Three Towns Forum

The Local => Times Past => Topic started by: Nantyglyn72 on August 22, 2015, 04:28:51 pm

Title: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Nantyglyn72 on August 22, 2015, 04:28:51 pm
Hello Everyone

I'm a local born in Colwyn Bay and now living in Llanrhos ; and new to this website. I have only just discovered the site and am really impressed by the depth of information and knowledge.

I have a question I would like to ask.

When researching my family history it is apparent from gravestones in llangwstennin and census of the period aroynd the start of the last century that several ancestors ran the Red Lion public house in Bryn Pydew.

I have struggled to find a photograph of this public house and very little information such as when it was established and when it closed etc

Any photos and information would be very much appreciated.

Regards

Christian
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: SteveH on August 22, 2015, 04:37:00 pm
Hello and welcome,
Not what you asked for but I found this link to the Red Lion... ££$

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/trying_to_find/thread/499419 (http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/trying_to_find/thread/499419)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on August 22, 2015, 06:21:03 pm
In the 19th century the house was run as a pub called The Red Lion.  It is a now a private house called Islwyn and is in Ffordd Y pentre Bryn Pydew.
It's right in the centre of Bryn Pydew and is directly opposite these properties ( sorry but I haven't got a photo of Islwyn)   In that street was a school, a chapel and a shop and another pub called the Swan was around the corner but they are all closed now.

From memory, I think that Islwyn is behind the car on the right in the second photo.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Nantyglyn72 on August 22, 2015, 07:50:01 pm
Thank you very much both, very helpful. Much appreciated
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: spotty dog on August 22, 2015, 08:43:59 pm
The Old Swan
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: spotty dog on August 22, 2015, 08:48:53 pm
Islwyn now owned by the Powel family
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on August 23, 2015, 01:05:31 pm
Nantyglyn72,   there are a number of people on the forum who my have the info you are looking for but I can't find out anything on Google that will give you the answers you are looking for.
At least you know that the former Red Lion is now a private house called Islwyn and where exactly it is in the village.
If I was you, , I would call at the property and introduce myself and tell the owners what you are hoping to find.  I'm sure that they would be interested to hear your story too.
Bryn Pydew is in the Parish of Llangystennin  for your searches and the Conwy Archives in Lloyd Street Llandudno ( next to the lifeboat house ) will have a lot of info for you to browse over.
They have a burial index for Llangystennin Church and all the people buried there that have headstones on their graves are listed in the book.
The people are listed alphabetically so are easy to find and the Archives is open to the public Monday to Thursday.
Good luck with your searches   $good$
The photo is of the entrance to Ffordd Y Pentre where Islwyn is and the cottage is the Swan which was once a pub, then a shop and post office
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Nantyglyn72 on August 23, 2015, 08:56:28 pm
Thanks all
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 27, 2015, 08:52:30 pm
Swan which was once a pub, then a shop and post office

Old Swan was just a house for decades after being some sort of place with ale. I don't think it was ever a shop as such. 

At least from the 60s and possibly a lot longer, the shop was the second building from the left in your picture above the one of Old Swan. I think the shop started to struggle when people began shopping at supermarkets. It was run down to just the Post Office and I think the newspapers. 

The Wilson family in Old Swan took this over after Mrs Powell (not the same Powell family as mentioned in regards to Islwyn) packed in.  I'd guess this change occurred mid to later 80s.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 27, 2015, 10:33:23 pm
According to Chris Draper in his book "Walks from Llandudno"   the old Swan was a public house before becoming a shop .  " It continues to
provide a basic Post Office service for the village and a small notice on the window indicates if it is open for business" according to the author.
The book was first published in 1999 but obviously that facility must have closed after that date

Karenza, the large painted house was Mister Evans' shop and he sold a variety of goods, perhaps the Swan continued it's business after Mr Evans' shop closed?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 27, 2015, 10:58:57 pm
I think he has got that wrong.  My family owned Old Swan between about 1966 and 1973 give or take a year.  The house was not a shop when they bought it, nor was it a shop when they sold it to the Wilsons.

---
One other bit of info.  If you went through the drive a few yards and pushed the chippings back, you could find part of an old tiled floor. If I remember correctly, there was supposed to have been a bakery there at some point in time. I've not seen a picture of this and can't work out how the road would have run.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 28, 2015, 01:45:29 am
I've  managed to dig out a couple of old slides.  Not brilliant but they will do. These would have been taken around 1967.

This shows the village shop and Post Office:
(http://jonbanjo.com/3tpic/shop.jpg)

This is Old Swan
(http://jonbanjo.com/3tpic/swan.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2015, 10:15:06 am
Thanks very much for posting those photos, especially the one of the shop, school and Chapel.   Although I must have seen them when I was younger I had forgotten what the school and Chapel looked like.
I've tried to find out about the history of Bryn Pydew some time ago but can't find out anything on line so those photos help a lot.
With regard to what you have said about the Old Swan I don't know the history of the place but I have a very vague memory of something like a Post Office notice being in the window.    This would be around 1978 when I was interested in buying Granllyn the 18th Century cottage directly across the road to the Old Swan.
With regard to Chris Draper, the local author and historian, I would be extremely surprised if his facts were wrong.   From reading  six of his books on local history and speaking to him in Llandudno Library he seems a stickler for details. 
I know some historians have an artistic license to "manipulate" history but I can't say one way or another whether it happened with the Old Swan.
I do have a friend who is even older than me and has lived in Pydew all his life so I'll ask him when I go to a coffee morning next Tuesday.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 28, 2015, 10:47:14 am
I'll be interested to learn what your friend remembers.

We moved to Pydew  from Shropshire so don't have any family memories of the village prior to say 66/67.

We never really found anything out about Old Swan as a (presumably parlour) pub.  Sort of everyone know it (and Islwyn/Red Lion) was once a pub but no real indication of when or memories of anyone drinking there.  Sticking with beer a second, something in the back of my mind suggests beer may have been brewed at Bwlch Farm at some point...

My own memory is at odds with your 1978 date. We moved a second time round to Pydew in that year and I still feel that the shop/post office in the photo I gave was still open then.  As I indicated before, I thought that change happened some time after Mr Powell died.  But memory can be a funny thing...
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 28, 2015, 12:05:04 pm
Karenza, the large painted house was Mister Evans' shop and he sold a variety of goods, perhaps the Swan continued it's business after Mr Evans' shop closed?

Sorry, I'd missed to answer this. 

No.  It was owned by a Powell family and was a shop at least selling groceries and sweets, etc. when I first moved to Pydew. My understanding is that these Powells were relatively new to the village and I do remember references to prior owners.  I'd have guessed at Hughes but I'd feel sure you are right with Evans.  I'm not sure what I'd be guessing at in terms of "relatively new".  5-10 years?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2015, 12:22:03 pm
It would be nice to find out a bit of the history of the Swan and also Bryn Pydew.   It's a place I've liked for a long time and that's why I wanted to buy Granllyn but there were a number of factors that made me change my mind.
I have two distant relatives living in the village who were born and bred there but sadly I don't see them often or otherwise I could ask them too.
Bryn Pydew has changed a lot over the years but once it was a very close community and those people would be able to tell you every thing.
It was about 1978 when I visited Granllyn but with my job I travelled in that area for nearly 40 years so I can't be definite when or even if I saw that notice in the window but if it did happen like Chris Draper has said then it must have been in the latter part of the 20th century.

Didn't the Powell's also live at Islwyn  (Red Lion) at one time?

I hope that my Pydew friend can tell me the answer on Tuesday
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 28, 2015, 12:44:18 pm
With regard to Chris Draper, the local author and historian, I would be extremely surprised if his facts were wrong.   From reading  six of his books on local history and speaking to him in Llandudno Library he seems a stickler for details. 

Hugo, in his book ‘Walks from Llandudno’, Chris Draper acknowledges the help and support of Enid Powell of Bryn Pydew, Glenda Watson ex Bryn Pydew, John and Dorothy Owen of Bryn Pydew.

Maybe, one of his contributors made an error and not Mr Draper.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 28, 2015, 12:52:14 pm
Yes, Pydew has changed.  I think when we first moved there, it was still a bit of an odd place to be.  These days, I gather it is "desirable".

I think if I had my own time back, I'd go back to my first time round Pydew but wouldn't so much want to be in the modern version.  I've changed as I've got older though and am far convinced I anything like appreciated what we had back then - maybe it's taken a head now in its 50s to think this way...

Yes, there was a close community.  They had concerts in the village hall, I remember seeing Hogiaur Wyddfa there. And there was Pydew Rovers...

Islwyn in my early time was owned by a Mrs Jones. She was the mother of Mrs Powell, Maelgwyn Farm.  They are not related to the Powells who had the shop.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2015, 02:08:13 pm
With regard to Chris Draper, the local author and historian, I would be extremely surprised if his facts were wrong.   From reading  six of his books on local history and speaking to him in Llandudno Library he seems a stickler for details. 

Hugo, in his book ‘Walks from Llandudno’, Chris Draper acknowledges the help and support of Enid Powell of Bryn Pydew, Glenda Watson ex Bryn Pydew, John and Dorothy Owen of Bryn Pydew.

Maybe, one of his contributors made an error and not Mr Draper.

Thanks Bri, that is a possibility and it'll be interesting if anyone can throw some info on the matter.    I believe that you belong to the  Deganwy History Society,  do you know if they have anything about Bryn Pydew on their site?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 28, 2015, 06:06:05 pm
Not to my knowledge, Hugo, but please feel free to peruse the site yourself.

http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/ (http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/)

BTW, you will find my ancestors mentioned under the "Deserving Poor" of Eglwys Rhos.

Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2015, 11:02:28 pm
Thanks very much Bri,  it's a fantastic web site and I'll enjoy looking through it.    $good$

I'll have a look for your ancestors under the "Deserving Poor"     :o    and I'll look for mine there too.    There is a ruin of an old cottage on the Vadre where one of my ancestors lived so I'll look for that too
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 29, 2015, 08:34:32 am
Hugo, if the former home of one of your ancestors on the Vardre was called something like Fatw then you may wish to consider contacting the site’s webmaster because Gwyn has already researched that particular property and has a collection of photographs and/or paintings of the house.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2015, 10:42:47 am
Thanks Bri,  I'll have a look at that site.  I don't know the name of the property but all that remains of it now are the foundations.    If you are looking at the Vadre from the bowling green area the ruins are on the skyline in one of the dips on that ridge.
The ruins can be seen in the fenced off area in the photo.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 29, 2015, 01:09:36 pm
Hugo, I recommend you download:

http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/ (http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/)

Scroll down to pages 16 and 17.

Is that the former home of your ancestor?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on October 29, 2015, 08:11:38 pm
Just a note regarding Chris Draper's Walks books.  Unfortunately there are some errors to be found in these.  For example, the structure at the roadside south of Pydew near Pabo bach(below the obelisk) is described as a WW2 gun emplacement.  In reality, it was a small reservoir or tank built for the Rural Sanitary Authority around 1887! The same contract also included the roadside tank near the road leading to Wiga.

I know Hugo is a useful guy when it comes to what is in the Archives and I wonder whether they have any returns from the Justices as regards licensed premises. If not they may be in Caernarfon. These may shed light on the dates that premises were licensed and, equally important, their names.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2015, 10:25:24 pm
You are correct in your comments Cambrian and I've found also another discrepancy today.  In his walking book though he correctly describes the water tank above Wiga Farm, but as Bri Roberts has said Chris Draper acknowledges the help and support of Enid Powell of Bryn Pydew, Glenda Watson ex Bryn Pydew, John and Dorothy Owen of Bryn Pydew.  Maybe, one of his contributors made an error and not Mr Draper.
I don't think that the fact that the Swan was a pub is disputed, it's the suggestion that it was a shop and Post Office that is disputed.  I'll ask that local resident on Tuesday because if the Swan was ever a shop or Post Office it would have been in my friend's lifetime and he should be able to remember that.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2015, 10:32:55 pm
Hugo, I recommend you download:

http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/ (http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/)

Scroll down to pages 16 and 17.

Is that the former home of your ancestor?

Thanks very much for that Bri,   I'll look at the article tomorrow when I can spend more time viewing it.     $thanx$
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 29, 2015, 10:53:04 pm
I don't think that the fact that the Swan was a pub is disputed, it's the suggestion that it was a shop and Post Office that is disputed.  I'll ask that local resident on Tuesday because if the Swan was ever a shop or Post Office it would have been in my friend's lifetime and he should be able to remember that.

Hmm to clarify:  I'm debating whether Swan was ever a shop. It did take on the Post Office duties and I think also did the news papers but I doubt anything more than that.  The door to the post office was what was our front door when we lived there. When it was the post office, you stood inside the porch and if I  remember correctly, there was a counter just inside the house or maybe even that took up part of the porch.  Thinking of when I lived there, the stairs were pretty much opposite the porch, to the right there was the door to our living room and to the left was our dining room.  I've having a hard time working out much space there.

I suppose what I first picked up on when I made my first post was my reading that there put a pretty much straight transition from pub to shop (perhaps with Post Office) and then to Post Office, presumably as it was at the time of the publication of the guide book.  This I think we can all agree is certainly not the case.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2015, 07:56:29 am
You are probably right about the shop aspect of the Swan and it may have just been a "picking up point" for small items like newspapers etc but it's the Post Office aspect that I've a very vague memory of.   I don't think that it was ever more than a sub Post Office but again I'll ask my friend and hope he can help.
In Mr Evans' day he ran a proper shop in the village and deliveries were made by his horse and cart.   I suppose that with people having cars and supermarkets opening,  a shop in the village became unsustainable and Glanwydden followed a similar fate as Pydew.
I would imagine that the Swan as a pub would have been in the 19th century rather than the 20th but again I don't know for certain.
Thanks again for posting those photos, the school and Chapel were demolished and new properties built in their place and one where the school was is up for sale and has been for a number of years now.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2015, 08:27:26 am
Hugo, I recommend you download:

http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/ (http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/walk-around-vardre/)

Scroll down to pages 16 and 17.

Is that the former home of your ancestor?

Thanks very much Bri for posting that link, I would never have been able to find it without your help.   $good$
Fatw was definitely the place where I've been told my ancestors lived.  It must have been my Grandfather or even his father who lived there when they moved to Deganwy from Penmachno.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 09:46:48 am
You are probably right about the shop aspect of the Swan and it may have just been a "picking up point" for small items like newspapers etc but it's the Post Office aspect that I've a very vague memory of.   I don't think that it was ever more than a sub Post Office but again I'll ask my friend and hope he can help.
In Mr Evans' day he ran a proper shop in the village and deliveries were made by his horse and cart.   I suppose that with people having cars and supermarkets opening,  a shop in the village became unsustainable and Glanwydden followed a similar fate as Pydew.
I would imagine that the Swan as a pub would have been in the 19th century rather than the 20th but again I don't know for certain.

That's pretty much the way I'm thinking.  What was the shop in Glanwydden?  I've some vague notion of a shop and bakery on the opposite side of the road and to the Queens Head and further up towards the windmill and seem to pulling a name Pickering but I'm not sure if I'm inventing this.

Supermarkets btw.  I think my mother used Maypole??? in Llandudno and later, Deganwy Kwick Save.

[/quote]Thanks again for posting those photos, the school and Chapel were demolished and new properties built in their place and one where the school was is up for sale and has been for a number of years now.
[/quote]

Looking back in terms of the 60s, it does seem a little odd the chapel going. When we went to church, it was the little C of E one near the village hall but as far as I remember, for want of a better term and I'm not sure how to put this as I don't mean it an any way that might upset anyone but the "old Welsh village" was quite strongly Welsh Chapel.

I don't know when the school closed but it was Glanwydden school and then John Bright for most of us.  I say most as there was some (I think council) division. I knew a couple of people who went some primary school in the Junction and then Aberconwy.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 12:04:58 pm
Hmm just been talking to family.

While I knew there was some contact with the village, I'd not realised one of my brothers does some gardening for Mrs Wilson, Old Swan!  I may be able to find out more that way.

My mother has managed to find. "Walks From Landudno, Christopher Draper, 1999.

This does mention Pickering in Glanwydden.

A question on a property name that you and the book mention.  Is it Glanfryn or Glanllyn.  Opposite Swan in front of Pydew House?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2015, 12:18:23 pm
Granllyn  was the last thatched cottage on the Creuddyn according to Chris Draper but when we looked around the property I think it had a red corrugated tin roof probably covering what was left of the thatch.
The terrace of cottages opposite and next to the Swan all had septic tanks and they all ended up in the grounds of Granllyn and that's one of the reasons why we didn't go ahead and buy Granllyn
When I passed by on a walk this year the place had had a nice extension done but it was completely overlooked by a massive white houseand that would put me off too.
It would be interesting if you could find out more about those quarry tiles and if there was a bakery there or not.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 12:49:27 pm
Granllyn  was the last thatched cottage on the Creuddyn according to Chris Draper but when we looked around the property I think it had a red corrugated tin roof probably covering what was left of the thatch.
The terrace of cottages opposite and next to the Swan all had septic tanks and they all ended up in the grounds of Granllyn and that's one of the reasons why we didn't go ahead and buy Granllyn
When I passed by on a walk this year the place had had a nice extension done but it was completely overlooked by a massive white houseand that would put me off too.
It would be interesting if you could find out more about those quarry tiles and if there was a bakery there or not.

Yes that is the property I'm thinking of as Glanllyn.  Could be a miss hearing on my part but I'd need to check. In my memory, Glanllyn/fryn did have a red tin roof but was later done up.

I did not know the running of the septic tanks for Gwilfryn? to Pen Dre but can imagine that.  Swan had its own by the wall next to Field Croft - I'd guess close to where the new houses were built the other side of the wall.  My memory in that spot is smelly petunias!

I will try to find out more about the tiles.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 02:10:59 pm
Our pictures of Pydew are far fewer than I expected but I think this one is from inside the school, used for a birthday party probably late 60s

I couldn't identify the children from this except to say I've sticky out ears and am towards the back left.

The adults on the left though may be of interest to this thread as they have sort of been referred to.  The one in the foreground is Mrs Owen, John Owen's mother (and of his younger sister, Llinos, who's party I believe it was) and further back is Enid Powell.  Both "old Pydew" people.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 02:13:17 pm
opps:

(http://www.jonbanjo.com/3tpic/school.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on October 30, 2015, 02:20:34 pm
The property is Glanllyn.

The Pydew Sub-Postmaster (and grocer) for many years was one Thomas Rhys Evans.  He was very prominent in local affairs, serving variously on Caernarvonshire County Council, the Conway and Colwyn Bay Joint Water Supply Board and, during the war, was co-opted to Llandudno Urban District Council.  There is a street named after him in Penrhyn Bay - Rhys Evans Close.

Incidentally, whilst most will be aware of a Llandudno - Pydew bus service which lasted until the 1970s, there was also a pre-war service from Colwyn Bay Station via Mochdre and Llangwstennin which terminated at the Post Office.  Only one journey ran through, the other 4 necessitated a change at Pen y Bont Quarry to the Llandudno service. The service was not reinstated after 1945.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on October 30, 2015, 02:33:41 pm

Incidentally, whilst most will be aware of a Llandudno - Pydew bus service which lasted until the 1970s, there was also a pre-war service from Colwyn Bay Station via Mochdre and Llangwstennin which terminated at the Post Office.  Only one journey ran through, the other 4 necessitated a change at Pen y Bont Quarry to the Llandudno service. The service was not reinstated after 1945.

Yep M25 (as it was in my times there) I knew.  Had not heard of or imagined a service to Colwyn Bay.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2015, 07:17:08 pm
I kept this cutting from the paper of the children from Bryn Pydew and Glanwydden.   I can recognise my distant relative in the photo  which was taken about 1960.





















.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 03, 2015, 06:11:06 pm
I saw my friend from Bryn Pydew at the coffee morning today and he had this to say on the matter:-

The Swan he remembers in recent years was owned by a Mrs Wilson and was a sub Post Office that sold newspapers and delivered them but sold nothing else. He said that the business was usually conducted in the front porch of the house.   He is not old enough to remember anything about the time when it was run as a pub.

Karenza, formerly the village shop was owned by a Mr Evans who in turn sold it to Hugh and Hannah Hughes and he said that he remembered them very well.    The Hughes' sold it on to the Powells who then ran the shop until circumstances made them close the shop.
He said that the village bakery was actually in a big room at the back of the shop.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 06, 2015, 12:47:05 am
Thanks for the info.  I've yet to get in touch with my brother.  In the meanwhile, this map I've just found may be of interest:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=53.2968&lon=-3.7891&layers=171&right=BingHyb (http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=53.2968&lon=-3.7891&layers=171&right=BingHyb)

It should give a current "street view" type map and a map from the 1880-9-s side by side.  It should be easy enough to pick Swan out on the new map. If you move your mouse over the house. you should see a cursor over the property in the left hand (old map) pane. 

Notice there are 3 buildings in the area.  I think the one to the right is the building that I speculate was a bakery at some point. 

The one to the back seems to be what we used as a shed and a garage.  It was a funny building that always looked as if it had been cobbled into the shed from something else. 

---
Looking through online  maps, I think I've found the answer to something that used to puzzle me.  School Cottages are at the top of Gilfach, a fair way from the school.  I now  see maps prior to about 1900 place the school where School Cottages are.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: mull on November 06, 2015, 12:14:30 pm
Notice the name Skerryvore Road.
I wonder what the connection is ?
 Skerryvore Lighthouse is on the reef south of Tiree,about 20miles west of my house on Mull.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 06, 2015, 12:47:03 pm
Notice the name Skerryvore Road.
I wonder what the connection is ?
 Skerryvore Lighthouse is on the reef south of Tiree,about 20miles west of my house on Mull.

Skerryvore is the other property in Bryn Pydew I lived in. It doesn't exist on the old map in my link and I guess it was built sort of 1910-1920s.

I've no idea if this is true but the  tale we had was the house was built by a retired sea captain. Skerryvore Lighthouse was supposed to have been a landmark for him - sort of he knew he was nearly home when he saw it. 

I assume the road name came after the house name.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: mull on November 06, 2015, 05:28:36 pm
Thanks for that info.
Sounds right.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 06, 2015, 05:51:01 pm
Oh, I forgot.  I do know one other suggestion for Skerryvore.  Although I do feel the reference is to the lighthouse in Scotland, some do suggest it stems from The Skerries, a group of islets  off Anglesey.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 06, 2015, 06:00:38 pm
If you put "British History online" in Google and then go into the site.  Put Llanrhos in and you'll see an old map of Pydew.
The School is by Gilfach and must have been earlier that the one in the village centre.
Those school house cottages look really nice now and my friend has been inside them when they became private houses.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 06, 2015, 06:17:55 pm
Those school house cottages look really nice now and my friend has been inside them when they became private houses.

I think school cottages had been done up by 1978 (the second time we moved to Pydew).  I've not been inside them but externally, I think it was quite a transformation.

As kids, there used to be a house we called "haunted house". It was past the chapel and in the row that ended with Sea View. It was just in a terrible state of disrepair and nothing (other than kids for a while trying to scare one another) really creepy about it.  The old school cottages on the other hand did look spooky to me.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 06, 2015, 06:18:12 pm
Skerryvore has a prominent position in the village and my father used to talk about it as he knew the person who lived there at the time.  I just wish now that I could remember what he said about the place

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48851840.html (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48851840.html)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 06, 2015, 06:37:38 pm
Skerryvore has a prominent position in the village and my father used to talk about it as he knew the person who lived there at the time.  I just wish now that I could remember what he said about the place

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48851840.html (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48851840.html)

Skerryvore has been done up and extended since we lived there.  The views will be pretty much the same though. In the garden, outside the porch, I could read the writing on the cabin lift in Llanduno with binoculars.  Going anticlockwise you could see about as far as the (I think) Pen Y Clip tunnel.  That sweep would include part of Anglesey but I don't believe the Skerries would be included.

Views of Snowdonia from the bedrooms. I think Pen Llithrig y Wrach was the most prominent mountain from there. 

The people I remember living there when we first moved to Pydew were one of the many Mr and Mrs Jones (Mr and Mrs Jones Skerryvore naturally...)

Skerryvore is supposed to have had a tea garden at some point.

Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Giggly girl on November 07, 2015, 04:40:46 pm
Weren`t there wells in Bryn Pydew?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 07, 2015, 04:58:53 pm
I think there is a clue in the name.   Bryn -  Hill
                                                        Pydew - Well

But seriously. there are lots of wells in that area.   The main well I was told was in the grounds of Granllyn in the centre of the village but there are a few more very near to Granllyn
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Giggly girl on November 12, 2015, 07:05:01 pm
Thank you.  Would be nice to have a pub tea room again in Bryn Pydew for walkers and cyclists.  Something like the Queens Head, but with a better view. 
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 19, 2015, 12:46:24 am
Thank you.  Would be nice to have a pub tea room again in Bryn Pydew for walkers and cyclists.  Something like the Queens Head, but with a better view.

Not sure Pydew really has the passing trade?  My speculation with a Skerryvore tea garden tends more towards a hobby than a serious business concern to keep the place going on its own?

Moving back a post or two.  I don't know about wells despite (twice round) probably living in Pydew over 20 years and for most of that time knowing pydew means "well".

I'm not a Welsh speaker (and as stated before, Shropshire born) but do wonder what this/these wells were - man made or natural?  I do know another Welsh word ffynnon and wonder if the latter would be a better fit for something natural???

Personally, we found no wells at either Old Swan or Skerryvore although there was a patch of ground that  puzzled us at the latter.  There was a circle  that attracted more moss, on the left of the drive as you approach the house - largely an area, at least in my time where cowslips were abundant but as most of the land was, ,scratching, quickly reached the limestone beneath (little depth of soil).  I'd think it was just the way water ran and drained from the drive.

The only natural sort of thing I'm thinking I know is further away.  If you go down Bodysgallen woods and when you reach a sort of right hand twist in the track, you can instead of going to the hall and farm, cross a field and head down what I was told is called the nun's stepps before reaching Marl.  I believe there is a spring there?

Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 19, 2015, 09:33:38 am
There were two tea rooms in Coedlodd Lane many years ago but I'm afraid that there wouldn't be sufficient trade  to make one viable nowadays.
Have a look at British History online and put in Llanrhos and scroll down to Pydew.  You can see  wells at Cae Cwnws and Lletty'r gath ( lovely name)  but the one I think you are talking about is Jacob's Ladder.
Haven't been there myself but will make a point of seeing it sometime.
I think that there are more springs or wells about though as I've seen them on other maps
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 19, 2015, 10:46:08 am
There were two tea rooms in Coedlodd Lane many years ago but I'm afraid that there wouldn't be sufficient trade  to make one viable nowadays.
Have a look at British History online and put in Llanrhos and scroll down to Pydew.  You can see  wells at Cae Cwnws and Lletty'r gath ( lovely name)  but the one I think you are talking about is Jacob's Ladder.
Haven't been there myself but will make a point of seeing it sometime.
I think that there are more springs or wells about though as I've seen them on other maps

Thanks for the info. I've found them on the map.  What does "Lletty'r" translate to?

I don't know the name "Jacob's Ladder" but would imagine you are correct and that we are thinking of the same spot.  I have walked that way quite a few times as one of the possible routes on foot (you can also walk past Galchog (?sp) to cut a corner off the road way) to/from the Junction sort of area but have never stopped there to look for a sort of source.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 19, 2015, 12:13:13 pm
Llety  means lodgings but I think in this context it was the resting place of the cat.     I'll have a look on info about Jacob'd ladder by Marl when I get back from the Queens Head in Glanwydden.        $dins$
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 19, 2015, 01:53:27 pm
Llety  means lodgings but I think in this context it was the resting place of the cat.     I'll have a look on info about Jacob'd ladder by Marl when I get back from the Queens Head in Glanwydden.        $dins$

Hope you have a good meal.  It's 15+ years since I've eaten there but the food at least used to be very good.

Thanks for the translation. I like it.  I actually live in England in a house with a Welsh name (in English, small wood) but Lletty'r Gath would probably be more apt.  We've currently got two found as feral kittens that have been with us well over 10 years, a seemingly untameable tom who I think has always been wild who calls in for breakfast and supper and had a few others at various times.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 19, 2015, 06:33:43 pm
We did enjoy the meal at the Queens Head thanks,  it has always been good every time I've been there.

Just had a very quick look for Jacob's Ladder in Marl Woods and this came up and shows the well or spring.  Scroll down to page 20 to see it and others.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFAQFjAIahUKEwjCypKGjp3JAhXBtxQKHYFRAK4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FNon_GAT_Reports%2FEASreport_2002_26_compressed.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFl3JFtdbD-nc3IYOJXCK2qCAkLtA&bvm=bv.107763241,d.bGQ (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFAQFjAIahUKEwjCypKGjp3JAhXBtxQKHYFRAK4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FNon_GAT_Reports%2FEASreport_2002_26_compressed.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFl3JFtdbD-nc3IYOJXCK2qCAkLtA&bvm=bv.107763241,d.bGQ)



Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Jack on November 19, 2015, 09:07:57 pm
Hi Hugo and Squiggle, I often walk up Jacob's Ladder on my regular walk around Marl, Bodysgallen, Llanrhos and the Vardre. It is beautiful in Spring with all the wild garlic growing up it and smells divine.  At the top is the spring, and although it is often full of empty beer cans it is quite a nice spot. There is a Woodland Trust interpretation panel around there too with extra information.

Off topic slightly there is another Well, St Mary's Well, on the footpath from Llanrhos Church to the Vardre. Kevin Slattery from the excellent Deganwy History Group has done quite a lot of research on it, which can be seen here: http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/st-marys-well-crogfryn-lane-llanrhos/ (http://www.deganwyhistory.co.uk/research-articles/st-marys-well-crogfryn-lane-llanrhos/)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 19, 2015, 10:35:18 pm
Thanks for posting that Jack and the link about Ffynnon Santes Fair.    I remember reading and enjoying your walk when you went from Marl to Llanrhos and your posting of that grave in Llanrhos  Church.     Did you take a photo of Jacob's Ladder when you did that walk?
The restoration work  on Ffynnon Santes Fair was really good and the water was flowing quite quickly when I last saw it.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on November 19, 2015, 10:43:32 pm
Thanks for the link Hugo.  It seems to be a fairly large pdf.  I'll look at this tomorrow.

Jack:

I'm sorry to read that path is getting littered. I guess I'm also a little surprised it gets that popular to get the beer cans. While I know it's not true, I think when you know most of the ways from somewhere like Pydew, down Goedlodd lane across the Nant to the top of Gilfach, from Gilfach to Fault (I can't spell it) where you join the Wiga track, what we called bogey lane to Mochdre, etc. one can start to feel a member of a pretty exclusive club and I rarely met anyone over my own years of at times (I wasn't a regular walker) using these paths.

Wild garlic!.  From Pydew, it grows at the top of Bodysgallen.  I've just asked my mother the question "what do you notice as you enter Bodysgallen woods in Spring?"  Needless to say, she answered immediately with the smell of wild garlic.  My own sense of smell is generally quite poor but even I love that one.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 09, 2015, 09:48:38 pm
I've had some info back. The property that was by the wall of Old Swan was called something along the lines of Cilgart . There seems to be agreement that it had been a bakery.  I believe the tiles are still there.

I hope to be able to post a couple of pictures in a few days time.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 13, 2015, 06:33:02 pm
The first picture shows "Cilgart" on the right.

I believe the second was amongst the deeds for Old Swan.  I'm just posting a portion.  It seems to confirm something I've wondered whether might be the case for some time.  Note that Old Swan is named "White Orchard" and that what marked as "Ruins of Old" Inn is now the garage of Old Swan.



Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 13, 2015, 07:59:24 pm
Something I debate with the plan I gave is the "outbuilding" next to the "old inn" . There was a dividing wall there when we lived in Old Swan but, looking at an older OS map, I would speculate that the "old inn" probably extended beyond the boundaries on the plan, giving the part I've shaded in yellow on the map?


Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 14, 2015, 07:46:18 am
Looks like I was wrong with my speculation in my previous post.  I've just found this OS map which says surveyed 1875 to 1888. 

 White Orchard/Old Swan does not exist on this one.  So to go back to where I came on this thread, as far as I can make out, not only has the current Old Swan probably never been a shop, it's never been a pub either.

Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 14, 2015, 05:05:26 pm
Looks like it's back to square one although my friend has confirmed that it was a part time sub post office and delivered and sold newspapers if nothing else.
The old Swan does look like an old building but appears to have a more modern extension at the rear.   It looks like it was built before 1888 but then it should have appeared on the O/S map.
The deeds should show when it was built though.
That's a nice photo of the man and boy but I can't place the large house that appears on the left of the photo.  I presume that it was taken on the green in Ffordd Y Pentre.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 14, 2015, 05:06:02 pm
Probably a final comment on this from me but I've been pondering this for much of today.  I suppose I could suggest that the deeds to Old Swan would have been locked away by my father who would not have considered anything in their contents to be of concern to anyone other than himself but it still feels a bit odd not being aware of the marking of the ruins of the inn and of the name "White Orchard" .

Barring 4 year gap in Kent, during which time we remained in contact with some people in the village, I knew Pydew for 30 years. I can't help but wonder how many times I might have simply told people "Old Swan" was an old pub.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 14, 2015, 05:17:24 pm
The old Swan does look like an old building but appears to have a more modern extension at the rear.   It looks like it was built before 1888 but then it should have appeared on the O/S map.
The deeds should show when it was built though.

Yes, Old Swan was extended at some point. The older looking front part had sash cord windows. I've a feeling that the windows in the other part were metal framed.  Whatever, they opened outwards.  Another thing was that the bedrooms in the front part were rather larger than the ones in the back.  My mother has commented in the past that it should have been extended a few more feet.

I wish I could see the deeds myself.  I can't do that though and don't feel inclined to pester my brother (and by extension, Mrs Wilson) again.

Quote
That's a nice photo of the man and boy but I can't place the large house that appears on the left of the photo.  I presume that it was taken on the green in Ffordd Y Pentre.

Isn't that Pydew House?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 14, 2015, 08:21:03 pm
I don't know the name of the property but I've just seen it on Google.  It's above Glan Llyn and has changed a bit since your photo was taken.
The village has changed a lot since you were living there, some of the smaller older properties have been demolished only to be replaced with large modern houses.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 14, 2015, 08:53:51 pm
I don't know the name of the property but I've just seen it on Google.  It's above Glan Llyn and has changed a bit since your photo was taken.

Yes, that's the one, ie. above Glanllyn, we knew as Pydew House. I can't picture what changes there may have been between the picture and when I knew it except, in my memory, it had X or possibly T cross shaped things somewhere on the walls.  I was told they were because of structural problems.

Quote
The village has changed a lot since you were living there, some of the smaller older properties have been demolished only to be replaced with large modern houses.

Yep things change. I think what throws me most it that I find it easy to think Pydew always used to exactly as it was when I first moved there and if, OK, I know there were additions like Skerryvore before then, it surely can't have changed say between say 1800 and 1900 sort of thing.  It's silly but my mind keeps expecting the past to be static.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2015, 09:54:35 am
Some photos for you and Hiraeth:-
The first is Wiga Farm
The second is the new building in Coedlodd Lane that replaced the old wooden bungalow that was the 1st on the left in the lane
The third is Glan Llyn
The fourth is Ty Capel
The fifth and sixth are the obelisk and the view from that area
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 11:56:41 am
Thanks Hugo.  I've not seen the Goedlodd Lane one in any form.  If it replaced the one I'm thinking of, I'm a bit sorry to think of what might have happened to the garden since the last time I saw it - which yes is a good few years ago....  The then owner told us she let it do its own thing. It was kept under control but it's quite possible the flowers were mostly things that had self set.  I seen to remember blues and purples.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2015, 02:20:32 pm
There is also another brand new house in that lane, it's on the right a bit further along.   Another one I like in that lane is Midacres, it's a large property on the left and was once a tea room with tennis courts and croquet lawns
Planning policy has changed over the years and one property I was interested in was Bwlch Farm.    It was an old long low  building but last time I walked in Pydew that old building had been demolished and a massive new house had been built in the grounds
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 02:39:04 pm
Thanks again Hugo. That is all new to me.

I can't really picture how Bwlch farm used to look but I passed it loads of times.  It also used to be a sort of landmark to me on occasions I walked up that way. I don't know if you've ever done that sort of thing but for me on foot, it was sort of "stage completed - now, do I fancy going left and going past Maelgwyn or shall I fork right?"

Re planning permissions.  Back at a time when things were going well for me and it looked as if I would be able to do it, we did try to get outline planning permission for a bungalow at the bottom of the grounds of Skerryvore, with an entrance onto Goedlodd Lane.  This was flatly refused, I think on the grounds of "green belt".

One other thing that way.  I think that when my mother sold Skerryvore, she managed to get some form of preservation order on the old walnut tree down the bottom.  I hope its still standing,
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 05:14:10 pm
Here's on for you. Hugo.  I've not got a picture.

If you were to walk up to the top of Old Swan garden, there were a couple of tracks (not as far as I know ever proper paths but they were there).  Going straight up would take you onto "the mountain". Turning right would take you past Field Croft's garden, pass Rala and the chapel, etc. and you would wind up on the footpath that ran from that area to Goedlodd lane.  There were the ruins of an old cottage there sort of behind Sea View and in the woods. I've a feeling it was called Hafod. Long ago and long lost I found an old oil lamp (minus glass) which I managed to polish and get working.  I think that was also where a brother much later managed to find a couple of decent Codds bottles and/ or ginger beers (he collects old bottles). Ideal property for renovation??

Going left btw used to lead to another attraction btw. I think you may have had to go on the mountain first to do that but you could come out near Pen Dre.  There used to what was left of an old car there, just a rusted chassis.  But hey as young kids in search of adventure, it still had a steering wheel and you could pretend to drive it...
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 17, 2015, 11:39:09 am
I was sorry to about your father squiggle but hope that he and your mother are enjoying the countryside in Norfolk.   Skerryvore has sparked off some distant and rather vague memories for me as I remember my father talking about and visiting our relatives in Pydew. They were the Williams of Ffrith Farm and the Jones' of Cae Cwnws but he often talked about Skerryvore and I think he knew the owners there and this must have been in the 1970's when I was looking at properties in Pydew.
My father was Norman Hughes and was a builder by trade but sadly died in 1986 when aged just 61

I've copied a snippet for you about St Catherine's Church in the village
"Until 1945, worshippers had either to go to the Welsh Chapel in Bryn Pydew, or walk down the footpath to the ancient Parish Church of St. Cystennin's at Llangystennin. Morning Service was in English; Evening Service in Welsh. However, in May 1945, a group of worshippers decided they would take over a Western Command Army nissen hut in Bryn Pydew. Two days after V.E. Day on May 8th, 1945, a first service was held in the home of Mr and Mrs Alf Potts at Skerrymore, Bryn Pydew. Weeks later they all moved to the army" huts, with children meeting for Sunday School in one of them
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 17, 2015, 02:33:43 pm
I didn't know the origins of St. Catherine's Church, Hugo, thanks.

As far as I can work things out, Skerryvore would have had 3 owners in the 70s.

The first would have been a couple I only ever knew as "Mr and Mrs Jones Skeryvore". My memory seems to say they had an Alsation dog. I think the property got to big for them.  They kept the patch of land to the right of the house and before the mountian and in our time at Skerryvore, relatives of theirs used to either camp there or use a caravan there.  I could be wrong on this bit but I think the owners after us bought the field, reuniting it with Skerryvore.

This happened while we were in Kent but the next owners would have been Iroreth and Jane Jones. I think these would also have been the people at Glanllyn when you viewed it.

We moved there in 1978.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 17, 2015, 02:59:17 pm
OH and a bit OT but, not that she'd be able to walk them now, my mother does miss, eg. a walk in the Carneddau. North Wales to North Norfolk is quite a contrast!  That said, there are places like the Cley reserve on the coast and of course there are the broads - maybe next year we'll finally manage to see a swallowtail butterfly...  The coast itself is pretty bare (eg. no Great or Little Orme's) but, personally, I think one can find beauty even in bleakness.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 17, 2015, 04:43:49 pm
Thinking Cae Cwnws and the top bit to the right of Skerryvore that we used to call the mountain, I once heard something that I thought sounded nice.

I can't verify this or know how things work out but the tale goes it was given by the family of Cae Cwnws as a place for the enjoyment of the children of Bryn Pydew.  We used to play up there when little. Trying to sledge down the grass (no snow) on a bit of hardboard was a favourite.

Of course proper sledging and Pydew had its own tragedy.  He was an older age group than me and I never knew him to have chatted with him but  I still remember the day Paul Scott went over Ffrith mountain. We used to look forward to snow in Pydew as kids - it didn't take much to stop the bus and if a bit heavier even the taxi for the younger ones to Glanwydden could fail - it could be an extra day off school!  I think we had got to school that day but the older boys took the day off or perhaps were sent home. It was a childhood shock to learn someone had died that way. I think the whole small community was also stunned by it.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 17, 2015, 06:01:10 pm
I've been racking my brains, Hugo.

The other name I come up with for Skerryvore is a Mr Bott - I think I have that right. I'm not sure if he was a plumber by trade but I have heard reference to someone regarding the pipework in the house. This would have been at least pre 67.

It is difficult to try to draw on memory and perhaps hearsay like this. To move back to Old Swan, I believe there were a family with a name something like "Maurice".  Before that, it does have some association with Peter Thomas MP (a one time secretary of State for Wales). Whether he actually owned it or whether he might have just stopped with friends there is something I don't know for sure....
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 25, 2015, 12:16:58 pm
Just been thinking on "White Orchard".  I wouldn't describe it quite as an orchard but there were long established fruit trees when we lived there - and may well still be there.

The apples trees were a type unknown to me (but I only know a couple of apples anyway...). They grew as big as a Bramley. As far as I remember, they had pretty uniform sort of waxy green skin and as a kid, I'm pretty sure I could use one as an eater so perhaps they were dual purpose.

The pear tree used to produce small pears as hard as bullets. You could cook them but they were no dessert pear.

The plum tree was probably a Victoria. Something similar anyway.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on December 26, 2015, 03:43:08 pm
Now that you've mentioned his name, I think that it must have been Mr Bott the plumber that my father used to go and visit.
If there were any old(ish) forum members that were born and bred in Bryn Pydew I'm sure they could fill in any gaps for you.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 29, 2015, 11:19:43 am
Now that you've mentioned his name, I think that it must have been Mr Bott the plumber that my father used to go and visit.
If there were any old(ish) forum members that were born and bred in Bryn Pydew I'm sure they could fill in any gaps for you.

Yep, it would be useful to have someone like that here.

I hope I have got the name right.  I can expand a little on plumbing.  When we moved to Skerryvore, there was a lot of redundant copper pipe. Some of it may have been to do with the sinks in each bedroom (I can't remember if they were all working in those days) but some of it was just duplicated. eg. I think in the downstairs toilet/bathroom (there wasn't an upstairs one btw) there were 6 pipes running up the wall when it only needed a cold feed going up and hot coming down(or perhaps a third - memory seems to suggest that at that time, c/w to the bath was supplied via a tank in the roof) . I remember talking to Mr Roberts, a plumber in Glanwydden and him attributing Skerryvore's peculiarities to this guy.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on December 29, 2015, 11:57:51 am
I remember a Mr W T Jones of Tyn Terfyn, who was the local plumber in the 60s and 70s.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squiggle on December 29, 2015, 12:47:26 pm
I remember a Mr W T Jones of Tyn Terfyn, who was the local plumber in the 60s and 70s.

I remember he was a  plumber.  I'm certain the pipework in Skerryvore was not attributed to him though.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bebull on April 25, 2017, 12:18:23 am
Hello,
I know this is a pretty old thread, but I came across this Forum a week ago when my daughter mentioned the "Cottage in Wales" which my parents owned in the early 1950's.  This prompted me to Google Bryn Pydew and I was delighted to find the conversations between Squiggle and Hugo especially because the house is mentioned - 'White Orchard', on Skerryvore Road.  I had no idea it had been a pub called the Old Swan.   For about 4 years I spent many happy weekends and holidays there.  The family from whom we purchased the house had built the  extension but my mother worked very hard on the garden.  I remember her hauling rocks from the ruined building in the driveway - which is mentioned as having  possibly been a bakery -   to the orchard to build a pond.  She also made an extensive vegetable garden behind the house and used to 'lurk' in the front porch on a Sunday morning with her bucket and shovel, waiting for the horses to come down the lane so that she could dart out and  collect the 'droppings' for her roses.  There was no Grid electricity of course but we had a generator in the outbuilding behind the house.  I have great memories also of scrambling up through the back garden and up onto the 'Mountain' and sledging during the winter.  The family to the left of the house were the Hughes - mother and father and three grown-up children  - Gwillym, Jinny and Tegwyn who was the youngest  and probably about 20 at the time.  I have photos of the house and of me with the local children - some of them, a lot older than me,  would be in their  eighties now (I am almost 75).  The regular drive from the suburbs of Manchester (no motorways then) eventually  became too much for my mother after my father became unwell so sadly they sold White Orchard.  I did not return there until 1995 when my daughter and I went on  what was for me a 'sentimental  journey' after my mother's death.  I knocked on the door and we were invited in by the very friendly couple who lived there as the time - I'm afraid I don't remember their name but I know they were definitely operating the Post Office - very discretely -  from the front porch.   The village is of course much more 'built-up' than I remember it as a child.  There were few houses and a rather gloomy Chapel in the tiny hamlet.   I remember going past the chapel on our way to collecting cobnuts from the hedgerows in the lane beyond the village. It's fascinating to see White Orchard on Streetview,  The house looks exactly the same but of course the garden is different and the orchard - and I presume Mum's pond - look as if they are gone. The photos are old and a bit faded but someone might recognise themselves!  As soon as  I  figure out how to attach my pix I will post them!
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: SteveH on April 25, 2017, 10:21:52 am
Looking forward to the photos.   $good$
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bebull on April 25, 2017, 12:33:02 pm
Thank you  very much Polly and Steve H. for picking up my post.  I didn't expect any response as it has been so long since this thread was 'live'.  Reading through all the posts again, I have had a 'light-bulb' moment.  Of course - my father  bought the house from Peter Thomas, former Welsh Secy,  who must have carried out the conversion.  Maybe he changed the name from the Old Swan  to 'White Orchard' - I'm not sure.

Hope the photos might  be of some interest.  The young man on his own is Tegwyn Hughes - our next door neighbour.  I am in the middle of the group photo and that's me on the 'Mountain' with 'Rex'.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: SteveH on April 25, 2017, 12:53:08 pm
Thank you  very much Polly and Steve H. for picking up my post.  I didn't expect any response as it has been so long since this thread was 'live'.  Reading through all the posts again, I have had a 'light-bulb' moment.  Of course - my father  bought the house from Peter Thomas, former Welsh Secy,  who must have carried out the conversion.  Maybe he changed the name from the Old Swan  to 'White Orchard' - I'm not sure.
Hope the photos might  be of some interest.  The young man on his own is Tegwyn Hughes - our next door neighbour.  I am in the middle of the group photo and that's me on the 'Mountain' with 'Rex'.
Thanks for the photos and past memories, a lot of the "Times past" threads can lie dormant for awhile, just waiting for the likes of yourself to add more information and history, the more the better, and it all adds up. thank you.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 25, 2017, 01:00:42 pm
It's nice to see the old photos of the people and the village.   The cottage is still called the Swan and looked very well looked the last time I saw it.    Just around the corner in Ffordd Y Pentre there was a shop, a bakery, school and a Chapel as well as another pub.
The pub was called The Red Lion but is now a private residence called Islwyn
Sadly they have all gone and I'm sure that you have noticed a lot of changes to the village over the years.
When I had a walk in Coedlodd Lane there have been a couple of nice new properties built  there that have replaced older buildings.
At one time I was seriously thinking of buying the cottage across the road from the Swan, it was a small cottage and one of the last thatched cottages in the area although when I looked at it the thatch was covered in a corrugated tin roof.  I decided against buying after restrictions were put on how much I could develop it.
My father always told me that distant relatives of mine lived in Pydew at Ffridd and Cae Cwnws
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: hollins on April 25, 2017, 01:07:12 pm
Bebull, it was lovely to read your reminiscences of your mother's garden and then seeing the photos.
I hope the present owners of the house are looking in.
How interesting that would be for them.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bebull on April 25, 2017, 02:46:26 pm
Thank you Hollins - lots of good memories are flooding back.  I think another visit is overdue. 
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Jack on April 25, 2017, 04:40:37 pm
Thanks Bebull, really enjoyed your photos and story  :)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: hiraeth on June 11, 2017, 10:06:50 am
From squiggle.  A few comments for Bebull

The pond had been filled in before we moved  to Old Swan/White Orchard in the mid 60s.

I remember a Mrs Hughes in Gwilfryn. She died during the time we lived in Swan.  The house was then bought by Ioreth Jones.

The couple you met in Swan would have been Mr and Mrs Wilson. Mr Wilson died a few years ago but Mrs Wilson still lives there.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Bebull on July 18, 2017, 05:58:11 pm
Thank you Squiggle.  Have just returned from holiday so have only just seen this.  So glad to hear that Mrs Wilson is still there.  I am going to try and visit Pydew as soon as I can.  I believe one of the children in the group photo is still there - maybe there are more?  I remember Mrs Hughes as a quiet, kind lady and her daughter - Jinny - was good fun.  I think she worked in Llandudno and I have a photo of her in costume for an amateur theatrical production.  She will  be  well into her eighties now.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: hiraeth on July 22, 2017, 01:26:42 am
Hi again Bebull. Again from squiggle:

We can't shine any light on the group photo.

I could be wrong but I think that there was a Nia in Mrs Hughes family, I guess possibly a grand daughter. She was supposed to be very good at and very into amateur dramatics so perhaps there is a tie in there.

Btw, I've just (to the best of memory...) tried to be "factual" with my comments to you. It is really nice to "meet" someone else who has walked up the garden on to the "mountain". Did you start the short track or was it there before? I remember as kids that we, armed with secateurs, did clear some stuff but the way was there.  Thanks also or the photos and info. It does tie tings together.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2017, 02:33:30 pm
Squiggle,   I had a phone call this morning from a forum member and we had a long and very interesting conversation about Bryn Pydew and the people living there.

It was just fascinating listening to him telling me all about the village, its history and the people.    He has lived in the village all his life, over 70 years and remembers you and your family very well and he.ll be able to fill in bits about the Swan for you and I really enjoyed listening to him telling me about the place.

There is a lot to tell but I won't spoil it and will look forward to him posting all about it on here.   I don't think that there will be any one living  in the village now who has a better knowledge of the village.   I have distant relatives in the village and he was even able to tell me about them which I never knew before so I'm looking forward  to reading his posts.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on October 02, 2017, 04:43:50 pm
Sounds interesting, Hugo,

I'm trying to work out the ages with me 57 now.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2017, 06:42:25 pm
Sounds interesting, Hugo,

I'm trying to work out the ages with me 57 now.

You should be able to work it out squiggle, it's not unusual.        ;D
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on October 02, 2017, 07:01:22 pm
Probably should Hugo. A funny thing with me and Pydew is that when I think of older people,  it tends to be say Bryn's (Maelgwyn) nain (Mrs Jones, Islwyn  or Keith's (for one at Fron) nain and taid (Bryn Tirion) etc...  Of course even in my spells there, time itself moved on...
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
Sounds like the green, green grass of home to me.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on October 02, 2017, 07:58:11 pm
In some ways, maybe it is that for me, Hugo

My views have varied over the years sometimes disliking bits,  but with current head, I'd go back to our first time round late 60/70s Pydew tomorrow.  I suppose I think now, for better or worse, of the community that was there and things i didn't see growing up eg. miles of playground as being quite lucky. The excitement of Pydew Rovers FC, a couple of concerts, eg. Hoguair Wyddfa in my early days....

So yes, I think currently I do have some nostalgia for the village and doubt I'd be here otherwise... 

But on the other hand, even i there was a way, i doubt the 21C Pydew is for me.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2017, 08:26:38 pm
It is a different Pydew now to your time there.  Some houses have gone only to be replaced by massive buildings that wouldn't have been allowed years ago, but it is still a beautiful place.
When I was talking to the forum member this morning it was fascinating listening to his tales of village life over the years and he's got a lot of info on the Swan as you'll find out soon.
Believe me, you'll enjoy the things he has to say
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on November 06, 2017, 12:15:20 pm
I've not heard anything since my conversation with the Bryn Pydew resident but will pass on a message for him and see what happens.
You may know the person, but your parents most certainly will and he can tell you all about the Swan and its history.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: olseadog on February 10, 2018, 04:41:51 pm
Hello Folks,

I was amazed to come across  this forum after just googling Old Swan, Bryn Pydew.

 My parents bought and lived in Old Swan in the early 1960' s. I must have only been about 6 or 7 years old when we moved there, so I am guessing it was around 1962 or '63. I think we lived there only a few years, moving to Chester about 1966 which suggests my family sold Old Swan to squigglev2. We were certainly there in 1965 as I can recall listening to the radio in the kitchen at breakfast time to the reports of Winston Churchill dying.

By 1967 we had relocated to Buckinghamshire, later Hampshire and have subsequently spent the last  30 years in Cornwall, so my brief time as a young lad in Pydew seems a very distant memory.

I do recall some noteable things, such as walking to school at Glanwydden through the snow of 1963 which was deep. I often played with a great friend who my late parents told me we were inseparable, was Jane Thomas the daughter of the MP Peter Thomas previously mentioned on this thread. I cannot say how we became friends but perhaps if their family had previously lived at Old Swan, perhaps they had remained in the area. I have an enduring memory of the two of us hiding behind the garden wall and "lobbing" fallen apples from the orchard over the wall and suprising passing residents. I think we got into trouble!

It seems from earlier postings the garden and surroundings was a haven for children. We had our "den" up the paths at the back of the garden and had "look outs" by climbing the trees there. I probably read too much Enid Blyton "Famous Five" books. We also frequently sat on the same large boulder on the "mountain" that has been posted by Bebull in the earlier pics. I think we as youngsters had real freedom to explore and enjoy the rural idyll. Sparce memories, but fond ones.

Sadly, I have only once revisited Pydew, about three years ago and it was as lovely a village then as I remembered as a child. By chance, my wife and I happened to speak with the lady living in Old Swan who wasn't at all surprised that an "old resident" should turn up.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on February 11, 2018, 02:42:31 pm
Interesting contribution olseadog.  Peter Thomas and his family did live at the Old Swan in the 1950s and I think they then went to live in Llanbedr y Cennin in the Conwy Valley. He lost the Conway seat in 1966 to Ednyfed Hudson Davies who himself died a few of weeks ago.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on February 12, 2018, 12:47:59 pm
Thanks  oldseadog .  Yes,. I think we must have got Swan from your family.

Yes. The garden and up to the “mountain” was enjoyed. I’m not sure it was our most common play area for most of my time there though – perhaps growing less so as we got a little bit older. Amongst other things, we would spend a lot of time in the playing fields, often playing an attack and defence type football. One sort of routine I seem to remember for a couple of summer holidays was that the small group (usually 5 of us) would gather at Swan in the morning, then watch a little bit of kids TV before going on to do something else.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2018, 02:01:54 pm
A few months ago I had a very nice chat with a local Pydew resident and you may have had the Swan from him.      I was hoping that he would be posting something on here as he knew all about the Swan and the pub as well as a bakery.   It was fascinating to talk to him and he even gave me info about my relatives in the area.

It would be nice if he posts on here as he knows your family squigglev 2   
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on February 12, 2018, 02:27:35 pm
Certainly an interesting thread, Hugo. I could never have imagined that when I first stumbled on the thread and questioned the info in a guide book, that we would so far end up with I think 3 people posting. who have lived in the property and even with similar type thoughts about the garden, etc! 

I think the thread must be quite high on search results as I know that even a brother now in QLD, Australia stumbled on it on a search and, recognising my contribution, emailed me to tell me about it. But it still seems strange that even one other may be googling "Old Swan/ White Orchard, Bryn Pydew".

It would certainly be nice to hear from the person you know although my feeling is that we would not have had Swan from him. It is no more than a feeling but as well as oldseadog's dates making sense and a family moving out of the area seems to make better sense.

Of course my parent's second property (Skerryvore) in the village after a spell in Kent was bought from someone still living it the village, so maybe there is a bit of confusion there???  He btw is actually TIJ but is better known by his middle name.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2018, 02:58:59 pm
.

Of course my parent's second property (Skerryvore) in the village after a spell in Kent was bought from someone still living it the village, so maybe there is a bit of confusion there???  He btw is actually TIJ but is better known by his middle name.

It's the same person squigglev 2  and it's strange you mentioning "White Orchard" as he also told me the story about the name.   I'll try and make contact with him as he would be able to make a valuable contribution to this thread
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2018, 03:47:05 pm
With some improvement in the weather I went up to Pydew this morning and as prearranged I called at Tom's house,( or the Mayor of Pydew as someone affectionately called him on here.)
Anyway Tom had meticulously  been gathering all the information he could and we had a very interesting and to me personally, a fascinating insight into Pydew and its village life.    I could mention things we discussed but I would prefer that it came from Tom as he could explain things clearer and more accurately than I could hope to do so.
One thing I found very interesting was Cil Giat which could be seen in Squiggle's photo of 13th December 2015,    The building is the one on the right of the photo and you can just see part of it.     Across the road leading up in the direction of Skerryvore was a gate across the road and that may be the reason for the buildings name.  Now both the house and gate are no longer there,
Incidentally one of the two children featured in the photo is a brother of Tom
Sqiggle you are correct in saying that the pub was where the garage is now and by all accounts it had a thatched roof.   I think that Tom said that Cil Giat was a bakery and you can see a brick from it incorporated into the garden wall of the Swan.

PS    Bebull,  Tom is in one of the photos you have posted on here.
After that we had a walk to the centre of the village where I took some photos of the property there.   At one time there would have been a shop, Post Office, bakery , public house, Chapel and a school  all within 50 yards of each other bud sadly they have all gone but it's still a beautiful and unspoilt village
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: DaveR on March 21, 2018, 08:21:00 am
Great work, Hugo.  $good$
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on March 21, 2018, 12:49:51 pm
Thanks Dave,  I thought that Tom would be the ideal person to help all those people who are interested in Bryn Pydew.    I've been through the village many times but knew little about the people and buildings until I spoke to Tom.
He hasn't posted on here before but would gladly take part in any discussion on the forum about the place

He has information on the Swan going back to the late 1700's so there is a lot that we can learn from him.     We talked a lot about various things in the village and he mentioned Ty Ganol where I believe one his ancestors once  lived.    Now by coincidence another forum member Jane B, was researching in Glanwydden about the Roberts family but she did say at the time that she had an ancestor called Jones who lived at Ty Ganol.
Who knows they may even be distantly related!       
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Robbie G on March 21, 2018, 02:29:25 pm
Good article Hugo ,you should try to get Tom to record all his knowledge on Bryn Pydew ,I am sure someone from Conwy Archives would be happy to record  the  history of the area , it will be a valuable item for future historians ,as an example I remember being told of the National Museum Of Wales sending a member of its staff to record the life of a lady who was born and bred in Cwm Eigiau , its available for all to see on their web site ,Bryun Pydew is no less important . 
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on March 21, 2018, 05:02:01 pm
Thanks Robbie, that was interesting what you had to say about recording the history of Bryn Pydew, let's hope that it does happen sometime.       I bet the article on the lady who lived in Cwm Eigiau is a fascinating read.
Cwm Eigiau is a wild and remote place to live and I wouldn't have wanted to swap places with her but it's a coincidence that you mentioned it because a forum member called Hiraeth who lived at the Swan and Skerryvore in Pydew said that she would like to have lived at Cedryn in Cwm Eigiau.
I bet it was very bleak there this Winter.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 02, 2018, 04:41:15 pm
I was reading Chris Draper's book again last night, it's called "Walks from Llandudno" and is about walks with History and even if you don't do the walks it is still a fascinating read.
In the book Chris mentions the old Swan and said that it also served as a public house before becoming a shop and that it provides a basic Post Office service for the village
Bits of this statement were disputed by our forum members but after speaking to Tom, I wonder if there is a bit of truth in everything he has said.
I know that there was a Post Office there because I've seen it myself and there has been a pub there and by all accounts it was thatched and where the present garage is now in the grounds of the Swan.
That just leaves the question of the shop.   Tom told me about Cil Giat which is pictured earlier on here and this was a bakery and shop. It was positioned somewhere near the entrance to the drive of the Swan and has since been demolished.     As the book was published in 1999 I wonder if this is where the doubts of the shop come in?
The Swan is in the old Parish of Llangystennin and part of the walk visits the Parish Church in Llangystennin and Chris has mentioned some facts about the Parish that are interesting:-
"The gravestones in the Churchyard record something of the sad decline of local villages. All near the Church are the graves of Margaret Davies, The Shop,  Glanwydden (d 1886),  James Williams of the Shop Pydew,  Jesse Roberts of the New Shop Bryn Pydew ( d1881)  four memorials commemorating the Roberts family of the Red Lion Pydew and two dedicated to Elizabeth Jones and William Thomas both of the Swan Inn Pydew.  All the shops and inns that no longer trade"
I don't know when the building called Cil Giat was demolished or if it was ever part of the grounds of the Swan but perhaps Tom or Squiggle may know a bit more?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on April 02, 2018, 05:22:53 pm
The presence of a post office is not disputed.  Mr and Mrs Wilson opened up after the Powells closed what had been the village shop. I've used that post office myself.

I think we can agree that indicating the house we face from the road (ie. Old Swan/White Orchard) is an inaccuracy although, yes, there was a pub in the grounds.

The shop is one I can't answer although we have 3 sets of people who lived there who have no knowledge of this.

Now I know who he is, I can clarify it was Tom who showed us where to look for the tiles for Cil Gait.  I can also happily state his memory and knowledge of the village will be far better than mine.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 02, 2018, 06:33:01 pm
I think that Mr F bought the Skerryvore from him so you will know him well.     Tom believes that the change of name to White Orchard was because the fruit trees in the garden were painted in a white substance but now it's back to it's original name although from my recent visit there I think the name has been changed to " Old Swan"  whereas it was previously just called the Swan.
After posting my last post I remembered that Tom has Burial Indexes for Churches in the local area and it would be interesting to know the dates and the inscription on the headstones for Elizabeth Jones and William Thomas that may throw some more light on the Swan
By the way Squiggle  was the building and the gate across the road at Cil Giat there when you lived in Pydew?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on April 02, 2018, 06:41:52 pm
He (Mr F) did indeed, Hugo.

I'd not have known of the existence of Cil Giat except for Tom.  There was nothing visible and the road then was as you know it now.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Tom Jones on April 02, 2018, 06:46:33 pm
Just a bit of info from Jones family in  1950 to present time about Swan In the 1950s it’s name was changed to White Orchard and then back but to OLD Swan owners as follows
Jones1950  to Brace
Brace1951 to Bull
Bull1954 to Thomas
Thomas 1959 to Thorburn
Thorburn 1962 to Arther
 Arther 1965 to Morrice
Morrice 1967 to Freeman
Freeman1974  to Wilson
Pre 1950 more info to follow at a later date
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 02, 2018, 06:54:47 pm
Thanks  Squigglev 2,   I can't remember them myself either but Tom will have some idea when they were taken down.   Apparently there were other gates on that section of the road past Skerryvore.
My father took me to Skerryvore when I was very young and my memory of it is rather vague.   He may have been to see Mr Bott the plumber but I'm not sure why he used to call there,

Hi Tom,  thanks for posting that info, do you know when those gates were removed and Gil Giat was demolished?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on April 02, 2018, 07:03:32 pm
No memories of gates near Skerryvore in my time either Hugo.

I'm losing track of what I'd said before but I do know the name Mr Bott and that he was a plumber.  During my time in Old Swan though I'd remember a Mr and Mrs Jones who had an Alsation dog there.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 04, 2018, 05:19:25 pm
I had a quick look in the Conwy Archives today and saw the inscriptions for the headstones of William Thomas and Elizabeth Jones that were in the Llangystennin graveyard.
William Thomas' was surprisingly written in English but Elizabeth Jones' was written in Welsh but in both instances the Swan" was mentioned but not the "Swan Inn" as reported by Chris Draper.   The people buried in the graves are as follows:-
Plot B 185
In affectionate of rememberance of William Thomas, Swan, Pydew  who died 28th December 1855 aged 84   (copied exactly as on the headstone)

Plot  A 076
Elizabeth Jones  wife of John Jones, Swan Pydew  died 28th October 1877 aged 48
Mary Jones daughter of Elizabeth and John   died 8th June 1879 aged 21
Evan Jones son of Elizabeth and John died 6th August 1892 aged 21
John Jones  husband of Elizabeth        died  30th August 1908 aged 75
Robert Jones son of Elizabeth and John   died 28th February 1915 aged 51
Sarah  Jones daughter of Elizabeth and John died 29th September 1938 aged 76

I then had a look at the 1861 Census and it shows two families living there, the Hughes' at No 1 and the Jones' at No 2  both heads of the families were agricultural labourers.    Next to No2  Swan is the "shop"  with the Williams family

It would be interesting to know when the Swan was a pub, but at least we know that it was sometime before 1855 and also that the gravestones didn't say "Swan Inn" as mentioned in the walking book
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on April 04, 2018, 06:41:17 pm
Interesting info Hugo.
As you are familiar with the Archives, I was wondering if there are any records of the Licensing Justices for the Conwy Petty Sessional district.  The licensing justices would have had records - the Brewster Sessions - but possibly these are held at Caernarfon as they will have been deposited before the Llandudno Archives were established.   If these records do exist they would be very useful for dating old pubs and inns.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 04, 2018, 10:28:01 pm
Thanks Cambrian,   I don't know if there are any records like those you have mentioned as I've never looked for them before.   It's surprising just how many records they do have and it is a possibility that they may have them.
I'll try and remember to ask them next time I go there
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 05, 2018, 03:12:35 pm
I had a look at the 1861 Census again and as in all Census records they come in some type of order.  This one appears to come past the Swan and turns left into Ffordd Y Pentre.
The Swan is a bit of a mystery as the Hughes lived in No1 and the Jones' in No 2.    Was it one building with two entrances or were there two buildings    Anyway next to the Swan is "shop"  which thanks to Tom, we now know was called Cil Giat.
Around the corner in Ffordd Y Pentre were No 1 Pydew and No 2 Pydew they must be the houses now called Fieldcroft and Karenza because next came Ala, also called Rala.
Rala is still there and when Tom and I walked down the street we noticed a planning application for it on the wall.  Apparently there is going to be modern extension attached to it
I'm afraid that I can't make out the name of the last property at the bottom of the census form but I'm sure that Tom will know the name
Islwyn which was previously called the Red Lion is across the road and has an attractive Monkey Puzzle tree in the garden
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Michael on April 06, 2018, 06:41:35 pm
  I cannot claim to know much about these pubs. But one thing strikes me. Obviously pubs in living areas of quarry villages were a focal point of the whole village.
  More recently, around 1985, I happened to be talking to a local resident at the far end of Penmaenmawr.just as they were about to pull down a pub right alongside the existing at that time main road. Prior to building the penmaenmawr/llanfairfechan ytunnel. He was talking about years ago. He stated that car travellers used to stop at this pub just to soak up the atmosphere. He said the quarrymen used to go in this pub after work. Chat for maybe three quarters of an hour. Then one would break into song. After a minute or two more would join in before after a few more minutes the locals in the pub where all in full voice.
  Rather unlike the themed pubs of nowadays ha
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: snowcap on April 06, 2018, 11:17:48 pm
You'v taken me back to my days working down Gresford coliery when i was 16 , we would be at the pit bottom waiting to get into the cage to go up when one would start singing and in no time they would all join in.Some of them 20 or more were members of the Rhos mail voice quire so you can imagine the sound, Fantastic. Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on April 07, 2018, 10:31:51 am
I had a look at the 1861 Census again and as in all Census records they come in some type of order.  This one appears to come past the Swan and turns left into Ffordd Y Pentre.
The Swan is a bit of a mystery as the Hughes lived in No1 and the Jones' in No 2.    Was it one building with two entrances or were there two buildings    Anyway next to the Swan is "shop"  which thanks to Tom, we now know was called Cil Giat.
Around the corner in Ffordd Y Pentre were No 1 Pydew and No 2 Pydew they must be the houses now called Fieldcroft and Karenza because next came Ala, also called Rala.
Rala is still there and when Tom and I walked down the street we noticed a planning application for it on the wall.  Apparently there is going to be modern extension attached to it
I'm afraid that I can't make out the name of the last property at the bottom of the census form but I'm sure that Tom will know the name
Islwyn which was previously called the Red Lion is across the road and has an attractive Monkey Puzzle tree in the garden
I'll have to see if I can find the map again but if you go back to my reply #63 on page 5, the current Old Swan wouldn't have been there in 1861 so I guess the census refers to the old pub????
Fieldcroft doesn't seem to be their either although there seems to be a property near the boundary wall for Swan? I'm not even sure Fieldcroft is on  this later map. (http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=53.2972&lon=-3.7895&layers=171&right=BingHyb[/url)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 07, 2018, 03:08:28 pm
That's interesting Squigglev2,  and I hope that Tom can step in and clarify the situation.     Tom can trace the occupiers of the Swan back to the late 1700's so it should have been on the map.
In the 1861 Census the occupation of the families living at numbers 1 & 2 Swan were agricultural labourers not publicans and I believe that the pub operated long before 1861.
The boundary of the Swan in your map shows that Cil Giat, the shop and bakery was within the grounds of the Swan so Chris Draper was correct in what he has said, just that the shop and bakery was in a separate building to the pub and the sub post office.
After you had pointed out your post on pg 5 I had a good look at the map and have changed my opinion on what I have said previously.   Fieldcroft and Karenza may have been built after 1861 but if you look on one of your maps you will see immediately after Gil Giat a path going to a building, perhaps  that building was numbers 1 & 2 Pydew?       Ala or Rala was shown on the map and is still there now.

Fieldcroft was at one time the warehouse where Mr Evans stored his goods for the shop next door ( now a house called Karenza)
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on April 07, 2018, 07:51:45 pm
That's interesting Squigglev2,  and I hope that Tom can step in and clarify the situation.     Tom can trace the occupiers of the Swan back to the late 1700's so it should have been on the map.
But is it all the same Swan? I'm getting confused but I guess the old pub/garage to the current Old Swan and the "White Orchard" building have both been "Swan" at some point? Do we know if they were ever occupied at the same time?

   Fieldcroft and Karenza may have been built after 1861 but if you look on one of your maps you will see immediately after Gil Giat a path going to a building, perhaps  that building was numbers 1 & 2 Pydew?
I'd wondered that too...
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 07, 2018, 11:03:37 pm
I'm sure that Tom said that the Swan had acted as a Sunday School in the early 1800's so if that was the case then I don't think that the Methodist Chapel would have approved of the Sunday School being held in a pub but perhaps we'll have the answers soon
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 08, 2018, 02:16:49 pm
I had a look at the online cataloge for CCBC  and wonder if the Porter Papers will throw any light on the three buildings that were once on the land belonging to the Swan?

CD4 - Porter Papers, Conwy

11 - Conveyances

30 - LLANGWSTENNIN
Cyfernod / Ref No   CD4/11/30/59
Teitl / Title   DRAFT CONVEYANCE
Ddisgrifiad / Description   1. Sarah Morgan, wife of David Morgan of Garth, Llansaintffraid, Minister of the Gospel, and others.
2. John Jones of Swan, Pydew, pa Llangwstennin, labourer.
re 3 messuages and land in pa Llangwstennin.
Consideration: £215.
Dyddiad / Date   1893 April 29
Graddau / Extent   1 item
Lefel / Level   Item
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on April 08, 2018, 06:13:07 pm
Hugo - as an aside, I see that mapsnls have now uploaded the 25" scale OS maps.  I had a look at Bryn Pydew and the series shows the buildings in Bryn Pydew in some detail but unfortunately not all are named. 
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 10, 2018, 05:13:00 pm
I've had a look at some old maps too and in those, the Swan appears to be where the garage is now and there appears to be no building shown on the spot near the road where the Swan is now.
Cil Giat is shown on the map and in the position near the present entry to the drive to the Swan so it's a bit of a mystery still
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on April 10, 2018, 06:13:36 pm
I went to the Archives today and had a look at the Porter Papers of Conwy who dealt with the sale of the Swan on 29th April 1893.   I must admit that I found the jargon and abbreviations together with the doctor's style of handwriting difficult to follow but the lady archivist sailed through it.
Very briefly there were originally 4 buildings on the site but by 1893 they had been subdivided into 3 and were known as the Swan and the Pendre.     No mention in it of Cil Giat

The Swan must have been the one divided into 2 properties because I had a look in the 1851 Census and a William Thomas,  widower age 76 Pauper and formerly a carpenter lived in the first one and David Hughes aged 22 an agricultural worker lived in the second one with his wife and child.
Next in the Census was Ty Newydd where Evan Evans and his family lived.
Cil Gate   (as written in the Census) is next in order and James Williams and his family live there

So this throws up another mystery and I haven't got the answer:-
Is the Swan in the 1851 Census the original building where the pub once was?
And is Ty Newydd  ( Eng  New House)  the building that we know now as the Swan
Cil Gate  is the same as the "shop" in the 1861 Census and James Williams was still there

I'm sorry Cambrian but I ran out of time and couldn't ask the question that you raised about any records of the Licensing Justices for the Conwy Petty Sessional district.   I'll try and remember for the next time I am there
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on May 11, 2018, 12:52:48 am
Total drift but something that has puzzled me for years.

My own one time feeling about being early English is obviously wrong but I guess that comes from all the kids of similar age to me in the village being Welsh first language, and a lot of the community outside that school age were too.

But that aside, the pub names I really can not figure. Swan is a pub name as is (perhaps more so) Red Lion but why these English Pub names in probably out of the way maybe 19C N Wales?
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Cambrian on May 11, 2018, 08:44:36 am
Interesting point.  I think many historical pub names pre-date general literacy and many folk depended on signs to locate different trades and businesses. The pub signs we see nowadays are a survivor of signs which were more common and seen outside other premises.

Usually the sign of the Swan related to the Earls of Leicester and the Red Lion was a Lancastrian symbol. Over the years the names stuck and as the use of Welsh declined the names of the pubs were added in English, especially with the advent of tourism in the 19th C.  This was so even in very Welsh speaking areas.

In the 19thC, Glan Conwy boasted several small pubs but all had English names despite the fact the majority of the population were Welsh speakers.  Examples include, The Crown, The Britannia, The Prince of Wales.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on May 11, 2018, 08:50:29 am
I don't know the answer Squiggle but perhaps in those old days it may have sounded "posh" to give them English names.   I remember my mother telling me many many years ago that it was considered "posh" to be talking English and she was referring to the turn of the 19th Century.
With the building of the railways in the 1800's tourism was on the increase and perhaps the names were Anglicised to attract those English visitors.   
Yr Alarch and  Y Llew Goch  wouldn't sound the same to their ears
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on May 11, 2018, 01:49:13 pm
One of our forum members Jom had ancestors who set up home in the 1830's in a Ty Unnos  on what is now the Llandudno promenade. They called the place Pen Y Gro  ( top of the pebbles)  but when the Prince of Wales steamer commenced to run from Liverpool to Menai Bridge they changed the name of the property to the more aristocratic, Prince of Wales.
A short time later the Prince of Wales was converted into an inn and it attracted those visitors who came here by boat, so perhaps there is something in a name.
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: squigglev2 on May 13, 2018, 11:52:58 pm
I don't know the answer Squiggle but perhaps in those old days it may have sounded "posh" to give them English names.   I remember my mother telling me many many years ago that it was considered "posh" to be talking English and she was referring to the turn of the 19th Century.
With the building of the railways in the 1800's tourism was on the increase and perhaps the names were Anglicised to attract those English visitors.   
Yr Alarch and  Y Llew Goch  wouldn't sound the same to their ears

Hmm Hugo, I don't know where we go from there (although I  think Cambrian provided a good answer to my last question)..  I think if we move forward to my first time in Pydew, it was perhaps considered "ignorant" with the Welsh speakers not to be able  to speak  English and a few of the older people were really slow (although better than say my embarrassment in Le Mans, only time I went to France, with a say seven year old better than my O level by a mile...) but on reflection, the  ignorance was really mine... Took me years to see that...
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Yvonne on July 22, 2018, 05:23:30 pm
My mother's family lived in Red Lion Bryn Pydew from the mid 1800's until the early 1900's. They are listed on the 1911 census . She never referred to it as a pub
Title: Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
Post by: Hugo on July 22, 2018, 10:25:46 pm
Just as a matter of interest Yvonne in the Census records of the mid 1800's is there a mention of the pub on them?