Author Topic: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821  (Read 4282 times)

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jom

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Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #-1 on: April 03, 2017, 12:11:19 AM »
I have kindly acquired the attached photo of Susannah (Jones) OWEN Headstone.
I believe I have deciphered part of it i.e.
"In loving memory of Susannah the beloved wife of John Owen Gogarth Llandudno who died March 2nd 1875 aged 52 years"
It's the next part with which, I am having some trouble.  I think it reads
"Also Jane the beloved wife of William Moran Chester Road Flint who died (28?) April (1884?) aged 56 years"

Firstly:- Any other suggestions for what is actually written
Secondly:- I know nothing of Jane or William Moran
A Jane Moran died Jun Qtr West Derby Age 56 (Vol 8b Page 202)  and is the only one I can sensibly find.
I can't find a William and Jane Moran anywhere as a couple including marriages.

The only closely related Janes to Susannah I have, are
1. Her sister of whom I know nothing except parents are Moses and Elinor JONES and Jane was born Llangystennin abt 1833
2. Her daughter Elizabeth Jane bn 1863 Gogarth, Llandudno but married John Roberts and died 1948 aged 85!
3. Susannah's husband John Owen had a half sister Jane bn abt 1843 (parents John and Alice) but she married Hugh Lester

My question is IF i have read the headstone correctly... who on earth are Jane and William and why was Jane buried with Susannah or at least put on the same headstone

I would welcome some ideas re this mystery

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« on: April 03, 2017, 07:35:54 AM »
Hi Jom, hope that you are keeping well and I can see that you are still searching on your family tree.    First of all the Conwy Archives have burial indexes of most of the local Cemeteries and Archivists went around these Cemetries and recorded everything that was on the headstone.
I have a coffee morning in Llandudno tomorrow and had planned to go to the Archives anyway so I will look up that headstone and let you know what is on it.

Secondly, Moses and Eleanor Jones,   I remember doing a search and we established that a Moses Jones was buried in Gyffin in the 1800's but I've a vague memory that another Moses Jones was buried in the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwydden which was in the Parish of Llangystennin.
I can't tell you anything at the moment except that:-
2)  Elizabeth Jane bn 1863 Gogarth  Llandudno  means that she was born on the Great Orme.
3)   Hugh Lester was from a well known local family and  if my memory is correct had some connection with the copper mines on the Great Orme

jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 08:31:20 AM »
Hi Hugo.. yes thanks.. keeping well. DO hope you and yours are too. You have a very good memory.  I don't have my research to hand having moved house and in temporary accommodation, so not all is unpacked.  Moses Jones however was I think from Llangystennin in THIS branch BUT another branch has  a Moses JONES and Anne (I think was his wife) in Gyffin as you rightly say. The Gyffin Moses' son Hugh was at Adwy Rhydd. It's Hugh whose grave you found at the baptist cemetery. The 2 Jones families merge after another generation

The look up would be most welcome if convenient but I'm more curious as to who "Jane Moran" was and a theory as to why sharing the same headstone. First to confirm that's what's engraved naturally.

I did suspect the Lester family were prominent/ eminent. I've come across a number of them in my research.  I think Elizabeth's husband was a master mariner if memory serves

Bri Roberts

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 09:40:19 AM »
I knew Max Lester during the sixties.

I have seen his grave up on the Great Orme.

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 09:46:16 AM »
Hi Jom,  I'm glad to hear that you are ok as we are over here.    Tomorrow I'll go to the Archives and copy the inscription from the headstone and I'll also look for the Moses Jones who I believe is buried in the Baptist Cemetery at Glanwydden and see what that inscription says.
Your other Moses Hones (Hugh's father) was buried in Gyffin but I've never been able to find his grave.   I remember finding Hugh's grave in the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwydden and it was like a jungle then but the last time I was there someone had been tidying up the place.
I'll post what I find on here tomorrow but if I see anything else in the meantime then I'll put it on here.

jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 09:49:55 AM »
That'd be wonderful.. thank you.  I know you did a bit of tidying in the cemetery too.  $ $thanx$

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2017, 09:56:18 AM »
You're welcome Jom, I've just read an extract from Chris Draper's book "Llandudno before the hotels"   and at pg 171  he mentions Roger Lester who lived at Bodnant  (Cwlach Street)  and it said that both Roger and his son enjoyed great success in the mines. 
Bodnant is opposite Caersalem Chapel and is a very impressive building even now, but in those days before 1850 it must have been very grand



jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2017, 10:48:06 AM »
I'll have to dig out some papers and my copy of the book and look at it all  ;D $good$

Cambrian

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2017, 01:37:45 PM »
If it helps, a Jane Moran was born in the Flint Sub-District in 1859 when your Jane would have been 31 years old. Possibly a daughter ??

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2017, 04:24:39 PM »
Just a couple of bits of info from that same book:-

Pg 154      Had an Elizabeth Lester of Ty Coch in it saying that she was the only Llandudno investor in the new mines of  Penymynydd, Pyllau and Maesyfachrell and she had a holding of 10% of the stock.      Ty Coch was once a farm and didn't you have another descendant called Edward Owen who lived there?

pg 192   relates to squatters on the morfa
What I found interesting was the first one, Jane Jones widow, was head of the family.  She was born in Rowen and her deceased husband was Joseph Jones.  Her eldest 3 children were born in Gyffin and one of them was called Hugh.
Now Hugh Jones of Ardwy Rhydd was also born in Gyffin and Hugh's father Moses was from Gyffin too and I was wondering if Moses and Joseph could have been brothers?
Just a thought but nothing to back that up

jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 09:22:25 AM »
I'll have to dig out my copy.  Thank you both for the snippets.  Just pulled a 12 hour shift so will look at all your ideas HOPEFULLY at the weekend.
Cheers

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2017, 04:15:55 PM »
One interesting bit of news I heard at the coffee morning today was that Capel Einon in Glanwyddan has been sold and will be converted into a private residence.   The trustee also said that the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwydden will be tidied up which will be a really good thing.
Anyway I called at the Archives after the coffee morning and this is the full inscription on the headstone in the photo at grave No D035:-

In  loving memory of  Susannah  the beloved wife of  John Owen Gogarth Llandudno  who died March 2nd 1875  aged 52 years  also Jane   the beloved wife of William Moran Chester Road Flint  who died April 28th 1880 aged 56 years
        "Thy will be done"

Now the strange thing here is that there is no mention of the death of John Owen or William Moran on this headstone so perhaps they are not buried with their wives?

Now I did look at the Burial Record for Capel Einon and there was a Moses Jones buried there as I thought but I don't think that he was your relative.    The inscription on the grave was written in Welsh but the English translation is as follows:-

In memory of Elizabeth daughter of Moses and Maria Jones  Y Bwlch she died January 4th 1856 aged 3 years.

Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2017, 04:41:51 PM »
In the Burial Index for St Tudno's Church there were many of the Lester Family listed and although I have made a note of the grave numbers I'll just list the names for you:-
Bertha, Dorothy Sara Ann, Elizabeth, Ethel Maude, Hugh, Jack, James, Jane, John Owen, Margaret, Richard, Robert, Roger, Roger Hugh, William and William Herbert.

As your interest was in Hugh Lester I have listed the inscription shown on the headstone at grave No G220:-
In loving memory of Hugh Lester who died January 22nd 1900 aged 64 years, Also Jane the beloved wife of the above who departed this life September 1st 1902 aged 61 years. Also John Owen (Jack) the youngest and beloved son of the above who died September 25th 1902 aged 27 years. Also Roger Hugh the beloved son of the above who died September 30th 1917 aged 46 years.  Also Ethel Maude wife of the above Roger Lester died September 12th 1942.

The photo is of the house in Cwlach Street called Bodnant

Due to lack of time I did not look at No's 1 & 2 on your posting

jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 09:47:46 AM »
Thank you very much, Hugo.  I wasn't too far off track with my effort at transcribing then.  Does seem odd that John and William weren't apparently buried with their wives.

Thank you too for the LESTER info.  I know some of those are Jane and Hugh Lester's kids so I'll check out ancestry etc over the weekend and may be adding a relative or two.  Good to hear that the cemetery will be cared for again.

You're right about that Moses JONES too not being mine, but thanks for thinking of me and taking time to check it all out.  I believe my Moses died Mar 1858 and I have a copy of the burial record.  He was buried 5 Mar 1858 and the record is from the parish church Llangystennin.  Elinor I believe was buried 12 sep 1836 and I have that burial record too.  I don;t know Elinor's maiden name yet.

Thanks again everyone and great photo of Bodnant too.   will do some research at the weekend

Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 03:30:46 PM »
There is a possible death of a William Moran in West Derby RD in the March quarter of 1887, aged 60 years. That puts his year of birth at c1818.

Jane's year of birth would be c1824 if she was aged 56 in 1880.

In Liverpool RD there is a marriage in the September quarter of 1850, William Moran and a Jane Collins. FreeBMD has a total of 8 marriages on that page and it isn't certain that William Moran married Jane Collins.

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There are two other marriages shown in Liverpool RD as follows:

December quarter 1854, William Moran, possibly to Jane Smith.

September quarter 1856, William Moran, query to Jane Duncan.

I cannot find a William and Jane Moran in the census returns.

The name of Moran appears to be of Irish origins, could they have come over to Liverpool as many Irish families did in those days?

Helig.