Author Topic: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961  (Read 12960 times)

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mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #164 on: January 03, 2018, 06:05:52 PM »
Hi Helig, Happy New Year.
Hope last nights storm did not do any damage in your area of the Borders. Seemed fairly normal on Mull but perhaps we are used to it.

The man we want is living in Jubilee Street. Hugo took us to look at the house when we were in Llandudno in the summer.

Have you had any luck finding a Pheobe Roberts, mother of John Jones in Llandegfan area Anglesey, 1883/1884 and did she marry and have more children ?

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #165 on: January 03, 2018, 07:47:16 PM »
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When I looked at the entries for Pierce Jones on Ancestry, it became clear that there was more than one person by that name living in Llandudno in the period 1891-1911.

There was Pierce Jones, age 49 in 1911, a Corn Dealer who was born in Prestatyn. He was married to Octavia and lived in 1 Penrhyn Crescent, Llandudno.

A Pierce Jones, age 28 in 1911, a Plasterer, born in Llandudno and married to Harriet. They lived at 29 Jubilee Street, Llandudno.

A Richard Pierce Jones, age 22 in 1891, a Servant/Draper's Assistant (the head of the household was a Draper) who was born Capel Curig and lived in Compton House, Lloyd St.

Helig


Don't forget that Pierce Jones Snr  Master Plasterer, was also still alive in 1911 and living in 2 Severn Cottages at the back of Augusta Street.
Pierce died in 1922 ans was buried at the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwyddan

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #166 on: January 05, 2018, 03:56:58 PM »
Hello Mull,

I apologise for not getting back on the Board regarding Phoebe Roberts. I did look for her a few times but then came down with a lurgy that lasted for two months, so there was no progress afterwards.

It proved impossible to locate a marriage for Phoebe Roberts with any degree of certainty. I couldn't find anyone of that name marrying on Anglesey. She is in Llandegfan with her family in the 1891 census and she is there in the 1901. In 1901 she is aged 42 and Theophilus Roberts, age 16, and an Apprentice Blacksmith is in the household. I found her eventually in the 1911 census, she is transcribed as Phoche Roberts and I found her only after searching for Theophilus, her son. They are living in Bodwilog, Llandegfan, Phoebe is shown as single, age 53, the occupation given as "Farmers" and for Theophilus "Farm son working at home". So we know that she hadn't married up to 1911 at least.

The 1921 census might help us when it is released but it looks as though she didn't marry and lived with her son until 1911. I found two marriages for Theophilus Roberts in Bangor Registration District in 1916 and 1917. It is very likely at least one of these is her son.

We had a rough time of it having had two storms in less than a week. I am in the Southern Uplands and being high tends to catch the worst of the weather, high winds especially.

Helig.


Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #167 on: January 08, 2018, 10:52:13 AM »
I haven't been able to establish a death for Phoebe Roberts, assuming she didn't marry. There looks to be a death for Theophilus Roberts registered in the December quarter of 1967 in Bangor Registration District. He was aged 83 years.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2018, 12:16:21 PM »
Helig,   I have had a look in Roots UK for the death of Phoebe Roberts but because I don't subscribe to it I could only obtain certain info.

I used the date of 1930 for her death and used 10 years either way so it gives an age range of roughly between 60 and 80.
In that range were about 80 Phoebe Roberts'  and there was 1 death recorded in Anglesey and 4 in Caernarfonshire.
The 4 possibilities are as below:-
Born 1858     died    1935
     "     "           "      1926
    "    1861       "       1936
    "        "         "       1939

It's more that likely that she was born in 1858 so the info is out there but without subscribing I can't find out any more, sorry about that

mull

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2018, 03:48:22 PM »
Hi Helig,

Sorry for the delay replying, Windows took over my computer installing a massive update I did not ask for.

Last summer I visited the Llangefni archives but had to cut my visit short. It was the hotest week of the summer and I could not leave my dog in the car in that heat. I hope to revisit Llangefni before Easter.

I am interested in the Jones family living in Tan y Fyrwent, Llandegfan.
1891 census,
John Jones   36
Margret Jones 35
Thomas             9
John                   7
Frederick            5
Alfred                 3

John 7 was my Taid but I am having difficulty tracing his date of birth among all the other John Jones around .
There is a DOB of 19.3.1884 but does not agree with the year of birth in his Seamans Discharge book,1883. There is a possibility he gave this year so that he could get away to sea a year earlier.

Registers at this time are usually Copperplate writing but the Baptism Record for Llandegfan is very untidy and in places hard to read.
23.11.1884 shows
John Theophilus ( Ileg )
Father John Jones, Mother Margret Jones (name then crossed out ) Pheobe ? Roberts

Was John 7 in the 1891 census the same person as John Theophilus baptised on 23.11.1884, and by 1891 had he gone back to live at Tan y Fyrwent.

The only Bodwilog I can trace on Google maps is about 10 miles from Llandegfan.

Thank you again for your work helping me with these questions.

Hope you are enjoying the dry weather in the Uplands. Been 3 days now without any rain, a record for this winter on Mull.


Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2018, 04:54:20 PM »
I was in the Archives this afternoon looking for something so I had a go on the free website for Ancestry and the nearest match I could see for Phoebe Roberts was this:-

Phoebe Roberts Baptised 17th January 1858 at Llandegfan.   She died aged 92 and her death was registered in the Anglesey East Registration District in the Q/E  December 1950    Vol 8A   Pg 6.
Her parents were Hugh and Mary Roberts.

It's only a guess but she could be buried in Llandegfan Cemetery and the obituary may feature in one of the local papers. Sadly Wales Newspapers online may not go to 1950 yet



Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2018, 05:23:23 PM »
Mull, according to the old map I was looking at Bodwilog ( I've seen 3 variations of the spelling)  is in the Parish of Llandegfan and only 0.28 Km from the village.
It's between Beaumaris and the old village of Llandegfan

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2018, 10:59:06 AM »
Hello Mull,

 You queried the identity of John Jones age 7 in the 1891 census. This is a different person from Theophilus Roberts as he is in the 1891 census at Bodwylog, Llandegfan, together with Phoebe Roberts and her family. Her father is the Head of the Household, Hugh Roberts, age 65 and a Farmer.

Phoebe appears to have continued farming there after her parents died.

It appears that Theophilus Roberts was buried in Llandegfan in 1967. Find my Past has the burial for him there.

I would have thought Phoebe Roberts would have been buried in Llandegfan and agree with Hugo's views on this.

I have tried to find details on Grants of Probate for both Phoebe and Theophilus but there haven't come to light as yet.

Helig.

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #173 on: January 11, 2018, 10:48:09 AM »
Mull, I looked back through the previous posts on this Board and found the details of the baptism of Jones Jones on Page 3. It was in Llandegfan on 17 December 1882. I got this information from the parish registers which are on Find my Past. Have a look for this next time you get to search them.

Helig.

Helig

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #174 on: January 11, 2018, 11:19:03 AM »
I found the Probate details for Hugh Roberts, father of Phoebe Roberts. Hugh Roberts died 18 March 1906, it states, "Hugh Roberts of Bodwylog Llandegfan Anglesey Farmer died 18 March 1906. Probate Bangor 25 March 1906 to Phoebe Roberts spinster. Effects 128 16s 6d.

Helig

Hugo

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Re: Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961
« Reply #175 on: Today at 05:34:04 PM »
Mull and Helig,  I hope that you are both ok up there in Scotland and haven't been affected too much by the latest storm.    We seem to have got away with it lightly but it's still cold.

I went to the Archives today to have a look at the 1922  newspapers the Llandudno Advertiser and the North Wales Weekly News as I wanted to see if there was an obituary notice in one of them for Pierce Jones but sadly there was nothing there.

Some time ago we were trying to find Pierce's father's birthplace in Llangystennin and drew a blank so I was surprised when I went into another room and read Kenneth Dibble's book about Penrhynside as all the info is in it.
From memory Mull I think that you have copies of parts of it so you probably know it but I'll post bits for Helig and anyone else's benefit

The book states that John Jones and Elizabeth Jones  ( Pierce's parents  ) were the first occupants of Tan Y Wal and they got married in December 1842.
John's father was also called John Jones and his mother Ann Jones and they lived at Pen Y Parc in Penrhynside.     Ann Jones died in March 1837 aged 79 and although it didn't say when John Jones died it did say that he was born in 1776 in Llandudno and was a miner (probably copper miner)
Now Penrhynside was in Eglwysrhos but John (Pierce's father) was born in Llangystennin but the book did give a clue saying that relatives of the Jones' lived in Ty Llwyd near Gloddaeth Isa farm and the family of John Jones (  Pierce's Grandfather) could have lived there before moving to Pen Y Parc

So we do have some info there and it goes back to 1776 when Pierce's Grandfather was born