Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: Helig on June 08, 2017, 11:22:54 am
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I wondered whether anyone else on this Board has been researching the family of Isaac Jones, bc1858, Llandudno and Ann Owen, bc1859, Conwy.
At the moment I am trying to trace their children and would welcome hearing from anyone else who knows this family line. I have them in the census returns up to 1911. They seem to have used a variety of names for their children which is making it harder to track them. I am stuck with Polly, bc1884, shown in the census as Polly but no birth registration in that name for her can be found.
Helig.
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Helig, I've not come across the family before but as you have found them in the 1911 Census do you know where they were living at that time?
Also if you know where "Polly" was born and when then it could help to trace her on the Baptism registers.
Just a thought Helig and nothing to back it up but you'll be familiar with the story of Isaac and Miriam Jones who lived in a cave on the West Shore side of the Great Orme.
Isaac Jones was from Amlwch and your Isaac is the right age to be his son. It's possible from the 15 or so children that they had in the cave that a son would have been called Isaac but could that Isaac be the one you are researching?
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I'm not researching the family but have found them on the 1891 Census living at 3 Tudno Street, Llandudno and Polly is actually Mary C Jones born Llandudno 1884 on this Census. I have had two Polly's on my tree who's names turned out to be Mary, it can be very confusing at times. I did notice Polly/Mary wasn't on the 1911 Census with her family so she could have left home or married, so perhaps you will find it easier now you have her name to trace her, ££$
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That will be a good help for Helig. $good$
It's strange how the name Margaret gets changed to something else. I've got a few in my family tree and they are down as Maggie, Peg and Peggy so no wonder Helig came up against a brick wall with Polly.
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Thank you Hugo and Meleri.
The family seem to have lived at 3 Tudno Street for years. They are living there in the 1911 census, plus prior to that in the 1901, when the house was called Ashton Hayes. In the 1881 census, Isaac and his wife, plus one child, are living at 3 Tudno Street with his father, David Jones. David was a widower, age 54, a Stone Cutter and born Denbigh.
Isaac Jones married Ann Owen in 1878.
Thank you for the information on Polly. I hadn't picked that up.
My interest is with one of their daughters, Edith born 1892.
Helig.
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Just as a matter of interest Helig, have you found out what you want about Edith?
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Hello Hugo,
I knew Edith as she used to visit us frequently in years gone by. There was a close family link. I have most of the information on her but am unsure of the year of her death for certain. It was about the early 1970s or thereabouts. The Family Trees on Ancestry have it as 1974 but I am doubtful about that. She is buried in St Tudno's, I am not sure where exactly.
Helig.
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Helig, as a matter of interest, if Edith married what was her surname?
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Edith married Vincent Langham in Chorlton, Manchester 1918. Vincent passed away 1939 Registered in Conway District age 43 years. Edith then married Harry A Prior 1943 Registered in Conway District. There is a death for Edith May Prior 1972 Registered in Conwy District it has her DOB 6/12/1893.
On the National Schools Admissions register for St George's School Llandudno there is an Edith Jones DOB 29/11/1894 Father Issac Jones Tudno Street. Edith's last attendance was 1/5/1907 due to an epidemic and then over age.
The two dates of birth don't correspond but that could be due to an error. Sorry I can't give you more definite information, the only way to be sure it is the same Edith is to buy the Certificates.
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That's a really good find Meleri and it should help Helig with his research. I've never seen them but I believe that some school records are held at the Conwy Archives and Edith may feature in them.
I would imagine from her date of death that she is buried in the Municipal part of the Cemetery and I don't think that the Archives have those burial records
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That's a shame Hugo :( Edith's second husband Harry A Prior passed away 1964 Registered Conway district, so she could be buried with him?
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I think that the Crematorium in Colwyn Bay has the info on the Municipal Graves and they may be able to help.
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Meleri has the marriage details for Edith exactly right. She was Edith Prior when she died. I saw the 1972 death but for reasons unknown, all the family trees on Ancestry show her year of death as 1974.
I didn't know Edith attended St George's School.
From what I remember Edith was buried by herself as there was talk of a spare plot available in with her. Her son used to say he had four plots spare in St Tudno's but these were all sharing with someone! I think her second husband was cremated.
Helig
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Helig,
I have been on Ancestry to have a look and out of the seven trees with Edith's family, not one of them has proof of a link to her death from the death index. This happens quite often when someone makes a guess and like sheep other people follow by copying the wrong information :(
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I went to the Conwy Archives this afternoon and had a look at some records there. There were no entries in the Burial Index for St Tudno's for Isaac Jones or Edith May Prior. These indexes list the headstones on graves in the old Church and I suspect that they are both buried in the Council owned part of the Cemetery. The Council records may be available at the Colwyn Bay Crematorium.
I then looked at the 1972 copies of the Llandudno Advertiser and found an obituary notice for Edith Prior in the Friday May 26th 1972 edition.
I've copied some of the obituary as follows:-
" A member of an old Llandudno family Mrs Edith Prior formerly of Florence House Court Street Llandudno died last Friday at Plas Y Dre elderly peoples home Gloddaeth Avenue.
Aged 80 Mrs Prior was born in the town, For some years her home was 3 Tudno Street. She resided in London for some years returning here 12 years ago. A widow she is survived by a son Mr W P Langham, a daughter Mr S Burt ( there must have been a printing error there}
4 Grandchildren, two Great Grandchildren and a sister.
The funeral was on Tuesday, interment being at the Great Orme Cemetery.
Then it went on about the many floral tributes that were made, too many for me to copy.
The funeral arrangements were by T Owen & son 13 Bodhyfryd Road Llandudno
I then went and took some photos of 3 Tudno St and Florence House Court Street. Florence House is on the corner of Court Street and Vadre Lane and if I'm correct was the first Police Station in Llandudno
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Excellent detective work Hugo and really good photo's too. Helig, Now that you know who the Funeral Director was he will have the plot number for the grave in his records. I have found many of my Ancestors graves by contacting the Funeral Director, they are usually very helpful.
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Hugo - well done. I wonder if W P Langham was Bill Langham. He lived in Maelgwyn Road and was for many years the Council's Transport Manager.
Florence House, incidentally, was Llandudno's first police station and later included a small court room. It closed in 1915 when the Oxford Road station was opened. An attractive design compared with its 21st century replacement!
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On reflection, I now wish that I would have made a list of the people who made the floral tributes at the funeral as there were many names there that could help Helig with his research.
At least I know exactly where to find the article now, if I need to go back again.
One name I can remember though is S Burt from the USA so perhaps Edith's daughter was living over there in the USA.
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Thank you very much for this information and the lovely photos Hugo. I didn't attend Edith's funeral as we had moved away from Llandudno by then. We now know for sure that Edith died in 1972.
Cambrian is correct in that Edith's son was Bill Langham who lived in Maelgwyn Road for some years. Edith had a daughter, Sheila, who married a GI and moved to the USA. She lived outside Boston, Mass. There was another member of this family and I don't know how he fits in exactly. I thought he was a half brother to Bill and Sheila. He was called Dink but I think his name was David. He lived with his wife along Maesdu. Has anyone heard of him?
Helig
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I have found Sheila's marriage to her GI Clement G Burt registered in Conway 1945.
Hugo you are right about the names of people who make floral tributes being helpful in research perhaps Dink/David was mentioned in the list?
Also The North Wales Weekly News used to give wonderful descriptions of who attended weddings plus addresses etc, very helpful indeed.
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I should have made a note of each one as they may have meant something to Helig, I was pushed for time but I'll be going back there again sometime.
The Llandudno Advertiser in those days only had about 12 pages but they were big and the Archives don't take photocopies of them but usually they photograph them and send an e-mail to me.
There may also be another way of tracing Dink/David and that is through the Street Indexes and I know that they have one in the Archives for the early 60's and that could help
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Thank you both once again.
I think Dink/David was married to Jenny and they lived in a flat on the West Shore end of Maesdu Road if my memory serves me right. I recall going there in the 1960s with Bill Langham. Dink was a bit younger then Bill I should think. Bill was born 1919. Edith used to talk about Dink and his family but I could never make out the relationship and didn't like to ask. It could be he was the son of one of her siblings.
Helig.
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I never knew that Edith was from an old Llandudno family. She had lived in London, Peckham I believe, with her second husband Harry Prior. She had numerous siblings as follows:
Alice Ann Jones b1879
Jane Jones bc1881 (query known as Jenny)
David Owen Jones b1882
Mary C Jones (Polly) born 1884
William J Jones b1886
Ellen Jones b1887
Gladys Jones b1888
Isaac Jones b1889
Gertrude Jones b1890
Henry Jones b1893. (May have been Thomas Henry)
They were all born Llandudno. I think there must be many descendants living in the town now.
Helig.
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I haven't been to the Archives recently as the weather has been so good but I did go today and looked again at the copy of the Llandudno Advertiser.
I've copied the floral tributes from the paper and Dink's real name is David but because his surname was not stated I couldn't confirm from the 1969 Street Index where exactly he lived.
The names have been copied exactly as they appear in the paper and I think that some may have been spelt incorrectly:-
Floral Tributes from
Bill and Paula, Sheila, Clem and children ( Boston USA ) David Jenny and Michael, Ann and Gareth, Gertie and family (London) Flossie and Al (London) Glyn Betty Jean and Ieuan, John, Meirion and family, Gwen Eric Mary Marjorie and Keth, Nancy Charlie Shirley and Peter, Flo and family, Mr and Mrs Burton, Like Grove, Jean and Jack Crapp and boys, Pat Lalita and Vaughan, Mr and Mrs Williams and family, Mr and Mrs John Burt (Boston USA ), Harry Norah and family, Mrs Harphai.
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Hello Hugo,
Thank you for sending this information. You are lucky to have had good weather, not great here for over 10 days now.
There are one or two strange things about the names mentioned in the floral tributes, I won't go into details. Dink is shown in the David, Jenny and Michael names. Many of the tributes seem to be from her siblings, many are from my family. I recognise Mr and Mrs Burton, Lime Grove. Mrs Burton was Lisa, my grandmother's best friend. Lisa and Edith Jones used to visit my grandmother every week.
I wonder whether Dink was the son of one of Edith's siblings. I thought the relationship was described as half brother to her son, William Langham but am not certain about it. I should have asked when they were alive., typical.
I can use the names to try and track Edith's family.
Helig.