Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 143146 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Big Alan

  • Member
  • Posts: 58
  • Scouse not English
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #270 on: June 29, 2016, 05:34:50 am »
I predict a riot.
Justice for the 96

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #271 on: June 29, 2016, 07:59:56 am »
Sadly, I think you may well be right about that.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #272 on: June 29, 2016, 08:48:17 am »
And now the yobs, inspired by the leave vote, are starting to harass the Polish.  In many ways Britain's greatest allies, who gave their all during the war and put up stiffer resistance to the Nazis than any occupied country. Hope the Leave camp are proud of what they've achieved.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales
Yes, because there were never any racist incidents in the UK before last Friday...


Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #273 on: June 29, 2016, 09:10:46 am »
But are they now being given a legitimacy they didn't have before? And against the Polish? And, now the Leave leaders have backtracked on all the Lies promises they made, what wonderful things can we expect from our exit?  Apart, that is, from a divided Britain, soon to be a divided England and Wales...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #274 on: June 29, 2016, 09:48:40 am »
But are they now being given a legitimacy they didn't have before? And against the Polish? And, now the Leave leaders have backtracked on all the Lies promises they made, what wonderful things can we expect from our exit?  Apart, that is, from a divided Britain, soon to be a divided England and Wales...
What legitimacy? The vote was on whether the UK would remain a member of the European Union or not, nothing else. Trying to blame any racist incident that occurs now on the result of that vote is pure sophistry.  &shake&

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #275 on: June 29, 2016, 10:20:27 am »
You might think that, but you can't deny that the central plank of Leave's campaign was immigration and I believe they played on the (perhaps) subconscious fears of many. It's long been believed that UKIP, whose rise has always been regarded as the initiator of the Tories' eventual acquiescence to a referendum, is essentially a racist party, although it professes not to be so. The referendum result is very likely to be viewed by those already predisposed to racism and all its connotations to be almost a 'green light' for more open racist behaviour. I really hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we may be moving into an era of xenophobic-inspired politics, where fear will be seen as the biggest vote-winner.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DVT

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1046
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #276 on: June 29, 2016, 12:13:33 pm »
Surely it's wrong to say that UKIP is a racist party ... from what I've heard they are happy for immigrants to come into this country - but they have to be ones that will be good for the country (as most of the ones we have are, whether they work for the National Health or any of the more menial jobs).

What we don't want is the dross that is coming over by the boatloads, into Europe from north Africa and the middle east, along with the eastern Europeans.  The various mainland countries just pass them through until they reach us - and they have nowhere to go unless they find a bigger boat that can carry them across the Atlantic.

But once they're here we happily hand them the financial and residential help to make them want to stay, and even contribute to their families back home.

Cameron said that he had negotiated a deal whereby they get no benefit handouts for a few months, then are sent "home" if they don't get a job.  That was one (not the only one) of the reasons I voted Leave.

Turns out he hadn't secured a deal - only an agreement that he could put that proposal forward after the referendum.  Lies from Cameron the Remainer - surely not.

We have enough UK home-grown dross without getting any more.




Offline Merddin Emrys

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4426
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2016, 12:16:30 pm »
DVT, spot on!  $good$
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12990
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2016, 12:39:07 pm »
This article goes some way to explaining my concerns for the future, in or out, it is the deal we make that is important, covering everybody's concerns, if we do not get this right...........

Give voters the final say on Brexit .
A Welsh MP is leading a bid to ensure the people of Britain get to have their say on a future Brexit deal struck between the UK Government and the EU.

Swansea West Labour MP Geraint Davies is calling for the package to be put to the country in a referendum – with the chance to stay in the EU if it is rejected.

Mr Davies said: “The fundamental issue at stake now is that the British people get a say on whether they accept the terms of leaving the EU and, if not satisfied, the opportunity to stay; 4 million people have petitioned to say they want another referendum.”

Article 50 is triggered, there should be a Bill requiring the Government to call a referendum on the terms of the UK exit package from the EU, and associated constitutional changes, and an option to remain on current terms if this is not agreed.”

Stressing the need for a deal to be ratified by voters, he said: “It’s crucial that UK citizens agree on the terms of leaving the EU and, if not satisfied, have the opportunity to opt for the UK to remain an EU member. Therefore, the Government must ensure that there be a referendum allowing UK citizens to agree on the terms of the UK EU exit package and associated constitutional changes or the option to remain and that this referendum should be called before Article 50 is triggered.”

MORE  http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/give-voters-final-say-brexit-11537951

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2016, 01:39:48 pm »
I think Hunt suggested the same thing.

DVT: I don't fundamentally disagree with you. We do need to control immigration, although the service industry around here would be in a pretty dire state without EU workers. But I do feel the campaign played on fear far too much - in both directions.  What wasn't given sufficient coverage was the risk to the UK - which now stands a better than evens chance of disintegrating and at least of losing Scotland - but another aspect which is, to my mind, anyway, important.

We're a wealthy and powerful economy. We're always being told we're the fifth largest economy in the world, we already have the tools to control immigration as I've shown before, and it seems to me that if we're that wealthy and that powerful (so the Leave campaign keep telling us) not only do we have nothing to fear from immigration but we do, in fact, have a degree of responsibility to help out the dispossessed of other countries. Despite what the DFM would have us believe, I don't really believe the vast majority of those risking their lives to get to Europe did so simply because they fancied a holiday.

Mass migrations of people throughout history have proved impossible to contain but perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain. I realise this may not be a popular suggestion but we're not isolated from world events.  We're part of them, and I seriously doubt leaving the EU will make any difference whatsoever to our migration levels and might, if the French wash their hands of the Calais camps, actually aggravate the situation.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 08:13:41 am by Ian »
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline born2run

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #280 on: June 29, 2016, 01:57:06 pm »
And now the yobs, inspired by the leave vote, are starting to harass the Polish.  In many ways Britain's greatest allies, who gave their all during the war and put up stiffer resistance to the Nazis than any occupied country. Hope the Leave camp are proud of what they've achieved.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

I don't think anyone. Polish, or otherwise has the right to be harassed because of their nationality!

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #281 on: June 29, 2016, 02:48:39 pm »

What we don't want is the dross that is coming over by the boatloads, into Europe from north Africa and the middle east, along with the eastern Europeans.  The various mainland countries just pass them through until they reach us -

Ha ha, DVT, they certainly will NOW!
The ignorance involved in that statement is breathtaking,  didn't you know that the EU rules state that migrants must now register for asylum in the country in which they arrive (say Greece), and not the EU country they want to get to? (say UK)
This is why Greece and other countries have been absorbing the Syrian migrants and Italy has absorbed the N African one's.
But from now on, they will indeed wave them through.
What has been unleashed here is disastrous, and the Leave politicians have no plan, no strategy of how to deal with it.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12990
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #282 on: June 29, 2016, 03:18:25 pm »

Offline DVT

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1046
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #283 on: June 29, 2016, 09:02:41 pm »
What has been unleashed here is disastrous, and the Leave politicians have no plan, no strategy of how to deal with it.

It also seems that the Remain camp had no real plan if they won (which they didn't), and certainly no contingency plan if they lost (which they did).  Faced with that DC spat his dummy out and there seems to be no-one capable of doing the best for (Great) Britain.


Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #284 on: June 30, 2016, 08:02:33 am »
But if they'd won they wouldn't have needed a plan, surely?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.