Three Towns Forum

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: DaveR on October 24, 2011, 02:06:58 pm

Title: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on October 24, 2011, 02:06:58 pm
Proposed changes to Bus Timetables:

Proposed changes to buses 5/13/14/15/27

5 - Will serve Llandudno Junction Station on evenings and Sundays to connect with bus 13. Sunday evening times from Llandudno revised to 1850/1950/2050/2150/2250.

13 - The terminus in Llandudno is revised to North Western Gardens (stop W).

15 - Will be replaced after 0900 between Llandudno and Conwy by bus 19 with buses working through but changing numbers in Llandudno.

Most evening/Sunday buses on routes 14/15/27 are replaced by an improved 13 service.

Proposed changes to buses 19/23/24/25/73/74

19 - Revised in Llandudno to start from North Western Gardens (stop W) then via Mostyn Street/Gloddaeth Street/West Shore/Maesdu Road to/from Hospital Road.

Journeys diverted via Bryn Gosol Road/Bryn Seiriol/Hawes Drive.

Diverted between Rowen and Talybont via Church House with most journeys extended to Betws-y-Coed.

23/24 - Diverted eastbound in Colwyn Bay via new stop in Bay View Road.

25 - Revised in Llandudno to start from North Western Gardens (stop W) then via Mostyn Street/Gloddaeth Street/St Andrews Drive/Trinity Avenue/Maesdu Road to/from Hospital Road.

Journeys extended from North Western Gardens to/from Liddell Drive.

73 - Liddell Drive section replaced by 25.

74 - Replaced by services 19/25/75.

Full details here:
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/upload/public/attachments/472/bus_changesr.pdf (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/upload/public/attachments/472/bus_changesr.pdf)

You can give your opinions on the changes here:
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=143&doc=29017&Language=1 (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=143&doc=29017&Language=1)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Llechwedd on November 15, 2011, 12:00:16 pm
BBC Wales news last night started quite hopefully regarding trains and new money etc. etc.  Then they stated that so much money will be spent on valleys trains.  Whilst I appreciate that many people commute to Cardiff daily to work and need a good service what about north Wales?

 Arriva is in permanent trundle mode.  It should not take almost four hours to travel by train from Llandudno to Cardiff, often via Crewe.  They always neglect us and the train "service" is rubbish.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: born2run on November 17, 2011, 08:28:20 pm
I don't really understand those changes just from reading

But I do know buses around here are god awful and unacceptable! Especially at the price they charge.

On a Sunday - buses to Conwy and Llysfaen one every 2 HOURS! Miss that and you have a ridiculous wait :roll:
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 18, 2012, 11:36:18 am
I've travelled on the Sunday service a few times in the Summer and it is usually so busy that it is standing room only by the time you get to Llanrwst. It should be expanded, not axed.

FEARS a Sunday Conwy Valley train service could be axed have angered an Assembly Member.

A new timetable, which will come into effect in May, fails to include the three train services between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog on a Sunday, as well as the replacement bus service during the winter months.

North Wales Assembly Member Aled Roberts, confirmed he has asked the Minister for Local Government and Communities, Carl Sargeant AM, to explain why the Sunday service has been cut.

He said: “This could be a serious blow to the local tourist industry which has benefited from the publicity given to Conwy Line in recent years.
“It is vital that we give our tourist industry all the support it needs and I am not convinced that cutting the summer Sunday service on the Conwy Valley Railway will help. If the service is not being cut then the omission on the timetable needs to be corrected immediately.”

Llandudno Junction councillor Mike Priestley said the the loss of the service could effect tourism
He added: “We should be encouraging more people to use our local railways and take cars off the road."

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/109559/sunday-rail-cut-fears.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/109559/sunday-rail-cut-fears.aspx)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: martin on January 18, 2012, 02:33:23 pm
Dave, the timetable link you posted last October, is that still extant please?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on January 18, 2012, 05:05:03 pm
I wonder why the Minister is asked.  The service is surely operated by Arriva Trains Wales - it might be better if Aled and Mike asked them in the first instance.  As the December timetable has only been out a few weeks it is curious how May's timetable is out and about.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Pendragon on January 18, 2012, 05:09:20 pm
I always use the online version.

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=5126 (http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=5126)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: martin on January 18, 2012, 05:13:39 pm
 $thanx$
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: dwsi on January 18, 2012, 05:22:52 pm
I always use transport direct for train/car/bus route planning http://bit.ly/wJT5iM (http://bit.ly/wJT5iM)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 18, 2012, 05:58:47 pm
I wonder why the Minister is asked.  The service is surely operated by Arriva Trains Wales - it might be better if Aled and Mike asked them in the first instance.  As the December timetable has only been out a few weeks it is curious how May's timetable is out and about.
Arriva provide the service (indeed, all rail services in Wales) on behalf of the Welsh Government.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 18, 2012, 06:01:52 pm
If you have an iPhone or iPad, then there is a great little App for telling you bus times. It uses GPS to work out which Bus Stop you are standing at and then tells you the times of the next few buses. Its called NextBuses and costs 69p:

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/nextbuses/id362006676?mt=8 (http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/nextbuses/id362006676?mt=8)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Pendragon on January 18, 2012, 06:11:30 pm
I'd love an iphone.  I was gutted at xmas as my lad had said I could have his old one as his was due for upgrade and then unfortunately he got it nicked in Manchester.  :(  Fortunately his upgrade was due the week after.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 18, 2012, 06:20:48 pm
I'd love an iphone.  I was gutted at xmas as my lad had said I could have his old one as his was due for upgrade and then unfortunately he got it nicked in Manchester.  :(  Fortunately his upgrade was due the week after.
I cant recommend them highly enough, a fantastic device. Its just like having a mini computer with you. Mine wasn't new, it was an unwanted gift on ebay, there are some good bargains to be had on there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Apple-iPhone-3GS-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/102540509?LH_ItemCondition=2000 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Apple-iPhone-3GS-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/102540509?LH_ItemCondition=2000)|2500&_dmpt=UK_Mobile_Phones&_pcategid=9355&_pcatid=810&_refkw=iphone+3gs
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 18, 2012, 06:49:17 pm
I want one now, I'm very pleased with the ipad that I have D)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: dwsi on January 18, 2012, 07:55:45 pm
I'd love an iphone.  I was gutted at xmas as my lad had said I could have his old one as his was due for upgrade and then unfortunately he got it nicked in Manchester.  :(  Fortunately his upgrade was due the week after.
I cant recommend them highly enough, a fantastic device. Its just like having a mini computer with you. Mine wasn't new, it was an unwanted gift on ebay, there are some good bargains to be had on there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Apple-iPhone-3GS-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/102540509?LH_ItemCondition=2000 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Apple-iPhone-3GS-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/102540509?LH_ItemCondition=2000)|2500&_dmpt=UK_Mobile_Phones&_pcategid=9355&_pcatid=810&_refkw=iphone+3gs

better link -> http://bit.ly/yZSjsl (http://bit.ly/yZSjsl)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 19, 2012, 11:45:01 am
Seems it was all a false alarm:

A POLITICIAN has made a blunder following a report he released last week in which he claimed the future of Arriva Trains Wales’s Sunday Conwy Valley rail service was in doubt.

Aled Roberts, the Liberal Democrat AM for North Wales, said: “I asked the Welsh Government to confirm whether there will be a Sunday service on the Conwy Valley railway when the new timetable comes into effect next May.
“The new timetables have recently become available. There is no mention of the three train services between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog every Sunday from May to early September and the replacement bus service during the winter months has also been left out.

“I submitted a question to the minister for communities, Carl Sargeant, asking him to explain why the new Arriva Trains Wales timetable shows no Sunday service on the Conwy Valley railway.”

But it seems Mr Roberts must have misread his timetable, because this week Arriva Trains Wales confirmed there have never been any plans to withdraw the Summer Sunday services on the Conwy Valley line.

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/01/19/arriva-trains-wales-confirm-the-conwy-valley-sunday-service-is-safe-despite-concerns-by-lib-dem-am-aled-roberts-55243-30151074/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/01/19/arriva-trains-wales-confirm-the-conwy-valley-sunday-service-is-safe-despite-concerns-by-lib-dem-am-aled-roberts-55243-30151074/)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 27, 2012, 12:26:15 pm
Due to essential engineering work, buses will replace all trains between Rhyl and Holyhead and Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno on Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th January, 2012.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on March 18, 2012, 05:17:56 pm
Not a sight you see every day, the no. 14 bus being towed away along the Prom. There was a large pool of oil in the bus stop by M & Co. I suspect the two facts may be connected...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: snowcap on March 18, 2012, 07:22:53 pm
or was it parked on double yellows?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on April 02, 2012, 06:15:28 pm
After many years, the No. 73 'Llandudno Local' bus service has ended. Residents of the Great Orme should note that the service has been replaced a slimmed down No.19 service, basically an extension of the current Betws Y Coed-Llandudno service, details/timetable to be found here:

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=13826 (http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=13826)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on April 03, 2012, 09:49:30 am
THOUSANDS more seats for rail passengers are to be introduced after a surge in commuters using trains.

Enhanced services on popular Arriva Trains Wales routes across the region will start from May 14.

In total the train operator is looking to introduce more than 340,000 extra seats a year on its rail services in Wales and English Borders from next month.

Train services will be reorganised for better efficiency to link up with Holyhead ferry times, in some cases the number of carriages will be doubled, and extra trains added.


Figures for Wrexham General Station, Ruabon and Chirk, have shown a massive growth in passenger use between 2002 and 2010.

Wrexham General usage has grown 60% from 364,267 to 584,176; Ruabon 150% from 28,470 to 71,346 and Chirk 78% from 31,532 to 56,310.

In addition, through re-phasing of maintenance schedules, ATW said it was gearing up to provide further increased capacity for the major events occurring during the year. These will include the Olympics events in Cardiff and the Royal Welsh Show at Builth Wells which overlap this summer.

Seasonal increases in the number of services and seating capacity during the summer holiday travel peak will also be a welcome addition company chiefs said.

Mike Bagshaw, Commercial Director at Arriva Trains Wales, said: “Arriva Trains Wales remains committed to the enhancement of services above and beyond our franchise commitments.”

Johnstown councillor Dave Bithell said: “I have been campaigning for a long time for better services and this is welcome news.”

For any service changes visit www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk (http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk).

Improvements....

13.09 Birmingham International to Holyhead Increased carriages.

15.09 Birmingham International to Holyhead Increased carriages.

17.30 Holyhead to Shrewsbury Increased carriages. Revised afternoon departures from Holyhead The 15.23 and 16.38 departures will be re-timed to 15.44 and 16.50.15.44 Holyhead to Birmingham International Faster service.16.35 Llandudno Junction to Chester Additional service. Increased carriages.

Revised afternoon departures from Holyhead The 15.23 and 16.38 departures will be re-timed to 15.44 and 16.50.15.44 Holyhead to Birmingham International Faster service.16.35 Llandudno Junction to Chester Additional service.The 15.23 and 16.38 departures will be re-timed to 15.44 and 16.50.

15.44 Holyhead to Birmingham International Faster service.

16.35 Llandudno Junction to Chester Additional service. Additional service.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/03/a-third-of-a-more-million-seats-for-rail-users-in-wales-55578-30679766/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/03/a-third-of-a-more-million-seats-for-rail-users-in-wales-55578-30679766/)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on April 03, 2012, 09:58:53 am
Let's say one unit holds 100 people.  It does 20 trips a day.  That's 2,000 extra "seats".  It works 6 days a week so we are now up to 12,000 extra seats.  If it works 250 days (allowing for maintenance etc) a year that is  500,000 "extra seats" a years. Perhaps my maths is wrong but it looks to me as we are getting one additional unit. I thought spin was just a politician's preserve.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on April 03, 2012, 10:05:11 am
That's quite possibly true, but even one extra unit can make quite a difference! I remember the time I was waiting at Bangor station last year with at least 50 other people and a 2 car 175 turned up that was already packed to the gunnels, even to the extent of there being a mountain of luggage in each vestible that had to be literally climbed over to get into the standing room only carriage. It was worse than Indian Railways! One extra carriage on that train would have made all the difference.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Bri Roberts on April 03, 2012, 06:41:18 pm
After many years, the No. 73 'Llandudno Local' bus service has ended. Residents of the Great Orme should note that the service has been replaced a slimmed down No.19 service, basically an extension of the current Betws Y Coed-Llandudno service, details/timetable to be found here:

That probably explains why I saw a No. 25 (rather than a No. 73) travelling down Clarence Road towards Liddell Drive in C-y-D this afternoon
Title: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: born2run on June 08, 2012, 09:38:21 pm
Don't use buses too often if I can help it, as not only are they well over priced but round here they are about as reliable as England's defence  L0L

But got on the bus this morning to get a return to Conwy Morfa - normally £3.80 and was told they no longer do returns! So it'll be two singles at £2.50 each! What a disgrace - I also have no doubt this will probably lose the company even more money - as today I decided to walk back weather and all! And sometimes I'll buy a return only to be offered a lift back and thus waste the extra £1.30 fare I've paid.. sure I won't be the only one.

I have no idea how Arriva can justify suddenly putting their fares up by almost a third whilst cutting back services but I'd be interested to hear - wonder if it's anything to do with the Assembly's bright idea of  giving free fares to pensioners?
Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2012, 10:08:51 pm
You obviously don't use them very often - return fares were scrapped on the 1st April!

The reason is that WG have cut the Public Transport Grant, leaving Arriva no option but to increase fares to fill the financial gap.
Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: born2run on June 08, 2012, 10:16:15 pm
Good date for it! :o

If I do use the bus I often have to get a day ticket anyway as most journeys require at least 2 buses

The last time I used them on a Sunday to get from Llandudno - to Llysfaen to Conwy and back again I think it was something like 10 buses altogether  &shake&

I'd be surprised if they make the revenue they need - I work at a place with over a hundred people and I know of about 3 or 4 who use the bus - the reasons being in the main the unreliability and lack of buses and the second being cost.
Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2012, 10:36:50 pm
To be fair, the main services like the 5 to Bangor/Caernarfon (every 15 mins during the day) and the 12 Llandudno-Rhyl (every 12 mins during the day) I find to be very reliable. Anyone using the buses regularly would surely get a monthly pass at £56.
Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2012, 12:40:13 am
The notoriously unreliable No19 Gt Orme bus which I use regularly is now £1.40 to get me into town.
Of course I am usually the only one paying it, as all the passengers are pensioners who ride for free.

A taxi, door to door and available when I want it, is £2.20

I believe that this is known as a no brainer.
Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: SDQ on June 09, 2012, 11:07:28 am
Llwynon Rd to town = £1.40!!!  :o
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Fester on June 10, 2012, 12:12:39 am
Yes SDQ, for all of THREE STOPS!

It was 90p only 2 year ago.... and it has gone up several times a year since then.

The driver told me (in front of all my lady pensioner friends) that he worked an 8 hour shift on Sunday on the Orme Summit to Llanrwst route, and his bus was always full of passengers.

But, his total cash takings amounted to THIRTEEN POUNDS .... because almost everyone rode for free!

I'm sorry, but this is neither fair, nor sustainable.

Title: Re: Arriva stopping return fares on buses
Post by: Paddy on June 10, 2012, 06:03:52 am
The notoriously unreliable No19 Gt Orme bus which I use regularly is now £1.40 to get me into town.
Of course I am usually the only one paying it, as all the passengers are pensioners who ride for free.

A taxi, door to door and available when I want it, is £2.20

I believe that this is known as a no brainer.

Fester, you will find that if there are more than two passengers, a taxi is almost always cheaper than the bus.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on June 10, 2012, 11:36:43 am
I don't think the bus company is not paid for the "free" journeys.  I recall Express Motors creating because the train company were getting more for the Llandudno - Blaenau journeys than they were from WAG on their X1 service.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Nemesis on June 10, 2012, 11:43:10 am
I rode to Rhyl on the bus a year or so ago-- what for I don't know, but I did-- and curiosity got the better of me-- I started counting. The bus was packed all the way and only 5 people paid. !!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on June 10, 2012, 02:21:02 pm
I don't think the bus company is not paid for the "free" journeys.  I recall Express Motors creating because the train company were getting more for the Llandudno - Blaenau journeys than they were from WAG on their X1 service.
That's not really Fester's point though, I think. He's sort of saying that working people are having to pay inflated fare prices, as well as effectively paying for everyone else on the bus to travel free via subsidies paid to the bus companies from their taxes.

I think a fair case could be made, given the state of the country's finances, that the free bus ride scheme be replaced with a 75% off normal fare scheme or similar.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on July 30, 2012, 09:00:40 am
Wales' £70m free bus passes let alcoholics travel to the pub free

Wales' £70m-a-year free bus pass scheme is highly vulnerable to fraud – with alcoholics using them to travel to the pub among other widespread problems, say industry insiders.

The cost of the free travel scheme has soared from £17.7m to £69m in the decade since it was launched by the Welsh Government in 2002.

Bus managers say nearly a third of free journeys are taken by under-60s who have been judged to need a pass, even though 90% of the free passes are issued to pensioners.

And they argue that many of the passes are routinely misused, with alcoholics using passes – issued to them because of their dependency – to travel to the pub.

A Welsh transport consultant, who also asked not to be named, said he had heard evidence of this from drivers on a route between rural towns.

“There’s been some animosity from other passengers that alcoholics have a free pass to get drunk and they have to pay a fare, which is a pint or two,” he said.

The Scottish Government has launched a 24-hour hotline for people to report misuse, such as passengers using dead relatives’ passes, which costs Scotland millions of pounds every year.

The Welsh Government is not following suit, but urges people to report possible fraud to councils.

One bus manager said the new smartcard technology invited fraud because passengers now placed their passes face-down on the scanner in the bus.

“In the old days, you showed the pass to the driver. The visual assessment isn’t there any more,” he said.

He said councils “should be out there on the buses, checking that the passes are being used by the people they’ve been issued to”.

He added: “I would expect to see some prosecutions if somebody was there to check the passes.

“It’s the government’s money and they pay the local authorities to administer the system, but the authorities are all cutting down on staff.”

None of the six bus managers we spoke to could recall council inspectors checking passengers’ passes.

The Association of Transport Coordinating Officers (Atco) Cymru, representing council transport officers, said most authorities had bus monitoring officers whose job includes checking passes.

Atco Cymru chair Richard Cope said: “Three authorities in South Wales are currently investigating the fraudulent use of passes, the result of which, although unknown at present, may conclude that a prosecution will be brought.”

A Welsh Government spokesman said each council was responsible for managing the scheme.

He said: “Local authorities undertake spot checks on services to monitor the actions of bus drivers and the use of bus passes.”

The Welsh Government could use data from electronic ticket machines to scrutinise bus-pass use, he added. “This information allows us to identify possible cases of inappropriate use of bus passes, which can then be pursued with the local authorities and bus operators.”

John Gould, of Stagecoach South Wales, said: “In any system there will be abuse, but we rely on drivers picking up these things. We’ve had drivers confiscating passes. There have been occasions where daughter will be using mum’s pass or next door’s pass.”

More than 25% of free journeys on his buses are with passes issued to people aged under 60. At Neath-based South Wales Transport, those passes account for up to 29% of free journeys.

SWT managing director Bev Fowles said: “The concessionary scheme is being over-burdended, not by over-60s, but by higher usage by the other concessionaries.

“That’s a serious problem. It (the funding) should come out of social services or the NHS if they think somebody can’t live their life properly without a bus pass.”


Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/07/30/wales-70m-free-bus-passes-let-alcoholics-travel-to-the-pub-free-91466-31502080/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#ixzz225gfiIRK (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/07/30/wales-70m-free-bus-passes-let-alcoholics-travel-to-the-pub-free-91466-31502080/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#ixzz225gfiIRK)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Fester on July 30, 2012, 10:26:52 pm
(A possible candidate for the Scum thread,Dave?)
The more that I read things like that, the more I despair about how lax we have become as a society.

Another potentially good and benevolent idea ruined, due to mis-management and those who abuse the privilege.  &shake& &shake&



Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on November 27, 2014, 09:26:07 am
Proposals have been drawn up to improve Transport links in the North Wales area, here are the schemes mooted for Conwy:

http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Conwy-Transport-Schemes1.pdf (http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Conwy-Transport-Schemes1.pdf)

...and here is the Overall Transport Plan:
http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Draft-North-Wales-Joint-Local-Transport-Plan1.pdf (http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Draft-North-Wales-Joint-Local-Transport-Plan1.pdf)

Of interest to Llandudno is this proposal:

"A package of traffic improvements in Llandudno town centre to improve safety, improve car parking and reduce congestion. This will involve exploring a range of options to improve capacity
and/or reduce demand for travel through the town centre as traffic patterns change due to development."


Other local plans include a proper roundabout at Penhyn Bay Tollbar to replace the current mini roundabout, and Bus Stops at the top of Penrhyn Hill to enable bus users to access the 12 service.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Michael on November 28, 2014, 05:48:05 am
I don,t know what the bus stops at the top of Penrhyn hill are all about. They are already there, and have been for at least 75 years to my knowledge, and the 12 service stops there
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: wrex on November 28, 2014, 06:46:56 am
12 does not use Bryn y bia rd,i think Arriva dictate where they go and will not cross the main road twice to get in and out of Bryn y bia road,
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Bri Roberts on November 28, 2014, 07:26:38 am
Don't the 12B, 14 and 15 currently use Byn y Bia Road?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Gwynant on November 28, 2014, 08:33:09 am
               I think that the regular 12 Service becomes the 12B once the 14 and 15 buses stop running (eg. after 7pm daily and all day Sundays), and then the 12B serves Bryn-y-Bia Road including the Penrhynside stops from that time.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on November 28, 2014, 09:18:50 am
               I think that the regular 12 Service becomes the 12B once the 14 and 15 buses stop running (eg. after 7pm daily and all day Sundays), and then the 12B serves Bryn-y-Bia Road including the Penrhynside stops from that time.
That's it. I think the idea of the change is to enable Penrhynside residents to be able to use all the 12 buses and end the Practice of diverting 12B, 14, 15 down Bryn Y Bia Road.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on December 08, 2014, 10:30:39 am
Welsh train services could be run by not-for-profit company says Edwina Hart
Dec 06, 2014 07:00

Transport Minister tells AMs Welsh Government is establishing firm to deliver better transport in Wales.

Edwina Hart has announced the extra fundingEdwina Hart says Welsh railways could be run by not-for-profit firm
A not-for-profit firm could run Welsh train services in the near future Transport Minister Edwina Hart has said.

Ministers have powers to decide who runs the Wales and Borders franchise routes currently run by Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) when the contract ends in 2018.

Mrs Hart told AMs the Welsh Government is establishing a “not for dividend wholly owned subsidiary company” to deliver better transport in Wales.

Initially, the company will advise on electrification, the rail franchise, and plans for a South Wales metro transport network.

The former trade union chief said officials would look at expanding its operations in the future.

She said in a written statement: “While, in its first iteration, the company will concentrate on providing advice, its remit and role will be able to be extended, as appropriate, to take on the delivery of key aspects of transport delivery and is therefore in line with the commitment to examine the feasibility of the Wales & Border rail franchise being run on a not-for-dividend basis.”

A pledge to look at setting up a not-for-profit company to run the services - along the lines of Dwr Cymru Welsh Water - was included in Welsh ministers’ Programme for Government after the 2011 assembly election.

Mrs Hart told the Assembly’s Enterprise and Business Committee the company would be run “as professionally as possible”.

She added: “I am determined when we go to the full issue of the franchise we’re prepared for a not-for-dividend company to be established. I think that’s popular in terms of people’s perceptions.”

Last year, the Welsh Government bought Cardiff Airport - with the cost of bringing it back into public ownership being £52 million.

Plans to effectively renationalise the Wales & Borders franchise was met with mixed responses from Labour’s Senedd rivals.

Plaid Cymru transport spokesman Rhun ap Iorwerth said: “We’ve long believed that rail has to work for the people of Wales, and that putting the next franchise in public hands is the way to do that.

“The minister was clear that there are pitfalls ahead, but having called for this in the last election Plaid Cymru fully supports this option.”

However, the Welsh Conservatives described Mrs Hart’s ideas as “marxist”.

Shadow transport minister Byron Davies said: “Preventing private businesses from running Welsh railways is another example of Labour’s ideological aversion to the private sector and inability to create wealth and prosperity in the Welsh economy.”

An ATW spokesman said rail electrification and devolution of the franchise meant there were “exciting times ahead” for the industry.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/welsh-train-services-could-run-8237839 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/welsh-train-services-could-run-8237839)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: born2run on December 08, 2014, 04:07:44 pm
The Tories and capitalists will be frothing but why is it ok to run a theatre non profit (actually at a big loss) that people decide to go to for a bit of a jolly, but not ok to run railways that people need to get to work and about?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on December 14, 2014, 06:09:35 pm
Re the Bryn y Bia Road buses, Arriva wanted to run the 12 along this section throughout the day but there were objections from residents - supported by some politicians - hence the scheme for the new layout at the top of Bryn y Bia Road.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on December 14, 2014, 06:12:48 pm
According to BBC Wales News, a new railway station has been opened at Pyle Corner (near Newport) at a cost of £3.5 million funded by
the Welsh and UK Governments using taxpayers' money.  Darren Millar AM was campaigning for one to serve Kinmel Bay/Towyn.


Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on December 29, 2014, 10:01:27 am
The Tories and capitalists will be frothing but why is it ok to run a theatre non profit (actually at a big loss) that people decide to go to for a bit of a jolly, but not ok to run railways that people need to get to work and about?
I think its perfectly fine to run the railway network on a public ownership basis as long as it is done properly. British Rail was a good example of how not to do it properly. Looking at it objectively, rail services and stations are far better now in North Wales under private operation than they were in the BR days. Biggest problem at the moment is the shortage of rolling stock; if the WG could remember that a place called 'North Wales' exists and pay out for some WG owned trains/carriages to upgrade passenger capacity, then we wouldn't have scenes reminiscent of a third world country on a fairly regular basis:

An overcrowded train was so packed that six passengers were forced to sit in the driver’s cab, scores more were forced to stand and 150 others turned away because there was no room for them. Arriva Trains Wales apologised after they were blasted by passengers on the 09:23 from Holyhead, which set off for Birmingham with only two carriages.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-accused-massive-rail-fail-8353293 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-accused-massive-rail-fail-8353293)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on December 29, 2014, 10:57:38 am
I've long thought the unique nature of the railway really means it should be regarded more as a social service than a profit-making company. In a sense, the existence of the hugely impressive track coverage we had in the '60s was more of a national heritage cultural infrastructure than a mere transport system. Yes - there were lines that were lucky to see a single passenger on some days, but they did provide an invaluable means of keeping communities in touch with one another.

And now, all across the UK, they're talking about reopening tracks, relaying disused tracks and creating new tracks. One example is that - perhaps unbelievably - there's no way to get a direct train from Liverpool to Llandudno. But there used to be and the old track still exists.  It's called the Halton Curve, and they've been discussing its restoration for some time.

But one thing's worth remembering: over the years (well, certainly from as far back as 1963) Tory policy has been determined by those who stood to gain (financially) the most. It still astonishes me that the owner of the biggest road haulage group in the UK was responsible for decimating the railways - an action which has now returned to haunt them all.

We don't learn. Ever.  We keep letting the same cronyism run rampant in the political sphere.

On the other hand , I do know that one major issue for the train network has been passenger expectation on safety. Maintaining the track has always been an extraordinarily expensive business, so that has to fall to government, I think. The other side of the coin, of course, is that with anything government-owned the expectations can be unreasonable, so I do concede the case for denationalisation. But AFAIK no country in the world has managed to have a railway network which is entirely free from government subsidy.

There's another aspect to nationalisation. The Unions are always aware that when something is entirely government owned, any industrial action on their part will reflect badly on the party in power at that time.  I always prefer a compromise, with the government owning 50% of the shares, which often then sees the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on December 29, 2014, 11:38:18 am
The government don't like to admit it but Network Rail was as good as renationalised earlier this year.
All they need to do now is take back the rest as each franchise runs out and it will cost them hardly anything to get it all back!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: bigbadhenry on December 30, 2014, 10:38:49 am
We keep letting the same cronyism run rampant in the political sphere.

How very true.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Yorkie on December 30, 2014, 12:07:00 pm
At PMQ's the House is like a ginormous aviary with many MPs twittering away on their mobile phones!
What a way to run the Country?   WWW
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: born2run on December 31, 2014, 12:59:04 pm

There's another aspect to nationalisation. The Unions are always aware that when something is entirely government owned, any industrial action on their part will reflect badly on the party in power at that time.  I always prefer a compromise, with the government owning 50% of the shares, which often then sees the best of both worlds.

Agreed. Works well in France. As do the Unions who are much more effective over there.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on November 11, 2015, 02:46:18 pm
I was just reading the Weekly News and saw that AM Janet Haworth thinks that 'old trains' are the main problem with the railways in North Wales. Unless shes travelling on the Conwy Valley line, I think she may find that the rest of the trains are no older than any others on the UK network.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: bigbadhenry on November 12, 2015, 11:16:01 am
Maybe this is what she referred to, but as stated it does not apply on the North Wales Coast main line.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on November 12, 2015, 11:35:39 am
Why doesn't it apply on the North Wales Coast main line?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: bigbadhenry on November 12, 2015, 02:05:06 pm
"Why doesn't it apply on the North Wales Coast main line?"

Younger rolling stock operate on the North Wales main line, the older trains tend to operate around Cardiff and Valley areas of South Wales.

The main stay of Arriva Trains Wales fleet in North Wales are Class 175 entered service in 2000 and class 158 entered service 1989/92.
A complete refurbishment programme to provide the Class 158s with full 'as new' interiors took place between December 2010/2012

Virgin operate Class 221 entered service 2001/2 on there North Wales to London services.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on November 12, 2015, 02:48:33 pm
I know exactly what trains serve North Wales. You forgot to mention the class 150 & 153's dating from the mid eighties and the class 67 locos from 2000 pulling coaches & a DVT from the mid eighties. Taking those into account would still put the North Wales coast into the bottom half of the table.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on February 10, 2016, 09:05:37 am
I see the Conwy Valley railway line is needing massive work to get it back into operation after floods in December. It provides a fantastic service to both residents and visitors alike, but I'm wondering how long Network Rail will be prepared to throw what must be millions at it every year to repair continual flood damage?

"Conwy Valley line had 1,200 tonnes of material removed from railway during repair work. The track between Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog was shut last year after rain and floods damaged it in more than 100 separate locations."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-valley-line-1200-tonnes-10865845 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-valley-line-1200-tonnes-10865845)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Merddin Emrys on February 10, 2016, 10:43:15 am
Amazing how much work it needs, must make a loss every year? I plan to go on it more often when my bus pass arrives, just applied for it!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on March 27, 2016, 12:54:34 pm
North Wales trains so old it's 'amazing they still work', says transport expert

Trains carrying passengers through North Wales are so old it’s “amazing they still work”, a leading transport expert has said.
Professor Stuart Cole said Arriva Trains Wales engineers “must be amazing” to keep the carriages running regularly on the line between Holyhead and Crewe.
Fears have already been raised that a bid to secure investment for electrifying the North Wales Main Line could fail, unless passenger numbers are significantly improved.

Network Rail said the investment of almost £800m needed to improve the line in 2024 would represent “poor value” for money in their vision for future works.
Professor Cole, of the Wales Transport Research Centre, said the route needed significant improvement.
The average age of the Arriva fleet is 25 years old, and services are only able to reach top speeds of 100mph, making them incompatible with high speed lines and electrification.
Prof Cole said that, despite passenger numbers more than doubling in the last 10 years, passengers remain on the “very old trains” due to a no growth deal in the current franchise.

“We have got problems on the A55. It measured up to what was required of it when it was built and it still does most of the time, but there are problems at the Chester end because of the commute in the morning.
“If we could just get 10% of people to transfer to the train, the problems would be eliminated in most situations.
“It doesn’t take a lot of people to make a difference.

MORE   http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-trains-old-its-11099713 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-trains-old-its-11099713)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on April 04, 2016, 07:19:42 pm
Network Rail opposes Arriva plan to increase trains to Manchester Airport

Plans for a massive increase in Arriva trains running to Manchester Airport have been opposed by Network Rail.
Before Christmas, Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) announced plans to increase the number of direct trains from North Wales to the airport from 17 to 57 weekly.
But Network Rail have said the increase would bring “unmanageable pressure” on train performance and impacts on other rail operators.

The application by ATW is currently being considered by Office of Rail and Road, the independent rail regulator.
A Network Rail spokesperson said: “Network Rail and others were asked for views (by the Office of Rail and Road).
“We provided a response in February and, along with others, raised concerns that the increased number of trains could negatively affect the reliability of the railway for passengers.
“We await the outcome of the regulator’s independent review and will act in accordance with their decision.”

Clwyd West AM Darren Millar said: “I have been advocating improved rail links to Manchester Airport for a number of years and was delighted before Christmas when ATW announced that it wants to increase the number of direct trains.
“I am extremely disappointed by the position of Network Rail on this issue which is frustrating progress.
“Having spoken to rail user groups and others in the transport industry I am confident that these additional services could easily be accommodated.
I have written to Network Rail again demanding a full explanation as to why such a decision has been made.”

Business surveys have revealed significantly more Welsh residents fly from Manchester than any other airport – including Heathrow.
The latest officially available statistics from 2007 record that North Wales generated 816,000 passenger journeys through Manchester airport.

A spokesman for ATW said the application was still with the Office of Rail and Road and they awaited the decision.
If approved the direct trains could be running from May.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/network-rail-opposes-arriva-plan-11136578 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/network-rail-opposes-arriva-plan-11136578)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on May 10, 2016, 12:44:21 pm
Fears of overcrowding and delays on Arriva Trains Wales as corrosion repairs continue
Rail passengers in North Wales face overcrowding and possible delays this summer after corrosion was found on a fleet of diesel trains.

All Class 175 Coradia units operated by Arriva Trains Wales need urgent repairs, and four are already out of service at the company’s Chester depot.

The 175s, which form two- and three-carriage trains, are ATW’s most modern rolling stock and entered service in 2000. They can reach speeds of 100mph and are used on most Holyhead-Cardiff and Llandudno-Manchester services.
more... http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fears-overcrowding-delays-arriva-trains-11309877 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fears-overcrowding-delays-arriva-trains-11309877)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on July 12, 2016, 05:19:25 pm
A CAMPAIGN has been launched to secure £1bn of rail improvements which would transform the North Wales and Cheshire regional economy and deliver 70,000 jobs over 20 years.

The campaign – called Growth track 360 – is being led by a cross-border alliance of business, political and public sector leaders.

If successful, it would lead to a massive boost to the North Wales, Cheshire and Wirral economies, linking them with the planned HS2 line between London and the North of England.

The campaign is calling for the electrification of the line from Crewe to North Wales so the region can be linked to HS2 and fast London trains can continue to Bangor and Holyhead,  the doubling of trains between the North Wales Coast Line and Wrexham to Manchester through Chester, between Wrexham and Liverpool via Deeside and Bidston, investment in new rolling stock, new services between Liverpool and Liverpool Airport to North Wales and Wrexham via Chester.

Linked to the proposals would be signalling and line speed improvements, upgrades to station facilities and the creation of a smart ticketing system.

Follow and like the North Wales Pioneer Facebook page by clicking here
The campaign is being driven by the North Wales and Mersey Dee Rail Task Force (NW&MD) and has the backing of the region’s eight local authorities, the Cheshire and Warrington Local Enterprise Partnership, the Mersey Dee Alliance, the North Wales Economic Ambition Board, the North Wales Business Council and the West Cheshire & North Wales Chamber of Commerce.

Initial research suggests delivery of the improvements would lead to an estimated 70,000 new jobs across the North Wales and Mersey Dee region and the fast-tracking of economic growth.

Cllr Dilwyn Roberts, Conwy County Borough Council Leader, said: “Our vision is for a smart, modern and integrated public transport system which can help us unlock the region’s full economic potential, ensuring we can fulfil our status as an integral part of the Northern Powerhouse and help to address the imbalance in the UK economy.”

Colin Brew, CEO of West Cheshire and North Wales Chamber of Commerce, said: “Additional capacity and faster journey times on our rail network will reduce road congestion and massively improve commuter, tourist and freight movements across the region.”

The Welsh Government’s Economy and Infrastructure Secretary, Ken Skates, said: “Connecting people to jobs and businesses to growth opportunities is a must if the economy of North Wales is to continue to grow and reach its undoubted potential.   ref Pioneer
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Bosun on July 12, 2016, 11:00:48 pm
I may be slightly cynical, but I would like to see some evidence of the -  "Initial research suggests delivery of the improvements would lead to an estimated 70,000 new jobs across the North Wales and Mersey Dee region and the fast-tracking of economic growth."

I have seen upgraded lines come into operation before, and all it meant was that people from London and the home counties could get there and back quicker for meetings without having to spend much time, especially, they would not have to overnight in the area before returning south. Or people transiting through, to catch ferries or journey onwards would have a quicker journey. There was no advantage to the communities' of the area and the 'promised jobs' was a mere fantasy to justify the massive expenditure.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on July 13, 2016, 07:04:13 am
That has tended to be the trend. Sometimes we seem to be living in Game of Thrones, such is the divide between the North and South of the UK.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on July 25, 2016, 10:50:25 am
A £1 billion rail vision for North Wales and Cheshire has been backed by senior figures from the cities of Manchester and Liverpool.

Manchester City Council leader Sir Richard Leese and Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson are among a range of senior figures to call for the Government to back the Growth Track 360 campaign.

Chris Oglesby, chairman of Manchester Science Partnerships and the chair of Merseytravel Cllr Liam Robinson have also thrown their weight behind the campaign.

The Growth Track 360 campaign is being led by a cross-border alliance of business, political and public sector leaders.
More  http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/north-wales-1bn-rail-vision-11658745 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/north-wales-1bn-rail-vision-11658745)

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on July 25, 2016, 10:59:51 am
A £1 billion rail vision for North Wales and Cheshire has been backed by senior figures from the cities of Manchester and Liverpool.

Manchester City Council leader Sir Richard Leese and Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson are among a range of senior figures to call for the Government to back the Growth Track 360 campaign.

Chris Oglesby, chairman of Manchester Science Partnerships and the chair of Merseytravel Cllr Liam Robinson have also thrown their weight behind the campaign.

The Growth Track 360 campaign is being led by a cross-border alliance of business, political and public sector leaders.
More  http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/north-wales-1bn-rail-vision-11658745 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/north-wales-1bn-rail-vision-11658745)




Pipe dream.
Who's going to fund it, Europe?
Oh no, wait....
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on January 06, 2017, 09:17:16 am
Not North Wales related, I know, but we visited London over the Christmas period and one of the things I really like about it is the fantastic public transport system. The Oyster card makes travel so easy and daily caps on the amount you can spend mean its very affordable, far cheaper than travelling on bus/trains locally (all bus fares are £1.50, for example). You can also use your contactless card or iphone to pay for travel. I used the Google Maps app on the iphone to work out routes and it was an absolute doddle - the app tells you which bus stop/tube station to walk to, number/time of next bus, time of arrival at your destination etc. Fantastic.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on January 06, 2017, 09:56:27 am
Yep: definitely recommend Oyster for anyone visiting London. Still have to put up with tubes, but so much faster and more efficient.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: born2run on January 06, 2017, 03:36:55 pm
Contactless cards idea is brilliant works exactly the same as an Oyster so never charges you more than the minimum fair. It always makes me laugh when people are running and pushing down the stairs on the underground, if you miss your train there's normally another one 30 seconds later! Now in NW it's worth running for as if you miss your train/bus you'll likely have an hour to kill. That must be why the Killer (named after such) and the Neville are still in business  Z**
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on January 06, 2017, 04:28:52 pm
I suspect the pushing and rushing hasn't a lot to do with the trains; more to do with the pace of life in London. We visited friends, recently (they have a nice house in Westminster) and we commented on the sense of urgency that seems to be everywhere in London. They contrasted it perfectly with driving. They said allow at least one hour to go anywhere at all in central London.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on May 23, 2018, 11:19:43 am
A contract to run rail services in Wales for the next 15 years has been awarded to a consortium of two European firms.

France's Keolis and Spanish-owned Amey's will takeover services from Arriva Trains in October after being chosen ahead of Hong Kong's MTR commuter railways.

KeolisAmey currently runs the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) in London and operate and maintain Greater Manchester’s Metrolink – the largest tram network in the UK
Upon successful completion of a 10-day standstill period, the contract will run from June 4, 2018, to October 14, 2033, with rail services transferring on October 14, 2018.

Alistair Gordon, Chief Executive of Keolis UK, said: "This will be a transformative new rail service for Wales and its borders which will see Keolis once more combine its worldwide expertise in passenger operations with Amey’s engineering excellence.

Andy Milner, Amey’s Chief Executive, said: "This is a great opportunity for us to use our joint capabilities to deliver a first-rate service for Wales.

"We will be focused on working with Transport for Wales to transform the existing infrastructure and introduce new trains to significantly improve the passenger experience, as well as creating hundreds of new jobs and apprenticeship opportunities."

Transport for Wales (TfW) - which is advising the Welsh Government on the contract - said the new franchise holder will be held to account on issues like punctuality, cleanliness and service quality - or they will not get paid.  ref DP

Also from the BBC....   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44221184 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44221184)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on May 23, 2018, 07:23:06 pm
Watched the bit of Wales Today about the rail franchise earlier.  As might be expected a good deal of chatter about the Valleys and the South Wales metro.  As a nod to us Gogs we had a couple of legal people who work in Wrexham interviewed. the main point of which was they would like to see disused stations reopen.  A fair point given the considerable number of housing developments over the past 40 or 50 years since closures. Then, for some unexplained reason Nick Servini popped up at Llandudno station but didn't really say much - not even about the closure of the booking hall due to a crack in the glass frontage.

One odd thing about the whole franchise issue is the chatterers' constant repetition of the mantra that the Welsh Government/Transport for Wales now run the "Welsh" railway. They seem to overlook the fact that other franchisees such as Virgin, GWR and Cross Country also operate services into and out of Wales.  The Wales & Borders franchise itself covers large swathes of the English border counties and fairly important places such as Shrewsbury, Hereford, and Chester are included together with the services on two routes into Manchester and the Chester-Crewe shuttle. Interesting times.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on June 08, 2018, 11:06:30 am
Former London Underground trains are to run on North Wales branch lines.

New rail franchise holder KeolisAmey has ordered five Class 230 D-Trains from Vivarail.
The trains will be the first to come into service as part of the new franchise and will operate on the Conwy Valley line between Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog.

“We are proud to announce that KeolisAmey and Vivarail will provide a step-change in passenger comfort and service quality on three North Wales routes by introducing these units, fitted with the latest passenger comfort appliances such as power supply at all seats, high-speed Wi-Fi, air-cooling, bike spaces, and a brand new seating layout reflecting the needs of the passengers on these routes.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/old-london-underground-trains-run-14757640 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/old-london-underground-trains-run-14757640)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: bigbadhenry on June 08, 2018, 11:39:53 am
They are still secondhand London tube stock no matter how well they overhaul them.
London would not put up with second hand trains why do we have too.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on June 08, 2018, 02:55:21 pm
Plenty about these units on Wikipedia.  Type in: British Rail Class 230

Isle of Wight has been using old LT stock for years so not really a new idea.

Reading between the lines, 1 unit will be Crewe - Chester shuttle; 1 on Conwy Valley and the other 2 or 3 on the Wrexham - Bidston line which now seems to be the North East Wales Metro!

Incidentally, the 12 mark IV coaches are also second-hand.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2018, 08:41:38 am
I think that the new franchise will be a big step forward for rail travel in Wales.  The expansion of services and introduction of new trains is long overdue, although I confess I will miss the rattly old Class 150 that runs the Conwy Valley line service.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on October 05, 2018, 04:43:01 pm
Looks like Arriva are making more cuts. ;)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on October 15, 2018, 12:09:47 pm
I think that the new franchise will be a big step forward for rail travel in Wales.  The expansion of services and introduction of new trains is long overdue, although I confess I will miss the rattly old Class 150 that runs the Conwy Valley line service.

New £5bn Transport for Wales rail franchise begins.    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45786582 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45786582)


New era for rail services as Arriva Trains Wales bows out after 15 years in charge
Rail franchise operator Arriva Trains Wales bows out after 15 years in charge.    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-era-rail-services-arriva-15272923 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-era-rail-services-arriva-15272923)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Hugo on January 22, 2019, 06:19:26 pm
Railway from Betws Y Coed to Blaenau closed due to rock fall


https://www.northwaleschronicle.co.uk/news/17375874.railway-line-between-betwys-y-coed-and-blaenau-ffestiniog-closed-by-rock-fall/?ref=erec (https://www.northwaleschronicle.co.uk/news/17375874.railway-line-between-betwys-y-coed-and-blaenau-ffestiniog-closed-by-rock-fall/?ref=erec)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on July 25, 2019, 09:20:29 am
THE first trains have run the entire length of the reopened Conwy Valley line which was extensively damaged by flooding in the Spring.

Initially the line reopened between Llandudno Junction and Llanrwst, but on Wednesday July 24 the Llanrwst to Blaneau Ffestiniog section also opened. The reopening is in time for the National Eisteddfod which will be held in Llanrwst between Friday August 2 and Saturday August 10.

To mark the reopening of the line a steam train will run along the line on Saturday 3 August           ref Pioneer
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on August 14, 2019, 10:00:03 am
Virgin Trains to be replaced by First Group on West Coast mainline - what it means for passengers
The new consortium said North Wales will benefit from extra services, upgraded trains and better stations.    ref DP
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/virgin-trains-replaced-first-group-16750925 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/virgin-trains-replaced-first-group-16750925)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 14, 2019, 10:19:46 am
I'll believe it when it happens.  First group are already being sued by their own shareholders for bidding, while Virgin Stagecoach were not even allowed to bid, since they wouldn't agree to take on completely unknown pension liabilities. Railway privatisation is collapsing all around our wonderful government, who seem to be blissfully unaware of the impending disaster into which they're pushing us.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on August 14, 2019, 12:04:04 pm
First the good news ( sort of above ) then the bad...............                          Do any of the Forum members use rail services ?

Rail fare price increase - what it will cost North Wales travellers
The annual cost of travelling on the rail network will rise by over £100 a year for many routes
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/rail-fare-price-increase-what-16751709 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/rail-fare-price-increase-what-16751709)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cordyline on August 14, 2019, 03:04:52 pm
From the BBC Direct rail connection from Llandudno to London (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49343784)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 14, 2019, 04:05:30 pm
Yes.

I wonder if there will be a couple of trains departing for London during the mornings or will it be just one train departing mid-afternoon again?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2019, 04:44:05 pm
I saw the new local line train heading towards Llandudno from the Junction yesterday ....it looked very smart.

Do I use the train?
No. Too expensive and too awkward getting to most places. Last time I used one was several years ago. It was overcrowded too and I had to stand when I changed trains at Chester for the rest of the journey to the Junction.
A direct line to Manchester airport that ran on a regular basis to meet all arrivals and departure times would have me interested but when I looked it's so much hassle it's easier to drive.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on August 14, 2019, 04:46:59 pm
Lets hope the new operator ends the practice of terminating/starting London services at Chester rather than running them down the coast, not necessarily to Holyhead but to Bangor or Llandudno.  Anyone travelling from Chester on certain TfW services having come off a Virgin train is very lucky to get a seat.  Virgin had several years to resolve the problem of cynically decanting their passengers at Chester and expecting Arriva, now TfW, to provide stock to take them forward to North Wales.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 14, 2019, 04:57:41 pm
Am I missing something? We've been travelling to London on a direct service for years from the Junction. I just checked now and on a random weekday in September there are three direct trains (no changes) to Euston from Llandudno Junction in the morning alone.

So why the hoo-ha about introducing a direct service when there already seem to be plenty?
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on August 18, 2019, 01:37:07 pm
Am I missing something? We've been travelling to London on a direct service for years from the Junction. I just checked now and on a random weekday in September there are three direct trains (no changes) to Euston from Llandudno Junction in the morning alone.

So why the hoo-ha about introducing a direct service when there already seem to be plenty?


It said a direct service from Llandudno, not Llandudno Junction.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 18, 2019, 06:14:49 pm
The last one we went on ran direct from Llandudno - not the Junction.  And if you read the post on the previous page it says this:

"First Trenitalia, the new operator of the West Coast mainline, also intends to introduce a new fleet of trains between Holyhead and Wrexham.

First Trenitalia says the new direct service between Llandudno and London is expected to run in the summer months from May 2021. "


So hardly clear - or even new. I'd have been more impressed had I seen them promising direct connections between Liverpool and Llandudno.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on August 19, 2019, 01:01:44 pm
The last Virgin Llandudno/London service ran in December 2008.

Transport for Wales is already committed to Liverpool/Llandudno - 1 train per hour - service for December 2022 so it would be unlikely the new West Coast operator would want to duplicate that provision.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2019, 03:22:31 pm
The last Virgin Llandudno/London service ran in December 2008.

That can't be accurate; only last year we came back from London on a Virgin train that went directly into Llandudno. I'll admit we were both surprised as, I suppose like many, we believed only the Junction offered a direct run to London.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2019, 03:31:20 pm

Transport for Wales is already committed to Liverpool/Llandudno - 1 train per hour - service for December 2022 so it would be unlikely the new West Coast operator would want to duplicate that provision.

So nearly three years away from a direct link to one of the larger cities.  It's pretty simple to reach the Junction from Llandudno;  not quite so simple for Liverpudlians to reach Llandudno from Liverpool without jumping a few hoops.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on August 19, 2019, 04:52:48 pm
Couldn't see anything in last year's timetable for a service direct to Llandudno from London.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2019, 06:43:37 pm
Well, I can only say we were both on it.  I didn't check but assumed it was a normally scheduled route. We always tend to travel from Junction, anyway.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on August 20, 2019, 10:05:05 am
What West Coast mainline takeover will mean for services from your train station.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/what-west-coast-mainline-takeover-16781341 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/what-west-coast-mainline-takeover-16781341)
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SDQ on August 20, 2019, 11:06:52 am
The last Virgin Llandudno/London service ran in December 2008.

That can't be accurate; only last year we came back from London on a Virgin train that went directly into Llandudno. I'll admit we were both surprised as, I suppose like many, we believed only the Junction offered a direct run to London.


I assure you it is accurate.
Title: Re: Public Transport........ New style bus passes
Post by: SteveH on September 11, 2019, 12:05:19 pm
PENSIONERS can now reapply for their new style bus pass with the current bus passes becoming invalid at the end of the year.

Transport for Wales announced in June that Concessionary Travel Cards are to replace current bus passes from Wednesday, September 11.
All current green coloured bus passes will still be accepted and are valid until 31 December 2019, after which they will become void.

You can reapply on the website www.tfw.wales/travelcards (http://www.tfw.wales/travelcards) from a smartphone, tablet or computer. If you need help in doing this, you can visit a drop-in centre or ask someone you trust to apply on the website on your behalf.

But despite concerns for elderly people who do not have access to or feel comfortable using the internet - Transport for Wales has said that paper copies of the application form can be issued to people who want them.

Residents are advised not to panic but to apply for their new-style card in plenty of time before the end of the year to ensure they can continue to receive the benefits of concessionary travel.

From Wednesday, friends and family can apply from home on behalf of residents using the Transport For Wales portal.
If you would like to order a paper copy of the application, or find out where local support if available, please call 0300 303 4240.

To reapply, you will need the following information to hand; the 18-digit card number printed on the front of your (green) bus pass, your date of birth, the postcode your current card is registered to, and your National Insurance number which is on pension statements, disability statements or payslips.

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2019, 02:11:56 pm
Thanks for the info Steve... might never have found out until I was refused on a bus as I rarely use mine.
For those that try to update it.I'd wait. Just went through everything asked for only to be told at the end that they were now updating the website due to high demand. Not sure if I was successful or not but no need to panic!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on September 11, 2019, 02:16:33 pm
...and the website for the new passes has crashed...

When it's been fixed this is the link (https://portal.tfw.wales/en) for the direct application.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2019, 03:28:45 pm
...and the website for the new passes has crashed...

When it's been fixed this is the link (https://portal.tfw.wales/en) for the direct application.


Not as many dinosaurs out there as they imagine, we oldies are on the ball!!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on September 21, 2019, 09:40:38 am
,,,and the bus pass renewal site is still down.  How surprising...
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on October 09, 2019, 10:27:38 am
"Thank you for your patience, we’re pleased to confirm the online application portal is now back up and running. You can renew your bus pass "                           
https://tfw.gov.wales/travelcards                                                                                   

https://portal.tfw.wales/en
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Ian on October 09, 2019, 12:36:32 pm
In keeping with the way we've learned that our political lords and masters do things, be warned that the online application form is one of the most badly thought-out sites I've seen in a long time.

It's billed as  an 'easy online application process' so let's see..,.

1. The first part requires the existing pass number to be inserted.  Fair enough, I thought, so started typing in the numbers.  As soon as you input the first number a message in red appears:

The Existing Welsh Concessionary Travel Card Number * field format is invalid.

Being in red and using the word 'invalid' is enough to scare most computer users with little experience. And it's wrong. Because whomever programmed it set it to respond to the first number.

Doesn't matter that it was the correct first number of the nineteen digit pass number. The red warning message doesn't disappear until the entire 19 digits have been inserted. Almost unbelievable but sadly all too common.

2. The form then asks for your postcode and finally, your DOB. Press 'submit' and

3. A new page appears saying:

"Good news! We’ve found your old card details. Where we can verify your name and address, we've copied them into this page"

Great, I thought;  saves typing in the address, etc. How wrong I was...

Naturally, one ignores the next bit which starts with "If some details are missing, it may be that we couldn't verify the original card details against current Government records. Please:" because the form has already confirmed they've found all your details. Remember? It said

We’ve found your old card details.

so we skip this and go down to the next relevant instruction. 

4. You'll need:

    Your National Insurance number
    A recent council tax bill containing the name of your local council
    A digital passport-style photograph of yourself


It beats me how they can actually pay someone to produce stuff as wildly inaccurate and unhelpful as this tripe. You actually only need one of the three items we're told we'll need. It's the NI number. Nowhere do you need a council tax bill, nowhere do you need a photo.

The reason you don't need those is because we clicked - at the outset - on the link which stated

To renew an old style Welsh over-60 concessionary travel pass
.

So they've already got your photo. And the only other thing they need is your local council's name.  Can there seriously be anyone who doesn't know the local council's name? In any case the instructions - again - are wrong.  All they needed to state was you need the name of your local council.

5. Just when you're convinced this journey through incompetence and bad planning can't get any worse, your hopes are dashed as we come to the Cardholder Information section.

Now, remember way back in the mists of time when the page you're still marooned on stated

Good news! We’ve found your old card details. Where we can verify your name and address, we've copied them into this page"

well, turns out they haven't. You have to fill in the address details which they claimed to have found and copied onto the page all by yourself.

Now, if you're desperately seeking a crumb of comfort in the hope it will read your postcode and allow a pre-programmed list of addresses to appear - think again.

As I started to insert the address a list appeared... It searched on the first letter of our house name and produced five possible addresses - in Abergele, Swansea, Porthmadog, Botswana and Russia. Well, perhaps not the last two, but you see the utter incompetence of this process.

Having then stumbled, cursing, through the address filled completion marathon, any hopes you're getting somewhere are cruelly quelled by the NI No. insertion field.

They need this, apparently, to weed out scammers, fraudsters, terrorists  and members of the Klu Klux Clan.  So you start to insert the number and guess what?

The National Insurance Number field format is invalid.

appears as you type in the first number.

For those who don't know about programming a database to reject invalid formats, it's really pretty easy to do well. To display the red message as the first number is typed in is simply lazy and bad programming.

6. Finally, you're given the opportunity to provide a landline No., a Mobile No. and an email address.  And just to prove that no one with an IQ above room temperature actually checked the form, the same gormless programming emerges as you insert the first character in any field.

The Mobile Phone Number field format is invalid.

7. Just to show the fun never starts, after pressing submit (if you've resisted the urge to throw the computer through the upstairs window whilst considering inventive ways to garotte the programmer with the keyboard lead) you're taken to the photo page where it starts with this:

Photo

You'll need a passport quality photo clearly showing your face so that drivers can recognise you easily.

As you start to wonder why the word 'easy' and 'this form' ever appeared in the same sentence you- decide, out of some futile hope, to read down the page.

Surprise.  There - around two thirds of the page down - is your photo.  And already pre-ticked is the option to

Use the photo from my previous pass.

Now, you would be forgiven for thinking that anyone who'd ever completed a form anywhere in their entire life would know to put the important information at the top.  So it's the first thing the applicant reads.

Not, it appears, in the convoluted and mendacious minds of those who design online forms for Transport for Wales, it seems. No - making it the last option is clearly going to confuse far more people so there'll be lots of incomplete applications and frustrated would be travellers. Far more fun.

8. Next comes a very odd page.  It offers to print any first name you want on your card. It might even cross the mind to ask them to print 'whoeverdidthisformisanidiot' as your first name.

9. The next page is for you to register how you want to be contacted by the WA, TFW, CCBC, the bloke down the road and so on.  Just to prove the incompetents haven't been sleeping on the job, the final amusing confirmation of idiocy appears when you choose to reject all communications from all sources and simply click on 'submit'.

A dreaded red message appears demanding you select which language you don't want to be contacted in. 

That's right.  You've rejected all the communications options, yet it still wants to know what language not to send you anything in. Perhaps they're developing telepathy?

Now it may seem amusing, and to anyone who knows and understands moronic programming it's easy enough to deal with. But a lot of folk aren't computer savvy. A lot of folk will assume because it's from an official body it must be right, despite the form being littered with inaccuracies.

They were sufficiently stupid not to allow for the massive demand initially, so it crashed the servers. Now on the relaunched site they post this travesty of an online aplication process which wouldn't gain a grade 1 in the new GCSE grades.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on October 09, 2019, 01:32:35 pm
 _))*  Apart from the enjoyment of reading the above, my gratitude for the explanation, I would have suffered.........and the computer sends its thanks.

PS all done, TA
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: DVT on October 09, 2019, 04:55:58 pm
Simple solution - do what I've done for my wife (renewal) and myself (new application) ... print off the form ... fill it in using block capitals ... get two copies of everything they ask for ... put in envelope ... address it ... stick a stamp in it ... drop into post box.

... a whole lot simpler !!!

I suspect that the online form was designed by someone who never has to use it - so often the case these days - it's called progress!
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2019, 12:33:01 pm
Arriva announce cut backs ...
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on December 17, 2019, 09:52:26 am
Wales bus pass replacement:    deadline 31 12 19
Transport for Wales say that 30 per cent of holders who've used their passes in the last 12 months have not yet applied
.

Renew, Apply for or Manage your Card     https://portal.tfw.wales/en

Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on January 15, 2020, 10:16:30 am
Wales bus pass replacement: Third of active holders have not re-applied for Concessionary Travel Card.... there might be confusion over the extended time for the renewal, both the 31st Jan. and Feb. 29th are mentioned....... to clarify I believe the latest you can apply is the 31st Jan allowing four weeks for processing, and allowing use of the old card until 29th Feb.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-bus-pass-replacement-third-17568317 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-bus-pass-replacement-third-17568317)

How to apply
Although online applications are the quickest and easiest way of applying, paper applications are also available by calling 0300 303 4240 or by emailing  travelcards@tfw.wales .

Title: Re: Public Transport.............Arriva bus service changes
Post by: SteveH on April 27, 2020, 03:46:05 pm
Arriva bus service changes announced as coronavirus forces firm to scrap routes and reduce others
The firm said they have had to make 'difficult decisions' due to the outbreak


Arriva has announced changes to its bus services across North Wales.

Some have been scrapped and others are reduced amid the coronavirus crisis.

Arriva said they had to make "difficult decisions" in the wake of the outbreak.

A spokesman said: "In light of the government's ruling and the lower numbers of people travelling, we can confirm that we have had to reduce the frequency of some services.

"However, we will still be operating our key routes and have lifted the timing restrictions on concessionary passes to ensure customers can continue to access critical services and key workers are kept moving.

Full story and time table changes......

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-bus-service-changes-announced-18155431 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-bus-service-changes-announced-18155431)
Title: Re: Public Transport Number 12 bus changes
Post by: SteveH on June 30, 2021, 12:07:38 pm
A BUS service has been reduced following staff sickness.

Arriva Wales said its number 12 service between Llandudno and Rhyl will operate on limited basis as a result of the staff shortage.

These include the 9.30am bus from Rhyl to Llandudno, 11am from Llandudno to Rhyl, 12pm from Rhyl to Llandudno, 1.45pm from Llandudno to Rhyl, 3pm from Rhyl to Llandudno, 4.45pm from Llandudno to Rhyl, 4.15pm from Rhyl to Llandudno, 6pm from Llandudno to Rhyl, 7.20pm from Rhyl to Llandudno, and 8.30pm from Llandudno to Rhyl.

"Due to increased level of staff sickness the following number 12 services will unfortunately not operate," Arriva Wales said.

"We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.
Title: Re: Public Transport..NW Transport Commission Progress Statement January 2023
Post by: SteveH on January 28, 2023, 10:37:05 am
I came across this link from the WG, North Wales Transport Commission Progress Statement January 2023 lots of information for those interested..........

1. Introduction
The North Wales Transport Commission was established in spring 2022 to assess
the problems, opportunities, challenges and objectives for realising a sustainable
integrated and multi-modal transport system in north Wales.
The Commission is taking a multi-modal approach, looking at all north Wales to
consider how modal shift can be achieved in both urban and rural areas. The
Commission?s remit covers the local authority areas of Anglesey, Gwynedd, Conwy,
Denbighshire, Flintshire and Wrexham.
The Commission is considering interventions in the short, medium and long term to
shift to more sustainable means of travel and freight movement.
We want these improvements to offer viable alternatives to the private car through a
transport system that makes life better for all people in the region, in both urban and
rural areas and supports the region?s journey to net zero.
This progress statement summarises our work to date and explains:
? The progress we have made so far in understanding people?s movements.
? Our views on the transport challenges and what the opportunities are to
improve transport, and
? The transport options within specific areas that support less use of the private
car and enable moves to public transport and active travel.


Full report   https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2023-01/nwtc-progress-statement-final.pdf


Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on January 28, 2023, 03:11:37 pm
I only became aware of this Quango a fortnight ago. It's not quite clear how they are consulting actual transport users on the ground and interesting that the secretariat is in Cathays Park, Cardiff - presumably no room at the WG offices at the Junction ??  The Commissioners bar one seem to have a limited, if any, associations with North Wales and other than a TfW employee none seems to give any indication of using public transport in the area.

The document seems a bit light on the potential tourist traffic which could be generated into Llandudno for example by more through trains from the resort to NW England and the Midlands.
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: cygnusx-1 on February 02, 2023, 05:08:55 pm
If we have trains from the midlands etc it will be like a return to Saturdays in the 1970s when trains from as far as Scarborough were filling 6? platforms at Llandudno station. Next we will be told that boat trains will be running non-stop Chester to Holyhead to enable us to purchase cheap Rover tickets to get to Chester and catch a boat train for the thrill of a non-stop trip along the coast.......happy days!
Title: Re: Public Transport............Arriva new timetables
Post by: SteveH on January 07, 2024, 09:53:45 am
Arriva Buses Wales announce new timetables after 20mph limit hit schedules
The bus giant is making changes all across its services for North Wales

Last year one of Wales's biggest bus operators announced that the new 20mph limit is causing "challenging operational conditions". Welsh Government's 20mph limit for most previously 30mph roads in Wales came into force on September 17.

Within 10 days Arriva Wales told North Wales Live it would be forced to review routes and timetables because of slower journeys. They said it has been hitting punctuality on routes and increasing the length of many journeys.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-buses-wales-announce-new-28393389?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: SteveH on February 01, 2024, 09:58:52 am
A BUS company has been slammed after cutting a pick-up point from its regular route due to the 20mph speed limit rule.

Arriva has admitted it will no longer pick up residents in the village of Penrhynside, leaving passengers, many of them elderly, stranded.

A public meeting has now been organised, but Aberconwy MS Janet Finch-Saunders has criticised the bus company.

?People can?t walk down from there to Llandudno. We need a bus replacement. We definitely need a better bus service than what we?ve got. We are all annoyed at Arriva for pulling it without consultation with residents and members (Conwy councillors).

https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/24089273.arriva-cuts-conwy-village-bus-route-due-20mph-speed-limit/
Title: Re: Public Transport
Post by: Cambrian on February 01, 2024, 01:11:50 pm
I seriously wonder how much time would be saved by omitting the simple, short detour via Bryn y Bia Road taken by the 14/15 services. Arriva have previously thought about rationalising the 12/14/15 in that area and the former MD of the Company was quite keen to divert the 12 via Bryn y Bia to give an evening service for Penrhynside.  There were howls from some of the denizens who did not seem to want the hoi polloi briefly glancing into their gardens from the top of double deckers!  Needless to say the denizens were supported by the AM who interceded with the MD and the idea was dropped.

Arriva tried this 20mph argument in Anglesey and following an outcry the route has been reinstated via the village affected.  Interesting to see what happens in this case.

Some years ago, CCBC's Public Transport guy designed an improved road traffic layout for the top of Penrhyn Hill which would have enabled the 12 to stop and serve Penrhynside.  However Welsh Govt would not fund the proposal!