Author Topic: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961  (Read 19687 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #120 on: March 07, 2017, 04:09:23 PM »
Mull,   I'm sure that you asked about the land to the side of Tan Y Wal and I said that I saw no evidence of any development but in the Planning Applications for 26th February 2017 I saw this and thought that you might be interested.

Application No: 0/43726 Grid Reference: 281343,381641
Application Type: Full Case Officer: James Chan
Determination Level Delegated Team: DC West Team
Received Date : 17/02/2017 Registered Date: 24/02/2017
Development Type(s): New Development
Ward: Penrhyn
Community Council: Cyngor Tref Llandudno Town Council
Location: Land adjacent Tan Y Wal Bryn Gwynt Lane Penrhynside LLANDUDNO LL30 3DA
Proposal: Proposed dwelling






mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #121 on: March 08, 2017, 11:03:05 AM »
Hugo, thanks for keeping me posted.
I have been on the Conway Council website but the latest applications on there are dated January, they need to catch up.

I have also been in touch with Caernarfon about the family history courses they ran last month. Unfortunately they did not have any information packs spare. They advised me that there would be further courses later in the year and they would be advertised locally. If possible could you please let me know if you become aware of them.

Not been easy for the past few weeks Mrs Mull has a few health issues which hopefully are now getting sorted. It has not helped by the surgery on the Ross of Mull not having a resident GP for the past 3 years. One has just been appointed but all we have had for 3 years has been a succession of locums from all over the world. No wonder NHS Highland are in financial trouble the expenses and travelling cost must astranomical. The island dentist has just retired, despite knowing he was finishing for the past 2 years they have only just advertised the post. You could not make this up !

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #122 on: March 08, 2017, 02:37:22 PM »
Sorry to hear Mrs Mull has been ill and I hope she recovers soon. I think the healthcare is pretty grim all over Scotland. Where I live the local GP practice is one GP short, the senior partner left in June 2015 and has never been replaced. He returned to North Wales. They have relied on a series of locums ever since but it is a struggle for the doctors as the locums are limited as to what they can do. The cost of the locums is another factor and these must be expensive to fund on a long term basis.

Helig.


Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #123 on: March 08, 2017, 04:59:51 PM »
Mull, if you look at the CCBC website and then look at planning you'll see weekly planning applications and click on the one for 20th Feb 2017 and it should be there.
I hope that Mrs Mull soon gets sorted out and then you can look forward to a short holiday in N Wales and the weather should be better then.
We have similar problems in Wales but we do not have the island factor to contend with here.
In Dolgellau the last NHS dentist has just gone so about 4,500 patients are naturally a bit down in the mouth about it

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2017, 05:35:20 PM »
Last Monday morning I met Mull and his lovely wife Lorna in the Conwy Archives and we had a look at some of the records there.  Just when the Archives was closing the Archivist found a box of goodies containing information about Tan Y Wal in Penrhynside but we left them for the afternoon.
We then had a quick look at properties where Mull's relatives once lived and then went to the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwyddan to see the graves of the G and GG Grandparents.   I'm pleased to say that the Cemetery has been cleaned up since my last visit there but you still have to be careful as I found out when I nearly took a tumble.
Afterwards we enjoyed a drink and teacake at Home from Home Cooking in Penrhyn Bay then we went to have a look at Tan Y Wal  where Mull's Nain and other relatives once lived.   It was really interesting to see and hear stories about Hugh Hughes the cobbler and shoemaker  who had his workplace near the cottage.
Then we went next door and spoke to a Mr Roberts who could also recall visiting Hugh's workshop many years ago.
Like all good things time went too quickly and I had to say goodbye to Mull and Lorna and Fly who is Mull's search and rescue dog.
Mull was then going back to the Archives to do more research and I hope that he was able to find what he was looking for.
On Tuesday and Wednesday Mull was on his way to Anglesey to research the Llandegfan side of the family so I hope that it went well and that he can bring us up to date with everything

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #125 on: July 27, 2017, 10:51:46 AM »
Thank you for the update Hugo. I am pleased to hear that Mull managed to visit and pursue his research. There is nothing like a field visit (so to speak) to see it all for yourself.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #126 on: July 27, 2017, 01:43:36 PM »
It was really good to see Mull and put a face to the name and especially for the three of us to be alongside the old cottage of Tan Y Wal that holds so many nice memories for the family..
Mull pointed out the spot where Hugh Hughes, the old cobbler had his work place and it made you think of the days gone by.   The site which was up for auction in July was quite big and had far reaching views so I'm sure that there will be a nice new house built on the site.
You've found a lot of info for Mull and with every thing else that he's found on his trip to Wales, I'm sure his head will be swimming with thoughts while he's trying to absorb it all.



mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #127 on: August 07, 2017, 01:50:18 PM »
At last I am getting round to putting facts together after our flying visit to North Wales.
Been a hectic time after our return home, which has included 2 searches for missing people. One was all the way over Linlithgow for a day searching for the gentleman in the news this morning whose body was found in his own house after 4 weeks missing.

First of all I owe a big thank you to Hugo, Helig, Philmac, Cambrian and others for everything you have found out for me.
It was nice to meet up with Hugo who showed us around the archives in Llandudno then took us around Brookes Street, Jubilee Street,
Glanwydden Burial Ground and Penrhynside. Also thank you for introducing us to Home from Home in Penrhyn Bay. We came back for our evening meal there enjoyed it so much we returned again for our last evening. Food and service ,First class.

After Penrhynside we returned to the archives and I took the opttttunity to look at the ownership of Tan y wal, Penrhynside from 1884 onwards.
 27 Nov 1884.
Conveyance Major General Owen Lewis Cope Williams
To
Richard Hughes/Elias Davies.
Was this the break up of a larger estate ?

20 Dec 1888.
Conveyance Richard Hughes
To
R S Chamberlian + Another.

14 Sept 1889.
Conveyance R S Chamberlian + Richard Jones
To
Mrs Emily Ansdell, 11 Esplanade Gardens, Scarborough. Passed on to Misses M E + M G Preesce.

20 Dec 1924.
Conveyance M E+Mg Preece
To
John and Hugh Hughes.

23 Dec 1940.
Mortgage taken out with Refuge Assurance CO Ltd, Manchester. 28 Aug 1940.
Hugh and Elizabeth Hughes and ( Richard or Robert) Thomas, Bodfarch, Ffordd Ffriddoedd Road, Bangor, Retired Master Mariner.
( who was Mr Thomas and what was his interest in Tan Y Wal ? )

21 Nov 1952
Mr Thomas dies and Hugh Hughes clears the outstanding 200.

14 Nov 1961
Conveyance Hugh Hughes
To
Robert George Hill, Altringham for 1,200.

This is the last record in Llandudno archives.

On 12 July 2017 Tan Y Wal  with planning permission for a 3 bedroom bungalow on the adjoining land was sold at auction for 152,000.
Planning permission for a bungalow on the site has been on going for a number of years but no work has been carried out yet apart from demolishing a section of wall to gain access off the lane.
If you read though the restrictions imposed by the council on access etc you wonder how they will be able to get heavy plant and equipment on to the site given the tight clearances through the village and along the lane.
In the meantime the old Grade 2 listed cottage is empty and in need of some TLC.

Thats all for today must take Fly out for a run.

Cambrian

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #128 on: August 07, 2017, 06:47:38 PM »
Glad to hear you had a productive visit Mull and were in good hands with Hugo.

You are right about the break up of an estate in 1884. A number of properties and land in Penrhynside were owned by Thomas Peers Williams who owned Marl Hall.  When he died in 1875, the estate passed to his son, General Owen Lewis Cope Williams. Sale was by a public auction in Colwyn Bay in June 1884.  As an aside, the Williams family lived at Craig y Don near Beaumaris and they transferred the name to the Craig y Don area of Llandudno which was also disposed of but unlike the Mostyns, the Williams were content to sell the freeholds.

R S Chamberlain was a local solicitor who practised for many years from Trinity Square, Llandudno.  He founded the firm of Chamberlain, Johnson & Parke. It seems to me that the property was probably used as an investment by the next few owners.

According to Ken Dibble, Hugh Hughes remained at Tan y Wal until his death in January, 1963 at the age of 84.




Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #129 on: August 08, 2017, 12:21:24 PM »
That was interesting info about the estate Cambrian and the Williams family from Anglesey.  They were certainly achievers at their various occupations.

Owen Williams said that "it was thought that he was most extravagant in laying out the belt of land for the promenade as it was considered a waste of property"   That was probably the Mostyn's thoughts but the promenade is renowned as an example of good planning.
Owen is also quoted as saying that if he had his own way it would have been deeper.

I'm guessing that Mull's ancestors at Tan Y Wal rented the property from the estate but there is still a lot for Mull to find including the relationship between his Nain and Hugh Hughes

 

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2017, 12:34:24 PM »
I'm pleased that the box of goodies in the Archives gave you some info on Tan Y Wal.    The house has certainly had an interesting history and your family had strong ties to it.  After seeing the site and it's potential I bet you would have liked it for a holiday home.

You mentioned the transaction on the 23rd Dec 1940 with Richard/Robert Thomas of Bangor and I was wondering if he was the husband of Rose.     You have mentioned Rose before and established that she lived in Bangor but I couldn't find your posting on here about it and I'm afraid that my old brain has let me down remembering Rose's husband's name.

It was nice to hear that you went back to Home from Home in Penrhyn Bay, it's a nice cafe and we've always had a nice meal in the place

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2017, 04:29:26 PM »
Mull,  I went down to the Archives this afternoon  and had a look at a number of records and I am almost certain that your Nain Grace did not have a brother whose real name was Percy, he was in fact Pierce Jnr.     It was quite interesting looking at the various records as the names were often spelt incorrectly and dates were also varied.

My reason for believing that Percy was in fact Pierce are numerous but mainly because of the info from 1911
The Census records show Pierce Jones at 29 Jubilee Street Llandudno and was signed by Pierce Jones
The official rates book also shows the same
The Street Index though shows Percy Jones at 29 Jubilee Street  Llandudno

Pierce Jones Jnr married his wife Harriet in 1897 and there were three children shown in the 1911 Census,  Jennie c Jones aged 5,  Phyllis P  Jones aged 2 and Albert P Jones aged 1.

Now I've no idea why Piece was called Percy, it could be that they didn't want to refer to little and and big Pierce.   It could even be that Perce  (without the I )  could be pronounced as Percy.   If only your Nain had told you, but sadly she is no longer here.

Anyway the school records of the National School of St George  show some info which differs but the only thing that is consistent is the name Percy Jones and his address of Severn Cottages.    I've listed things below from the school admission register of 1892
pupil   Percy Jones
father Price Jones  Severn Cottage  (note spelling )
date of birth  18th May 1883

An earlier record from 1891 at the National school of St George shows this:-
Percy Jones
birth date  3rd May 1884
Father Pierce Jones   7 Back Augusta Street Llandudno

And another register from St Beuno's National School shows these details:-
Percy Jones
birth date  20th April 1883
Father Pierce Jones     Severn Cottage

I have checked the birth Registers too and it was Pierce Jones Jnr that was registered in 1883 but no trace of any Percy Jones


mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2017, 09:12:42 PM »
Thanks for that Hugo.
I have been sat at the table most of the afternoon trying to unravel the Llandegfan end of things.
Going round in circles but will get there eventually.

mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #133 on: August 08, 2017, 10:21:23 PM »
Do not know if Richard Thomas was related at all but Rosetta Jones married Emlyn Thomas in 1920 in Bootle, Liverpool.
Rosetta had been staying with my nain at that time and Emlyn Thomas was a lodger with them. Occupation on the marriage certificate was shown as a Baker.

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2017, 10:27:49 PM »
I've just found that out as I've been reading some of my old notes and found out that Rosetta married Emlyn Thomas.  From memory I think that Rosetta and Emlyn lived in Bangor


By the way Mull, when you went to the cemetery in Llandegfan was that small raised section behind Ty'n Llan still overgrown?