Genealogy - Grandfather Moneypenny

[MissM]

Hello all,

My Grandfather, who was estranged from his family is believed to have lived in a hotel/B & B in Llandudno at 30 - 39 Clifton Street probably in the 1960's/70's.

He was Matthew Moneypenny and he was born in Liverpool in 1885. I know he married again while he was there and that he is buried on the Great Orme, probably at St Tudno's but without a headstone. I'm trying to find out when my Grandad died or anything about his time in Llandudno as I know nothing about him.

I recently looked through the Death records on Find My Past from 1970 to 1985 (in case he made it to 100!) but I can't find him there which has totally thrown me. 

Someone on Rootschat.com gave me this link and suggested I post here.  I would appreciate any help given so thanks in advance.

Lynne

[suepp]

Welcome to the forum, I have a listing for a Florence E. Moneypenny at 39 Clifton Road  in the town directory from 1969. I lived in Clifton Road in the late 60's/70's I don't remember anyone of that name myself but will ask my parents if they recall them.

A quick check of the North Wales BMD reveals that Matthew Moneypenny married Florence Hadley in Conwy County in 1944

[MissM]

Hello Suepp and thanks for the welcome.

I am surprised to see that Grandad had married back in the 40's.  When my Grandma died in 1974 his family went looking for him to let him know and found he'd remarried - a surprise to them as they thought he was still married to Grandma.....  I presumed the second marriage had been a fairly recent thing!

Thanks for helping me find out more about Matthew.  It's a shame he left before anyone could get to know him.  It sounds like he was very settled with Florence so I'm glad for that.

Lynne

[suepp]

Hi Lynne, my parents don't remember the name I'm afraid.

 It would be worth obtaining the Marriage certificate which would give a few more clues!

also, just had a look on Ancestry and found a death record for Matthew Moneypenny in Conwy county dated 1950.
 
I find that although Findmypast is great for looking up the 1911 census, Ancestry is much better across all categories, and they are currently in the process of putting on the 1911 census in full, at the moment you can only  search  for head of households.

[MissM]

Hi Sue

Thanks for the ino.  I'll have a look at Ancestry and consider a subscription.  I am using Pay As You Go on Find My Past at the moment to see how much I will use it but I maybe it's time to sign up to Ancestry instead.

I'll also check out my Grandad's death certificate as I haven't been able to find anything before. I looked at the St Tudno website but I think he might have been buried in the council part of the cemetery so I might try them next.

Thanks for all your help Sue, much appreciated.

Lynne

[Hugo]

I was in the Conwy Archives in Llandudno and had a look at the Street indexes there.   Florence E Moneypenny was listed there at 39 Clifton Road in the indexes from 1957 to 1975 but neither were listed in the 1939 Street Index.
These indexes are also in alphabetical order and there were no Moneypenny's listed for 1939 so they may have moved to Llandudno after the war.
I had a look in the Llandudno burial records and they have no records of a burial for Matthew Moneypenny at either St Tudno's or Llanrhos' Cemeteries.
Just in case you are interested I have enclosed a photo of No 39 Clifton Road which in those days was run as a Boarding House. No 39 is the house with the open door and hedge to the front

[MissM]

Hi Hugo

Thanks so much for your research. 

I knew they lived in a boarding house but didn't realise it was for that long! Apparently my Grandad came and went quite a few times over the years after his children were born but I wasn't sure when he left for good. This would confirm it was after 1939. Life was very hard for his wife and children without him and one of their sons remained single, supporting his Mum until she died in 1974, not knowing her husband had remarried.... unless she did but never told anyone....   

It's disappointing Matthew doesn't appear in the Llandudno burial records.    My parents looked for his grave there many years ago and came to the conclusion he didn't have a headstone but they still believed he was buried on the Orme. I'm at a loss as to where to look now.

Thanks for the photo of the house. A forum member in Rootschat has also sent me photos of the road.  They will all go into my family tree!

Thanks again Hugo for your help.

Lynne

I was in the Conwy Archives in Llandudno and had a look at the Street indexes there.   Florence E Moneypenny was listed there at 39 Clifton Road in the indexes from 1957 to 1975 but neither were listed in the 1939 Street Index.
These indexes are also in alphabetical order and there were no Moneypenny's listed for 1939 so they may have moved to Llandudno after the war.
I had a look in the Llandudno burial records and they have no records of a burial for Matthew Moneypenny at either St Tudno's or Llanrhos' Cemeteries.
Just in case you are interested I have enclosed a photo of No 39 Clifton Road which in those days was run as a Boarding House. No 39 is the house with the open door and hedge to the front

[Hugo]

Hi MissM,   
There is a lot of info in the Conwy Archives and some of it may be helpful to you.   Sue has established from Ancestry that your Grandfather died in 1950 in Llandudno but there is no burial records of him there. From where he was living in Clifton Road the normal burial place would be St Tudno's but I also checked Llanrhos just in case but no records of either your Grandfather or Florence were there.
There is a possibility that they were both cremated in the Colwyn Bay Crematorium which is nearby in Mochdre but I forgot to ask where those records would be. Sorry about that.
It's such an unusual name for the area it shouldn't be too difficult to find out what happened. If I do find anything I'll post it on here.

[MissM]

Thanks Hugo, I appreciate your efforts.  It's a bit of a strange one isn't it? I'm really surprised he isn't on the Orme and I definitely thought Florence would be there.  I'll ask on Rootschat if anyone is able to check the crematorium records.

Thanks,
Lynne

[MissM]

Hello all,

I thought I'd let you know my cousin in North Wales has found Matthew's grave. It is in the council part of the cemetery next to St Tudno's in section X11, plot number 98.   Curiously his wife Florence is not buried with him.

My cousin is going to visit the plot sometime but as I said earlier, there was no headstone when my family visited once before. He also wants to see the photo you sent Hugo so thanks again for that!

Best wishes,
Lynne

[Hugo]

It's strange that Matthews name did not appear on the computer or in the paper based records at the Conwy Archives, I'll take it up with them when I call next time.
There are two burial grounds in St Tudno's, one is near the Church and enclosed by a wall and is split into Sections A-G.   The other is the newer section of the graveyard.   I have plans of the graves there from A-L only, but I believe there is a plan of the graves at an entrance to the Graveyard and this should pinpoint his grave.
Florence's grave is a mystery though, she may have moved from the area or even remarried.

[Hugo]

Hi MissM,
I was down at the Archives again today and although they still have no evidence of the burial of Matthew or Florence Moneypenny they do have evidence that on 3rd June 1950 Florence E Moneypenny of Endsleigh Clifton Road purchased Plot 98 in Section XII  of the Council Cemetery.  I later called at St Tudno's and took a photo of the grave which is marked only by a stone without any visible words on it.  I have sent an e-mail to you with the photos on it and enclosed a contact number for Rev John Nice who may be able to provide you with the information that you are after.  Good luck.

[DaveR]

Good work, Hugo. 

[MissM]

Thanks Hugo!  I got your email and the photos.  What a strange feeling to see, for the first time, the grave of a grandparent you never knew... I wonder what Matthew would have made of his grandchildren seeking him out. He did once return to Liverpool and waited outside the place my father worked to speak to him.  He asked after the family and told Dad he thought of them often but he never got in touch again.

I've emailed the Rector and await his reply.  The other certificates should arrive either Saturday or Monday. The picture is almost complete.

Lynne

[suepp]

Good work, Hugo. 

seconded -