Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961

[mull]

If i recall llandegfan John Jones was a Parish Clerk on the Graces wedding certificate, 1915.
The John Jones on emlyn and Rosetta wedding certificate is shown as Verger, 1920.

Would this be the same person ?

[Hugo]

It's more than likely to be the same person Mull.   You'll often find that the occupations of people are described differently in various Census records.
The Anglesey Archives might even have a record of the Church employees going back to John Jones' day.

Now you think that Rosetta Jones may have been you Taid's sister, but there is no conclusive proof of that as her name hasn't appeared on any of the Census records.    Her father was a John Jones but there are so many of that name that the only a birth certificate,  baptism record or something similar will give the link you need to prove her relationship to your family.
I'm sure that it'll be found soon.

[mull]

Still hope to visit in January but i have a few other things to get sorted before then.
Went to see my consultant on Tuesday but he will not give me permission to go over rough ground yet, my bone has not settled together fully. Been a long time since June and I just want to get out walking again. Seeing him again in 6 weeks, hard to believe that will be after Christmas.
Once again thanks to everyone for your help with the search.

[Helig]

I have been busy and unable to search the census returns again today.

It might be helpful to try and identify the birth registration for Rosetta Jones. Her birth certificate would give you all the information you need. Her age given at marriage is 27 years, that was in September 1920. That indicates she was born in 1893. The only birth registrations for a Rosetta Jones in that year are in Pontypridd and Merthyr Tydfil Registration Districts. There are births registered in 1892 but the districts are in Chester, Birmingham, Bicester and Lambeth.

North Wales BMD has a lady by the name of Rosetta Jones whose birth was registered in Hawarden in 1892.

The birth registered in Liverpool in 1895, looked possible but the year isn't right unless it was registered very late.

I will search for the 1901 and 1911 census entries asap.

Helig

[Hugo]

I have been busy and unable to search the census returns again today.

. The only birth registrations for a Rosetta Jones in that year are in Pontypridd and Merthyr Tydfil Registration Districts. There are births registered in 1892 but the districts are in Chester, Birmingham, Bicester and Lambeth.
Helig

Helig, you have already found two of John Snr's relatives in Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil  ( see pg 2 ) so isn't it possible that you have actually found Rosetta and she was born in Merthyr or Pontypool?

[mull]

Not ruling anything out but I can  not find any record of places in South Wales amongst the documents I have except for post cards from John Jones Jnr sent from Barry when he was seagoing. They are addressed to Church House Llandegfan,(english not welsh for some reason and which cottage was it ?) to advise his parents of his arrival and departure.
I can not recall my mother ever mentioning places in South Wales with a conection to our family.
Could Rosetta have been her second christian name and not been recorded on any document. Real mystery this one.

[Hugo]

Mull,  I could be wrong but I suspect that you had relatives in both properties in Llandegfan.   John Jones Snr and your Taid John jnr definitely lived in Tan Y Mynwent  so who was the relative that lived in Tyn Llan on the other side of the Church?

If you look at the Census records for 1891 or 1881 and find John Jones Snr just move the pages on to find out who lives at Tyn Llan.
Luckily both properties have kept their Welsh names throughout so it helps a bit,

As for Rosetta PhilMick has got the right one and her date of birth is C1893  and some of John Snr's  family were living in Merthyr Tydfil so it is a possibility that she was born there, don't rule it out just yet.

[Helig]

I am having another attempt at finding Rosetta Jones. This worries me for a few reasons. The Rosetta Jones born in Pontypridd died there later in 1893 according to a death registration on Ancestry.

I found Rosetta Jones born Merthyr Tydfil in the 1901 census. She is with her family in Merthyr and her father is William Jones, head, married age 40, Coal Miner, born Liverpool Lancs. Rosetta is aged 9 and born Merthyr.

The marriage certificate we have for Rosetta, which we know to be correct, shows her father to be John Jones, occupation: Verger.

The details on the marriage certificate suggest as Mull has mentioned, that Rosetta was the sister of his Taid. There isn't a birth registration for her in the right area, it is a fact that the other children they had were registered in that area. Then she isn't with the family in the 1901 census, just Eliazer b1891. She would only have been 8 in 1901, so you would expect her to be with her parents.

I have found a possible Rosetta Jones in the 1911 census. She is in Bryn Hyfred, Llanfaes, Beaumaris and the servant in the household of Ellen Pritchard. This shows she is aged 18, single, a Kitchenmaid, born Llandegfan, Welsh nationality, speaking both languages. The head of the household is Ellen Pritchard, age 66, single, living on private means born Anglesey. She has 5 servants including Rosetta.

This looks very likely to be her. I cannot find her in the 1901 census, nor anyone like her. 

It makes me wonder if she was an adopted child of the Jones family. I wonder if the parish registers of Llandegfan might shed some light on this.

To be continued.....

Helig

[Helig]

I have found the Probate information for John Jones b1855. He died on 7 January 1930 at Tynyfynwent, Llandegfan, Anglesey. He must have died intestate as Administration went to John Jones, Head Gateman, Mersey Docks and Harbour Board and Frederick Jones, Stud Groom. Effects: £2231 18s 9d.

It would appear that Margaret jones, his wife, predeceased him.

Helig.

[mull]

Thanks for that Heig.

Hope to be able to do my own investigations when I visit North wales in the New Year.
I wonder if the parish records for Llandegfan will turn something up. The Beaumaris find looks interesting.

[Hugo]

Helig,  just to confuse the matter further, just have a look at the photo of an extract from the 1901 Census records.
There is a Rosetta born in Merthyr which you have been able to prove isn't John Snr's daughter but what about the other Rosetta Jones.

She was born in Dowlais in 1894 and was aged 7 in the 1901 Census but that year is only estimated and it may well have been 1893.

On page 3 and your posting of 16th Nov 2016 you have found a link that takes you straight to Dowlais with John Snr's children is it a possibility that she may be the elusive Rosetta?

[Hugo]

Helig,   that Rosetta Jones born Llandegfan that was in the 1911 Census must be Mull's relative but in the record I printed off last night there were only 7 Rosetta Jones' in Anglesey in the 1901 Census and not one matched the one you found.
That one I pointed out last night from Dowlais doesn't seem to be the right one but I'll check when I go to the Conwy Archives.

[Hugo]

I was in the Library today and had a good look on Ancestry and all the UK Census records for 1901 but cannot find Rosetta Jones born Llandegfan on it so it remains a mystery.

[mull]

Thanks Hugo.
Wonder if it was a hospital birth. Perhaps Bangor.

[Helig]

I still cannot make any further progress with Rosetta. My thinking is that she may have been born and baptised under another surname, then adopted by Mull's family. It is possible that both her names were changed. That would explain why we cannot find a birth registration, or entry in the 1901 census, under the name Rosetta Jones.

I have done a search of Enumeration District 16 of the 1901 census for Llandegfan. One family by the name of Boswell had a grand daughter with them by the name of Rose L Boswell. She was aged 6, born Wellington, Shropshire. I wonder if her mother was their daughter, Dora Cordera () who shows she is aged 24, a Gypsy, born Newport Shropshire. They lived at Bryn Teg cottage.

I saw that The Bishop of Bangor lived in Llandegfan in the Bishop's Palace. I had no idea he lived there in those days. He had a staff of eleven.

I will look at the other enumeration districts to see if there is anyone who could fit the details of Rosetta.

Helig.