthmadoc area is common, over the border in England, Holyhead --- I could go on.
And the one thing that brings them? The internet in all its forms. Especially trip adviser. They have done a search of a few key words and they have liked what they have seen. And invariably its not just the golf. Its golf, shops, a meal all on the one day.