Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: steeljam on October 01, 2010, 07:20:26 PM

Title: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: steeljam on October 01, 2010, 07:20:26 PM
Last year in June I posted some photos of the grave stone of Beatrice Blore Browne (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steeljam/3817820741/#in/set-72157622030874462/) who is buried in the grave yard on the Great Orme.
A number of people posted details and there was a link to a discussion on this forum. Unfortunately the discussion seems to have disappeared.
I am going to the Colindale Newspaper Library tomorrow and the discussion thread would help me with the research.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: Ian on October 01, 2010, 07:32:52 PM
That was the old forum, but we'll try and dig out the relevant bit for you/.
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: DaveR on October 01, 2010, 08:42:33 PM
Do you want the bad news?  :( I've just looked in the old forum database and nothing for Beatrice is coming up, could it be it was part of the postings that were lost?

All I can offer is my article on her from the Blog:

Curious Case of Beatrice Blore-Browne

One of the most interesting gravestones in St Tudnos Church on the Great Orme in Llandudno is this one:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/3945752102_2457288268_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/3945752102/)
'She feared naught but God' (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/3945752102/#) by SnakeCorp (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr

It is the grave of Beatrice Blore Browne - born September 26th 1887 at Middlesboro, Yorkshire, died November 23rd 1921 at Delamere, Penmaenmawr (age 34).

For a long time, mystery surrounded both her life & death; it was believed that she was a racing driver who died in a car crash but the recent appearance of her death certificate reveals that she actually died from cancer. Her inscription concludes with 'She feared naught but God'.

Beatrice was certainly a unique woman - she drove a 10hp Singer car up Old Road on the Great Orme in, I think, 1911 - a daring feat which resulted in a lot of press attention, there are photos of her driving the car and reports of onlookers watching with 'bated breath' as to whether she would make it or not. I think it was this event that drew the attention of the man that later became her husband, a George Wilkins Browne.

He was another unique character - a racing driver who had held the land speed record at Brooklands (110mph I think?) for about 2 years. By 1914, he lived at 'Sunnyside' on Curzon Road, Craig Y Don, and was the manager of the Llandudno Automobile Touring Company which had a garage on Mostyn Broadway. He was renowned for being ruthless in business and there is a long history of lawsuits he brought against various people in the local area. By 1920, he had become Managing Director of Silver Motors Limited. In later years, he also became a councillor on Llandudno UDC.

In December 1920, he became the first person to drive a car both up and down Snowdon. He drove up and down the railway track in an Angus Sanderson 14hp car. This event was filmed for cinema audiences. The ascent took 1 hour 22 mins, the descent 1 hour 5 mins. He was accompanied by two of the staff from Silver Motors Ltd.

In 1920, she changed her name from Beatrice Blore to Beatrice Blore-Browne and was living at a house called Bodeon in Cadnant Park, Conwy. Her death, on the November 23rd 1921 at the early age of 34, cannot have come as a surprise as she had been suffering from cancer for the previous two years. Her unique gravestone has kept her memory alive, a reminder of a woman keen to push the boundaries of what it was considered acceptable for women to do.

Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: steeljam on October 02, 2010, 09:35:28 AM
Thanks for the information.
It gives me some dates for my research.
Will post any findings here.
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: DaveR on October 02, 2010, 09:39:00 AM
Look forward to seeing them, Steeljam. :)
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: steeljam on October 02, 2010, 02:16:00 PM
I checked 1911 but could not see a report. Didn't have much time this visitWill expand the search on future visits.
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: Trojan on October 04, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
Here's a photo of George Browne in 1920 after taking three and half hours to reach the summit of Snowdon by car. The photograph was taken at the platforms of the old summit station.
Title: Re: Beatrice Blore Browne
Post by: DaveR on October 04, 2010, 09:19:28 AM
Nice find, Trojan!  *&(
Title: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: treslade on October 14, 2010, 01:52:59 PM
I am looking for the baptism of Agnes Farrell born 15 March 1882 in The Union Workhouse Conway......  mother Mary Farrell.  I have searched the local area without finding her, her mother Mary was a Catholic and I looked in the Catholic Church in Bangor, but it wasn't there, I am hoping someone seeing this may have come across the baptism.

Mary at the time of the 1881 census, was living in at the The Refreshment Rooms in Mostyn St, Llandudno..............I don't know why she had the child in the workhouse. Mary married in Oct 1882 to John Owen( born Liverpool), he was not the father.

Agnes was brought up believing her grandparents were her parents, Francis and Bridget Farrell of  20 William St, Bangor ( 1871) and 21 Union St ( 1881 and 1891)........Agnes gave her father's name as Francis Farrell, when she later marries ( Francis and Bridget Farrells are Irish, all their children  were born in Bangor).

Agnes shows in the 1891 census as Agnes Owen daughter of John and Mary Owens at 3 James Street. Llandudno - although I don't think she went by that surname, she thought Mary was her sister. By 1901 Mary is dead and her husband has a new wife, and Agnes was put into service in Derbyshire.

I have tried to find some trace of Agnes , with a baptism or a school she attended. I contacted the Conwy Record office and she did not attend Lloyd School , St. George School or St Beunos School..........maybe she attended a Sunday school ( do they keep records?), or do you think she went to Bangor to school and she was staying rather than living with John and Mary Owens in LLandudno?

Any little clues to where you may think there may be a trace of Agnes, would be very gratefully received.


Many Thanks Lee  
Title: Re: Agnes Farrell in: Bangor, Conway or Llandudno
Post by: Llechwedd on October 19, 2010, 12:16:28 PM
Parts of workhouses were used as "hospitals" for poor people they were not necessarily residents.  Have you tried the Registrar at Llandudno Registry Office, Town Hall, Lloyd Steet? he can look through 1882 for you and will sell you a certificate if available for 9.00.  Try BMD, North Wales and also Family Search the Mormon site.
Title: Re: Agnes Farrell in: Bangor, Conway or Llandudno
Post by: suepp on October 19, 2010, 03:10:20 PM
It might be worth contacting the Catholic Church in Llandudno which  had a very small congregation at that time
Title: Re: Agnes Farrell in: Bangor, Conway or Llandudno
Post by: treslade on October 19, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
Thank you for the tips, we have a birth certificate for Agnes Farrell, which has no father's name and the address of the workhouse in Conwy..........we feel she would have a baptism somewhere local to the workhouse as it wasn't done in her local church in Bangor................

I will look at the church in Llandudno, thank you


Lee
Title: Re: Agnes Farrell in: Bangor, Conway or Llandudno
Post by: Llechwedd on October 21, 2010, 01:59:11 PM
You can also look at baptismal record at Llandudno Archive in Lloyd Street scroll through the whole year.  Mind you children were not necessarily baptised immediately after birth some were a few years old.
Title: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: suepp on November 01, 2010, 10:05:07 AM
This was a popular thread in the old forum so I thought it worth reviving, so that people could post  interesting facts  or queries relating to Llandudno's early families. My own origins in  Llandudno go back to the  late 1890's when my Great Grandfather D.J. Roberts  moved to the town  and worked as a house painter. He lodged at Waverly House Llewellyn Street and married my  Great Grandmother at the Welsh Calvinistic Chapel  in 1898. He was born in Llanderfel. When I discovered this fact through looking at census returns  I realised that the name of their house "Bryn Derfel" was of personal significance.

Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Ian on November 01, 2010, 10:15:44 AM
Suepp:

Excellent idea, restarting this topic. I've merged it with the other two topics about early families, so that we now have a single topic which relates to all Llandudno, CB and Conwy early families.
Title: Looking for William Henry Jones info
Post by: mikeh on November 11, 2010, 11:40:02 AM
Mike has asked me to remove this post as a relative mentioned is still alive.
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: suepp on November 16, 2010, 04:19:21 PM
welcome to the forum, I've got a 1929 directory in which there are several  W.H.Jones' but without knowing  the occupation it would be difficult to identify your relation, there is an A Jones at 16 Council Street which is listed as "Apartments".  Llandudno Junction Listings are similarly vague. I have a couple of 1930's holiday guides which I will check for the Guest house, sorry not to be of more help!

Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Hugo on November 16, 2010, 06:57:58 PM
That 1929 Street Index of yours is very handy Suepp, it saves a trip to the Archives!      I was there on Monday and had a look at the Street Indexes for 1925,1929 and 1939 but there are a number of W H Jones' in it so it is impossible to say which one is the person we are looking for.  What is good about the street indexes is that they list the main breadwinners alphabetically and make it easier to find them unless their name happens to be Jones!   ???
There was a W H Jones living at No 1 Oxford Road Llandudno (which is around the corner to Council Street)  but without more to go on I couldn't tell if this was the person Mikeh is looking for.
No trace of Charles Edward Jones in any of the indexes either.
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: mikeh on November 17, 2010, 01:38:14 PM
Thankyou for being so helpful.
I've checked on my copy of my nain's (Gwladys Thomas) wedding certificate and it says that they were married at Minera Parish Church 1923 and William Henry Jones was a BUILDER aged 24, his father's name is Thomas Jones and he was also a builder from 17 Council st, Llanrhos, Llandudno.

Blodwen Thomas married Charles E Jones in 1927 at Conway.
Laura Thomas who lived with them was a daughter of Gwladys and Blodwen's brother Thomas Thomas, Laura lived in Llandudno Junction all her life even after her aunt blodwen and uncle charlie died.
Hope this extra bit of info helps.
 
$thanx$
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Hugo on November 17, 2010, 03:17:44 PM
Both W H Jones and C E Jones should be in the 1929 Street Indexes given the details you have supplied Mikeh.  Was Charles a builder too?
17 Council Street  Llanrhos may actually be 17 Council Street Llandudno as it is in the Parish of Llanrhos ( or Eglwysrhos in Welsh)  as a lot of the early records refer to the Parish rather than the town.
There is a village called Llanrhos nearby but I don't know of any Council Street there now.
The Council Street in Llandudno has been renamed Norman Road for some reason.    I'm not sure when I'm going to the Archives next but I'll look again then.
It's a longshot but Micox did a fantastic family tree that he put on a previous forum (now deleted) and I think he was related to a Jones family who originated from Isaac and Miriam Jones nicknamed Yr Ogof as they lived on a cave on the Orme (prior to 1877)    If your relative is from an old Llandudno family then he could be related although there are hundreds of Jones' in the town.
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: suepp on November 17, 2010, 04:23:13 PM
There's a Mrs R Jones (Apartments) at 17 Council Street. In the alphabetical listings one of the WH Jones' are listed as Builders but there is a W Jones Labourer at Elvira, 4 Pleasant Street which is  listed as "Apartments" in the Street Section and there is a W Jones & Sons Builders, Contractors and Undertakers at Gogarth Works, 7 James Street with the Residential address for the same person as "Bryn Aber"in Lloyd Street, The street address states his occupation as "Plasterer"

There again there are also  W Jones' listed with no occupation stated!  As for Laura do you have a surname? or the name of her husband if she was married, or even   the approximate year she was born, as after 1912 mothers maiden names are often listed on Birth entries
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Micox on November 30, 2010, 05:34:44 PM
I don't recognise those Joneses as my small chunk of that variety but I'll keep the possibility open.

What I am annoyed at is the removal of my original Stallard/Jones entries on this forum. As I remember I started the genealogy forum and did a lot of work to give it substance. I also approached it with the knowledge that all the entries (by some who are now dead) could be a contribution to Llandudno's social history. Now my work and the hard work of many others seems to have been just thrown into the rubbish bin out of hand.

Somewhat of a disincentive to contribute further to this forum.  $smack$
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: DaveR on November 30, 2010, 05:52:27 PM
I think you're thinking of the Llandudno Local forum, Micox. This is a completely different forum, with different owners, we would never dream of throwing relevant posts away.

We do have a copy of the old Forum database (kindly supplied by Kindways) and have tried to retrieve posts from the old forum but it's very difficult to do and many posts are missing due to the various problems the old forum had. Nobody lost more posts than myself on the old forums (Llandudno and Colwyn Bay Locals), representing many hours of research etc.

Both Ian and I have have contributed many hours in setting up this new forum, not to mention several hundred pounds of our money in order to provide a service for the local community.
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Trojan on December 07, 2010, 06:32:09 PM
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Nobody lost more posts than myself on the old forums

I did.  :(
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Yorkie on December 07, 2010, 06:45:26 PM
So did I . . . . . .  >>>
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Micox on January 30, 2011, 07:05:52 PM
I've posted below my Llandudno family branches. My Gt Grandparents John and Ann Jones moved to Llandudno from Welshpool in the early 1870s and their children permeated every corner of the town. The second list is my family on my mother's side, my Nain's children - just one of the well known Llandudno branches:

Descendants of Jones, John
1.   Jones, John (b. 1837 - Llanfair Caereinion)
sp. Jones, Ann (b. 1836 - Llanwyddelan)
2.   Jones, Evan (b. 1859 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
2.   Jones, Jack (b. 1861 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
2.   Jones, Sarah Jane (b. 1863 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
2.   Jones, Anne (b. 1865 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
2.   Jones, Lucy (b. 1867 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
2.   Jones, Rose (b. 12 July 1869 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire, d. 2 April 1972 - 6 Cwm Place, Llandudno)
sp. Stallard, Frederick (b. 9 February 1865 - Sandhill Street, Commercial Brow, Newton, Cheshire, d. 12 November 1935 - Llandudno)
2.   Jones, Mary (b. 1871 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
sp. Ogo), John Jones (Jack yr (b. - Llandudno)
2.   Jones, Maggie (b. 1873 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire)
sp. , Griffith Hughes
sp. , Hughes
2.   Jones, Elizabeth (Betty) (b. 1874 - Welshpool, d. 1910)
sp. Beaumont, George (b. 1869 - Ludlow, d. 1949)


Descendants of Jones, Rose
1.   Jones, Rose (b. 12 July 1869 - Welshpool, Montgomeryshire, d. 2 April 1972 - 6 Cwm Place, Llandudno)
sp. Stallard, Frederick (b. 9 February 1865 - Sandhill Street, Commercial Brow, Newton, Cheshire, d. 12 November 1935 - Llandudno)
2.   Stallard, Charles (b. 1889)
sp. Hobson, Leah
2.   Stallard, Mollie (b. 1891 - Llandudno, d. 1947 - Llandudno)
sp. Goodey, Len (b. - London, d. )
2.   Stallard, Jack (b. 1893, d. 1919 - Llandudno)
2.   Stallard, Bob (b. 1894 - Llandudno, d. 1930 - Llandudno)
sp. , Sally
2.   Stallard, Norah Anne Trilby (Tillie) (b. 1896 - Llandudno)
sp. Charlton, ? (d. between 1914 and 1918)
sp. Hughes, Joe (d. - Llandudno)
2.   Stallard, Fred (1) (b. 1898 - Llandudno, d. 1978 - Llandudno)
sp. Beaumont, Rose (b. 1903 - Liverpool, d. 1987 - Llandudno)
2.   (Mellie), May Elizabeth Stallard (b. 1900 - Llandudno)
sp. Edwards, Harry
sp. Duckenfield, Jim
2.   Stallard, Rose (b. 1903 - Llandudno)
sp. , Fred
sp. Humphreys, (bos'n Cox)
2.   (Nell), Ellen Stallard (b. 1905 - Llandudno, d. 2000 - Llandudno)
sp. Pritchard, Clifford Bradley (b. 1900 - Wrexham, d. 1 January 1976 - Llandudno)
2.   Stallard, Lucy (b. between 1906 and 1907 - Llandudno, d. 2001 - Llandudno)
sp. Lewis, Albert
2.   Stallard, Marguerite (b. 25 December 1910 - Alexandra Road, Llandudno, N.Wales, d. 17 September 1969 - 17 Cwm Place, Llandudno)
sp. Cox, John (1) (b. 21 March 1910 - Penrhynside, N. Wales, d. 21 January 1994 - Bungay, Suffolk)

Heddwch.

Mike.  <:<:<:<
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Sara on January 30, 2011, 10:39:25 PM
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There's a Mrs R Jones (Apartments) at 17 Council Street. In the alphabetical listings one of the WH Jones' are listed as Builders but there is a W Jones Labourer at Elvira, 4 Pleasant Street which is  listed as "Apartments" in the Street Section and there is a W Jones & Sons Builders, Contractors and Undertakers at Gogarth Works, 7 James Street with the Residential address for the same person as "Bryn Aber"in Lloyd Street, The street address states his occupation as "Plasterer"

There again there are also  W Jones' listed with no occupation stated!  As for Laura do you have a surname? or the name of her husband if she was married, or even   the approximate year she was born, as after 1912 mothers maiden names are often listed on Birth entries

The W.Jones of Gogarth Works 7 James Street was my great great grandfather. He married Jane Hughes daughter of Richard Hughes of Anglesey. William Jones had four sons Richard, Gwilym, John Tudno (my great grandfather) and Joseph.
Title: Re: Welcome!
Post by: karenjadejoy on February 25, 2014, 07:17:10 PM
Hello,
i guess is this is where i intro myself.......

 I have been reading around this forum for a while,  looking into Llandudno and trying to find out bits and pieces of info.
My grandmother was born in Llandudno in 1900; Margaret Anne pearl Hughes (another Hughes !!! plus Owens!! when one goes back a bit)

Margaret married my grandfather there  a Harry Southworth.
Harry's Father - john "jack" Southworth played in the pavilion Orchestra for thirty years in the summer seasons. along with at least one brother Tom. during the early 1900s

i have gleaned much interesting info reading the threads here, and have been reminded of bits and pieces from my own childhood visits to Llandudno and memories (my grandparents emigrated to waunfawr,  caernarfon, though i grew up in Liverpool :) )

Thus i have a few names and places which i am trying to get an overall picture of,  how they lived who or what they were etc etc
look forward to connecting with you all.
Karen
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: Hugo on February 25, 2014, 09:01:41 PM
Welcome to the forum karenjadejoy and I hope you can get the answers to any request you may make for info on here.
I presume that this is your G Grandfather Jack Southworth who must have been a very talented and versatile character:-

" THE career of gentleman centre-forward Jack Southworth carried a remarkable symmetry.

In 139 appearances for Blackburn Rovers, Blackburn Olympic and Everton, he scored 139 goals.

He won three England caps - and scored three goals, and in his second - and sadly - final season for Everton he had completed nine matches and scored nine goals, when injury cruelly ended his career.

But over the Christmas period of 1893, the player dubbed ``the prince of dribblers'' by one newspaper substantially bumped up his ratio.

After two goals at Sheffield United and one at Blackburn earlier in the month, Southworth returned to the Toffees' new Goodison home and scored four in an 8-1 annihilation of Sheffield Wednesday.
Off the pitch Southworth proved just as talented as he had been on it.

In 1910 he became a member of the Pier Pavilion orchestra at Llandudno where he played the tuba. Later he joined the BBC Northern Orchestra.

He was also a scratch golfer, an expert billiards and snooker player and a crown green bowler who won several tournaments after the age of 80.

He died a couple of months short of his 90th birthday in 1956 at his daughter's home in Wavertree, still the proud possessor of Everton's individual scoring record. "
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: karenjadejoy on February 26, 2014, 03:38:10 PM
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Welcome to the forum karenjadejoy and I hope you can get the answers to any request you may make for info on here.
I presume that this is your G Grandfather Jack Southworth who must have been a very talented and versatile character:-

" THE career of gentleman centre-forward Jack Southworth carried a remarkable symmetry.




He died a couple of months short of his 90th birthday in 1956 at his daughter's home in Wavertree, still the proud possessor of Everton's individual scoring record. "


hi hugo, norman thanks for the welcome
thats the man !!!

i believe he and his family (my grandfather and his sister) used to stay in Rose cottage, and he used to play golf at the old 18 link course on the summit of the orme.

thanks i do enjoy this forum   i have found odd bits and pieces and just moments of interest to read.
 
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: Hugo on March 04, 2014, 06:25:01 PM
Karen,  I'm not sure what you are looking for or how much you know about your Grandmother but I had a look at some Census records in the Library today and I'll post something on the forum later tonight and it'll be  under the heading " Genealogy and Research"
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: HistoryBoy78 on March 07, 2014, 12:39:03 PM
Hi Everybody and thank you for allowing me onto the post, I am a keen amateur Local Historian, originally from Conwy, and Im looking forward to finding out much more from the site!   I am currently looking into Llandudno Museum and FE Chardon himself, so Im sure Ill have many questions soon, thanks once again  ...
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: suepp on March 08, 2014, 12:41:41 PM
Hi History Boy and Karen

Karen the 1929 directory shows that John Southworth Musician lived at Sunny Mount, 15 Old Road
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: Hugo on March 13, 2014, 04:01:51 PM
Karen,  have a look at genealogy and research on this forum and see if these are your relatives.   
Title: Re: Re: Welcome!
Post by: karenjadejoy on March 19, 2014, 09:28:58 PM
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Hi History Boy and Karen

Karen the 1929 directory shows that John Southworth Musician lived at Sunny Mount, 15 Old Road

thanks for that info suepp that i didnt know,  and hugo i have basic info on my relatives but not alot detailed.  i was badsically just starting to look into the Llandudno area, and key words that i have, and from the bits of census and info i have gleaned. i havnt managed to find connections on ishmaels side other than his birth and family names.   and i was hunting itmes about the pavilion and johns connection to that and if or my grandfather  Harry southworth also played there as a cellist  pre or post WW1,    thanks for the input its appreciated

silly question  when you say 1929 directory what do you actually mean? a record made in
llandudno or the census recs  and does john have hos family there at the time
things like that i am hunting up any snippets really.  that help form a picture.

Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2014, 02:11:38 PM
Karen,  Suepp is referring to the 1929 Street Index of Llandudno.   In the index only the name of the "breadwinner" of the household is listed not the other members of their family.
Their names are  listed alphabetically and are therefore easy to trace and the directory shows where they lived.   Then the streets are listed showing the names of those people living there.
The Archives also has these Indexes for 1911, 1914, 1926, 1929, 1939 and another in the 1960's
Title: Re: Genealogy - Llandudno early families
Post by: karenjadejoy on March 20, 2014, 05:55:02 PM
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Karen,  Suepp is referring to the 1929 Street Index of Llandudno.   In the index only the name of the "breadwinner" of the household is listed not the other members of their family.
Their names are  listed alphabetically and are therefore easy to trace and the directory shows where they lived.   Then the streets are listed showing the names of those people living there.
The Archives also has these Indexes for 1911, 1914, 1926, 1929, 1939 and another in the 1960's
aha!!  thanks shall remember this bit of useful info:  im sure no where near as this geneology hunting up as you guys appear to be  but i learn !!!