Author Topic: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821  (Read 15774 times)

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Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2017, 04:46:35 pm »
Jom, if the put "British History" on Google then go into the site and enter Llanrhos in the box and click on.      Then you get two maps but click on O/S Map name 005/nw.
If you look in the top left hand corner you will see the Gasworks.  The entrance of Gasworks Cottage was on the main road ( now called Maesdu Road) but the rest of the building was inside the Gasworks.

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2017, 05:54:56 am »
Great photo Hugo, thank you.  Have you got some good weather or is this an old picture?  Thanks for mentally placing the residence and church for me too.  Many thanks for the OS map tip.  ANZAC Day here tomorrow so not at work.  Will have a little browse


Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2017, 08:34:51 am »
It's an old photo I took in June 2014 when I was finding things out for a member of the Davies family who lives in Australia.

That British  history online is a good way of finding properties on old maps

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2017, 12:15:17 pm »
There is a Family Tree on ancestry which has this line. It shows Moses Jones married Elinor Williams in Glan Conwy on 19 January 1822. Elinor Williams died in 1836 in Llangystenin. It has Elinor born 1795 but no further information on this.

Moses Jones shown as born 28 April 1793, Llangystenin, died 5 March 1858, Llangystenin. Moses was the son of John Jones and Elizabeth.

I don't know if you already have this information, apologies if I have duplicated anything.

Helig.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2017, 02:29:31 pm »
Thanks Helig for all that info you have provided, it's a bit spooky too, like Deja Vu.           I've copied a posting that I did on the 19th December 2016 when we were trying to help Mull with his request about Grace Ellen Jones and it came down to John and Elizabeth Jones from Llangystennin and we had run out of ideas by then

"I went to the Archives in Llandudno to have a look in the Marriage Registers to see if I could find the marriage of John and Elizabeth Jones. The custom was for the marriage to take place in the bride's home town so I had a look in the two Parish Registers for Caerhun, being the Parish for Llanbedr Y Cennin.     I couldn't find any record that would match the couple's details,"



There was one word on the Baptism record that I couldn't understand for Susannah Jones and it was olim.     It is either old Welsh or Latin but it meant the same as unwaith  (Eng. once) so in effect it is the equivalent of nee.
That makes another puzzle because Elen Jones nee Morris had previously been married to David Maurice in 1814 according to Emma but could that have been David Morris which after all is a Welsh name?
Perhaps Elinor Williams was her maiden name?



Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2017, 10:59:57 pm »
Hi Helig, I have seen that tree, thanks but have not found the supporting documentation.  I have now established to my satisfaction that Susannah's mum was Elin or Elinor olim MAURICE or MORRIS.  Olim is latin for formerly so whilst it might be her maiden name, it could similarly be her married name as she was a widow as per her marriage record to Moses.  Emma as you say has a marriage record for Elin WILLIAMS to David MAURICE in 1814, Llaniestyn. I haven't actually established that this is her former husband but seems to be the only record on line that provides the right names ie Elin/ Elinor and surname MAURICE (also spelt MORRIS on baptism record for her son Robert.  I don't know from where Elin originated as she died before any census and have no clues from any other records.

I'll look at Grace JONES on the forum later and check out what was found/said too.  Thanks both

Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2017, 12:32:19 pm »
I had a quick look at the Burial Indexes in the Archives and the one I was thinking of was the grave of John and Alice Owens, presumably John's parents.
I think that you may have Chris Drapers book "Llandudno before the hotels" and there is a good piece in it about the Owens family and the Prince of Wales pub when they were squatters on the Morfa
I did look in all the local Burial Indexes but could find nothing for Moses and Elin Jones or for John Jones Susannah's husband

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2017, 11:09:59 am »
I hadn't realised there is a link between the Jones family we were researching for Mull and Jom's line. It could well be the case that there was a relationship between the Jones families in Llangystenin back then.

There is a death for Moses Jones registered in Conwy Registration District in the March quarter of 1858. Also, a death for Moses Jones, registered in Llanwrst Registration District in the same quarter and year.

The tree on Ancestry shows he was buried in Llangystenin.

Helig

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2017, 11:25:39 am »
It may be nothing but in the 1841 census in the household of Moses Jones, there is a Jane Williams, age 30, born in same county. Jane is shown as a servant. I wonder if there could be a connection with Elinor Williams/Morris/Maurice?

Helig.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2017, 03:03:52 pm »
I hadn't realised there is a link between the Jones family we were researching for Mull and Jom's line. It could well be the case that there was a relationship between the Jones families in Llangystenin back then.

There is a death for Moses Jones registered in Conwy Registration District in the March quarter of 1858. Also, a death for Moses Jones, registered in Llanwrst Registration District in the same quarter and year.

The tree on Ancestry shows he was buried in Llangystenin.

Helig

We don't know if there is any link Helig, it could just be a coincidence with the people having the same name and from the same Parish.   The population of Llangystennin in the early 1800's couldn't have been very high but many seemed to have the same name which makes it frustrating when you are searching for someone.
Moses is probably buried in the Parish Church of Llangystennin but the records I look at only have graves with headstones so perhaps Moses and Elin didn't have a headstone.

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2017, 04:37:27 am »
I hadn't realised there is a link between the Jones family we were researching for Mull and Jom's line. It could well be the case that there was a relationship between the Jones families in Llangystenin back then.

There is a death for Moses Jones registered in Conwy Registration District in the March quarter of 1858. Also, a death for Moses Jones, registered in Llanwrst Registration District in the same quarter and year.

The tree on Ancestry shows he was buried in Llangystenin.

Helig

There are SO many Jones and Owen families .....  Moses died 1858, buried 5 Mar 18158 (Burial record Parish Church llangystenin)

I had a quick look at the Burial Indexes in the Archives and the one I was thinking of was the grave of John and Alice Owens, presumably John's parents.
I think that you may have Chris Drapers book "Llandudno before the hotels" and there is a good piece in it about the Owens family and the Prince of Wales pub when they were squatters on the Morfa
I did look in all the local Burial Indexes but could find nothing for Moses and Elin Jones or for John Jones Susannah's husband
Yes Hugo... John and Alice were John Owen's (Susannah's husband) father and step mother who had the Prince of Wales

The Jane WILLIAMS in the 1841 Census would seem to be too old for the Jane buried with Susannah.  I still haven't come any closer to finding anyone who might fit the bill I'm afraid but haven't stopped looking  ;D

Offline emma silk

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2017, 12:00:22 am »
HI,
I think Jane is Susannah's sister. She was baptized on the 6th March, 1833. She shows on the 1841 and 1851 census living at the Maes in Llangwstennin. Then I think she married William Morgan on 26th March, 1858 in Llangystennin. Her father on the marriage certificate is Moses Jones a quarryman. I then find her living in Flint until she died. If this is correct she then has at least three children and her husband  stayed in Flint after her death and was buried in Flint in 1912.  I'll try and take some photos of the records again and send them to you Jom. I hope this helps.

Offline emma silk

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2017, 12:04:35 am »
I forgot to add, I found her death in Flint on 28th April, 1889 and her burial in Llandudno on 3rd April, 1889.

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2017, 05:27:39 am »
Hi Emma

Thanks for those bits.  Certainly one heck of a coincidence re date if it's not her.  Though the archive transcription did say the name was MORAN and year 1880.....  If you'll pardon the pun  ... these things aren't set in stone in this game D) 

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2017, 07:59:44 am »
HI,
I think Jane is Susannah's sister. She was baptized on the 6th March, 1833. She shows on the 1841 and 1851 census living at the Maes in Llangwstennin. Then I think she married William Morgan on 26th March, 1858 in Llangystennin. Her father on the marriage certificate is Moses Jones a quarryman. I then find her living in Flint until she died. If this is correct she then has at least three children and her husband  stayed in Flint after her death and was buried in Flint in 1912.  I'll try and take some photos of the records again and send them to you Jom. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip. I've found the marriage  record and it also states she was from Maes so fairly conclusive she married William Morgan who was also of Maes at the time
I found her and William in the 1871 and 1881censuses but not found them in the 1861 census as yet.  Will also look for william in1891 to see if he was in Chester Rpad flint