Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 144745 times)

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Offline SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #210 on: June 25, 2016, 02:00:53 pm »
It just gets better. Say hello to BREGRET, I kid you not!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html

This is not the only example of "BREGRET" I am hearing a lot more .......

Someone has suggested a second poll alongside the 2nd referendum poll, .........How many of the leave voters have changed there mind and would vote remain now, that would be interesting.


Regarding the poll in Hugo,s post   
EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
There may be some confusion, the confirmation comes into your E mail account and is showing up in junk mail

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #211 on: June 25, 2016, 02:15:48 pm »
"We've left the EU, David Cameron's resigned, we're left with Boris, and Nigel has just basically given away that the NHS claim was a lie,” she wrote.

Ha ha, well, if she had read this forum, she would have been warned about that very thing!!
Fester...
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Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #212 on: June 25, 2016, 02:31:53 pm »
Seems to be an awful lot of near hysteria about. Probably from the same people that said it would be a disaster if we didnt join the Euro...  ;D

The people made their decision, that is what democracy is all about. Talk of a second referendum is just sour grapes ftom bad losers.  &shake&

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #213 on: June 25, 2016, 03:31:15 pm »
And you really don't think the Leave camp wouldn't be screaming 'Fixed!' if they'd lost?  No, it was won through repeated lying, which they're now starting to admit. 
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #214 on: June 25, 2016, 03:49:51 pm »
Quote
The people made their decision, that is what democracy is all about.

Well, yes, but ought such a vital and crucial decision be taken by only two thirds of the voting population? Almost 16 million failed to vote.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #215 on: June 25, 2016, 04:24:00 pm »
Quote
The people made their decision, that is what democracy is all about.

Well, yes, but ought such a vital and crucial decision be taken by only two thirds of the voting population? Almost 16 million failed to vote.
Part of being a democracy is that people have the choice whether to vote or not. It doesnt make the result any less valid if they choose not to participate.

Offline DVT

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2016, 04:37:40 pm »
I'm sure I didn't just dream that Cameron said that if only three people voted and it was 2-1 to Leave then he would support that and get on with the job.

Some time ago he said that he had negotiated a deal whereby benefits for immigrants would not start for a few months, also if they were still unemployed after a few years they'd be sent back.  Yet last week he was saying that if Remain won then he would be able to put that proposal through to the EU for consideration and possible implementation.

So Cameron (a Remainer) was lying in suggesting that the deal re immigration had been done - it hadn't - only agreed that he could submit the proposal.  Now that he's lost he's thrown in the towel and expecting someone else to do the work he was elected to do.

A General Election now would throw up an interesting result as the main opposition party also do not have someone strong to carry out the wishes of the electorate!

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #217 on: June 25, 2016, 06:25:16 pm »
If it has shown up nothing else, it has exposed a lot of our MP's as liars, some more blatant than others and others being economical with the truth does not make them worthy of representing the people who have elected them.

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2016, 07:59:13 pm »
The campaign was a shambolic and divisive affair, it got more vitriolic as it went along.
The polarised views of both camps left no room for any sensible debate, just name calling and extreme, outlandish threats or promises.
We were bound to be lied to due the polarised nature of the single question.
All concerned should be ashamed of themselves.
I started this thread off saying it would be a poor show, but I never imagined it could have been as bad as it was.
Hell, it even resulted in the savage murder of an MP!
Fester...
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Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #219 on: June 25, 2016, 10:37:28 pm »
I've been thinking about this, I don't actually want another referendum, I couldn't bear the shame of living in a country where more than 50% of the population were either too lazy to vote, or too stupid to understand a simple question and its implications. 
By the way, I am NOT calling LEAVE voters those things, it's just how the whole of Britain will look to the rest of the world.  If there is another one, I'll vote LEAVE just to protest !!
Fester...
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Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #220 on: June 26, 2016, 07:43:26 am »
If we weren't in the middle of it, it would be fascinating to watch from afar as the two main parties have become so utterly divided and chaotic that what happens next is anyone's guess. Talk about a general election isn't that far from what might well happen. The interesting conundrum is what DaveR said earlier:

"The people made their decision, that is what democracy is all about."


However, the truly curious aspect is that Dave's both right and wrong. Yes - the majority of those who could be bothered to make the effort to vote did indeed choose out, but that same electorate also democratically chose 650 MPs to take major decisions for them, and the vast majority of those democratically elected MPs are for Remaining within the EU. The House now has to debate the fastest growing petition ever, demanding a second referendum, and the paradox they face is in resolving their democratically elected mandate with the democratically determined result. The only feasible option for many will be the calling of another general election, but it remains to be seen how many MPs will be prepared to jeopardise their comfy and well-paid jobs by going to the country.

We truly live in interesting times...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #221 on: June 26, 2016, 07:47:28 am »
From the Guardian comments:

"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign."
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #222 on: June 26, 2016, 09:46:13 am »
I see that those Leave voters who work for Tata Steel have shot themselves in the foot.

3 of the bidders for Tata Steel have pulled out due to the Brexit decision.
They can't say they weren't warned!  &shake& &shake&
Fester...
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Offline SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #223 on: June 26, 2016, 11:18:49 am »
"The fastest growing petition ever"
Petition
EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum

3,065,391 signatures


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #224 on: June 26, 2016, 12:02:26 pm »
I see that those Leave voters who work for Tata Steel have shot themselves in the foot.

3 of the bidders for Tata Steel have pulled out due to the Brexit decision.
They can't say they weren't warned!  &shake& &shake&

Just arguing against myself for a moment, the above decision is quite illogical really.
The falling sterling, making exports cheaper, would make Tata more viable, not less.
So, perhaps we are seeing a convenient way of getting out of those talks, because Tata was even more of a lame duck than they thought before they looked at the books?
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -