Author Topic: Memorials  (Read 564 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ed jones

  • Member
Memorials
« Reply #-1 on: June 19, 2017, 05:20:41 PM »

It's good to be able to be positive about a local Council. Yesterday Sunday 18th June was the re dedication of my Dad's Memorial on Llandudno Promenade.
This event had been organised by Louise Morris, the Deputy Town Clerk and Councillor Philip Evans. It went off without a hitch ( that I know of ). Short service on the Prom, everyone welcomed by Councillor Evans and the service was conducted by The Reverend John Nice, B.A. Lots of photos taken then everyone invited back to the Council Chamber for a first class spread.
On behalf of the Family I would like to express our sincere gratitude to the Town Council and especially to Louise Morris and Philip Evans for organising this splenid event. $walesflag$









ed jones

  • Member
Re: Ted yr Ogof Memorial
« on: June 19, 2017, 05:25:20 PM »

Apologies, that will teach me to post before reviewing. Title should of course read Ted     NOT TEED.

SteveH

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Teed yr Ogof Memorial
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 06:05:47 PM »
Glad it all went well.

Typandy

  • Member
Missing names on the Llandudno War Memorial
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 02:41:36 PM »
I have spent three years researching the names on the Llandudno War Memorial (Cenotaph) 1922, cross referencing them with the Roll of Honour 1921, and the marble tablets the Memorial Chapel of Holy Trinity Church 1924. The lists are virtually identical though, being later, the Memorial Chapel has a few extra names.

HistoryPoints has over 30 warriors who are unknown (apart from their rank and regiment in most cases) but I have whittled that down to just four men:

Davies, Will (Denbigh) said to be Private, Royal Garrison Artillery
Downes, G J (known to be George) said to be Private, Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Jones, William Thomas said to be Private, Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Roberts, Robert Griffith said to be Sapper, Royal Engineers


But, more importantly, there appear to be several names missing from the War Memorial and from the Memorial Chapel. With the 100th anniversary of the end of the Great War rapidly approaching, it is surely time to get the names added to the memorials. As far as I am aware, the Roll of Honour was only ever printed.

Probable Serious Omissions from War Memorial:

William Henry Davies (also from Memorial Chapel)
Arthur Edward Evans
Leonard Griffiths (also from Llanrhos Parish Memorial)
Thomas John Hughes (also from Memorial Chapel)
John Jones (Merchant Marine) (also from Memorial Chapel)
John Jones (RASC) (also from Memorial Chapel)
Horace Illes Powell (also from Memorial Chapel)
Morgan Scoltock Williams (also from Memorial Chapel, Llanrhos Parish Memorial)

Possible Omissions from War Memorial:

Trevor Austen Manning Davies (by virtue of being in the Memorial Chapel)
Guy Everingham (by virtue of being married to a Llandudno girl and being on her parents' stone in St Tudno's)
James and William Harvey (by virtue of being remembered in the family plot at St. Tudno's)
Robert Thomas Jones (by virtue being a Llandudno lad and having a registered war grave but who was accidentally killed after the war)
Philip Hebdon Lecomber (by virtue of being remembered on a stone in St Tudno's)
Edward John Roberts (by virtue of being remembered in the Memorial Chapel died in July 1922 of heart disease, possibly caused by gassing too late to be regarded as due to war service and not therefore recorded by CWGC. Not too late to get on the Memorial Chapel tablets. A better case for consideration than most I would suggest.

Of course, the criteria to have any of those above added to the Memorial Chapel and/or the War Memorial depends upon whether they would meet the eligibility as laid down by the Llandudno Urban District Council's War Memorial Committee and possibly the Llandudno Parochial Church Council. Ironically, the former committee was chaired by none other than Arthur Hewitt, chairman of the council who was the recruiting officer who sent most of these young men off to meet their fate! Unfortunately, the committee's minutes have been lost. It would appear that the Llandudno list is composed of those with a strong connection to the town including the Parish of Llandudno and part of the Parish of Llanrhos. Not included are those connected to Penrhynside or Deganwy.

If anyone is interested in helping to campaign to get the deserving additional names added to the War Memorial and to the Marble Tablets in the Memorial Chapel, of Holy Trinity Church, please comment.

The detailed biographies can be seen here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Andy






Cambrian

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Memorials
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 05:17:39 PM »
That's very interesting research.  It does seem surprising that any anomalies were not resolved at the time between the end of the Great War and the unveiling of the War Memorial in November 1922 when events were fresh in people's minds.  Possibly some of the men were not actually resident and are commemorated on Memorials elsewhere.  They may have had family members who had a connection with Holy Trinity and thus had their names put on the memorial there. The list of names on Llandudno's War Memorial is  recorded in the Llandudno UDC minutes, together with Arthur Hewitt's address at the unveiling.  Hewitt himself saw service in the Great War. Another factor in all this is that Ecclesiastical Parish boundaries do not coincide with the Council ones.  Thus men from Craig y Don, for example, are on the Memorial in St Paul's Church and may not be on the Holy Trinity one. Llangwstennin and Penrhyn had their own Parish Councils and their fallen should be on the War Memorials at Penrhynside and Llandudno Junction respectively.


Typandy

  • Member
Re: Memorials
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 04:38:17 PM »
Thank you for your insight. The situation does get confusing though it is obvious that the Roll of Honour (1921), the War Memorial (1922) and tablets in Holy Trinity Church (1924) use the same source material. Though the committee minutes appear to be missing, the method of collecting the names may have been for the family et cetera to have completed a card with the basic details. If you look at the Roll of Honour, you will note that there is no single method of completing the names surname and initials, surname and first name, surname and two names et cetera et cetera even Will (Denbigh) Davies. When carving the names out on the later memorials, then a little more discipline had to be applied. It would seem likely that the diversity of styles on the Roll of Honour is because they were copied directly from the submissions.

My mother researched a village war memorial in Lincolnshire some 30 years ago not easy in those days though there were family members still living and she discovered three unnamed warriors, say 10%. My sister researched a tiny village in Somerset and found a missing warrior. The respective names have since been added to the memorials.

I estimate that there are 16 possible candidates though I would dismiss four because they are memorials at St. Tudno's with only a family sentimental connection with the town. Another I would probably dismiss because his inclusion in the Memorial Chapel possibly post-war influenced by parents. It rather depends when they moved here and this is being researched. Another was killed accidentally after the war but his grave is registered with the CWGC. So that leaves about 10 who should seriously be considered. It would appear that in most cases, the families had moved on.

Bri Roberts

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Memorials
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 04:50:10 PM »
Further to the above, I have one ancestor who died in the Great War and lived in Jubilee Street but is remembered on the memorial at All Saints Church in Deganwy.



Typandy

  • Member
Re: Memorials
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 09:44:37 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Further to the above, I have one ancestor who died in the Great War and lived in Jubilee Street but is remembered on the memorial at All Saints Church in Deganwy.
Thank you. That's because in 1920, Jubilee Street was in the parish of Llanrhos. The boundary with the parish of Llandudno was later moved to run along the railway lines and Vaughan Street. The Memorial in All Sts' Church Deganwy is in two parts: Deganwy and Llanrhos Parish less Deganwy. Over 50 names are on the Llandudno Memorials as well as the Llanrhos Memorial in All Saints'.

Please could you check your ancestor's history here and help me update it if there are any material facts to be added or amended. Thank you. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

mull

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Memorials
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 11:58:51 AM »
Hi Typandy,
Added some information on Sgt John Evan Williams 20346.

Typandy

  • Member
Re: Memorials
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 10:24:54 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi Typandy,
Added some information on Sgt John Evan Williams 20346.
thank you. I have updated the narrative.

Had John Williams any previous service experience? To join up in 1914 and to disembark as a serjeant the following year is pretty good going.