Robert Edward and Sarah Anne (Davies) WILLIAMS

[jom]

Sorry for the delay in replying to you both, Rhuddlan and Hugo and thank you for your further input. 

It was very interesting Hugo to know that Llwynon Rd. is the next one on from Ormonde Terrace and certainly adds slight weight to it being a family of relatives.  I have looked online at baptisms previously but had not found Awenna.  The interesting extra info supporting the possibility of her being my mystery Awenna is that whilst my great Aunt's middle name was Awena (one "n"), the photo we possess of "Awenna and Glyn" distinctly uses double "n" as in Awenna WILLIAMS.  Can't wait for the certificate and more than happy to share it Hugo. 

As you may or may not recall, I am a direct descendant of a WILLIAMS family too.  If you recall Hugo you very kindly found my great great grandparent's grave in St. Tudno's cemetery ie John and Martha (Elliott) WILLIAMS.  John had been a one time gardener and later a publican at The Old Telegraph Inn on the Orme.  I presume there is no known connection with yours.

Regarding the other Awenna, Rhuddlan, MORRIS is a name connected to my WILLIAMS line but don't believe Awenna MORRIS is part of it.  Not to my knowledge anyway.  My MORRIS link is that John and Martha (Elliott) WILLIAMS' (as above), daughter Martha married Thomas Bridge MORRIS.  They took over the Old Telegraph for a spell following the death of John WILLIAMS.  They had 2 sons

John Bridge who became a professional golfer and for a time was at Rhyl golf course (1939 Register).  He married Mary WOOD and I have yet to establish any offspring
Richard who according to family was also a professional golfer but have only found him noted as a gardener (1939 Register).  I do not know as yet if he married or had children

Thank you too for the added info on Ewart Fletcher BALL.  I note from that link that their family tree states she was Awenna JONES but the GRO is quite clear she was WILLIAMS.  I found them both in Harrogate (a place I've lived!) on the electoral register between 1952 - 1954.  I note that Janet was born here from the GRO whereas Sheila and Trevor were born in Cheshire.

Thank you again.  I'll update once I receive the certificate.

 

[Hugo]

I did have a photo of Ormonde Terrace in my collection but can't find it at present but will take another just so you can see what the cottages are like.
In the early 19th century Llandudno as a town had not developed and most people lived on the Great Orme and worked in the Copper mines or in agriculture. The Williams family that I was helping on the forum lived in Cyll Terrace which is above Ormonde Terrace and although a John Williams lived there I could not establish a link with your John Williams who is buried close to the old St Tudno's Church.
I mentioned Awenna Morris only because of the location and that it was such an unusual name. In fact I had never heard of that name before I went to the Archives.
My walking friend Tellytubby was a member of Rhyl Golf Club until fairly recently and I wonder if he can shed any light on that part of the family.
I'm looking forward to seeing the details on the Certificate you ordered, perhaps it may open some more doors.

[jom]

Thanks for the offer Hugo re the photo of Ormonde Terrace but I took one from Google earth a few years ago.  This is No 6 where the Davies family (Emily Agnes (Owen) and David DAVIES) lived. My mother vaguely recalls it. 

Re Cyll Terr.  Emily Agnes'  Step mother, Laura (nee ROBERTS) half brother Edward, and half sister Ellinor OWEN (another forum member's grandmother!) lived at no 5 in 1901 after the death of husband and father John OWEN

[jom]

 D)  Well it has finally arrived ... the much awaited marriage certificate for one Robert Edward WILLIAMS and Sarah Ann DAVIES.  The answer is ...   She IS my relative and therefore the Sally Mum recalls from her one and only visit to Dad's family in Llandudno in 1948!  I'm afraid I don't have my scanner available at the moment but the addresses are very clear for both bride and groom.

Details are as follows:
Married 10 Feb 1920 The Tabernacle Chapel, Llewelyn St., Llandudno, by certificate.  Minister David DAVIES
Groom: Robert Edward WILLIAMS Age 33, bachelor, Railway carter, ex army, of Green Bauk, Augusta St. Father Robert a general labourer
Bride: Sarah Ann DAVIES Age 24, Spinster of 6, Ormonde Terr., Great Orme.  Father David, a cab Driver (which he still is in the 1939 register)

This means that Awenna WILLIAMS is also my missing Awenna for whom I have a photo and then similarly Eric has been found ie Robert Eric WILLIAMS

It is this Eric whom Dad had a recollection of him having fallen from the Orme collecting gulls eggs and sustaining a head injury.  Eric was quite a canny chap as he'd refuse to tell paying guests at their guest house where to buy cigarettes but would happily accept money and go and buy them for them.  He also once took Dad out to sea in a rowing boat and tried to tip Dad out.  However Dad could swim but Eric couldn't!

I have posted this photo before but thought it might be interesting now and is of Awenna with a chap called Glyn (now no longer thought to be Awenna's brother but may be a cousin).  The older lady is my Great Grandmother Susannah Anne (Owen) WILLIAMS (different Williams family as far as I know).  the second photo is of Awenna as a child with an unknown visitor it says on the back!

Once again the forum has helped no end    Thank you

[Hugo]

I'm pleased that you've got another link to your family Jom.  The Tabernacle is a Welsh Baptist Church built in 1875 and is one of Llandudno's listed buildings.
I had a feeling that they got married in a Chapel because of the fact that I couldn't find the records at the Archives.   They have many Church records but very little Chapel records for some reason.

[Hugo]

I've just been reading something on the internet and it said that in 1827  the Tabernacl chapel for Baptists was constructed in Llandudno, this was built on a site near where the present day Tabernacle Chapel was built in 1875.
The older Chapel was commonly called Capel Bach (Little Chapel)
The family may therefore have had a Baptist background going back well before 1875.

[jom]

Sorry for the delay in replying.  Been having some major internet issues which are hopefully, now resolved.

Thank you Hugo for all your help.

 Whilst in some ways I'm nort too surprised re the baptist link it had thrown my research in terms of access!!  I do recall Dad once telling me that his family were quite religious but I believed them to be methodists,  But that is my great grandparents rather than this specific line.  It may, as you say explain the lack of records on line for John and Margaret (Jones) OWEN'S family as opposed to his family with second wife Laura. I know very little re their specific denomination.  You may well be right

[jom]

Hi Folks

Long time no chat!  Been researching many branches of my tree but have very recently come across some more information to possibly resolve my "Glyn" mystery

I have been researching Thomas DAVIES Bn 1898 probably at 9, Penyffridd, Llandudno to David, a cab driver and Emily Agnes (Nee OWEN) DAVIES. Emily was a sibling of my Great Grandmother.  I have his baptism record giving this address, so assume he was born there

I know Thomas married Margaret E JONES in 1920 and in 1939 were living at The Cottage, Council Yard.  Thomas being a refuse collector supervisor.

It seems they probably had a son John Glyn DAVIES Bn 1921 who may have emigrated to Australia in 1952.  This John was a Joiner and carpenter whose residence on the passenger list was The cottage, Fire Station, Llandudno

1. Would this be the same place as The Cottage, Council Yard?
2. Does anyone know of this family
3. Could John Glyn actually be my Glyn in the bandsman's uniform.  Certainly would be of about the right age.  This would also make Awenna and "Glyn" cousins

John Glyn DAVIES looks to have married Helen (Nee CONWAY) in 1939 and had 2 sons.  I can find as mentioned, the passenger list for John in 1952 but not for his wife or sons, whom through research I note to be Joseph and Alun.  I assume they went over too at some point but it would seem not at the same time.

Are the names
Helen, Joseph and Alun DAVIES at all familiar.  I may have to wait for the 1921 census!

Look forward to hearing any thoughts.

Do hope you all are well
Happy Guy Fawkes one and all

[Cambrian]

Hi Jom

I can shed a bit of light on the Cottage at least.  This was a nice, brick-built house in the corner of the Council Yard, immediately behind the old Fire Station which fronted Market Street. I believe it was originally occupied by the Water Inspector (who was also a Fire Brigade member) but in more recent times was occupied by the Foremen of various services.  The last occupant was, I recall, "Johnny the Bear" who was in charge of either the Highways gang or Refuse collectors in UDC and early Aberconwy BC days.

[Helig]

There is a Family Tree for this person on Ancestry. It is the Griffiths family tree.

John G Davies travelled to Sydney in June 1952 as you say. He went to stay at 27 Hodel Street, Townsville, Queensland, Australia. The information on the tree states that this was where Auntie Gwyladys Turner (nee Jones) lived along with some other relations. Gwyladys was from Conwy. I assume she was related via his mother Margaret Elizabeth Jones.

The tree shows he died possibly in Queensland in the year 2000.

It has two children of his marriage to Helen but the details are private.

The tree confirms he is the son of Thomas Davies and Margaret Elizabeth Jones. There are some photos on it.

There is nothing on it to indicate Helen went to Australia. There isn't much information on her.

Helig

[jom]

Hi Jom

I can shed a bit of light on the Cottage at least.  This was a nice, brick-built house in the corner of the Council Yard, immediately behind the old Fire Station which fronted Market Street. I believe it was originally occupied by the Water Inspector (who was also a Fire Brigade member) but in more recent times was occupied by the Foremen of various services.  The last occupant was, I recall, "Johnny the Bear" who was in charge of either the Highways gang or Refuse collectors in UDC and early Aberconwy BC days.

Thanks Cambrian

That is what I had guessed and assumed but good to know I'm on the right track.

I have been in touch with a relative now, of John Glyn and it may be, that he is not the chap in my photo.  It looks as though they may be happy to swap photos so will wait and see what they say.  Thanks for your clarification.  Most helpful

[jom]

There is a Family Tree for this person on Ancestry. It is the Griffiths family tree.

John G Davies travelled to Sydney in June 1952 as you say. He went to stay at 27 Hodel Street, Townsville, Queensland, Australia. The information on the tree states that this was where Auntie Gwyladys Turner (nee Jones) lived along with some other relations. Gwyladys was from Conwy. I assume she was related via his mother Margaret Elizabeth Jones.

The tree shows he died possibly in Queensland in the year 2000.

It has two children of his marriage to Helen but the details are private.

The tree confirms he is the son of Thomas Davies and Margaret Elizabeth Jones. There are some photos on it.

There is nothing on it to indicate Helen went to Australia. There isn't much information on her.

Helig

Hi Helig

Many thanks for that input.  I'll contact the tree owner and see where that gets me.  I'm less certain that he is the chap in my photo though.  I'll see what these other avenues produce

Many thanks

[Hugo]

Hi Jom,  on a different matter I came across this on an ancestry site and wondered if it had any connection with your family in NZ?

Lynn Owens  |   Contact Lynn
60's    New Zealand

[Helig]

I have had another look at the Family Tree on Ancestry and it shows Gwladys Jones was a sister of Margaret Elizabeth Jones. She was born Conwy in 1910 and died there in 1973. Gwladys married Ivor Albert Turner in Conwy in 1933 and they were living in Townsville, Queensland in 1949. No date of departure from the UK shown but is seems to have been in the 1940s. She stayed in Australia until her husband died in 1967 and then returned to Conwy according to the information given. She was living at 25 Chapel St, Conwy at the time she died.

This tree has Thomas Davies 1898- having died in Australia but no date, or details, given for his death.

Margaret Elizabeth Davies, nee Jones, died in 1974 and her Probate shows her to be of 25 Chapel St, Conwy.

There are some wonderful photos on this tree.

[jom]

Hi Jom,  on a different matter I came across this on an ancestry site and wondered if it had any connection with your family in NZ?

Lynn Owens  |   Contact Lynn
60's    New Zealand

Thanks for that Hugo

Worth a punt!