Author Topic: Thomas Richard EVANS  (Read 4759 times)

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Helig

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2017, 11:15:20 AM »
I think the Edward Evans, stationer, went on to live in Maelgwyn Road, Llandudno.

There is an entry in the 1901 census for an Edward Evans, age 5, born Llandudno. The household is as follows:

14 Tyn y Coed Isa, Llandudno.

Jane Evans, widow, age 64, born Denbigh, Gwtherin.
Edward Evans, age 5, Boarder, born Llandudno.
Dorothy Sutherland, age 4, Boarder, born Liverpool.

Helig

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2017, 04:07:58 PM »
I was in the Conwy Archives today and had a look at the Llandudno Baptism Register for the years 1890 to 1904  but could not see any entry for Thomas Richard or Edward Evans in it so in effect I am giving up the search for them as I have now looked at all the local Baptism records and found no trace of either of them.

What I did find in the Llandudno Baptism record was an entry at No 699 on the 11th April 1900, the record gave the following details:-
Dafydd,  son of Ann Evans  address 14 Tyn Y Coed Terrace.
There was no entry for the father's name and no entry of "illegitimate" against Dafydd's name.

Now the previous posting of Helig has shown an address of 14 Tyn Y Coed Isa  Llandudno and this is the same address as the one in the Baptism record so it made me wonder.   Has Ann had another illegitimate child called Dafydd and if so what has happened to Dafydd Evans?

Helig

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2017, 10:46:14 AM »
Hello Hugo,

I have had another look at that 1901 census and the address is Tyn y Coed Terrace. It has been abbreviated to Terr and the writing isn't clear. When I first looked at it I thought it was Tyn y Coed Isa.

This was where there was an Edward Evans, Boarder, age 5. The head of the household was Jane Evans, age 64, and a widow. It is possible the Ann Evans who had Dafydd baptised in 1900 was a different Ann Evans to the one in this post. She could be related to Jane perhaps. It also gives rise to the question of where Dafydd was in the 1901 census.

In the 1901 census the entry after 14 Tyn y Coed Terr, was Fern Bank, Tyn y coed Road.

It still hasn't been possible to find Thomas Richard Evans in the 1901 census.

Helig

Helig

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2017, 10:55:55 AM »
The only birth registration I could find for 1899-1900 for Dafydd Evans was in Bangor RD. This was of a Dafydd Morris Evans in the March quarter of 1900.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2017, 12:02:46 PM »
Thanks Helig for that info,   We do have a precedent for a case like this and it was with DownUnder.     The Grandfather was baptised and the address was given as the G G Grandparents house, although his G Grandmother was  not living there

But where was Dafydd in the 1901 Census?   We know where he was born (either Bangor or Llandudno) and the year he was born so where was he in the 1901 Census?

There is a possibility of an infant death here and that may explain why Dafydd did not go to Penrhynside when Ann married Frederick Parry.

It's another mystery but with these Census records they are only as good as the information that has been put in to them and it is possible that Thomas Richard Evans may appear in the records just as Thomas Evans.   More questions than answers at present I'm afraid

Helig

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2017, 12:04:20 PM »
It is possible that Dafydd Evans has been recorded as David Evans in some of the registers. There is a death registered in Conwy RD in the June quarter of 1900 for David Evans, age 0. Also, he could have been baptised some years after he was born.

I have searched for Thomas Evans in the 1901 to no avail either. Find my Past has the National School Admissions Registers and Logbooks for Llandudno. There are many entries for Thomas Evans and so far I cannot find our Thomas in them.

Helig


Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2017, 01:11:16 PM »
Helig, I think that you may be on to something with your theory about the name.   Census and Baptism records do not always show the correct names so Dafydd could have been written in its  English name of David.

Looking back at my notes, the Baptism in the name of Dafydd was made on the 11th April 1900 and the death of David Evans
was recorded in the Quarter ended 30th June 1900 so it is possible that they are the same person.
When children were born in those days and the doctors knew that the child wouldn't survive for long then it was the practise to have the child Baptised as soon as possible.




Cambrian

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2017, 02:29:08 PM »
Yes, names are a problem sometimes.  I have mentioned before on the Forum a relative of mine who was variously called Elin, Ellen and Eleanor in official documents!  On the current subject, Ken Dibble sometimes refers to our Ann as "Ann" and sometimes as "Anne".  The other difficulty is that sometimes people were not too literate and the Registrar would write down the phonetic version of the person's address rather than rely on something written handed to him.


Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2017, 02:32:37 PM »
They did that with my name too!       :(

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2017, 08:48:04 AM »
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It is possible that Dafydd Evans has been recorded as David Evans in some of the registers. There is a death registered in Conwy RD in the June quarter of 1900 for David Evans, age 0. Also, he could have been baptised some years after he was born.

I have searched for Thomas Evans in the 1901 to no avail either. Find my Past has the National School Admissions Registers and Logbooks for Llandudno. There are many entries for Thomas Evans and so far I cannot find our Thomas in them.

Helig

I've just had a look at Roots UK and there was a birth of David Evans who was registered in the Conwy District in the quarter ended 31st March 1900.   If the name of Dafydd was recorded on his birth certificate as David then this is probably the same person

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
I was in the Conwy Archives today looking for any info on Dafydd/David Evans.     They do not have the Birth Registers there, so presumably those records will be at the Register for BMD's in the Town Hall  Llandudno.

I did however look at the Burial Records and I've copied what was in the record:-
No 581    David Evans     14 Tyn Y Coed Terrace   buried April 15th 1900    aged 2 months
So sad reading about infant deaths.

I looked at the St Tudno and St Hilary Llanrhos Burial Indexes but there was no mention of a grave for David Evans.    These indexes only list graves with headstones and people buried in the Church Cemetery rather than the municipal ones.     He lived his short life on the Great Orme and would in all probability been buried at St Tudno's on the Great Orme

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2017, 12:24:10 PM »
I had a walk in Penrhynside this morning and took some photos of Mount Pleasant Terrace and No 3  is near the steep lane.    The parking in Penrhynside is awful and can't have improved since Thomas Richard was a boy living there

mull

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2017, 09:30:14 AM »
Think Ivor Shields lived in the 2nd house in.

Hugo

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2017, 01:28:38 PM »
Another couple of photos, the first is of No 3 and the second is of No's  4,3, 2  and 1.       Ivor Shields house would be on the right of No3

From the outside, the cottages look like two up and two down so it must have been cramped when Frederick and Ann and all the others were living there

Jelly Baby

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Re: Thomas Richard EVANS
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2017, 08:07:33 AM »
Hello friends!
We are back, but not in the best of health! Jack’s skin cancers took ages to heal (but thankfully they have now!) and the change of temps between Queensland and Tassie were a heck of a shock to the system. But we are hanging on like barnacles and firmly believing that this Winter has got to end soon… hasn’t it??? They keep saying Australia has had one of the warmest Winters on record but I think they forgot about us down here! Remember ‘global warming’ – we wish!!!
I am still waiting on Edward’s birth certificate and dreading yet another to add to my collection of “not the right one!” I got his DOB from the fact that on his Death cert (attached), it gave his age as 21. As he was born in June, I worked on 1917 as being his 21st year and worked back from there to 1896. Fortunately, there was only ONE entry for an Edward Evans in the June Qtr of 1896, so I am keeping everything crossed pending its arrival! You see, I should have listened to Fred, who had given young Edward’s age as 15 in the 1911 census! I shall post it on here asap!
Hugo: The photos were fabulous! Such memories. And yes, Mull, Ivor Shields did live in #2. As for ‘cramped quarters’, it certainly was! I can recall sleeping in a bed with my Mum and 2 sisters while my brother’s cot was next to the wall. And NO running hot water! And an outside dunny. In Winter, it was dire! And no light in the outside dunny, so you could only read ‘the news’ (aka, the toilet paper!) during daylight! But I wouldn’t have swapped it for quids! Happy days!
<Certificates can be costly if you pick the wrong one> – you’re not wrong! I’ve got quite a collection of “wrong ‘uns” now! But at least for every wrong one, it’s one step closer to the right one!
<Fred and Ann Parry were your mother's foster parents, I was wondering if you have tried or wanted to trace your mother's biological parents> – yes, we did, but sadly only found her Mother after her death! (Her Mother’s death, that is!) She’d had a new family by then and they were afraid of tarnishing their Mum’s reputation, so we didn’t impose any further on them. It happens like that sometimes. As it was, my Mum always looked on Ann Parry as her mother and when she had lost all other memories to her Dementia, she always retained Penrhynside as her home! In fact, she was always known as “Ann Parry’s dtr”, hence why we feel closer to them than the ‘real McCoys’!
Thanks for looking thru all those baptism records for me! I had a look in Llandudno Library on one of my visits (probably last century now!) and got myself stumped for many years because I thought the Frederick Parry in there was the son of David Parry, the tailor, and it wasn’t the right Fred after all! So it just goes to prove my point that Welsh genealogy is the hardest on the planet!! But interesting about <Dafydd, son of Ann Evans  address 14 Tyn Y Coed Terrace> It certainly makes you wonder, doesn’t it. But, as you will see from my response to Helig, I’m not yet happy with Jane Evans being Edward’s Nain (and therefore Ann’s Mother):
Helig: Regarding the 1901 Census. I also wondered if that might be ‘Uncle Ted’ but felt that it probably wasn’t. Two reasons for this:
1.   Where was his brother Thomas Richard? If Ted was there, I’d have expected Tom to be there too, as he’d have only been about 7 himself.
2.   On Fred and Ann's marriage cert of 1903, it gives her Father's name as Edward but does NOT say he was 'deceased' (as it does for Fred's Father) So Grandad Edward SHOULD have been alive in 1901 and his wife would not have been a Widow?
I sometimes wonder if I get too ‘smart’ for this as you can so easily over-think things. Maybe they had separated and she listed herself as a ‘widow’ for the sake of decency? But it still doesn’t tell me where Tom was. But the hint about sending away for Tom and Jane’s marriage cert is a good one – consider it done!
*BTW, has anyone else dearly missed that “check” that the ONS (sorry, it's the Passport Office now, isn't it!)that  used to offer a check that you were getting the right certificate? You used to be able to specify ‘definite’ info (such as the Mother’s name) and if the certificate you ordered didn’t agree with your check, you only got charged 3 pounds, instead of 7 – wish they still had that available, it would have saved me a fair bit! (And I don’t just mean the difference between the 7 quid and the now 9.25!)
The other thing about Census records, etc, is that you have to be very careful with whoever transcribes them. I used to transcribe for Free BMD and they have very strict rules about what you can put down. But with some transcribers, they sometimes have to guess the poor writing - and some of the results can be hilarious! Which is why it is so good to be able to see the actual record yourself and decide what a word really was. The trouble is, first you have to find the record - not easy if the surname has been wrongly transcribed to start with! Took me ages to find my Grandfather, Hodgson Sutcliffe, who'd been transcribed as Tutcliffe! This little icon reminds me of what transcribing can be like:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Anyway, I'm attaching 3 documents.
1. Edward Evans' Death certificate - even though he was killed in action in Belgium, they still issued Death certs for people as if they'd died at home.
2. Edward Evans' 'death card' - which actually gives his age as 22
3. Fred and Ann's marriage certificate. Although I have labelled it 'possible', I am pretty satisfied it is the correct one! As you can see, Fred's Father is listed as 'deceased' but Ann's isn't.
That's all for now - but hopefully by Tuesday, Edward's birth cert will arrive! Fingers crossed!