Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: DaveR on September 20, 2010, 06:44:45 PM

Title: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 20, 2010, 06:44:45 PM
Already featured in our 'Local Eyesores' section, I feel the future of the Pier is such a major issue in Colwyn Bay that it deserves its own thread. Has it already reached the pint at which an economic renovation is unfeasible or could a dedicated band of volunteers wrest control from the Administrators and begin the slow process of repair?

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Nearly 40 years separate these two photos of Colwyn Bay Pier....

The top one, taken in the early 1970s, shows a bustling pier with Golden Goose Entertainments (Admission Free!), Dixieland Palace Showbar with Cabaret & Dancing, The Lincoln Suite (whatever that is?) and Golden Fry Restaurant.

Today's photo shows a closed and shuttered pier. A cheap looking extension was built onto the front of the Golden Goose sometime in the 1980s, with the Golden Goose itself becoming a combined amusements/cafe/bar area. The Dixieland Showbar (later CJs) and Golden Fry Restaurant both closed in the late 1980s and the pavilion building (to the right) they were housed in is falling further into decay. Even the ornamental turrets have gone from the roof towers! The pier's owner, Steve Hunt, was made bankrupt in 2008 by Conwy County Borough Council in a spat over unpaid rates and the pier has remained closed ever since.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 20, 2010, 11:34:41 PM
For what its worth ...I believe that if the powers that be in the re-generation committee want a pier there, they will throw money at it.

If they set there fac against it,  it will be gone ...almost instantly.

The recent engineering survey showed that the Ironwork is in suprisingly good condition.  That in itself should be the basis of keeping it, and re-inventing it.

But....I'm pessimistic.


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Indigo on September 21, 2010, 06:22:03 PM
Good news that the engineering survey shows the ironwork to be in good condition. A testimony to Victorian craftsmen and another reason to retain the pier.
There is a foundry in Yorkshire that have the capability of replicating original cast iron mouldings. They can also manufacture tie-bars. All at a price but at least we know the work can still be done.

I still think that giving the superstructure a facelift is job one.  It may be that a new superstructure is required; but for this moment in time a paint job will suffice to remove the tired look.

Might I ask who actually owns it now?  Is it Mr. S. Hunt or some other party?  Whilst the legal challenges are still dragging on the pier is deteriorating. I hope these delays are not being orchestrated with the view that the pier will, in time, be scheduled for demolition.

The pier in is private ownership and is (supposedly) not eligible for an EU grant.
Whilst the local council are getting excited about renovating Colwyn Bay and its environs with buckets of cash from the EU, the pier might be problematic in the grand scheme. In my view the pier is a focal point in Colwyn Bay and cannot be left out of the scheme.  No, this pier belongs to the people of Colwyn Bay and must be kept that way. I think a lot more voices are required to rally the cause.



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 21, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
Good post, Indigo, and welcome to the Forum!  :)

The issue of ownership is a thorny one. Since Mr Hunt was made bankrupt, the pier has been in the hands of Administrators who, I've no doubt, would dearly love to get it off their hands as soon as possible. I've seen mention of a minimum price of £10,000 in order to recover their expenses so far. There is both a Pier Steering Group and a Victoria Pier Pressure Group set up, but progress seems to be painfully slow.

I would be in favour of a community group buying the pier from the Administrators and it being run as a community venture. The Pier was the hub of Colwyn Bay social life up until the 1970s and it could now perform that role again, along with providing a host of attractions for visitors and locals alike, eg. cafe, bar, amusements, childrens rides, small concert venue, exhibition hall. The restoration process could really bring the community together and provide training in various building skills, along with work for small businesses in the area.

You're quite right in saying that a good coat of paint would transform the exterior of the buildings for a couple of years until more permanent repairs could be carried out.  The strategy for a community group should be to try and get the main building at the entrance looking smarter and reopening all of the facilities/attractions within, thus generating the cashflow to begin other work. Members on this forum have, in the past, suggested a market in the old Ballroom as a way of initially generating revenue and bringing people back onto the pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on September 21, 2010, 08:58:50 PM
Personally I find the saddest thing about the pier in its present state is the five, maybe six large signs for everyone to see ---- "O P E N."   Could someone, anyone, get a bucket of paint and wipe these out.  Mike
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 21, 2010, 09:31:33 PM
A rarely seen aerial shot of the Pier in its current state, as taken by our very own Mike Owen:
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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Indigo on September 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Thanks for the welcome DaveR.

Ah! so its back to money again. Whilst I agree that Mr. Hunt must feel aggrieved to be treated so shabbily he will have a monumental task of regaining his investment. To my mind he bought the pier for two reasons - he likes piers, as most of us do, and he wants to make money from his dream. Nothing wrong with that. However if he is bankrupt he will only be able to help and advise the volunteers and I am sure that the community would go along with all his suggestions.

He has done more than most in taking a chance in the purchase of the pier. He must have got caught because he had two square inches of unaccounted floor space that the council decided they needed a 'business rate' for.

If the administrators want rid then an appropriate fee (less an amount to recover the cost of recovering the onset of deterioration whilst it was in administration) should be proposed. The figure of £10,000 to recover costs is probably correct but looking at the pier after over a year of neglect it would seem that it would take £12,000 to fix - I may be cheaper to have the administrators pay for recovering the pier to the same point as it was when Mr. Hunt was so rudely bankrupted.  Anyway we all know it 'aint going to happen and the fat-cats will still make money out of it.

DaveR you mentioned two groups the Pier Steering Group and a Victoria Pier Pressure Group. I don't know much about them. Hmm ! - not totally in favour in having separate groups trying to do the same job form different angles. I have been there before and it never worked then.  When there is more than one there are always choices and disagreements and it gets so tedious and time wasting.
Steering Group and Pressure Group ??  I think it must be me but it doesn't sound very positive. The word action is missing. I am sure they are doing good work behind the scenes. Pity they don't post here.

Moving on. Is it not possible to generate revenue by accepting donations. All donors will have their name entered in the roll book (not the donation amount) and possibly a certificate to say they have helped the pier. Additionally those who have donated will be allowed a small discount on the pier attractions.

Those guys with their jet skies would donate because I an sure they would just love to have an affiliation with the pier.

If 10,000 people donated £1 it would be nearly there. Better still if 2000 people donated £5 - Something needs to be done and quickly.  Ooops! do we have to put all these ideas before the two groups.

@Mike. The first can of paint should be used to wipe out the sign - maybe you could do that.

I've rambled on to long.   See you again soon. Bye. . ...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 22, 2010, 08:34:59 PM
What I never quite understood is why Steve Hunt didn't just pay the disputed amount of rates back in 2008 and then sue them to get it back. I believe the disputed amount was only about £5000, yet Mr Hunt has now lost practically everything, as the pier that he paid £100000 for is pretty much worthless, not to mention out of his control.

The Steering Group was set up by David Jones MP at the second public meeting to try and break the impasse surrounding the pier. Why there needs to be a separate Pressure Group, I'm not quite sure? One focussed group would be far more effective, I'd have thought and the model for them to follow is definitely that of the group working to save Hastings Pier:
http://www.hpwrt.co.uk/ (http://www.hpwrt.co.uk/)

I'm told that things are happening 'behind the scenes' with these groups but newsflow seems to be very sparse - I feel that the momentum achieved with the two public meetings has been pretty much lost as nothing has happened in the 3 or 4 months since.

And every day that passes, the pier decays a little more. The pier survived the storms last Winter but it is only a matter of time before there is a structural failure of some sort. I've been saying it for the last couple of years but time really is running out...  :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on September 22, 2010, 08:43:28 PM
Going back to the photo of the pier, I'm described as "our very own Mike Owen."  This brought a tear or two to my eye----its been a very long time since I was anyones very own. Indeed, I do remember once someone saying to me that I looked as if noone owned me!!!  Thanks Mike
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 22, 2010, 10:54:21 PM
One thing emerges loud and clear to me from the last few postings on this thread.

That being, that is has gone very quiet indeed since the ''packed out'' meetings of earlier this year.
Is it a case of,  ''yes we all care .... but no we don't want to do anything'' ... or is it.. ''we don't actually know what to do'' !!

There are a lot of rheorical questions, about why didn't Steve Hunt do a certain thing, or why don't CCBC do another thing ....but truth told, Dave is absolutely right... it will be too late in the near future, and the bill for regeneration will go from a couple of million, to a fundamental re-build of £20m.
Maybe thats what CCBC are hoping for,  in the same way Anwyl behaved over the Pen Morfa hotel.

Did the 2 groups formed to save the Pier ever commit to a newsletter?, or other form of ongoing information?  Because if they did, I must have missed every months instalment.  Come on guys, what (if anything) is happening??   We will join in and contribute, if we know what we are working towards.



 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 25, 2010, 10:13:26 PM
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One thing emerges loud and clear to me from the last few postings on this thread.

That being, that is has gone very quiet indeed since the ''packed out'' meetings of earlier this year.
Is it a case of,  ''yes we all care .... but no we don't want to do anything'' ... or is it.. ''we don't actually know what to do'' !!

There are a lot of rheorical questions, about why didn't Steve Hunt do a certain thing, or why don't CCBC do another thing ....but truth told, Dave is absolutely right... it will be too late in the near future, and the bill for regeneration will go from a couple of million, to a fundamental re-build of £20m.
Maybe thats what CCBC are hoping for,  in the same way Anwyl behaved over the Pen Morfa hotel.

Did the 2 groups formed to save the Pier ever commit to a newsletter?, or other form of ongoing information?  Because if they did, I must have missed every months instalment.  Come on guys, what (if anything) is happening??   We will join in and contribute, if we know what we are working towards.
There is a Facebook Group for the Victoria Pier Pressure Group here:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367187869776 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367187869776)

Ermmm...that's about it!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 25, 2010, 10:14:17 PM
How about we return it to this design (and pier length):
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/3751644619_52d6536181_z.jpg?zz=1) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/3751644619/)
[Pier and Pavillion, Colwyn Bay, Wales] (LOC) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/3751644619/) by The Library of Congress (http://www.flickr.com/people/library_of_congress/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 25, 2010, 11:10:16 PM
Looks too top heavy ... It'll never stand up...!

But it obviously did ..for many a long year!

Wouldn't that be amazing.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on September 26, 2010, 12:51:44 AM
Here's one from the opposite direction.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 26, 2010, 07:06:38 PM
It looks majestic, amazing..and very flimsy, in equal measure...

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on September 27, 2010, 08:12:55 AM
It was!

Trouble is, those things were built when they could provide the main draw for tourists visiting the towns. These days, they're simply one of many - although the experiences of places where they've invested heavily in 'legacy-type' attractions suggests there's still money to be made.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on October 05, 2010, 09:37:55 AM
Sadly, another pier gone, this time at Hastings :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-11473688 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-11473688)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 05, 2010, 09:49:20 AM
What happened at Hastings could easily happen at Colwyn Bay, the pier is in a similar condition.  :(

With Hastings, it was a real shame, because they had a very active 'save the pier' group that had forced the local council to do a compulsory purchase of the pier so they could take it over and restore it as a community facility.

Some photos of the fire by Simon Hookey on Flickr:

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5053189977_8f8cb60c2e_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/13388624@N06/5053189977/)
Hastings Pier Fire 009u (http://www.flickr.com/photos/13388624@N06/5053189977/#) by Simon Hookey (http://www.flickr.com/people/13388624@N06/), on Flickr

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5053822064_390fc085fc_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/13388624@N06/5053822064/)
Hastings Pier Fire 003bu (http://www.flickr.com/photos/13388624@N06/5053822064/#) by Simon Hookey (http://www.flickr.com/people/13388624@N06/), on Flickr

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5055168324_1f3a522265.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_sellens/5055168324/)
Hastings Pier (1) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_sellens/5055168324/) by Phil Sellens (http://www.flickr.com/people/phil_sellens/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 06, 2010, 12:24:44 AM
I love Piers, always have...and this is a shocking tragedy...
Scumbag Arsonists too ..!   
They will no doubt be sentenced to 12 months probabtion ... when they should really be hung, drawn and quartered.

It could EASILY happen at Colwyn Bay ... not so easily in Llandudno, (I sincerely hope) as there are fire prevention systems in place ... security on duy, but more importantly there are no high buildings which would spread the fire.

I am deeply gutted for the townspeople of Hastings, and I hope and pray that the iron pilings at least are not beyond repair.

It looks bleak though.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2010, 08:45:08 AM
I've been wondering what the possibilities of building a completely new type of Pier might be.  If single, 'Y"-shaped concrete pilings were used to support a deck, it might be a great deal cheaper than attempting to resuscitate  the current ironwork.  Still cost a fair bit, of course, but at least it might last for a longer period - and even attract some serious investment.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 06, 2010, 09:35:27 AM
Concrete has been used on several seaside piers but it is not as resilient as the cast iron pile, surprisingly. The pier at Boscombe was completely rebuilt using concrete in 1959-62 but the pierhead had to be closed in 1991 and the main neck of the pier in 2001, due to structural problems. Compare that with Llandudno's 1876 pier, which is still going strong with the original cast iron piles. Indeed, it is never the cast iron piles that cause the problems, but the latticework girders that rest on them - they suffer badly from corrosion. This is certainly the case at Colwyn Bay, where the piles are fine but approximately 40% of the girders need replacement/repair.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2010, 09:55:29 AM
Interesting.  Cast iron must resist NaCl quite well.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 06, 2010, 11:00:16 AM
Cast iron generally has a better resistance to corrosion than wrought iron and steel; this is due to its high carbon content (5%) and crystalline microstructure including flakes of graphite.

If anyone is interested in the condition of Hastings Pier structure, here is the report:
http://www.hastings.gov.uk/news/pier_structural_appraisal_b.pdf (http://www.hastings.gov.uk/news/pier_structural_appraisal_b.pdf)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2010, 11:20:59 AM
These flakes of graphite certainly get around

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20101006/ZNYT05/10063014/1109/sports?Title=Physics-Nobel-Honors-Work-on-Ultra-Thin-Carbon (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20101006/ZNYT05/10063014/1109/sports?Title=Physics-Nobel-Honors-Work-on-Ultra-Thin-Carbon)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 06, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
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Cast iron generally has a better resistance to corrosion than wrought iron and steel; this is due to its high carbon content (5%) and crystalline microstructure including flakes of graphite.

If anyone is interested in the condition of Hastings Pier structure, here is the report:
http://www.hastings.gov.uk/news/pier_structural_appraisal_b.pdf (http://www.hastings.gov.uk/news/pier_structural_appraisal_b.pdf)

I found that report fascinating ... just goes to show what an anorak I have become.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 06, 2010, 09:46:51 PM
You will also savour the new Business plan drawn up for the Pier before the fire then:
http://www.hpwrt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Hastings-Pier-Business-Plan-Overview-Dec-09-v6.pdf (http://www.hpwrt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Hastings-Pier-Business-Plan-Overview-Dec-09-v6.pdf)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 06, 2010, 10:00:08 PM
OMG !! ..... How stupid of me ... how did I miss that opportunity?

The sorely needed indoor childrens play area needs to be created on Colwyn Bay Pier, in the landward building .... and use THAT revenue to regenerate the rest of the pier over time.
That can be accelerated by WAG grants, the issuing of Shares ... or the ability to borrow based on the income stream.
Forget the original indoor market idea.... the Kids indoor play area is the way to go.

Tell the Save The Pier people without delay.



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on October 07, 2010, 06:43:57 PM
Hello there,
I’m new to posting on this forum but I have gone through phases of reading the Three Towns Blog but have been online much recently. Love the new forum!

With regards to the pier…

I may have picked up a couple of things about the pier, some may have been all ready posted and some not… please don’t shoot me!

The pier is still legally in the ownership of RPH (Royce, Peeling and Green) the receivers based in Manchester representing Mr Withernshaw (sp?).

Mr Steve Hunt still has the keys to the pier.

The ‘Conwy County Borough Council’ do not want to own the pier and do not have the funds to go about this but they do (as does the regeneration body) want the pier or something of focal point where the pier is to bring people through the town and on to the waterfront (works starting at the end of the month near the pier I believe). They have a ‘Task & Finish’ group and the pier is on their list of ‘to do’.

The ‘Victoria Pier Pressure Group’ got together after the 1st public meeting to keep pressure on the council to not drop the issue of the pier and to ensure that there was a 2nd meeting.

David Jones decided before the 2nd public meeting that he wanted to make a ‘Steering Group’ involving the community, which he offered to all that attended the meeting. The pressure group stood up and about 8-10 other people did.
David Jones collected the list of details and there was to be a meeting arranged after the May elections. This however did not happen due to the election! He couldn’t pass on the details of people’s names and addresses to anybody but the pressure group went on ahead picking up a few more members.

During the past few months nothing much has been in the press or ‘online’ as all parties involved with the ‘what to do with the pier problem’ from what I know have all been quite busy behind the scenes but with so many issues hanging around the pier it is not something that is easily talked about in public as it tends to anger some group or somebody I guess.

RPG have been in talks with the CCBC. VPPG have spoken with Steve Hunt. The T&FG have been in talks with the surveyors. The CCBC have been in talks with VPPG. RPG have met with the VPPG and so on and so forth. Nothing official but it’s always good to keep open communication and throw ideas around. Nothing has been put in writing from what I know; it has all been dialogue between parties for options of how to save the pier.

With regards to RPG, CCBC and Mr Hunt that could affect what happens to the pier. If the pier is still in the hands of RPG by law it will revert back to Mr Hunt after 3 years, this is up on July 2011. I think RPG does not want to have the pier in their hands as it is in their best interest to sell it to gain the money for the creditors.
CCBC as a whole do not want to own the pier but would like to something done with it and aim to support it if not in private hands.

I believe that a community cooperative not for profit type group is the best way to get funding and grants. The Welsh Assembly Government and Heritage Lottery fund would be accessible for funding and grants if such a group owns the pier. I also believe there are many others that would be to.  If the pier is in private hands it closes the door to most funding and grants and the pier would need over time to get it started on the way to a complete overhaul and the few million pounds it would need. Long term for the pier to be viable it has to be self-sufficient and be a benefit to the community.     

That’s just my two pence!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 08, 2010, 08:20:14 AM
Welcome to the Forum, SCMP, and a great first post from you.  :)

I agree that the pier needs to be run by a non-profit group and I just wish something would happen to break the deadlock so they can get stuck in before the pier deteriorates further.

Do you know if RPG are willing to entertain offers from potential buyers for the pier, as I'm surprised no-one has put a bid in so far?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on October 08, 2010, 06:38:13 PM
Hi,
Thanks for the welcome DaveR  :)

The non profit way is they way to go i think as long as it works along side the council and gets the proper advice, backing for appropriate bodies and liability cover etc... Even this way it will take a very long road to be restored but at least it will be moving!

RPG are willing to entertain 'reasoable' offers. They would normally value a business property on the value of the turnover but because the pier was barely trading before it was closed down and accounts sketchy it would be valued £0 in theory. The other option it that they may just price it at scrap value which would really be worthless due to the de-listing process (yes even that awful building at the front it listed) that it would have to undertake and the cost of pulling it down lol so really they would be throwing 'ball park' figures to cover costs and the creditors :-\

SCMP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 09, 2010, 08:13:14 PM
So if I offered them a pound they might take it?  :o ;D

Seriously, if the administrators are willing to entertain offers....then why doesnt the Pressure Group make a bid for, say, a  few thousand quid? If it is accepted, then its time to raise the money - a couple of thousand would be no problem. At the first pier meeting, the chap from CBI Insurance pledged £10,000 to the pier fund as I recall.

The time for talking is over....or the various groups will still be talking when the pier collapses into the sea!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 10, 2010, 04:34:43 PM
Just remembered I have the structural survey for Colwyn Bay Pier that was done last year - I know that Fester will enjoy reading it!  :)

2009 Surveyors report:
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Plan of Pier:
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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 10, 2010, 07:04:53 PM
These are the men that built the Pier:
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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 10, 2010, 09:34:44 PM
Is that Steve Hunt, front row, far right, sitting down?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 11, 2010, 06:20:18 PM
Sharp eyes there, Trojan!  L0L

Here's the Pier in 1971, still a thriving business back then. Can it be revived again?  ;)

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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 11, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Just needs a bit of paint!  :o

Maybe that van is the previous owner moving his stuff out?  ?{}?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 11, 2010, 07:48:34 PM
Organised squatters?




 :twoface:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 11, 2010, 08:06:38 PM
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Organised squatters?
Even squatters would think twice before staying there in its current state!  :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on October 11, 2010, 09:04:55 PM
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Just remembered I have the structural survey for Colwyn Bay Pier that was done last year - I know that Fester will enjoy reading it!  :)


Hi there,
There is a more recent survey that has been completed. I think the council where given it last week as they paid for it... or is that us lol? Not sure when it is made public though but i do know it is much more indepth and the figures are not 'guestemets' like the 2009 report.

Also the numbers that are on the cards with RPG seem to be about £100K! That seems a little far fetched to me! Maybe when they see what the surveyors report says they will rethink their prices and they could pay somebody to take the pier off their hands!

Ah well... we shall see!

SCMP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 11, 2010, 09:08:20 PM
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Just needs a bit of paint!  :o

Maybe that van is the previous owner moving his stuff out?  ?{}?

Hmmmm, it's a Merc Dave.  ?{}?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 11, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
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Hi there,
There is a more recent survey that has been completed. I think the council where given it last week as they paid for it... or is that us lol? Not sure when it is made public though but i do know it is much more indepth and the figures are not 'guestemets' like the 2009 report.

Also the numbers that are on the cards with RPG seem to be about £100K! That seems a little far fetched to me! Maybe when they see what the surveyors report says they will rethink their prices and they could pay somebody to take the pier off their hands!

Ah well... we shall see!

SCMP
£100k!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o They must be dreaming; that's what Steve Hunt paid for the Pier originally when it was fully operational, not a boarded up wreck like it is now. Yeh, they need to revise their estimates downwards...by about £99,999!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 11, 2010, 11:35:01 PM
I, for one, would be most interested in studying this latest factual report.
I was completely unaware that my council tax had been spent on another survey.

Now that it has, I would like to peruse it... I have paid for it.

It seems to me that the Administrators cannot possibly hope to recoup £100,000 for what remains of this pier.
It is an entirely uncommercial figure... unless, they are aware of a pot of cash from either CCBC or the Welsh Assembly, which they want a slice of before releasing it.
This issue bears closer investigation.

 

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 AM
Indeed.  They'll want out of the whole thing, I'd have thought, and that price tag seems destined to prevent an early exit, to put it mildly.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 12, 2010, 09:16:45 PM
A prosperous Pier cafe in 1959:

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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on October 12, 2010, 10:41:13 PM
This is a picture of colwynbay pier 1905

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 13, 2010, 08:13:02 AM
How tidy it all looked back then.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on October 13, 2010, 05:05:43 PM
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How tidy it all looked back then.
I can't get over the size of the pavillion it looks huge.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 13, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
Yes, it was probably twice the height of the pavilion that's there now. Heres a pic of the interior of that original building:

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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 13, 2010, 08:10:23 PM
A completely fantastic structure, as was the Llandudno Pier Pavilion.
Allowed to decay and fall into ruination through mismanagement and neglect.

Trying to preserve them, or doing anything tangible with Colwyn Bay Pier seems to be like ...  >?>??

There I used it ...whoo hoo !!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 13, 2010, 09:36:47 PM
Some pics of the present Pavilion on the Pier; hard to believe it was once an attractive building I know:

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...how it looks now:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/2896417770_c15122203d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/2896417770/)

Piering (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/2896417770/) by SnakeCorp (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/27955724_10d8aac6a7.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/27955724/)

Victoria Pier Pavilion, Colwyn Bay, North Wales (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/27955724/) by SnakeCorp (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 14, 2010, 10:23:44 AM
A structural report has revealed it could cost about £5.5m to restore the Victorian pier in Colwyn Bay.

Representatives of various bodies including Conwy council and the Pier Pressure Group have decided to work together to obtain funding. Clwyd West MP David Jones urged the council to take urgent action "about safety concerns raised in the report". Ownership of the 110-year-old pier is still with insolvency trustees.

The results of the structural appraisal of the pier were presented to the Colwyn Pier Task and Finish Group by consulting engineers Posford Datrys. Council officers and councillors were joined by representatives of the Pier Pressure Group, the insolvency trustee and Welsh Assembly Government to hear the details.

Issues of ownership, work required, and how to obtain funding for the restoration were all discussed. "I'm very pleased to report that we had a very constructive and positive meeting," said Conwy councillor Brian Cossey. "We're moving forward, considering the funding options and the potential of a sustainable business model," he added. Local MP David Jones said urgent action needed to be taken.

He said: "I'm particularly concerned about the condition of the pier which it seems to me to amount to potentially a danger to the public."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-11534197 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-11534197)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 15, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
In the Weekly News, it says that CCBC are going to pay for the entire beach part of the pier to be fenced off due to the potential danger from falling debris. It's worth mentioning that Cllr John Oddy urged them to do that strongly last year but they didn't consider it necessary then. I walked under the pier back then and there was a small piece of a girder that weighed maybe 20kg or more just hanging in mid air, so loosely attached that it was swaying in the breeze!  :o Incredibly dangerous.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 15, 2010, 11:05:56 PM
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In the Weekly News, it says that CCBC are going to pay for the entire beach part of the pier to be fenced off due to the potential danger from falling debris. It's worth mentioning that Cllr John Oddy urged them to do that strongly last year but they didn't consider it necessary then. I walked under the pier back then and there was a small piece of a girder that weighed maybe 20kg or more just hanging in mid air, so loosely attached that it was swaying in the breeze!  :o Incredibly dangerous.

I remember the photo's you took. Must have been risky to take them.   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 16, 2010, 12:12:44 AM
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In the Weekly News, it says that CCBC are going to pay for the entire beach part of the pier to be fenced off due to the potential danger from falling debris. It's worth mentioning that Cllr John Oddy urged them to do that strongly last year but they didn't consider it necessary then. I walked under the pier back then and there was a small piece of a girder that weighed maybe 20kg or more just hanging in mid air, so loosely attached that it was swaying in the breeze!  :o Incredibly dangerous.

Here's the Plan ... build a small campsite on the beach,  wait the required amount of time for said 20kg girder to fall naturally,   allow said girder to impart a glancing blow to your skull ..... contact CCBC or the Administrators and point them in the direction of their Pubic Liability Insurance.
Slam your claim in,   pocket the £5.5m Compo,   .... by the Pier with that dosh.... renovate it accordingly.
Then its yours!  Simple.
Sometimes Dave, you just don't think things through.  L0L

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 16, 2010, 07:59:59 AM
Renovate it accordingly...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 16, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
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I remember the photo's you took. Must have been risky to take them.   
Not really, mate....  _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 16, 2010, 08:37:41 PM
Kidding apart, there was a serious risk of someone, probably kids playing under the pier, getting killed by the loose bits of metal:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 16, 2010, 09:09:04 PM
Recent aerial shot of the Pier:

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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bellringer on October 16, 2010, 09:10:51 PM
It's a really pitiful sight - so sad to see it in such a state.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 16, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
Dave, do you know if any of the Iron piles are missing at the very end of the Pier?   It looks like only 2 central columns are holding up a wide upper structure?   Maybe it was designed that way,  but it looks a little 'thin' to me ...

 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 16, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
The final 40m of the Pier was the last to be built, in 1917, to house the Bijou Theatre. The survey report says that all of the cast iron piles are present but the girders are in a very poor condition and a large section of the handrail has unfortunately collapsed into the sea.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 17, 2010, 02:59:55 AM
What's the betting it eventually gets demolished?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 17, 2010, 05:59:27 PM
I wouldn't bet against it .... there were 2 piers at Morecambe, which became delapidated, and despite lots of local pressure, they got demolished.

It is the fate that eventually befalls all piers.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 17, 2010, 06:21:32 PM
No-one ever went to Morecambe after about 1985 though, whereas the prom at Colwyn Bay is packed in the Summer and busy on nice weekends in the Winter (even though there is very little to do there at present). I'd lay a tenner that the pier will be restored rather than demolished.  D)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 18, 2010, 05:52:09 AM
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No-one ever went to Morecambe after about 1985 though, whereas the prom at Colwyn Bay is packed in the Summer and busy on nice weekends in the Winter (even though there is very little to do there at present). I'd lay a tenner that the pier will be restored rather than demolished.  D)

We still have a tenner riding on Gwynt-y-Mor don't we Dave?  WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 18, 2010, 08:11:01 AM
We do, and I'll pleased to do a photo that wins me that tenner.  :P D)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 18, 2010, 09:48:42 AM
What is the subject of your Gwynt Y Mor bet?

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 18, 2010, 09:53:45 AM
It was a while back...something like...the Save Our Scenery brigade devised a mockup of how the bay would look after the windfarm was completed (as in Trojan's pic). I said it wouldn't look anywhere near as visible as that for most of the time, Trojan disagreed so the bet was made.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 18, 2010, 10:18:38 AM
I see ... well, from the images I saw on NPower's own website, I think it will look pretty damn horrible.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 18, 2010, 10:31:15 AM
I don't even notice them anymore.  :)

I was intrigued by this statement by John Lawson Reay on the SOS website:

"Maybe we could start by following Rome where the Government have just decreed that street and floodlighting should be shut down at night."

I think what he actually means is that the streetlights could be dimmed?

Major savings in electricity consumption could be made if streetlights were replaced with LED ones:
http://www.wired.com/culture/design/magazine/16-12/st_streetlamp (http://www.wired.com/culture/design/magazine/16-12/st_streetlamp)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 18, 2010, 02:29:51 PM
Anyway, back on topic, and I noticed this clarification from Jason on his blog about the reported plans to put barriers around the base of the Pier:

"The information we have received is that Warning Signs are being erected (on Friday 15th) at the access points to the beach and NOT barriers as stated in the media."

http://jasonweyman.blogspot.com/2010/10/colwyn-bay-pier.html (http://jasonweyman.blogspot.com/2010/10/colwyn-bay-pier.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 18, 2010, 10:47:05 PM
I did think at the time that fences or barriers were highly unlikely to happen.

For one, they would have to be of very high quality to avoid being destroyed by the tides or storms.

Secondly, it costs money ... and no one has any money of any kind.

Nope, it was never gonna happen.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 19, 2010, 06:22:36 PM
I note that the new Survey of the Pier has now been published online:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/49420/response/121165/attach/3/PD%20CB%20PIER%20MAIN%20STRUCTURE%20REPORT%202%2028%2004%2010.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/49420/response/121165/attach/3/PD%20CB%20PIER%20MAIN%20STRUCTURE%20REPORT%202%2028%2004%2010.pdf)

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/49420/response/121165/attach/2/PD%20CB%20PIER%20PAVILLION%20STRUCTURES%20APPENDED%20REPORT%203%2023.8.10.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/49420/response/121165/attach/2/PD%20CB%20PIER%20PAVILLION%20STRUCTURES%20APPENDED%20REPORT%203%2023.8.10.pdf)

Some photos of the interior of the Pier buildings in their current condition:

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on October 22, 2010, 09:22:39 AM
It can be done!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11601115 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11601115)


Dont ask me where the money will come from though!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 24, 2010, 04:39:25 PM
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We still have a tenner riding on Gwynt-y-Mor don't we Dave?  WWW
We do indeed, mate. What do you reckon?  $hands$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 26, 2010, 08:23:44 AM
*innocently* You've not commented on this one yet, Trojan?  $bounce$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 26, 2010, 08:31:34 AM
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*innocently* You've not commented on this one yet, Trojan?  $bounce$

I was waiting for you to move it into a windfarms topic.

The bet was for Gwynt-y-Mor don't forget, which will not be constructed until 2011.

Your photo is of Rhyl Flats Windfarm. Gwynt-y-Mor windfarm will be much larger - 250 turbines the height of Blackpool Tower.  Z@@
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 26, 2010, 08:49:26 AM
But you can see straight away that the existing wind turbines look nothing like that portrayed in the SOS mockup?  ¢¢##
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on October 26, 2010, 09:27:20 AM
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But you can see straight away that the existing wind turbines look nothing like that portrayed in the SOS mockup?  ¢¢##

Correct.

Well, looks like we're down to 160 from 250 now for Gwynt-y-Mor.

Look at the size of the propeller blades in this BBC clip - almost 50 metres long.  :o They're enough to give John Lawson-Reay a bad hair day  $fan$

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10235242 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10235242)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Quiggs on October 26, 2010, 12:25:15 PM
Impossible.   :D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 26, 2010, 11:28:49 PM
I advocate a guerilla movement ... to blow those evil, monstrous machines out of the seabed... and into smithereens.
Just like on War of the Worlds!

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 26, 2010, 08:09:35 PM
I'm led to believe that an announcement on the future of Colwyn Bay Pier may be coming shortly, and it should be positive news.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 17, 2011, 01:39:16 PM
The Victoria Pier Pressure Group's vision for the Pier:

Colwyn Bay Victoria pier - The social enterprise vision.                 
 
 
Introduction.
 
The Victoria pier in Colwyn Bay provides a focal point on the sweeping promenade which extends from
Old Colwyn to Rhos on Sea to visitors arriving by road or train as they approach Colwyn Bay.
Unfortunately, the pier has fallen into disrepair in recent years and contributes little to either the local
community or the attraction of tourists beyond being an unattractive curiosity and polarising opinion.
 
Colwyn Bay is embarking upon an ambitious and much needed regeneration programme for both the town
and it’s popular promenade, identifying a long term sustainable future for the Victoria pier is an essential
element in this process.
 
The Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier pressure group is a group of local residents and business people who
passionately believe that the pier can once again contribute to the future of the local economy and
community whilst conserving the heritage of a bygone age.
 
The Victorians are are associated with the introduction of many innovations, inventions and engineering
marvels. It is also an age synonymous with the development of the ‘social enterprise’ as a business model,
investing in the sustainable development of communities, their welfare and personal development.
 
The vision of the Colwyn Bay pier pressure group is to refurbish the Victoria pier, develop and maximise
year round income generation opportunities, provide sustainable work and training opportunities for local
people who may be economically or socially inactive and establish an educational facility focussing on the
history of the pier and the development of renewable energy provided by the offshore wind farm viewed
from the pier and promenade. 
 
The regeneration of the Victoria pier as a not for profit enterprise will ensure that all surpluses created will
be re-invested in the ongoing conservation of the pier and improving the quality  and quantity of much
needed work and training opportunities available for local people
 
The following document outlines how this can be achieved. 
 
 
The Social Enterprise model.
 
The Colwyn BayVictoria Pier pressure group is currently working with the Wales Co-operative Centre to
constitute itself as a social enterprise. The enterprise is likely to be constituted as either a Company Limited
by guarantee or as a Community Interest Company, it is hoped to have the company constituted by the end
of January 2011.
 
The company name should reflect the nature of the enterprise, it’s aspirations and, for the purposes of
attracting investment and publicity, be easily remembered. 
 
The company name chosen for this enterprise is ‘Shore Thing’, in two words literally describing what the
pier is and providing a motivational positive image for those accessing the work and training  opportunities
created by the enterprise.
 
The enterprise’s voluntary Directors will be appointed democratically by the Pier pressure group with great
attention being paid to ensuring that relevant skills are represented on the Voluntary Board to manage the
fiscal, administrative, logistical and operational requirements of a project of this magnitude. It is also
important that knowledge and experience in running successful social enterprise is also represented at
Board level.
 
To ensure that the local community is represented, consulted and informed at all times, it would be
preferable for an elected community representative to sit on the Board. Furthermore, local people will be
able to become members of the social enterprise and have voting rights at the AGM.   
 
Heritage.
 
It is the aim of ‘Shore Thing’ to promote the Victorian heritage of the pier to both local people and visitors
to the area.
 
The pier will house a permanent historical exhibition raising awareness of the pier’s history and it’s
contribution to the development of the town and the local economy over the years. Guided tours will be
promoted to local schools to ensure that local children are given access to local history learning
opportunities. All visitors will be able to access exhibitions, literature and guided tours informing them of
not only the pier’s history, but also a history of ‘Social enterprise’ from Victorian times to the model that is
‘Shore Thing’. This will provide an added dimension and focus for the work already undertaken by
the Colwyn Community First  Partnership which has a multi generational heritage project. This
group, with significant input from the Colwyn Bay Civic Society, have developed a guided walk
around the town using multi media and are party to the Councils Townscape Heritage Initiative
proposals.
 
The development of  income generation activities on the pier will aim to focus on re-establishing some of
the skills synonymous with a traditional seaside pier in days gone by. For example, a confectionary outlet
on the pier will be unique in hand making it’s products on site in full view of the public creating an
attraction in itself.
 
The refurbishment of the pier and it’s buildings, although not yet at the formal planning stage, should
reflect and celebrate the innovation and splendour of the Victorians but also acknowledge contemporary
advances in environmentally sound design and construction techniques, many of which hark back to
Victorian times. This link between past and present will also form part of the permanent exhibition and
educational opportunities.
 
Local community.
 
The work of the Victoria Pier Pressure group over the last 2 years has established that general opinion
within the community is in favour of saving the pier from demolition as it is a symbol of the town’s seaside
heritage. To refurbish the pier would in itself therefore be of benefit to the community.
 
To regenerate the pier as a social enterprise focussed on creating sustainable work and training
opportunities for the benefit of local people requiring support back into work would, it stands to reason,  be
much appreciated by the community. 
 
‘Shore Thing’ will seek contracts and partnerships with local organisations (WCVA, Probation Service,
Social Services etc) to provide opportunities for personal development, training and employment for their
clients. All opportunities will be designed to improve the self esteem, basic skills, confidence, social
integration, practical skills and the employment prospects of all participating.  By providing these valuable
opportunities,  ‘Shore Thing’ will contribute to reducing local crime rates, substance misuse, anti-social
behaviour and homelessness.
 
All opportunities created will be directly contributing to the operation of the pier, it’s income generation
activities and it’s facilities. Therefore, each participant will leave a legacy for future participating
beneficiaries.
 
Colwyn Bay, it is generally acknowledged, is lacking a reasonable sized events venue. The refurbishment
of the pier pavilion will provide an accessible venue for the town and will provide opportunity to attract
traditional entertainment to the area to the benefit of local hoteliers, businesses and local economy.
 
The pier enjoyed it’s hey day in the 1950’s and 1960’s and there is an opportunity to develop annual events
which tap into the trend for nostalgia. As nearby Llandudno is synonymous with it’s annual Victorian
extravaganza held over 4 days boosting business in the town, Colwyn Bay could create an annual event
(1950’s themed weekends!) which would benefit local business in the same way. The pier could be the
focal point for such an event, putting on live entertainment and dances in the pavilion.
 
It is important that local people view the pier as part of their community and not as an independent entity.
‘Shore Thing’ will endeavour to work with local council to integrate it’s activities and facilities into the
strategic vision for Colwyn Waterfront as a community and visitor facility.
 
 
Income generation.
 
‘Shore Thing’ fully support the vision for the Waterfront and recognize how the pier can provide facilities
and premises which will help make the whole area a significant attraction and help change the future of the
town.   As a social enterprise, ‘Shore Thing’ will be able to supplement traditional income generating
streams by the generation of  income from contracts to deliver training and return to work initiatives as well
as providing opportunities for clients of the criminal justice sector and adults with learning/physical
disabilities. Generally, opportunities would be of 6 month duration, at the end of which the participant
would have secured a ‘positive’ outcome (mainstream employment, self employed, further education for
example).  However, bespoke contracts can be developed to provide longer term opportunities for
individuals who require intense support (persistent offenders / substance abusers).
 
These social opportunities are provided in the real business environment of the ‘Shore Thing’ pier
enterprise. Without the income generated by these activities and facilities, it is unlikely that sufficient
income would be generated to make the pier sustainable. 
 
(NB At this point I think we should provide an example of how this works and the cash surplus it can
produce. We need to convince HLF that there is a real possibility of  creating a surplus approaching £200K
pa in the medium term to cover ‘extraordinary R&M costs’ Have you got anything Jay?)
 
Although no firm decisions have been made, at this early stage, of the exact balance of facilities to be
provided  ideas being discussed by ‘Shore Thing’ include:
 
- Handmade confectionary outlet and visitor attraction.
- Fishing tackle and bait outlet.
- Cafeteria
- Upmarket restaurant similar to the Jamie Oliver ‘Fifteen’ model.
- Music / entertainment  /  special occasions venue (including catering).
- Handmade art and craft outlet
- Small kiosks for local business rental
- Casino
- Conference facilities
- Unique accommodation
- Pizzeria
- Handmade ice cream outlet.
- Guided educational tours.
 
Partnerships.
 
For a venture of this scale to realise it’s full potential, it is vital that mutually productive partnerships are
developed with local, regional and national government, Non government organisations and the private
sector at both the renovation and subsequent management stages.  The recognition by the Bay Life
Regeneration Board that the pier needs to renovated and its potential contribution to the towns sustainable
future provides ‘Shore Thing’ with a good start in establishing such partnerships.
 
Although ‘Shore Thing’ will be seeking to access grants for both the refurbishment and capacity building
phases of the project, it will view any grants secured as ‘investments’ because it will ensure that funders get
a return for their ‘investment’. ‘Shore Thing’ has no interest in securing investment beyond it’s own ability
to create surplus for reinvestment and will employ sound management and business practices to achieve
this aim.
 
Investment may not only be secured by way of financial contribution, some partnerships will be developed
to secure in kind support such as financial management or access to training facilities. These partnerships
are every bit as valuable as monetary investment as they enable local organisations to optimise resources
with little financial impact. The following bodies are examples of potential key partners in the delivery of
this project:
 
Conwy County Borough Council.Conwy 
 
County Borough Council is widely acknowledged as being supportive to local social enterprises having
developed successful partnerships in the last 10 years with Crest Co-operative and Conwy Furniture
Reclaim, both leading Welsh social enterprises. The Council has also been proactive in supporting and
assisting in the establishment of ‘Conwy Rural Development Centre Ltd’.  Its base – Glasdir – was
developed by the Council on its behalf on a Council site and now leased to the company to manage as core
to its rural community and business development objectives.
 
Conwy County Borough Council has been extremely supportive of the ‘Shore Thing’ social enterprise
vision for the regeneration of the Victoria pier. Furthermore, they have pledged to support and facilitate the
realisation of the vision by giving access to officers and business development managers within the
authority.
 
 
Wales Council for Voluntary Action.
 
Securing contracts with the WCVA to deliver Intermediary Labour Market (ILM) employment
opportunities for local economically inactive people is a key part of the business plan. WCVA are also able
to provide access to training for fledgling social enterprises.
 
Wales Co-operative Centre.
 
WCC have been invaluable to the group in helping to determine the best way forward as a social enterprise,
additional training and support is available to the group and the Directors of ‘Shore Thing’ once
constituted. Note that WCC are the recognized deliverers of business support to social enterprises by the
Welsh Assembly Government.
 
 
Criminal  Justice sector.
 
Both the Probation Service and North Wales Police have indicated their interest in supporting the vision
based on the innovative work undertaken in the County over the last few years in engaging persistent
offenders in supportive employment opportunities. This work was developed by a member of the Victoria
 pier pressure group in their role of  Director at local social enterprise Crest Co-operative.
 
 
Llandrillo College.
 
The local college in Rhos on Sea will be key in providing specific skills training (catering etc) to staff and
beneficiaries at ‘Shore Thing’. Furthermore, they are interested in exploring the opportunities that could be
developed to place students for work experience within the activities on the pier.
 
Local social enterprises.
 
Directors at both Crest Co-operative and Conwy Furniture Reclaim have indicated that they are keen to
explore potentials areas for partnership with ‘Shore Thing’. Having these successful social enterprises as
partners will only serve to enhance the potential for success of the project.
 
 
Private sector.
 
RWE npower renewable energy have indicated that they wish to engage in discussions relating to support
for an educational facility being developed on the pier. They are also encouraging ‘Shore Thing’ to engage
in the process of accessing the annual Community Benefits Package currently available as a result of the
Rhyl Flats offshore windfarm, but also a larger £3/4M pa fund for  North Wales communities as a result of
the forthcoming Gwynt y Mor offshore windfarm.. 
 
Both ‘Shore Thing’ and the Council will wish to specify, as part of any tender process for the renovation
of the pier, that the Contractor must employ a number of local unemployed people being supported by local
social enterprise. This is a key priority within the North Wales Coast Regeneration Area and an
arrangement that has proven to be highly successful for the employee and contractor alike in other contracts
developed in the County by local social enterprises, e.g. Housing Associations.
 
It is proposed that some retail space on the pier will be rented to local businesses, again they will be
encouraged to provide opportunities for people being supported by ‘Shore Thing’.
 
 
Potential investors.
 
Although much work has to be done in attracting investment for the refurbishment and initial capacity
building phases of the project, the following are some of the potential sources of support:
 
- Heritage lottery
- The big lottery
- Community benefits package 
- Local Investment Fund
- Welsh Assembly Government
- European Social Fund
- Independent trusts
- Environmental grants bodies
- Local benefactors
- Educational / training grants
- Aggregates levy fund.
 
In addition to these potential investors, ‘Shore Thing’ will endeavour to identify other potential investors
and match funders to ensure that risk to funders is minimised.
 
Summary.
 
The regeneration of Colwyn Bay is long overdue and will spark new optimism though out the community,
the refurbishment and regeneration of the pier as a sustainable vibrant enterprise can contribute enormously
to the improved opportunities for the community.
 
By employing the social enterprise model for the pier, investing income generated in local people who, in
turn, are contributing to both the conservation of local heritage and the local economy, we can ensure that
the pier regains it’s place as a popular local attraction for generations to come.
 
 
Jay Martin
 
Colwyn Bay pier pressure group.
 
January 2011.
 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 17, 2011, 01:43:53 PM
The cost of dismantling and rebuilding the Pier comes in at £6,400,000, mainly in capital expenditure.  The project costs should be broken down as follow:  

- Development costs: £ 300 000
- Capital Work: £ 5 500 000  
- Activity Costs: £ 300 000
- Other  project costs: £ 300 000
25% of the project costs will be match-funded with funds from the Welsh Assembly Governement, CADW and fundraising/sponsorship.  

....and involves the following:

Restoring the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier will require the three stages:  

Stage 1 Dismantling Works
o          Set up secure site area on promenade allowing beach access throughout project
o          Dismantle the Pavilion
o          Carefully dismantle Cast iron handrails, standards and infill’s  
o          Remove timber decking and joists retaining sound for later reuse
o          Carefully dismantle steelwork superstructure of Pier  
o          Dismantle Cast Iron supporting columns  

Stage 2 Refurb / Repairing Works
o          Refurbishment of steelwork superstructure of Pier  
o          Refurbishment of Cast iron Columns  
o          Refurbish piles
o          Refurbishment of existing and manufacture of new Cast Iron infill’s to match
o          Installation of refurbished columns into prepared Cast Iron pile sockets
o          Re-erection of Pier superstructure up to deck level  
o          Install new timber posts and decking
o          Fix refurbished / new handrails, standards and install Cast Iron infill’s
o          Construct new timber edge detail  
o          Redecoration

Stage 3 Renovating Works
o          Construction of a new Pavilion and ancillary structures, including entrance kiosks and bandstand

All information courtesy of the FOI Act
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 18, 2011, 09:02:21 PM
So...has any progress been anounced then?

Or is it all still in a state of limbo?

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 18, 2011, 09:20:38 PM
Imminent announcement, mate.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 18, 2011, 11:04:17 PM
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Imminent announcement, mate.

 _))* _))* _))*   We both fell for that one didn't we?    L0L L0L L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 18, 2011, 11:10:46 PM
I've received a couple of emails today that leads me to believe that imminent actually means imminent this time....  ;)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 18, 2011, 11:29:10 PM
In that case...knowledge is indeed power!   Y^^Y
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 19, 2011, 11:31:25 AM
There was a meeting yesterday with the WAG Minister for Regeneration, Colwyn Bay Pier Pressure Group and AM Darren Millar to discuss the future of the Victoria Pier.
http://twitter.com/DarrenMillarAM/status/48709505080504320 (http://twitter.com/DarrenMillarAM/status/48709505080504320)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on March 20, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Hello,

I beleive the vist went rather well and the minister is behind the regeneration of the pier.   :D
There has been quite a lot going on behind the scenes recently.
 
This link shows a few cards on the table...    :-\

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/colwyn_bay_pier_task_finish_grou_2#outgoing-117146 (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/colwyn_bay_pier_task_finish_grou_2#outgoing-117146)

SCMP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 20, 2011, 11:13:04 PM
Steve Hunt's address is STILL The Pier?    I'm confused...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: brumbob on March 20, 2011, 11:51:05 PM
Interesting PDFs
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on March 26, 2011, 08:25:11 PM
I'm going to cheer up Mr David Roberts of this forum----and all the other supporters of Colwyn Bays Pier. Never mind that is the organisation, is it called the Colwyn Civic Trust, I'm not sure. Anyway this week they said "Pull it down."    BUT----BUT:  As I sat in my onebed humble flat I was studying the top end of the property market i.e. the half a million bracket. What shall I buy in Colwyn Bay? (No harm in dreaming!!!). Then, I see a nice brand new property, around a half million. Amongst all its many attractions I read  "Close to the Victoria Pier, Eirias Park and the Mountain Zoo."  There you are.  Just imagine how much more they could make out of it if it had a spot of paint. Mike  P.S. If anyone is interested I can tell you what paper it was in, on which page, and the Estate Agent concerned. But, obviously, I'm not going to state this on a public forum, its going to have to be by private message, email etc.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 26, 2011, 08:31:37 PM
It was in the Daily Post and it was an advert for the 'Manderley' development in Upper Colwyn Bay, by Ben Bailey Homes. I saw it too, Mike, and laughed.  $yes$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on March 26, 2011, 08:42:00 PM
It took six minutes for you to reply. What took you so long? Anyway, nice to know I read the same papers as the "top brass" in the forum!!! (and, of course, you were exactly right, )
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 01, 2011, 09:29:12 AM
Angry reaction to call for Colwyn Bay pier demolition
Mar 31 2011 by Richard Evans, North Wales Weekly News

COLWYN Bay Civic Society has been criticised for calling for the town’s pier to be demolished. Last week the historical group labelled the pier a “tawdry apparition from the past” and argued that any attempt to restore it would be a waste of time and money.

Historian Graham Roberts is president of the Civic Society and has this week been criticised by the National Piers Society. Mr Roberts , who has had several books published on his home town, claimed the pier was detrimental to the regeneration effort and that spending millions on its restoration was not justifiable.

Chris Wyatt from the National Piers Society claimed Mr Roberts’ comments were galling.
“I found the whole tone of Graham Roberts’ statements completely at odds with the philosophy of the Civic Society movement,” he said.
“His statements – such as ‘You can’t live on nostalgia’ – might be expected from someone with no interest in Wales’ heritage, but coming from the president of a civic society, the majority of whose members we are led to believe are of a similar opinion regarding the pier, leads one to question whether they might be more comfortable in a different organisation altogether.” He added: “This must be particularly galling for the people of Colwyn Bay who have been fighting very hard to rescue their pier in the face of the extremely difficult situation surrounding its ownership. To suggest young people have no appreciation of the importance of preserving their heritage and are ‘not bothered about an old pier’ underlines how out of touch with reality Mr Roberts is.”

But Mr Roberts stuck by his views. “Those people who feel the pier’s time is up have not been as eager to put their views forward as have those who wish for the pier to remain,” he said. “We are all on the same side, we all want what’s best for Colwyn Bay. I’ve been overwhelmed by those who have agreed with my views.”

The pier is currently a thorn in the side of an effort to regenerate the promenade. Millions of pounds are being invested in the sea front but a stalemate over the pier’s ownership means it remains in the hands of creditors Royce Peeling Green, who are not maintaining the structure.
A council safety report has already deemed the pier unsafe. The survey estimates the cost of demolishing the pier would be around £1.2 million, with total restoration starting at around £5.5 million.

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/03/31/angry-reaction-to-call-for-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-55243-28431875/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/03/31/angry-reaction-to-call-for-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-55243-28431875/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 01, 2011, 09:32:12 AM
My view is that, once again, Colwyn Bay Civic Society have proved themselves to be sadly out of touch with ordinary people in the town.  We saw how many hundreds of people turned out on a cold Winter's night to show their support for the pier - the largest such gathering in Colwyn Bay for decades. I recall someone from the Civic Society was present, who wanted to demolish the pier and build a revolving restaurant on its site - he was drowned out in a chorus of boos...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 06, 2011, 10:54:15 AM
Latest email from Steve Hunt, former owner of the pier. Please note that the opinions expressed are his alone!


Yes, that's right, CCBC are going to DEMOLISH THE PIER (after the fire) by the end of this year.
 
See the latest bit in the Daily Post here confirming the 'top-secret' meeting to buy the pier... of course, the Daily Post's editor is too scared to tell the whole story, despite being offered concrete evidence in the form of the Council's own leaked documents. Free speech? - not in North Wales I'm afraid.
 
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/04/06/conwy-council-could-get-colwyn-bay-pier-back-55578-28467587/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/04/06/conwy-council-could-get-colwyn-bay-pier-back-55578-28467587/)
 
They are meeting in "top secret" tomorrow to force the elected Councillors to agree to buy the pier for £35,000 from RPG (who are as equally corrupt as the Council and have been in on this whole scam from the start).
Even if the Councillors vote against it, acting-council-chief Ken Finch and Iwan Davies will just ignore them push it through anyway - they are the ones that control this undemocratic banana-republic that masquerades as a democratically elected Council. Your votes at election time, and the votes of the Councillor you elect, mean absolutely nothing.
The suspended chief of the Council, Byron Davies, knew too much and had to go. That is why he was set-up for rape, and when that didn't work they suspended him for something else, and so on and so on. Ken Finch & co are determined that Byron Davies will NEVER get back in the Council offices - he had uncovered far too much about the corruption in those four walls and could probably bury the lot of them. That is the power of these sick creatures.
 
The "Pier Pressure" group is a total smoke-screen to keep the public at bay. It was started with good intentions by good people, but was quickly infiltrated by Cllr Brian Cossey, who's agenda (as quoted in numerous council meetings for over a decade) has always been to get rid of the pier for his own perverse pleasure. Anyone who showed support or sympathy towards me or the cause of justice was quickly ousted from "Pier Pressure", and the chair, Penny Davies, brain-washed into believing there is this huge pot of lottery money just waiting for them. That is a complete and utter lie - don't believe what I say, simply phone up the Lottery HQ yourselves and ask them!... Now Cossey is using this as a political move to try and further his way up the greasy pole of local corrupt politics.
 
Once the pier is in the ownership of the Council, or they might give it to Pier Pressure to try and throw the scent off the Council for a few weeks whilst they carry out their next criminal act, there will be a "MYSTERIOUS FIRE" towards summer. Naturally, the Police will have "no clues" as to who started the fire, and blame it on "mindless vandals".
After the fire, the pier will be declared too unsafe and too far gone to save (by the Council appointed surveyors, of course), and so the announcement will be made that "sadly" the pier has to be demolished, but that the Council "did everything they could" to save it - in order to try and save a back-lash from local tax-payers who will hopefully see through their plot.
 
This is all planned out already - if any of you have seen the approved, submitted and funded plans for the vast expanse of grey concrete that is to be the new promenade, you will already know that the pier is NOT there - they have absolutely every intention of getting rid of it at all costs - which you are paying for - before the end of the year, ready for phase 2 of 'concrete ally' to start next spring.
 
RPG, in a meeting with the Council said: "We will make sure Mr Hunt never gets the pier back, whatever happens".  I have witnesses ready to testify to that under oath in Court.
 
Remember dear taxpayer, the £1.2m demolition cost, the hundreds of thousands in legal costs so far, and the multi-million pound compensation claim that will be brought against them in due course is all COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKETS - they are not paying for this - you are. The local part of the Council Tax will go up, and services will go down to pay for it. This personal vendetta by Ken Finch against me is costing YOU money, whilst he managed to get his feet under Byron Davies' desk and put his own wages up.
 
Think I'm just paranoid or lost the plot? - by all means think that - but I guarantee you'll be eating your words by the end of 2011. Print this email out, and as the events above unfold before your eyes over the coming months, you can tick them off one by one.
 
People Power can do good things - if you want to save the pier this is your last chance - please write to our MP expressing your concern and demanding he does something about it:
 
David Jones, MP
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

or email  JONESDI@parliament.uk

Steve Hunt
www.victoriapier.com (http://www.victoriapier.com)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on April 06, 2011, 11:40:22 AM
Maybe it would be an idea to send a copy of the letter to Conwy County Council and use the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to ask if there is any truth in the allegations.  What do you think?

They cannot continue to ignore what is being said, or can they?   I am reminded of Ostriches and sand buckets.   ;)

Their reply would be interesting! D)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: JasonW on April 06, 2011, 04:56:17 PM
I can confirm there was a meeting of the Task and Finish Group on Monday evening.
A recommendation was decided upon (not be everyone, including me). I have concerns on the ongoing implications of any decision made, including ongoing financial implications and hence did not agee with the majourity until further information was presented. But the majority decision will be put forward.
This will now be discussed on Thursday evening at the Communities Overview and Scrutiny committee and then by Cabinet next Tuesday afternoon.
Both this meetings have the subject as Exempt items, so are exempt from public and press.

Unfortunately due to these restrictions I am unable to give any more detail. But all I would say is although the reports will be exempt, when the minutes are issued they will include the recommendation agreed.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 07, 2011, 12:34:38 AM
I have a lot of time for Jason Weyman.
I have an affinity with Colwyn Bay Pier..
But for the life in me, I have no idea what Jason's last posting on this subject means.

All I can see is ...''something is going on, and I can't tell you''

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 07, 2011, 08:07:22 AM
Jason is saying that he is concerned that, by CCBC buying the pier, they could be entering into a massive liability without thinking it through properly first.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on April 07, 2011, 08:08:35 AM
Quote
they could be entering into a massive liability without thinking it through properly first.

CCBC doing something as silly as that?  Perish the thought....  WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on April 07, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
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I have a lot of time for Jason Weyman.
I have an affinity with Colwyn Bay Pier..
But for the life in me, I have no idea what Jason's last posting on this subject means.

All I can see is ...''something is going on, and I can't tell you''

It's the Freemasons at work again Fester!   Like when the Freemasons were playing the Buffs at football.  One chap turned up after 25 minutes and asked the score.  "It's a secret was the reply!"    L0L

Maybe we should have a Freemason's smiley?     Z**
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: JasonW on April 07, 2011, 09:02:08 AM
Fester you are in a right.
Just like issues with Maesdu Bridge. I can tell you that things were going on, but could not give the detail. This is one of the reasons for my "frustrated" profile pic. Should I discuss exempt info I will then be breaking the Code of Conduct and the problems that will bring. (I have had that hassle before i.e. Kinmel Bay, although the Ombudsman agreed I hadn't broken any rules)

There is a lot of people working on trying to find a solution to the Colwyn Bay Pier and I don't understand why this is not made public. Evert effort is being found in to attracting the funding to refurbish the Pier, but the requirements of the funders have stringent conditions.

Following this evening meeting the minutes will have to be prepared in time for Cabinet on Tuesday. The minutes will be public and will give you a steer on what is proposed.

DaveR is very astute.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on April 07, 2011, 09:10:56 AM
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Fester you are in a right.
 Should I discuss exempt info I will then be breaking the Code of Conduct and the problems that will bring.


I wouldn't worry the C o C is being broken almost on a daily basis!    Z**
Just have to vist one or two drinking parlours.    ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 07, 2011, 06:25:32 PM
I was just watching a piece on ITV Wales news about the Pier and there was a clip with Steve Hunt saying that he had lost 'nearly a million pounds' by buying the pier and then losing it via bankruptcy. I'm a little perplexed as to where he gets this figure from? He paid £100,000 for it, so where has the rest of that sum been spent? I remember it in the days before it he bought it, he carried out a fair bit of interior work to the shoreward building but I'd be amazed if he had spent more than another £100,000 in total, as no repairs were carried out to the structure during his period of ownership.  $scratch$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 07, 2011, 11:15:12 PM
Jason,
Pointing out that DaveR is very astute just makes him worse.  Please don't encourage him

More importantly, what you have just said is exactly why I have no time for politicians any more.
(I say anymore, because this has not always been the case)

But now, I have concluded that THEY (no offence but I am including you)  spend MY money and make decisions affecting ME... but the process of discussion is barred to me.  I am not allowed to see or hear what is being said.

That is also true of the Masons. In a different way.  This is another elite group who meet and discuss matters of some importance (I imagine) and once again its all in secret and clandestine.
The difference being, I don't think the Masons are spending MY money.  Or are they? How would I know.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 08, 2011, 08:08:08 AM
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That is also true of the Masons. In a different way.  This is another elite group who meet and discuss matters of some importance (I imagine) and once again its all in secret and clandestine.
I doubt they discuss anything of any importance? It's for a group of middle aged men to puff up their chests, carry around briefcases and gain a respite from their wives. No, I think you attach far too much importance to them...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 08, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
In which case...you ARE indeed very astute!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 08, 2011, 10:34:30 AM
I've just been reading Jason's update on the meeting last night here:
http://jasonweyman.blogspot.com/2011/04/colwyn-bay-pier.html (http://jasonweyman.blogspot.com/2011/04/colwyn-bay-pier.html)

As he says, 'there is no easy solution'. Without having sight of the figures, my own preferred option would be for CCBC to acquire it, then pass it on immediately to the Pier Pressure Group, together with perhaps some financial assistance to get the ball rolling. The Pier Group could then work to renovate/reopen the shoreward building to start bringing some money in, whilst at the same time applying for grants to carry out some of the more expensive work - I am sure WREN, for example, would be more than happy to contribute. The renovation task would, potentially, be a long haul but could also act as a way of bringing the entire community together to work on the project.

The choice is simple - either demolish it for no gain whatsoever to the local community OR invest to refurbish/reopen it as a facility with a range of attractions for locals and visitors alike. That will pull more visitors into Colwyn Bay, create some jobs, pay some taxes and provide some facilities.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 08, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
I don't like the sound of ''demolish'' still being an option under consideration???    :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on April 08, 2011, 10:42:41 AM
Quote
my own preferred option would be for CCBC to acquire it, then pass it on immediately to the Pier Pressure Group,

I agree, totally.  Possibly the most valuable aspect could be the 'community effect':  the drawing together of many people in the Bay and elsewhere who simply want to arrest the apparently irrevocable deterioration that's been taking place for so long, now, and rescue something which has fond memories for a visitors and locals alike.

The only difficulty I foresee is assembling a body that could deal assume responsibility for the pier and thus apply for the grants necessary to renovate it.  Someone is going to have to be prepared to assume the mantle;  it's a big task.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 08, 2011, 10:56:02 AM
The Pier Pressure Group has been up and running for a while; I believe they are ready and willing to take on the task.  ££$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on April 08, 2011, 11:23:56 AM
Who's the chair these days?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 08, 2011, 11:35:34 AM
Penny Davies
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on April 08, 2011, 08:49:35 PM
We could quite easily solve a couple of problems by getting Llandudno RNLI to buy Colwyn Bay Pier and build their new lifeboat station on it. It might then have to be called the Colwyn Bay Lifeboat but I could live with that
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on April 09, 2011, 01:21:09 AM
My mother gets a mention  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 09, 2011, 08:19:29 AM
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My mother gets a mention  $good$
$good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: JasonW on April 09, 2011, 08:20:28 PM
There was an attempt at the meeting on Thursday to open the discusssion to the public. I arrived late (not on the committee so could not vote) and heard the back end of this discussions. Sometime I recognise that commerically sensitive information has  to be restricted, because this will affect any potential negotiations. But there is so much going on that at a good part of the the discussion I believe should be made public.

There is somm good work going on to find a solution and what was eveident on Thursday is that the officers are trying down the detail and working on the solutions on a daily basis.

Applying for grants are never as striaght forward as they first seem. Estimates are that a refurbishment of the pier could be at least £4.5m, this information has been released before. But the conditions of such sums of money mean that some grantors will not give this money to anyone, track record is an importnat element of discussions.

It is frustrating not being able to disclose information, but if I did the chances are I would be reported to the Ombudsman and loose my position as a Councillor. Hence we can not take the risks, but I understand the comments on the thread.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on April 09, 2011, 08:44:08 PM
Surely the Ombudsman has to first of all establish whether there has been a breach of the Code of Conduct? 

If it is in the Public Interest for the information to be disclosed then no breach can be committed.  The question is, whether the information can REASONABLY be considered to be of interest to the general public, or is it more reasonable for other (commercial) interests to be protected.

Only the person or people holding the information can decide on what to do. ?{}?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 15, 2011, 09:51:05 PM
COLWYN Bay’s derelict Victoria Pier could finally be in the hands of the local authority following a vote this week.

At a meeting behind closed doors at Bodlondeb on Tuesday, councillors voted to explore the pier’s acquisition and to attempt to extend the timeframe to do so.

Once in council control, the pier will be put into the hands of the Pier Pressure Group charity, and become eligible for millions of pounds of funding.

Penny Davies is from the Pier Pressure Group and was excited about the prospect of the structure being bought from creditors Royce Peeling Green (RPG).

“We are looking forward to having a clear directive,” she said.

“Everybody is working behind the scenes to be ready for take-off and waiting to see what happens between RPG and the council.”

The three-year time period since a bankruptcy notice was issued expires in July.

Under the Insolvency Act the pier could revert back from RPG to former owner Steve Hunt.

However, under the same Act, a time limit can be extended if there is a sale being agreed.

It is believed the pier would cost Conwy County Council £35,000.

It would cost around £1.2 million to demolish the structure, or at least £5.5 million to make it safe and refurbish it.

Council cabinet members have been sworn to secrecy about discussing the subject which has remained exempt from the ears of the press and public.

One anonymous councillor claimed yesterday there was a row at the meeting about spending £35,000 to buy the pier, as it is a negative asset.

The councillor cited a council-funded safety report which already warns that the pier is literally falling into the sea.

The councillor claims the authority will save money by acting quickly to obtain the pier, rather than waiting until the council is obliged to step in regardless and demolish it, if it was left any longer without maintenance.

“If we go down the route of taking support from the Assembly, and taking the grant funding from the Lottery and the European money available, there is a chance it will cost the council nothing at all,” said the unnamed councillor.

“If the council doesn’t do that, it may have to pay for the work by default and end up footing the bill to demolish it and the bill will then fall on the tax payer.

“There are all sorts of things, such as road crossings, which the council could spend £35,000 on, but you have to take the risk otherwise it could end up costing the tax payer £1.5 million to demolish it, as well as the cost of de-listing the pier from Cadw in the high court.”

RPG’s director Rod Wythenshaw said there had been interest in the pier and confirmed it was possible to extend the timeframe past July if there was a sale agreed.

“As far as that case is concerned we are waiting to take our own advice,” he said.

“But I would have hoped things will have happened one way or another within that timeframe.

“Under the Insolvency Act the property must be dealt with within three years of bankruptcy.

“If nothing happens by the middle of July it does revert back.

“However, if there are any offers for the sale we can take possession proceedings which would increase the time limit.

“There has been an expression of interest but I’m not saying any more.”

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/04/14/council-set-to-take-control-of-colwyn-bay-pier-55243-28515697/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/04/14/council-set-to-take-control-of-colwyn-bay-pier-55243-28515697/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: JasonW on April 16, 2011, 12:18:52 AM
Minutes of Tuesday's Cabinet meeting have been issued:
Personnaly I'm happy with the resolutions. In the previous meetings ,which I had referred to in previous posts, I had been asking for more information and a better understanding of the Business Plan from the proposed community interest company. It is true to say that some local members want us to take the decision straight away and take the risk. But we have to be prudent and understand more before proceeding with any formal course of action.

Minutes:

The Cabinet Member for Communities presented a report in relation to the current position of Colwyn Bay Pier and the options available to the Council.

Members were also presented with the recommendations from the Communities Overview and Scrutiny Committee held on 7 April 2011, who had recommended that Option 3 be approved.

Mr. Jay Martin, a voluntary director of ‘Shore Thing’, the newly established trading company of the Colwyn Bay Pier Pressure Group was invited to give a presentation on his proposals for acquiring the Pier and the plans for the regeneration of the building.

Members considered the options available, and in particular discussed Option 3 and the risks relating to this proposal in detail.

Members agreed that further information was required before a decision could be made and requested that a further report be presented to the next meeting of Cabinet.

It was also suggested that Council could be asked for their views prior to Cabinet making a decision; Members agreed that this option could be explored once a further report had been produced.


RESOLVED-

(a)   That Officers explore further the possibility of Conwy County Borough Council facilitating the acquisition of Colwyn Bay Pier by a 3rd Party.

 (b)  That Officers explore all options to extend the current time constraints, in order that the Council can make a considered decision in light of a Business Plan that will be available in due course.

(c)   That a further report be presented to the next meeting of Cabinet detailing the issues above.


(Note:  Mr Martin was in attendance for this item, but left the meeting after his presentation).


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 16, 2011, 08:17:03 AM
Whilst I understand the need for caution, the real concern for me would be that, if CCBC doesnt take action now, then it could be lumbered with the £1.2m+ cost of demolition in a couple of years anyway.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on April 16, 2011, 08:49:23 PM
Just to lighten the subject a bit, yesterday tea time'ish I drove past the pier entrance and there were three lads with guitars apparently playing like buskers with no one else around unless they were stood under the railway bridge (I was driving Rhos to O.C. direction so I was looking left).  No sign of any cameras or Youtube tackle.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 10:49:58 AM
'Key decision' needed over Colwyn Bay's Victoria pier

The future of a Grade II-listed Victorian pier which has been closed for nearly three years could become clearer later.

A private meeting of Conwy council will discuss Colwyn Bay pier, as its condition continues to deteriorate.

The council does not own the pier, but a senior officer says some key decisions need to be made urgently.

It was closed in 2008 when its owner was made bankrupt in a dispute with the council over business rates.

Council acting chief executive Ken Finch said the situation was "at the point at which some key decisions need to be made".

On Tuesday, the council's cabinet committee will discuss the future of the pier:

http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=171&MId=2671&Ver=4 (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=171&MId=2671&Ver=4)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13505753 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13505753)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 02:24:21 PM
Steve Hunt's latest email:

"A quick update on the latest news from Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay...
 
Surprise surprise, the Council has this morning gone back on everything they said at the recent meeting between us which was hosted by David Jones, MP, and are still trying to do some back-hand deal with RPG (the Insolvency Practitioners who are supposed to be looking after the pier), to buy the pier and 'cut me out' altogether. Not a terribly wise move - but hey, it is YOUR money they are wasting to desperately try and cover up their tangled web of crimes and corruption, not their own.
 
Naturally any attempt to buy the pier will be challenged, and in any case will be challenged from a financial aspect in a future audit of the Councils financial affairs. You may like to know the 2009 accounts of the Council are STILL under investigation by KPMG, what has been uncovered is now so serious that external lawyers have been called in by KPMG to give legal advice on the criminal issues surrounding the pier.
 
To date KPMG's bill to the local taxpayer in investigating what I have uncovered is £25,000 - and there is a way to go yet, and then a further 2 full years of accounts (at least) to be investigated in due course. Add to this the £42,500 of easily identifiable costs they have spent fighting me (the true cost is believed to be several times this amount - they illegally refuse to release details of what they have really spent so far).
 
Meanwhile a certain Colwyn Bay / Conwy County Councillor has got himself into a rather sticky situation with his latest actions in connection with the pier - can't say much more about that at the moment as it will shortly become a police matter - but watch this space, as they say.
 
Further documents illustrating the collusion between officers of CCBC and RPG will be placed into the public domain shortly."
 
Regards,
Steve Hunt
www.victoriapier.com (http://www.victoriapier.com)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
I'm told that CCBC have decided to buy Colwyn Bay Pier - perhaps Jason will have some more info for us?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 24, 2011, 06:50:52 PM
According to BBC News, that is true... but they have to go through a process of seeking finding (from the Assembly?) to secure substantial finance for the purchase...AND £3.6m for a ''basic'' renovation.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 07:00:31 PM
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process of seeking finding (from the Assembly?) to secure substantial finance for the purchase


How so? The Consultants Report said it was worth...precisely nothing. Our own calculations indicated the same. A nominal amount paid to the Receivers should be all that is required.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on May 24, 2011, 07:32:07 PM
It's a farce............again.  Call me cynical but it's the same old story, make a guy bankrupt then buy up what could be a lucrative development.  I mean when its up and running it will turn over cash.  If the council weren't interested to begin with they could have offered the lad some help in the first place.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 07:45:22 PM
The Pier was a private business. It's not the Council's job to prop up failing businesses. Why would you buy a rotting pier in the first place if you didn't have the money to restore it properly? The feeling at the two public meetings I attended was that the owner was a major part of the problem, not the solution.

I don't think it will ever be lucrative - at best, a charity running it should be able to cover maintenance costs. It's been on the market for about 2 years and no-one was interested in buying it. It would have been snapped up if it made any money at all.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on May 24, 2011, 08:01:17 PM
Would any one else apart from the Council be able to obtain money from the Assembly then?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2011, 08:33:10 PM
Yes, any non profit group can apply for funding. I think the role of the Council is to resolve the deadlock over ownership and then hand it straight over to the Pier Pressure Group for them to apply for grants etc from various organisations:

"Once in council control, the pier will be put into the hands of the Pier Pressure Group charity, and become eligible for millions of pounds of funding.

Penny Davies is from the Pier Pressure Group and was excited about the prospect of the structure being bought from creditors Royce Peeling Green (RPG).

“We are looking forward to having a clear directive,” she said."


The Group's Plan for the Pier is here:
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=139.msg20376#msg20376 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=139.msg20376#msg20376)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 25, 2011, 09:01:36 AM
"Yesterday Conwy’s cabinet met behind closed doors and opted to begin talks with Salford-based RPG to buy the pier.

If successful, Conwy would then seek full council backing to get Welsh Assembly help to acquire the freehold. The cost is understood to be around £35,000.

Conwy also voted to seek full council backing to open talks with Shore Thing pressure group so it could look after the pier under a lease. The council and Shore Thing would then apply for grants for restoration work."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/05/25/council-moves-to-take-over-colwyn-bay-pier-55578-28758356/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/05/25/council-moves-to-take-over-colwyn-bay-pier-55578-28758356/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 25, 2011, 09:41:20 AM
In a nutshell then, the ownership can change hands very easily and cheaply. (and so it should)

But, that then only starts a process of seeking funding to begin a restoration.

Hmmm, I reckon that a lot of time will pass before any tangible improvements will be seen.

I can't see anything ''imminent'' happening, as Dave and I were personally assured it would be, in October LAST year!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Llechwedd on May 25, 2011, 11:55:15 AM
BBC News last night said it would take four million to make it right.  So pull it down if the council can't afford essential serviceds it certainly can't afford this
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on May 25, 2011, 12:35:49 PM
It is of course ironic that millions of pounds are at this moment being spent just yards to the East of the pier. Pity a magic wand could not be waved and a few million move westwards
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 25, 2011, 12:40:35 PM
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BBC News last night said it would take four million to make it right.  So pull it down if the council can't afford essential serviceds it certainly can't afford this
The Council isn't paying for the repairs, it would be up to the Pier Group to apply for funding. But, if action isn't taken, CCBC would be liable for the cost of demolition, which is £1m+.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on May 28, 2011, 07:04:41 PM
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Steve Hunt's latest email:

"A quick update on the latest news from Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay...
 
Surprise surprise, the Council has this morning gone back on everything they said at the recent meeting between us which was hosted by David Jones, MP, and are still trying to do some back-hand deal with RPG (the Insolvency Practitioners who are supposed to be looking after the pier), to buy the pier and 'cut me out' altogether. Not a terribly wise move - but hey, it is YOUR money they are wasting to desperately try and cover up their tangled web of crimes and corruption, not their own.
 

I love this I really do! The council had a meeting with him at the end of April do discuss options. One option involving Steve Hunt was for RPG to give the pier back to him as a 'silent owner' or something and the council would lease it off him somehow... a few days later he goes to the papers and says he is going to sue the council for £2million or whatever it was! Me thinks thats why the council are unwilling to work with him now!

SCMP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 28, 2011, 07:52:06 PM
I noticed today that CCBC have erected fencing on the beach at either side of the Pier, along with notices warning people to keep out. The walkway/cycle track that passes under the pier building has also been closed off. CCBC staff were ordering anyone who walked by the pier to leave the area.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2703/5768574273_9d89217034_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5768574273/)
Danger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5768574273/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on May 28, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
Are they paying staff to stand there 24 hours a day?  ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 28, 2011, 08:16:54 PM
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Are they paying staff to stand there 24 hours a day?  ???
I think its just the Seaboard Inspector who keeps an eye on the Waterskiers, so probably only daylight hours. I walked right under the end of the pier to take some photos and they didn't say anything to me but they stopped two lads on the beach nearer the Prom and told them to leave.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 28, 2011, 10:38:24 PM
Sorry to be a pessimist, but I expect that the pier will now be like this OR WORSE, for some YEARS to come...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 08:13:32 AM
Email received from Steve Hunt today:

Good Morning!
 
Today is the second day of my HUNGER STRIKE for Justice at Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay.
 
Hopefully there will be some coverage today on BBC Wales TV and Radio news, as well as the Daily Post newspaper, and possibly a national paper or two might have picked up the story too.
 
My Hunger Strike is calling on David Jones, MP & Minister for Wales, to launch a full inquiry into the disgusting and illegal way CCBC have treated me over the past few years, to bring those Council Officers who have committed offences to justice, and in particular to discover why all those bodies which are supposed to regulate, investigate and the control the Local Authority, flatly refuse to do so.
Until such an OPEN, TRANSPARENT investigation is launched, then I will continue my Hunger Strike in order to draw attention to this utterly appalling case of corruption, and the personal vendetta against me, by certain officers of CCBC.
Just to refresh you memory, In July 2008, officers of Conwy County Borough Council successfully bankrupted me after they:
* falsified Council Tax / Business Rates accounts
* accused me of owing money to CCBC which they absolutely knew I did not
* refused to correct knowingly falsified and incorrect accounts
* fraudulently hid money that CCBC in fact owed ME in overpaid Council Tax
* committed Perjury by submitting knowingly false statements to the Court
* instructed their external solicitors (DWF of Manchester) indirectly to lie to the Judge in Court
* illegally refused access to any documents/files/records pre-litigation - resulting in a completely unfair and unjust Court trial, which the Court should never have allowed to continue in any case
All sounds too far-fetched to be true I know, that is half the problem in getting it investigated, but all of the above points are PROVEN in the councils own documents, published on the pier website.
 
Please follow my progress and spread the word on twitter - you can get instant updates to your mobile phone as things happen:  www.twitter.com/victoriapier (http://www.twitter.com/victoriapier)
 
Regards
 
Steve Hunt
www.victoriapier.com (http://www.victoriapier.com)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 07, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
Psychiatric assessment required methinks! ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 07, 2011, 11:16:30 AM

I actually feel for the guy without doubt I think the majority of his gripes and allegations will turn out to be true.  I think a hunger strike is a step too far though if I'm honest.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 11:36:19 AM
I found him a very obstinate character who was only interested in doing things his own way and would not listen to other people. If you have pots of cash, then that attitude is fine but when you don't...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 07, 2011, 11:40:41 AM
I don't know the guy Dave, I am however inclined to believe his allegations of corruption whatever his personal demeanor.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 01:08:07 PM
People always like to indulge in conspiracy theories because they are more exciting than the usually mundane truth.

You could ask yourself why, following his scenario, CCBC would want to gain control of a derelict pier that will be nothing but a drain on the taxpayers? There have been several times over recent years that CCBC could have bought it legitimately at a knock down price if they had wanted it. Both Parker Leisure Holdings and Mike Paxman had it up for sale for long periods of time without anyone being interested. Mr Hunt bought it without having the money to do anything with it - a surefire recipe for disaster!

I'm sure his manner has upset many staff within CCBC and they subsequently went out of their way not to be helpful to him but I doubt there's more to it than that.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 07, 2011, 02:07:46 PM
The truth will come out......................let's wait and see what happens. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 07, 2011, 02:39:54 PM
Certainly his "story" has been fairly consistant throughout, although I must confess that I have not followed it that closely, and that generally indicates some element of truth.   He has not introduced any other matters apart from those he originally cited.

What DaveR says is certainly plausible, but if such were the case, why does Hunt carry on with his crusade knowing that in the end he will not succeed?   He is either on a hiding to nothing or living in the vain hope of raking in a tidy sum by way of compensation.   Either way I'm not too interested.   ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 06:12:57 PM
Council Meeting tomorrow to decide whether or not to buy Colwyn Bay Pier from the Receivers.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 07, 2011, 06:46:59 PM
Hunger Strike eh?   Can't see anyone from CCBC rushing t force feed him

He'll be in McDonalds as soon as he gets hungry.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on June 07, 2011, 07:50:51 PM
I must admit the stuff in the paper about the hungar strike made me giggle it has been three years....!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
How long will his hunger strike last, I wonder? You can keep up with progress here:
http://twitter.com/#!/victoriapier (http://twitter.com/#!/victoriapier)

I might send Fester round with some bacon butties to waft under his window....  ;D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 07, 2011, 08:07:19 PM
I've been attempting to air brush David Jones out.  L0L

Colwyn Bay MP David Jones said there had been "insufficient engagement" with Mr Hunt regarding the pier's future, adding that he had been "airbrushed out of the process".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13679601 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13679601)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2011, 08:16:52 PM
Hmm....I think he meant that Steve Hunt had been airbrushed out of the process....  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 07, 2011, 08:24:28 PM
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Hmm....I think he meant that Steve Hunt had been airbrushed out of the process....  :laugh:

 $booboo$ Sorry Dave, been working on another.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 07, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
What's Steve going to do with his time?

This may keep him occupied:

http://www.funny-games.biz/hungerstrike.html (http://www.funny-games.biz/hungerstrike.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on June 07, 2011, 09:14:18 PM
I met Steve Hunt once, about 3 years ago. He was very upset about a grievance over his rates, and he really bent my ear about it. But, if everybody who has a grievance about their rates went on hunger strike,  Asda food would go bust
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 07, 2011, 11:31:16 PM
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I met Steve Hunt once, about 3 years ago. He was very upset about a grievance over his rates, and he really bent my ear about it. But, if everybody who has a grievance about their rates went on hunger strike,  Asda food would go bust

 L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on June 08, 2011, 12:15:42 PM
Well ITV have just pulled up out side the pier with Steve hunt there, he's got the front door open as well.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2011, 12:45:25 PM
How long before he realises he's wasting his time?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2011, 06:18:43 PM
Conwy Council have voted to acquire Colwyn Bay Pier.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 08, 2011, 06:20:24 PM
So we all own a bit of it now!   I hope that don't start doing a bit of asset stripping!    L0L   L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 08, 2011, 08:30:29 PM
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Well ITV have just pulled up out side the pier with Steve hunt there, he's got the front door open as well.

I'm surprised he has the strength to open the door.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2011, 08:32:12 PM
Steve Hunt's Tweets  have started to get a little more ominous:

So the corrupt Conwy Council have decided they want to buy the pier... No surprises there then...
If they think they can just do that, boy are they in for a surprise! ... I'm not going anywhere :o)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 08, 2011, 08:45:57 PM
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Steve Hunt's Tweets  have started to get a little more ominous:

So the corrupt Conwy Council have decided they want to buy the pier... No surprises there then...
If they think they can just do that, boy are they in for a surprise! ... I'm not going anywhere :o)


So that's why the door was open, he's probably squatting inside.

Hope he doesn't do a "Bobby Sands" and smears excrement all over the walls.  :-X
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2011, 08:50:14 PM
I'd better tell the Pier Group to order some extra Dettol...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 08, 2011, 08:58:27 PM
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I'd better tell the Pier Group to order some extra Dettol...

Watch this space.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 08, 2011, 09:08:18 PM
I too have decided to go on Hunger Strike... starting the moment I finish this KFC mega-bucket.  (burp)

I shall only end this protest when my demands are met.
Those being, Give ME sole control of Colwyn Bay Pier.   Thats it really.
Then I'll think about what to do with it.

Watch this space.



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 08, 2011, 09:10:08 PM
 L0L L0L L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 08, 2011, 09:16:31 PM
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I too have decided to go on Hunger Strike...

Think about what you're saying man! You'll be a virtual skeleton..........................................in about 5 years.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 08, 2011, 09:18:28 PM
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I too have decided to go on Hunger Strike...

Think about what you're saying man! You'll be a virtual skeleton..........................................in about 5 years.  :laugh:
L0L _))* you are mean Dave snigger snigger
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 08, 2011, 09:31:40 PM
Hang on. don't all worry too much just yet...... I'll start after this Aero ice-cream that was on offer .... its irresistible...

Steve Hunt doesn't know what he's missing...

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2011, 12:30:26 AM
Progress update.

I've let myself down tonight as I nodded off, and woke up and saw this Toblerone looking back at me.
Well, who could resist?  Its all gone now, so that problem appears to be resolved.

Does wafer thin ham count as food by the way?  

I shall start my hunger strike again in the morning... right after my Wetherspoons breakfast.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 09, 2011, 01:47:25 AM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 09, 2011, 11:07:20 AM
Wafer thin ham.....  _))* _))* your ace Fester  :-*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on June 09, 2011, 12:02:39 PM
The very mention of "wafer thin ham" always makes me  :laugh:. It reminds me of the episode of the Royle family when Anthony brings his vegetarian girlfriend home. His grandma suggests that she will be okay with some "wafer thin Ham! :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2011, 09:04:55 PM
Steve Hunt's latest Twitter revelation:

"on 10th May 2011, £577.09 was stolen from the "Friends of the Pier" bank account. Will be reported to Police in morning."
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on June 09, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
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Steve Hunt's latest Twitter revelation:

"on 10th May 2011, £577.09 was stolen from the "Friends of the Pier" bank account. Will be reported to Police in morning."

Hmmm? Steve isn't a member of them so I wonder what his point is?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2011, 09:28:04 PM
No doubt there will be a long winded conspiracy involving 'council officers', 'brian cossey', 'uncle tom cobleigh' and various other random people at the root of it all....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 09, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Don't forget the Freemasons, RAOB, Rotary, Round Table, Forresters, and any other of the 2000 odd "Friendly" societies!      L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2011, 09:39:16 PM
...and don't forget the essential ingredient of a local newsagent.  ;)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2011, 10:20:18 PM
My hunger strike went very well today (after my Wetherspoons breakfast)

I even went to the gym tonight too, to accelerate the weight loss process. All designed to put additional pressure on CCBC.
I saw Born to Run there.

However, on the way home I noticed that Fat Cat's were offering a free cocktail with the 2 course meal deal, so of course it would have been rude not to support this worthy local business.   Chicken Caesar salad and a steak can't be THAT much of a problem surely?

All is back on track now, and if I can ignore this giant bag of Maltesers, then once again I shall go to bed hungry.

That Pier will be mine in no time....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 09, 2011, 10:26:16 PM
Fester where's your house, I have no problem relieving you of temptation I love Malteasers...........only trying to help Matey  :roll:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2011, 10:28:19 PM
Once I've opened a box of Maltesers, I have to finish them - there is no other option.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 09, 2011, 10:35:41 PM
 Does anyone else think that Steve Hunt's ramblings and accusations are getting out of hand and it's only a matter of time before he does something really stupid. Methinks the police should bring him in for questioning and if necessary complete a psychiatric assessment.  $walesflag$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2011, 10:38:01 PM
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Once I've opened a box of Maltesers, I have to finish them - there is no other option.  :laugh:

Indeed !!  The most pointless invention EVER, is that sticky strip with which you are supposed to RE-SEAL a bag of maltesers (or revels, or buttons etc) ...  it can never be used,  once the bag is open, they are gone!

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 09, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
I think he's bordering on a nervous breakdown if I'm honest but then how would you feel if you lost everything including your dream through what you truly believe to be an injustice.  I know how I felt and I have to say it was much the same as him.  :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2011, 10:40:57 PM
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Does anyone else think that Steve Hunt's ramblings and accusations are getting out of hand and it's only a matter of time before he does something really stupid.
I said exactly that to Fester yesterday.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 09, 2011, 10:42:06 PM
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Once I've opened a box of Maltesers, I have to finish them - there is no other option.  :laugh:

Indeed !!  The most pointless invention EVER, is that sticky strip with which you are supposed to RE-SEAL a bag of maltesers (or revels, or buttons etc) ...  it can never be used,  once the bag is open, they are gone!


That's only there so you don't feel a greedy mareman when buying them.  They have family packs now...........as if your going to share them  8)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2011, 10:43:37 PM
You did indeed, old chap,   and it seems that your fears may be well founded.

Am empty stomach can drive people to do desperate things...   Like eating a full bag (a family bag) of Maltesers!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 09, 2011, 10:49:40 PM
You selfish man  :-[
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 09, 2011, 10:51:52 PM
Sorry... but when you are on hunger strike, you have to take all you can get...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on June 10, 2011, 12:30:27 AM
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Does anyone else think that Steve Hunt's ramblings and accusations are getting out of hand and it's only a matter of time before he does something really stupid. Methinks the police should bring him in for questioning and if necessary complete a psychiatric assessment.  $walesflag$

Would that be in reference to Steve's belief there will be a fire before 2012? lol  :twoface:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on June 10, 2011, 12:36:04 AM
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My hunger strike went very well today (after my Wetherspoons breakfast)

I even went to the gym tonight too, to accelerate the weight loss process. All designed to put additional pressure on CCBC.
I saw Born to Run there.

However, on the way home I noticed that Fat Cat's were offering a free cocktail with the 2 course meal deal, so of course it would have been rude not to support this worthy local business.   Chicken Caesar salad and a steak can't be THAT much of a problem surely?

All is back on track now, and if I can ignore this giant bag of Maltesers, then once again I shall go to bed hungry.

That Pier will be mine in no time....

I admire you for your hunger strike... your doing rather well and for something you believe in... food  ;D If you get the pier before Steve you have to realise YOU will be part of the conspiracy!  :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 10, 2011, 08:26:31 AM
FESTER'S HUNGER STRIKE - DAY 3

It's going to be tough today, because I had to get up early and give my Mrs a lift to the railway station.
This means I have even longer to cope with these hunger pangs.
The aroma wafting from Molly's Cafe by the station was a real tempation.

Dave R pointed out to me recently that Wetherspoon's bacon sandwiches are a little small, so I don't think it will count if I nip in for one of those later this morning. Surely no one would begrudge me that?
Other than that, I'll be restricted mainly to sandwiches today.

I'm sure you will be relieved to hear, that (just like Steve Hunt) I am managing to DRINK plenty.   Z**

So, I would like to extend my thanks to Wetherspoons and Fat Cats who are supporting me in this worthy cause.
 


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2011, 03:34:29 PM
Went past Colwyn Bay Pier earlier today, no sign of Steve Hunt:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/5820768329_09fa6ef2bc_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5820768329/)
What Next? (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5820768329/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 11, 2011, 03:39:46 PM
Perhaps he's slipped through the gaps in the wooden planking from losing so much weight?

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2011, 04:06:51 PM
I was hoping to catch him nibbling a crafty KitKat  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 11, 2011, 04:33:22 PM
DaveR said:  Went past Colwyn Bay Pier earlier today, no sign of Steve Hunt:

I went past this afternoon and thought I saw him hiding behind a lamp-post.    :D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 11, 2011, 04:50:11 PM
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DaveR said:  Went past Colwyn Bay Pier earlier today, no sign of Steve Hunt:

I went past this afternoon and thought I saw him hiding behind a lamp-post.    :D

 :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 11, 2011, 04:51:19 PM
If he wears a red crash helmet, he will look like a matchstick before long. :D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 11, 2011, 06:43:52 PM
You are all so obsessed by Mr Hunt, that you seem to have forgotten about my hunger strike...

My suffering shall not be in vain... you'll all be sorry when I'm gone!   :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 11, 2011, 06:51:42 PM
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You are all so obsessed by Mr Hunt, that you seem to have forgotten about my hunger strike...

My suffering shall not be in vain... you'll all be sorry when I'm gone!   :laugh:

Are you still going to the gym?  :laugh:

http://www.stayfitbug.com/the-fitness-bug/hard-gainer-weightlifting-workout-routine/ (http://www.stayfitbug.com/the-fitness-bug/hard-gainer-weightlifting-workout-routine/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 11, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
Ha ha... yes... you will actually find me there tomorrow aftenoon...well, you wont because you are thousands of miles away!

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 11, 2011, 07:02:01 PM
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Ha ha... yes... you will actually find me there tomorrow aftenoon...well, you wont because you are thousands of miles away!


I have "spotters" all around town.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on June 11, 2011, 11:23:46 PM
Quote Dave R "No sign of Steve Hunt"  So, Hunt a bit more  OOOhhhhh
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 12, 2011, 02:53:47 AM
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Quote Dave R "No sign of Steve Hunt"  So, Hunt a bit more  OOOhhhhh

 ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on June 12, 2011, 10:10:08 AM
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Ha ha... yes... you will actually find me there tomorrow aftenoon...well, you wont because you are thousands of miles away!



I'm heading off there shortly Fester. Might catch you later if I'm still around
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blodyn on June 12, 2011, 10:39:35 PM
Fester, how's the hunger strike going?  I thought about you while I was tucking in to my Sunday dinner.  I hope you're not getting too weak to post a progress report?  Perhaps you should take a little something to keep up your strength - we don't want to lose you! 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 12, 2011, 11:01:10 PM
Thank you for asking Blodyn... I didn't think anyone cared.

Its going very well. Very well indeed.

I recalled Dave R telling me that McDonalds Cheeseburgers were very small, not even a meal...and lacking in nutrition.
So today, after seeing B2R at the gym, I thought I would take Dave's advice.
Knowing full well that McDonalds would not affect my hunger strike. (Dave R knows all things) .. I purchased quite a few of their products.

I came home and slept in the afternoon, I expect that is my body protecting me from starvation.

I shall weigh myself in the morning... and if asked, I shall reveal the results of my 1st week on hunger strike.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blodyn on June 12, 2011, 11:09:55 PM
I'm glad to hear that you're looking after yourself, Fester.  I shall look forward to hearing the result of your weigh-in.  I'm sure you'll be able to keep up the hunger strike for longer if you don't lose too much too quickly. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 13, 2011, 10:39:00 AM
Steve Hunt latest:

A FORMER pier owner on hunger strike is deciding on his next move after meeting his local MP.

Steve Hunt, who owned Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier, met Clwyd West MP David Jones on Friday in Colwyn Bay.

.....

After an hour-long meeting Wales Office Minister Mr Jones said: “I discussed his problem and gave him some advice and he has gone away to consider this advice.” He would not be drawn on details.

Mr Hunt said: “It was a constructive, encouraging meeting. I’ll be reviewing the advice Mr Jones gave me and will consulting with my lawyers. There are a number of options.”

Mr Hunt had fasted for 100 hours at the time of the meeting at 2pm on Friday. He said: “I have only had water and some cups of tea. I feel remarkably well.”


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/06/13/colwyn-bay-pier-hunger-striker-in-talks-55578-28865546/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/06/13/colwyn-bay-pier-hunger-striker-in-talks-55578-28865546/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 13, 2011, 11:38:21 AM
Hopefully the advice was "give up, seek psychiatric help, and seek this help preferably well away from Colwyn Bay and Wales. Get out and stay out!" $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Pendragon on June 13, 2011, 11:53:13 AM
So I take it your not his No1 fan then Poppy  _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 13, 2011, 12:03:24 PM
 Number 2  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 13, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
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Hopefully the advice was "give up, seek psychiatric help, and seek this help preferably well away from Colwyn Bay and Wales. Get out and stay out!" $good$

I think that in some way Mr Hunt has to be admired.  He has stood up against authority, fought for his principles, and all this amongst all the stone throwing and ridicule from all and sundry.  Why a psychiatrist?  I consider with the way he speaks and writes he has his head screwed on the right way.  Why should he get out and stay out, don't you believe in equality of man?   He is just as entitled to speak out as you are, and at least he is fighting his own fight against what appear to be insurmountable odds.

I hope you are never placed in a similar position.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 13, 2011, 06:07:31 PM
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I think that in some way Mr Hunt has to be admired.

You have to be kidding. He took over a pier which had undergone significant renovation work by the previous owners, the Paxmans, and managed to run it into the ground. His problems are all of his own making, unfortunately.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 13, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
Steve Hunt has given up on his hunger strike now:

I am pleased to report that after 100 hours of hunger strike, I had a very constructive meeting with David Jones, local MP and Minister of State for Wales. We reviewed the evidence of Conwy Council's actions against me in recent years, and following the advice of Mr Jones, a plan of action has been formulated. I am now compiling a dossier of evidence, which will be reviewed by Mr Jones, who will assist in directing the right complaints to the right bodies. It is anticipated that a formal complaint, backed by evidence, will be made to North Wales Police by the end of the week. Therefore I have suspended my hunger strike, pending the submission of evidence to the appropriate regulatory bodies.

Let's see if a complaint is actually made to North Wales Police by the end of the week....

 :roll:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 13, 2011, 07:13:16 PM
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I think that in some way Mr Hunt has to be admired.

You have to be kidding. He took over a pier which had undergone significant renovation work by the previous owners, the Paxmans, and managed to run it into the ground. His problems are all of his own making, unfortunately.

No reason for him to be driven out of town. 
Not everyone who goes into business is always successful!   I could name a few local people who have made errors of judgement!   Should they all be castigated?

I had to have a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation 23 years ago caused solely by my inability to continue with the business due to health problems.  I am sorry for those it affected and wish it had never happened but it is easy to look back and take a retrospective view.   

I also await the outcome, and feel that if David Jones MP has assisted with a "plan of action" there must be some substance in Mr Hunt's allegations.

Even today a department of CCBC was severely criticised by an appeals committee for only producing in evidence the "bad" points of their arguement and without any reference to "positive" evidence that they also had available.  The whole barrel of apples is only interested in protecting their own backsides.  $angry$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 13, 2011, 10:42:13 PM
I reckon he just got offered a custard cream with his cuppa tea, and couldn't resist.  Well, who could?

...and my Hunger Strike continues unabated...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 13, 2011, 11:31:54 PM
Here's the reason for my previous comments. These are just 2 of his recent tweets.


@victoriapier: Article in North Wales Pioneer today: (note the comment from Penny Davies - truth about her to be revealed shortly) http://t.co/7AYPe7i (http://t.co/7AYPe7i)”

“@victoriapier: on 10th May 2011, £577.09 was stolen from the "Friends of the Pier" bank account. Will be reported to Police in morning. #colwynbay #pier”
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 13, 2011, 11:33:45 PM
And I think I've mentioned previously who my mother is. So now you may understand my point of view.  $angry$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 13, 2011, 11:46:22 PM
I just think he is entirely misguided and acts totally irrationally.

I don't doubt his sincerity, only his sanity.

I have read avidly his emails and announcements for what seems ages now, and they always promise BIG news, or MAJOR announcements...SOON.

In reality they are never followed up.  Just vague references to police involvement, solicitors and conspiracies.

In view of how skint he is, I doubt that he has a ''legal team'' or even a solicitor of any kind.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 14, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
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And I think I've mentioned previously who my mother is. So now you may understand my point of view.  $angry$

Ah, the Penny has just dropped.  ;D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 14, 2011, 07:11:38 AM
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And I think I've mentioned previously who my mother is. So now you may understand my point of view.  $angry$
Very understandable.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 14, 2011, 03:17:07 PM
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And I think I've mentioned previously who my mother is. So now you may understand my point of view.  $angry$

Just for the record, I don't know who your Mother is, so I do not understand your point of view - or is it really hers?    WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 14, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
I think it's fairly obvious that her Mum is Penny Davies, who has been the subject of some unwarranted unpleasantness from Steve Hunt.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 14, 2011, 05:22:25 PM
Well it is not obvious to me.  I have not been following the Steve Hunt subject that closely and I do not know Penny Davies from Adam.  I am now somewhat more informed on the subject.      $thanx$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 14, 2011, 06:00:26 PM
Her is a he
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 14, 2011, 06:25:18 PM
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I think it's fairly obvious that her Mum is Penny Davies, who has been the subject of some unwarranted unpleasantness from Steve Hunt.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And I think I've mentioned previously who my mother is. So now you may understand my point of view.  $angry$

Only taking my lead from yourself and DaveR!  Sorry. I got it wrong.


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 14, 2011, 08:08:29 PM
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Her is a he

I had gathered that. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 14, 2011, 08:10:16 PM
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Well it is not obvious to me.

It was to me and I'm not an ex Policeman.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 15, 2011, 12:36:47 AM
I am mightily confused????   Who is a HE?  Poppy or Penny??   Jeezas..

I am on Hunger Strike, and my faculties are obvioulsy not as sharp as they should be.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 15, 2011, 06:03:23 AM
Me a he $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 15, 2011, 09:08:57 AM
The bizarre world of online media...!

Nemesis is a bird, and Poppy is a bloke........  well, who knew!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on June 15, 2011, 09:18:44 AM
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The bizarre world of online media...!

Nemesis is a bird, and Poppy is a bloke........  well, who knew!!

Now I'm puzzled  :o  L0L  in our house Poppy is a bird!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blodyn on June 15, 2011, 10:14:33 AM
Fester, I hope your faculties are not too clouded to give us the eagerly awaited result of your weigh-in?  This hunger strike is a serious business and the world (or at least the Forum) needs to know how you're getting on!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on June 15, 2011, 10:22:32 AM
Technically, of course, if you're on "Hunger Strike", doesn't that mean you're actually eating? When folk strike, I've always thought they stop doing the thing which the strike is about. Perhaps 'Burger strike" might be more appropriate?   


WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 15, 2011, 05:37:37 PM
 *&( analogy.  :)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 16, 2011, 12:18:07 AM
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Fester, I hope your faculties are not too clouded to give us the eagerly awaited result of your weigh-in?  This hunger strike is a serious business and the world (or at least the Forum) needs to know how you're getting on!

Thank you Blodyn...  thanks for your concern.
I shall ignore my detractors, (Ian and Trojan) and stick to the facts.

After my strenuous hunger strike of over a week now, I weighed myself yesterday, and interestingly I had put TWO POUNDS ON!
I can only put this down to my body going into 'starvation mode'
Obviously it is trying desperately to cling on to any shred of energy and nutrition that remains.
Could water retention be another possibility?

I can't attribute this anomaly to Wetherspoons Breakfasts, or McDonalds Burgers, because Dave R told me that they were somewhat unsubstantial.

If I carry on like this, I will be a very healthy 16 stone or suchlike by the time CCBC are forced to cave in and hand over the pier to me.
In light of this grea accomplishment, I shall treat myself to a family sized bag of Maltesers tonight.  (The lighter way to enjoy chocolate apparently)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 16, 2011, 02:20:56 AM
I think we need a new thread here

The long running saga of Fester's hunger strike  L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 16, 2011, 10:19:07 AM
Jun 16 2011
by Richard Evans, North Wales Weekly News

COLWYN Bay’s Victoria Pier could be transformed into a top music centre, wedding venue, restaurant and confectionery factory – following the grade two listed building’s future finally looking to be secure. Conwy’s cabinet voted last week to obtain the freehold from trustees in bankruptcy Royce Peeling Green before leasing it to the Shore Thing social enterprise group to manage.

Once acquired back in public hands, Lottery grant bids and funding pots will target the £6.5 million needed to regenerate the derelict Victorian structure. Made up of a committee of six volunteers, Shore Thing, who have worked closely with the Pier Pressure Group, hope to run the pier as a not for profit company where any money made is reinvested back into the business.

Jay Martin is on the board and was instrumental in setting up the Llandudno Junction-based Crest Co-operative social enterprise, which helps get people back into work. Jay, who also now works for Conwy Furniture Reclaim, a similar scheme, hopes to use his experience to transform the pier into a fully self-financing thriving tourist business – which also helps get people back into work.

“The idea is that the pier will be a not for profit venture where all the money gets poured back in,” said Jay.
“One of the biggest concerns is the on-going maintenance. Every year a chunk of money will be put aside to make sure it is maintained. We are very confident it will make money as a social enterprise.
“The whole concept will be a social enterprise offering volunteer opportunities – that means people socially or economically excluded.
“We are talking of a training restaurant and a cafe as well as a confectionery outlet where everything is made on site as a tourist attraction so you can buy toffee and fudge made on the pier and make it labour intensive so people can see the stuff being made and buy it.”
Jay also hinted the long-neglected pier pavilion could become a top music or wedding venue.
“Once the pavilion is refurbished we are talking of the pier being a wedding venue,” he said.
“There are other piers that do that very successfully offering a unique venue for a wedding.
“There is not a music venue of any decent size in Colwyn Bay. We know there is a vibrant young people’s music scene and we want to actually get involved in that. The whole idea of saving the pier is to turn it into a community based asset and to engage all and give inclusion right across the board. These are just concept ideas being thrown around. Nothing is set in stone at the moment.”
The voluntary directors of Shore Thing are working closely with business development and project consultants, Ian Parkin Associates, and Conwy to prepare a comprehensive business plan around the social enterprise concept. This business plan will be used to inform applications for grant investment.

Jay said the future now looked bright for the pier which had long been written-off by many.
“These are absolutely exciting times. It is still early days but we are moving in the right direction,” he said.
“We are chuffed to bits that the local authority have seen something worth pursuing in this concept and voting in favour to acquire which is good news and this should be good news for the community.”

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/06/16/colwyn-bay-pier-55243-28884135/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/06/16/colwyn-bay-pier-55243-28884135/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blodyn on June 17, 2011, 10:08:36 PM
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After my strenuous hunger strike of over a week now, I weighed myself yesterday, and interestingly I had put TWO POUNDS ON!
I can only put this down to my body going into 'starvation mode'
Obviously it is trying desperately to cling on to any shred of energy and nutrition that remains.
Could water retention be another possibility?

Well done Fester, that's very impressive!

Water retention could be a problem and you really need to look after your health.  However don't worry, alcohol has some diuretic effects so perhaps you should take a little - purely for medicinal purposes!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on June 18, 2011, 07:51:28 AM
Quote
Conwy’s cabinet voted last week to obtain the freehold from trustees in bankruptcy Royce Peeling Green before leasing it to the Shore Thing social enterprise group to manage.

This is good news, of course, but there are a few questions.  One is why only eight cabinet members made the binding decision to buy the pier, and the other - I suppose - is the cost. The risk CCBC is taking is significant and there are more than a few worried councillors. The risk they ran by leaving it as it was was also significant, so there are no easy answers.  It's to be hoped that Shore Thing can bring at least a modicum of business acumen to the project and - ultimately - buy the pier from the council.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 18, 2011, 09:08:52 AM
That news article was incorrect, the decision to buy the Pier was taken at a Full Meeting of Council and the vote was 31 - 1 in favour of buying the Pier.  So maybe those 'worried Councillors' weren't worried enough to either attend or vote against the proposal?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 18, 2011, 07:54:58 PM
Whoever takes the Pier on has a lot of neglect to deal with. Could be quite an exciting challenge in many ways...

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5200/5845666091_93c41f7585_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5845666091/)
Neglect (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5845666091/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 19, 2011, 12:31:42 AM
It will be easy to sort out... get MP Marine, from Cumbria on the job ....

There isn't even much in the way of tidal activity to worry about,  (like there is on Llandudno Pier) they will be able to do 12 hour shifts.


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 19, 2011, 08:35:58 AM
That's a good point. The sand around the entire pier is solid enough that it can be driven on by an access platform, enabling jobs such as painting etc to be carried out without the need for scaffolding.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on June 19, 2011, 04:02:27 PM
In these PC days of Health & Safety at work it probably wouldn't be allowed to do it that way & scaffolding would probably be demanded owing to the height of the pier. Surely before painting they would need to shotblast the old paint/rust etc.. to check the state of the base metal & apply a decent undercoat otherwise it wouldn't last 5 minutes in such wet & salty conditions.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 19, 2011, 05:02:29 PM
They could sand-blast which would save money on clearing up after!    :D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Trojan on June 19, 2011, 05:31:41 PM
Some scaffolding with planking would probably look better than the present pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 19, 2011, 06:40:48 PM
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Some scaffolding with planking would probably look better than the present pier.
_))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 21, 2011, 09:58:44 AM
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In these PC days of Health & Safety at work it probably wouldn't be allowed to do it that way & scaffolding would probably be demanded owing to the height of the pier. Surely before painting they would need to shotblast the old paint/rust etc.. to check the state of the base metal & apply a decent undercoat otherwise it wouldn't last 5 minutes in such wet & salty conditions.

No, an old plank is all you need...  :laugh:

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5167388838_10739311b0_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5167388838/)
Llandudno (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5167388838/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on June 21, 2011, 06:54:36 PM
I stand corrected, which is a hell of a lot safer than standing on that plank. lol
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 21, 2011, 06:59:17 PM
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In these PC days of Health & Safety at work it probably wouldn't be allowed to do it that way & scaffolding would probably be demanded owing to the height of the pier. Surely before painting they would need to shotblast the old paint/rust etc.. to check the state of the base metal & apply a decent undercoat otherwise it wouldn't last 5 minutes in such wet & salty conditions.

No, an old plank is all you need...  :laugh:

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5167388838_10739311b0_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5167388838/)
Llandudno (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/5167388838/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr

Hey!... thats Al,  a good guy ... and he's going to decorate my house ...(eventually)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on June 21, 2011, 07:33:21 PM
if he survives walking the plank!  I notice the rope attached to the very brittle cast ironwork  :o :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on June 22, 2011, 09:43:29 AM
Quote
That news article was incorrect, the decision to buy the Pier was taken at a Full Meeting of Council and the vote was 31 - 1 in favour of buying the Pier.  So maybe those 'worried Councillors' weren't worried enough to either attend or vote against the proposal?

Apparently, due to the time of the meeting - 4.pm - 27 councillors couldn't make it.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 22, 2011, 10:05:56 AM
That's a bit poor, considering they are paid to do the job of Councillor?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on June 22, 2011, 11:22:20 AM
Not sure they're all paid, other than expenses.  I know the cabinet are.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 22, 2011, 11:27:07 AM
Councillors expenses top £1.1m a year, for that I would expect them to attend important meetings at very least!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on June 22, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
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Not sure they're all paid, other than expenses.  I know the cabinet are.

All County Councillors are paid but they get more for being a Chair of a Committee and lots of other enhancements for various duties.   ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on June 22, 2011, 04:16:03 PM
I was in school with one of them. I recall he was one of those kids they put in the gardening class as academically he was a no-hoper.  :D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 11, 2011, 08:57:15 PM
There's a new group called Colwyn Heritage being set up and they've been posting some photos on Twitter - this is a snippet of one, which shows the original pier Pavilion very clearly indeed - what a great building it was:

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(Click on image to see larger version)

Full uncropped image is here:
http://twitpic.com/5jz4qw/full (http://twitpic.com/5jz4qw/full)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 23, 2011, 10:51:05 PM
A legal notice has been sellotaped to the front doors of Colwyn Bay Pier, announcing the date for the hearing to allow the sale to CCBC:

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on July 23, 2011, 11:06:13 PM
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A legal notice has been sellotaped to the front doors of Colwyn Bay Pier, announcing the date for the hearing to allow the sale to CCBC:



Drove past today and guess the Sellotape is helping to keep the place upright. Visit the Bay 2/3 times a year and each time the pier looks shabbier and shabbier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 23, 2011, 11:08:47 PM
If CCBC gain control, then the future should start looking far brighter for the pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on July 23, 2011, 11:49:13 PM
Wasn't the deadline date last week?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 24, 2011, 08:11:47 AM
I believe the deadline can be extended for several months if a sale is in process.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 19, 2011, 05:15:03 PM
Confusion surrounds who now owns the grade II-listed historic pier in Colwyn Bay.

It has been closed since its owner was made bankrupt in July 2008, and it came under the control of a trustee in bankruptcy.

The trustee has now formally given up any interest in the pier because its condition is getting worse.

The pier's former owner, Steve Hunt, said he believed the pier should now come back to him.

Victoria Pier was opened in June 1900, and over the years has hosted performances from artists as diverse as Morecambe and Wise, Harry Secombe and Elvis Costello.

But very little maintenance has been done in the last three years since Mr Hunt was made bankrupt in a dispute with Conwy council over unpaid business rates and council tax.

On 4 August 2011, a panel of the decking broke off and fell onto the promenade.

The council warned in a letter the next day that other sections of the pier needed to be inspected urgently, and that dangerous decking and railings had to be removed.

Solicitors for the trustee in bankruptcy say this means he has disclaimed the pier, a technical term for giving up any interest or control over the structure.
'Potential risk'

In a letter, seen by BBC Wales News, the solicitors say: "It has come to the attention of our client that part of the structure of the pier has collapsed, and fallen on a public thoroughfare.

"Obviously this has raised concerns of the potential risk to the public. The bankruptcy estate is not in funds, and so [there is no money available for] repairs to the pier.

"Our client, as trustee in bankruptcy, is mindful of the fact that he is potentially personally liable in circumstances where, for example, any individual is injured as a result of any structural defect in the pier.

"Having undertaken a risk analysis he has taken the decision to disclaim his interest in the pier pursuant to section 315 of the Insolvency Act 1986."

Mr Hunt said the trustees' solicitors had told him that the pier would now pass to the UK government's Treasury solicitor under a system known as bona vacantia.

He said: "The ownership needs to be resolved urgently. I'm talking to my solicitors to work out the legal position.

"I'd be happy to have the pier back because everyone just wants to see it restored. There's money potentially available in grants, but we need to move fast to get it. If it does come back to me I'd be committed to seeing the restoration take place."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-14583358 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-14583358)

I seem to recall this is the same guy who said a couple of months ago it was pointless the Pier Pressure Group applying for grants, as there was no money available?

"...Mr Hunt doubts even that would get public grants, in tough economic times: "It will not happen for the technical reason that the pier would cost more to restore than it will be worth when it’s finished. All public money has to be justified especially in this day and age of cuts. Why don’t the council buy it if they say there’s public money from the National Lottery and Welsh Assembly Government? The simple answer is ‘It’s not there.’ "
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/01/24/colwyn-bay-regeneration-must-include-historic-pier-55578-28043696/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/01/24/colwyn-bay-regeneration-must-include-historic-pier-55578-28043696/)

 ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: JasonW on August 19, 2011, 08:38:02 PM
Spotted a press statement on Oscar from David Jones MP
http://www.davidjones-mp.com/index.php?page=press_releases (http://www.davidjones-mp.com/index.php?page=press_releases)
http://thoughtsofoscar.blogspot.com/2011/08/are-we-in-brown-stuff.html (http://thoughtsofoscar.blogspot.com/2011/08/are-we-in-brown-stuff.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 20, 2011, 10:46:43 AM
The former owner, Steve Hunt, imagines that he is going to recoup the £1,000,000 that he says he has spent on the pier.  :laugh:

"Mr Hunt hopes to sell or lease the pier to Conwy CB Council. It could then lease it to a charity, which could apply for Lottery cash. Mr Hunt added: “I have invested £1m in the pier. “I aim to get that back, not necessarily in one lump. I ain’t giving up.”
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/08/20/colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-s-future-plunged-into-fresh-doubt-55578-29270172/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/08/20/colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-s-future-plunged-into-fresh-doubt-55578-29270172/)

I see he's changed his tune about CCBC now he thinks he can get some money out of them!

Personally, I (sadly) now think it's all over for the Pier. The latest delays and continuing deterioration are the final straw. Time for demolition, I think.  :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 20, 2011, 07:57:35 PM
The walkway under the front section of the Pier has been fenced off now, since a section fell off:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on August 20, 2011, 09:00:41 PM
Dave, you say "sadly."  I'm sad for you. You have tried long and hard to revive this pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on August 20, 2011, 09:28:27 PM
It is about time that some one got hold of an acelylene spanner and chopped its legs off.  The whole caboodle ain't worth saving, it would be cheaper and more economical over time to build a new one.  It will constantly be in need of expensive maintenance.
 
It was nice while it lasted but it now deserves a decent burial, R.I.P.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on August 20, 2011, 10:33:14 PM
I fail to see what has changed in the last 2 months.
Since the initial wave of optimism that CCBC had done a deal, safeguarding the Pier, and then leasing it to the organisation who would set about restoring it.
Steve Hunt was an irritation, but surely can be swept aside as he is now obviously acting in his own spurious interest and not the Pier or the town.
Mr Hunt claims to love the Pier, but if it DOES get demolished, then HE will be directly responsible now.

Steve Hunt, please think well on these words, and if you love Colwyn Bay Pier, step aside.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on September 01, 2011, 01:03:23 PM
Talks underway to resolve future of Colwyn Bay pier - Daily Post North Wales
http://bit.ly/nH0hTm (http://bit.ly/nH0hTm)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 02, 2011, 12:27:59 AM
This has to be viewed as good news Dwsi.
If prominent politicians have moved so swiftly to challenge the stagnation of ownership, then they are obviously intent on getting the restoration plan back on track.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 03, 2011, 08:35:14 PM
There is a guy on Twitter that claims Steve Hunt is trying to get £400,000 from CCBC in order to give them a long lease on the Pier.
https://twitter.com/#!/playasomo

That's crazy if it is true. It's worth absolutely nothing now and was worth little more when it was open.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 04, 2011, 07:10:42 PM
The Pier may need to be classified a Local Nature Reserve at this rate!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on September 04, 2011, 09:02:10 PM
Do you reckon those beer canisters are empty?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 05, 2011, 10:51:40 PM
See this article... no further need to paint the Forth Bridge!  The job is over...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14789036 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14789036)

This will free up some manpower to start on Colwyn Bay Pier .... even Llandudno Pier could do with some touching up!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on September 13, 2011, 12:25:33 AM
Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier may soon be bought - Daily Post North Wales http://bit.ly/n1HHi5 (http://bit.ly/n1HHi5)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 13, 2011, 08:16:31 AM
The saga rolls on and on....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 13, 2011, 10:07:40 AM
Well, at least the issue is being discussed, and possibly progressed.
I feared that it would be ignored now for quite some time to come.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 14, 2011, 09:09:54 AM
COUNCIL chiefs yesterday repeated their wish to buy Colwyn Bay pier but warned its ownership status must be clarified first.

Conwy County Borough Council’s Cabinet met at Bodlondeb to agree to authorise senior officials to take steps to look into the Victoria Pier’s future.

Cllr Glyn Jones told members: “Vacant possession is the key and there should be a sustainable business plan by campaign group) Shore Thing.”

Conwy’s acting corporate director Iwan Davies said that in June the council and the Cabinet were “clear” that the authority would only acquire the pier with vacant possession.

He added: “But equally it was clear that the business plan would not necessarily be completed before we take possession. The business plan is still being worked on. It will be a key component of any funding application we make.”


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/09/14/conwy-council-wants-clarity-before-it-buys-colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-55578-29416861/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/09/14/conwy-council-wants-clarity-before-it-buys-colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-55578-29416861/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 24, 2011, 06:14:57 PM
A sad state of affairs...

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6178003263_1911119253_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/6178003263/)
Dangerous Structure (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/6178003263/#) by davidrobertsphotography (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on October 27, 2011, 02:51:40 PM
Shore Thing and Victoria Pier Pressure Group

Victoria Pier Public Consultation

01-02 November 2011 09.30-17.00

Bay View Shopping centre, Colwyn Bay

This is what the group have been doing whilst the legal battle continues, nothing short of staying positive!

SCMP

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/295752_10150337891917721_649752720_845
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 27, 2011, 05:34:16 PM
I shall try and pop along.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 01, 2011, 02:05:48 PM
Views are being sought on multi-million pound plans for the redevelopment of Colwyn Bay's historic pier.

The consultation is part of the process a not-for-profit group, Shore Thing, must go through prior to submitting a bid for grant aid from the Heritage Lottery Fund. The proposals include a restaurant, revamped pavilion theatre and shops.

However, the issue of who owns Victoria Pier has yet to be resolved. It has been closed since its former owner was made bankrupt in July 2008.

The pier then came under the control of a trustee in bankruptcy, who has since given up any interest in the Grade II-listed landmark. It has now passed to the Crown Estate. People or groups with an interest in acquiring the pier can submit their bid to the Crown Estate's solicitors.

The former owner, Steve Hunt, said in August that he believed the pier should now come back to him.

But Conwy council has formally tabled its interest in the pier and is supporting the proposals by the volunteer directors behind Shore Thing. They are putting the plans on show at the Bay View Centre on Tuesday and Wednesday as well as hosting other events with possible stakeholders.

Chair Jay Martin said the proposals include a panoramic restaurant with views over the bay above a revamped pavilion theatre as well as a glass walkway revealing the pier's architecture.


Other plans include a dozen retail units at the front of the pier for use by other businesses and an education and history centre.

Victoria Pier was opened in June 1900, and over the years has hosted performances from artists as diverse as Morecambe and Wise, Harry Secombe and Elvis Costello.

Mr Martin said now was the time to upgrade the pier as redevelopment of the seafront was under way as part of an £8m coastal defence improvement project.

"This work has given a fresh impetus so now is the time to do it," said Mr Martin.

"The majority want to see something done with the pier."

Shore Thing's business case is being drawn up by tourism and heritage consultants.

They were commissioned after the community enterprise group secured £35,000 in funding from RWE NPower Renewables and Colwyn Bay Town Council which contributed £5,000 towards the total.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-15526893 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-15526893)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on January 16, 2012, 06:58:26 PM
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The Pier may need to be classified a Local Nature Reserve at this rate!

Judging by the number of Starlings roosting there, you may well be right !
Spectacular show this evening, it wasn't until I processed the picture I saw what had encouraged them all to fly !
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a479/DaveWales/SnowBunting316.jpg)
There is a Peregrine Falcon attack in progress !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blodyn on January 16, 2012, 07:28:29 PM
What a fantastic picture, Dave. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on January 16, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
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What a fantastic picture, Dave.
Thanks  !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 21, 2012, 05:01:17 PM
Ye gods, will this man just not disappear?  $angry$

Steven Hunt's court bid to own Colwyn Bay Pier again is adjourned


A CLAIM that ownership of Colwyn Bay's derelict pier should be vested again in former owner Steven Hunt, 40, was adjourned yesterday.

Mr Hunt was told by Judge Owen Wheldon Williams at Caernarfon county court that he will need to produce a skeleton legal argument.

A decision may be made then. Conwy County Council wants to buy the pier on the basis that it is now owned by the Crown and hand it to a trust to renovate it using grants.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/01/21/steven-hunt-s-court-bid-to-own-colwyn-bay-pier-again-is-adjourned-55578-30167930/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/01/21/steven-hunt-s-court-bid-to-own-colwyn-bay-pier-again-is-adjourned-55578-30167930/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 21, 2012, 09:32:12 PM
The crucial thing here, to my mind is that Steve Hunt has failed to demonstrate any kind of business plan to renovate it even if he did regain ownership of the pier.

If it was proven that his property was taken from him under false pretences, I could even have some sympathy with Mr Hunt, but only if he was pushing hard to revitalize the structure.

This Pier, in fact ALL piers are national treasures... and must never be left in the private ownership of individuals who do not have the resources to sustain them.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 21, 2012, 09:37:19 PM
That's quite correct. When he had the Pier, Mr Hunt wasted his time building a christmas tree out of scaffolding (still visible at the end of the pier today), whilst the girders underneath rotted away.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 21, 2012, 09:41:04 PM
In that case, that Christmas Tree structure should be 'Exhibit A' in the case against him getting his sticky mitts on it ever again.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 21, 2012, 09:52:40 PM
...and here's a photo of it. Note all the rotten decking in front of it!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on January 22, 2012, 10:07:35 AM
Looks as though he could be a contender for erecting the Christmas Lights next year in Llandudno!    What will Wrex think?      :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 30, 2012, 09:00:59 PM
Time to resurrect Steve Hunt's email from April 2011:

"...Once the pier is in the ownership of the Council, or they might give it to Pier Pressure to try and throw the scent off the Council for a few weeks whilst they carry out their next criminal act, there will be a "MYSTERIOUS FIRE" towards summer. Naturally, the Police will have "no clues" as to who started the fire, and blame it on "mindless vandals".
After the fire, the pier will be declared too unsafe and too far gone to save (by the Council appointed surveyors, of course), and so the announcement will be made that "sadly" the pier has to be demolished,
but that the Council "did everything they could" to save it - in order to try and save a back-lash from local tax-payers who will hopefully see through their plot.
 
This is all planned out already - if any of you have seen the approved, submitted and funded plans for the vast expanse of grey concrete that is to be the new promenade, you will already know that the pier is NOT there - they have absolutely every intention of getting rid of it at all costs - which you are paying for - before the end of the year, ready for phase 2 of 'concrete ally' to start next spring.
 
RPG, in a meeting with the Council said: "We will make sure Mr Hunt never gets the pier back, whatever happens".  I have witnesses ready to testify to that under oath in Court.
 
Remember dear taxpayer, the £1.2m demolition cost, the hundreds of thousands in legal costs so far, and the multi-million pound compensation claim that will be brought against them in due course is all COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKETS - they are not paying for this - you are. The local part of the Council Tax will go up, and services will go down to pay for it. This personal vendetta by Ken Finch against me is costing YOU money, whilst he managed to get his feet under Byron Davies' desk and put his own wages up.

Think I'm just paranoid or lost the plot? - by all means think that - but I guarantee you'll be eating your words by the end of 2011.
Print this email out, and as the events above unfold before your eyes over the coming months, you can tick them off one by one."

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 30, 2012, 11:25:50 PM
He's been strangely quiet of late, Mr Hunt.

He should be suitably embarrassed by what you have posted there, and never again concern himself with Pier business.

 &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake& &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bri Roberts on February 21, 2012, 01:43:47 PM
Here is a report involving David Jones, MP for Colwyn Bay, and a pier he visited yesterday not far from Cardiff Bay.

http://www.walesoffice.gov.uk/2012/02/20/wales-office-minister-visits-%E2%80%98inspiring%E2%80%99-penarth-pavilion-restoration/ (http://www.walesoffice.gov.uk/2012/02/20/wales-office-minister-visits-%E2%80%98inspiring%E2%80%99-penarth-pavilion-restoration/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 21, 2012, 02:23:53 PM
Let's hope the one in his own constituency receives a bit of attention from him.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on February 29, 2012, 09:52:31 PM
I have been told by a gentleman who is actively involved with the pier at this time, that "something retail and/or catering" will definitely be operating at the pier entrance over the Easter bank holiday. According to him this is the first very small step towards the future. Mike
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on February 29, 2012, 10:24:15 PM
How exciting - probably a hot dog van on the forecourt!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 20, 2012, 09:59:00 AM
Pier Pressure - campaigners waiting for result of £4.8m aid bid
Published date: 14 March 2012 | Published by: Iwan Berry
 
 
PIER campaigners face a nail biting 12 days before finding out if their bid to save the landmark is successful.


The future of Colwyn Bay’s dilapidated pier will be decided by the Heritage Lottery Fund which has been asked for £4.8 million towards the cost of restoring the building.


About £10 million is needed to bring the pier back to life with the bid spearheaded by independent group Shore Thing and Conwy County Borough Council.


D-Day is March 26 and, if the funding bid is successful, a 15 month redevelopment of the structure will start.


Late March will also see a court decision made on the ownership of the pier – an issue made all the more crucial by the fact that HLF extended their deadline for the application to allow the issue to be resolved.


Overall funding for the project is estimated to cost about £10million with £2.1 million needed to restore the structure. If the lottery fund bid is successful the way will open for Shore Thing and the county council to cast the net for further funding.


Plans for the pier’s future were unveiled early in November, detailing the planned split of the pier and surrounding area into four distinct zones; promenade, entertainment, learning and commercial.


Jay Martin, Chairman of Shore Thing, described the meeting as “the first key stage” in the development.


Penny Davies, chair of the Pier Pressure Group, said: “We discuss possibilities, but if we hadn’t been optimistic, we wouldn’t be where we are now. But this is a crucial time, and we’re just hoping with the momentum going well everywhere else, we’re on the right rollercoaster.


“I don’t see why not to be optimistic.”


Shore Thing is also looking for applicants with backgrounds in fundraising, construction, volunteer management, finance, public relations and marketing.


Applications, accompanied by a CV, should be sent to The Company Secretary, Colwyn Bay Shore Thing, 15 Hillside Road, Colwyn Bay, LL29 7EL.

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/111118/pier-pressure-campaigners-waiting-for-result-of-4-8m-aid-bid.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/111118/pier-pressure-campaigners-waiting-for-result-of-4-8m-aid-bid.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 20, 2012, 10:11:01 AM
That might be a better and more appropriate job for Yorkie,  (better than a County Councillor at lest) .... I see all these skills present in his CV!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on March 20, 2012, 01:41:05 PM
Don't want the pier pressure!    L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 23, 2012, 12:47:51 PM
Daily Post
by David Powell

A PIVOTAL decision on funding for a derelict pier will be made next week – but cannot be announced until after the May local elections in case it’s used for unfair political gain by electioneering candidates.

Heritage Lottery Fund chiefs rule on a £4.9m grant bid to redevelop Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier on Tuesday.

But they are not allowed to divulge the decision until after Conwy County Council elections on May 3, 37 days later.

A Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) spokesman yesterday said: “An application for £4,965,000 to save the Grade II-listed Colwyn Bay Pier is going to the HLF Board on Tuesday, March 27.

“But owing to the restricted period of electoral ‘purdah’ the Board is very unlikely to be able to make its decision public until after the local elections.”

If the lottery fund bid is successful the way will open for campaigners in community group Shore Thing and the county council to look for further funding. The £4,965,000 would represent 43% of the estimated £10m needed to redevelop the pier.

In the first stage of any two-stage HLF grant, a relatively small sum would fund a feasibility study and business case to be made this year. A second larger tranche would follow for building work.

If the lottery fund bid is unsuccessful then it would mean the pier would cost £1m to demolish or it could be allowed to rot.

The pier was previously owned by businessman Steve Hunt. He got into a wrangle with Conwy Council over business rates and council tax and was declared bankrupt in summer 2008. That bankruptcy has now been discharged.

Currently, the pier is being cared for by the Crown Estate but its long-term ownership is uncertain.

Welsh Office Minister and Clwyd West MP David Jones said the funding is pivotal. “It’s extremely important to Colwyn Bay that the pier, which is currently a disfigurement on the seafront, should be put into reasonable condition.

“Ideally, I would like to see it completely restored and am very hopeful that the Heritage Lottery Grant bid will be successful.”

He added: “I understand legal issues about the ownership remain to be addressed. I hope that this can be sorted out as quickly as possible.”

The election rules means that a funding announcement may not be publicised until May to avoid well-informed candidates scoring political points over rivals.

The MP said: “People will be anxious to know the result but the rules are in place for a very good reason.”

A Conwy County Council spokesman said: “The council is in the process of acquiring the pier.”
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 28, 2012, 09:47:08 AM
It has just been announced that CCBC are the new owners of Colwyn Bay Pier.  $good$

At last the deadlock is broken!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 28, 2012, 12:39:28 PM
BBC Story:

Colwyn Bay pier: Conwy council takes over ownership

Conwy council said it was the new owner of Colwyn Bay's 112-year-old Victoria pier, after the Welsh government acquired it from the Crown Estate.

Funding will now be sought to redevelop the landmark which once hosted performers such as Morecambe and Wise, Harry Secombe and Elvis Costello.

The pier has been shut since its former owner was made bankrupt in July 2008.

A consultation on multi-million pound plans for the pier's redevelopment was launched in November 2011.

The proposals for pier, which opened in June 1900, included a restaurant, revamped pavilion theatre and shops.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-17536844 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-17536844)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 28, 2012, 11:11:28 PM
''Funding will now be sought to redevelop the landmark which once hosted performers such as Morecambe and Wise, Harry Secombe and Elvis Costello''

Ahem.... and the mighty MOTORHEAD,  (admittedly before they were mighty)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: TheMedz on March 29, 2012, 08:17:20 AM
If Motorhead played their now, with the current state of the pier, you get the feeling they might find themselves falling through and playing on the beach.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 29, 2012, 08:42:14 AM
The price paid for the Pier was £36,000.

A CRUMBLING pier’s future looks brighter after a council bought it.

Conwy County Council has bought Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier from the Crown Estate with a £36,000 grant from the Welsh Government.

It ends a long ownership wrangle just weeks before Heritage Lottery Fund chiefs announce whether they will fund the pier’s redevelopment.

But Colwyn Bay Civic Society said the new owner is “immaterial” and the pier should be scrapped.


Conwy County Council yesterday said it has bought the 112-year-old structure, with Welsh Government help, as part of the multi-million pound regeneration programme in the town.

Conwy’s chief executive Iwan Davies said: “Acquiring the pier is not without risks, but the Council has assessed likely scenarios and decided taking control now is less risky than standing by and doing nothing. We’ll work closely with community enterprise Shore Thing to make sure we can make progress in a constructive and positive way.”

Conwy Council and Shore Thing will now be able to “progress with applications for funding the restoration and redevelopment of Victoria Pier”.

On the new ownership, Clwyd West AM Darren Millar Tweeted: “It’s great news!”

And Chris Jackson, North Wales Tourism chairman, called the ownership news a “good thing”. He said: “We needed to see clarity because the pier is a blot on that beautiful bay. It either needs to be renovated or taken down.

“I wish the council every success in their application for Lottery funding.

“To be successful they will have to have a sensible and practical business plan to make sure it is sustainable.”

Graham Roberts, Colwyn Bay Civic Society president, said: “The pier’s ownership is immaterial. It’s like ‘pass the parcel’. We had a secret ballot and 75% of the society decided sadly its days are over – and still would do.

“How can you justify even £1m to bring it down and not spend the money on schools, roads and hospitals?”

Clwyd West MP David Jones warned the next step could be costly. He said: “If the council does not obtain the funding it could be compelled to restore the pier by (historic buildings body) Cadw. Or it could ask Cadw to consent to its demolition. Either way, the council tax payer will end up footing the bill.”

On the ownership change, community group Shore Thing’s Jay Martin said: “It’s a good step to get it into public ownership. But it’s still a small step.”

Observers posted Facebook messages about the ownership change.

On the page ‘Daily Post Conwy’ David Roberts wrote: “It’s great news. It’s a problem that needs to be dealt with, and CCBC are best placed to do that.”

Abdul Khan called for funding to restore it.

A Welsh Government spokesperson said: “We have provided £36,000 to enable Conwy Council to take ownership of the pier from the Crown Estate. This will enable the council to include the Grade II Listed Victorian structure in its regeneration plans.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/03/29/crumbling-pier-is-bought-55578-30648473/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/03/29/crumbling-pier-is-bought-55578-30648473/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 29, 2012, 09:49:46 AM
Who benefits from the £36,000?

Is it to cover the administrators costs, or I wonder if Mr Hunt will receive it?

Neither concerns me, and I would be happy if he did get a little something, I was just wondering...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 29, 2012, 10:05:11 AM
It all goes to the Crown Estate, I imagine. Since the Administrators washed their hands of it, I assume they also waived the right to receive any proceeds in the event of a sale.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian48 on March 29, 2012, 10:09:15 AM
I am all for the regeneration of places, but I am not sure that Colwyn Bay pier is somewhere that can be restored that easily. What will it become? There was talk of a theatre, but we already have Venue Cymru 5 miles down the road and Theatr Colwyn has just been refurbished. Is there really the market for another theatre?

I think the funds needed to restore it (which will all be from the public purse), will far outweigh what it will ever bring in. Essentially, it's a complete rebuild that is needed, the planking, the buildings at the front, probably even the pavilion itself, all need a complete rebuild. Is it worth it? It was a pier without a genuine purpose even when it was built, as it's never been really reachable by boats.

Should we really be pumping money into something that even when built was a bit of a whimsy?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bri Roberts on March 29, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
I wonder if it may turn out to be cheaper in our pockets to renovate the pier with grant funding rather than demolishing the pier altogether with council  tax money provided by us.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM
I think the Pier has a lot of potential, in both offering facilities for visitors during the Summer months and as a community facility all year round. As a business, it would struggle. As a charity-run operation, it should be sustainable, in my view.

CCBC have fenced off the front of the Pier and put up more warning notices:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 29, 2012, 08:23:23 PM
My question over who gets the £36,000 still stands.

When you relinquish something as an 'onerous asset' as the administrators did, then you lose any rights to benefit financially from it.
The Crown Estate have dome nothing to secure it or improve it, so once again, I doubt if they could justifiably claim £36,000.

I am not given to FOI requests, but I think that this may be the only means of getting to the bottom of this.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on March 30, 2012, 09:04:34 AM
Mr Hunt has tweeted that it has not been sold as the Crown cannot sell something they don't own. He states the matter is in court on 23rd April. He further states he was with the police and council when the new signs were being put up a few days ago.
He may have been quiet for a while but he's still singing the same song..  :P
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 30, 2012, 09:46:07 AM
He would obviously be happy for the pier to collapse into the sea rather than it be restored by someone else.

Amazing how he can afford all these legal fees but couldn't afford to pay his rates in the first place...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 02, 2012, 09:55:08 PM
 $fan$

Statement
Heritage Lottery Fund statement - Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier, Conwy
Wednesday 28 March 2012     

The Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) has assessed a £4.9m application from Conwy Borough County Council (CBCC) towards the restoration of Grade II listed Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier. After careful consideration, it was decided the Fund was unable to support the project.

Jennifer Stewart, Head of HLF Wales, said:
“We were impressed with the Council’s imaginative plans to transform Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier and its Art Deco pavilion into a much-needed community and tourist centre.
“This month’s HLF Board meeting was very over-subscribed.  The quality of bids was exceptionally high and, regretfully, we just didn’t have enough money to support all the applications we looked at on the day.  We will be meeting with representatives from the Council shortly to discuss the best way forward for their project.”

 
Background
To date, HLF has made awards in Conwy totalling £8.5m.
CBBCC has received previous grants totalling £5.8m for a number of HLF Townscape Heritage Initiative and parks projects.

Notes to editors

Using money raised through the National Lottery, the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) sustains and transforms a wide range of heritage for present and future generations to take part in, learn from and enjoy. From museums, parks and historic places to archaeology, natural environment and cultural traditions, we invest in every part of our diverse heritage.  HLF has supported more than 30,000 projects allocating over £4.5billion across the UK, including more than 2,000 projects totalling over £217million in Wales.

 
Further information

Please contact Katie Owen, HLF Press Office, on tel: 020 7591 6036 mob: 07973 613 820

 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 02, 2012, 11:02:29 PM
I've only just blogged about this, my fears are that if funding is not available we, the tax payers, are going to get lumbered with the upkeep of it.

http://voicesofcolwynbay.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/not-so-sure-thing.html (http://voicesofcolwynbay.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/not-so-sure-thing.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on April 02, 2012, 11:57:41 PM
Pier campaign down but not out | Darren Millar AM http://bit.ly/HFNGtD (http://bit.ly/HFNGtD)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 03, 2012, 12:41:39 AM
That really instills me with confidence.... _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 03, 2012, 09:23:02 AM
It's a setback, certainly, but not a death blow. I'm sure that WG or WREN could be persuaded to come up with a few quid to get the ball rolling.

Personally, I think Shore Thing would be better served just harnessing the goodwill within the community and get stuck in to tidying the pier up and getting the shoreward end building reopened - it's tatty, certainly, but perfectly usable with a few repairs. Get the cafe going again (maybe in the old bar area to take advantage of the panoramic views), get the tackle shop reopened to bring in some rent, have a display of plans/ideas for the pier, an art gallery etc etc. All this could be done for a few thousand pounds and some volunteer labour.

Surely a display of effort and enthusiasm from the local community would make organisations such as the HLF far more likely to contribute in future?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 03, 2012, 09:34:22 AM
A very logical interim plan Dave.

I for one would pop into to the Pier cafe or whatever they opened in the landward pavilion building, and spend a few bob as it would be something new and deserve supporting.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 03, 2012, 10:12:23 AM
What I said before and what I still stand by.....

Thursday, 29 March 2012
NOT SO SURE THING

Colwyn Bay Pier (Victoria Pier) falling (pardon the pun) into the hands of CCBC may not be the good news we all think it is. Shore Thing, the “front-men” for the Council have come up with some ideas that look good on paper but, in reality, may not work.

Call me a sceptic but unless the Pier hits the ground running as a commercial venture then it is doomed to failure and, if that happens, it will be the local tax payer who is burdened with the cost of it and that could dwindle on for many years.

I remain convinced that the only viable way for the Pier to succeed is in the hands of a private company, if that company is a gaming company and they want to open a casino then so be it, let them. If Shore Thing remain in control and only partially refit the pier, as and when funding is available then we are back to the way that Steve Hunt was trying to do it, building it up when he could afford it.

I was there when the original “Shore Thing” was set up, their main criteria was that no Councillors were to be involved with its workings yet I know of a couple who are skirting around it and, in my opinion, pulling the strings.....the Council remain in control but at arms length so, with running costs and maintenance estimated at over £50,000 a year who do you think will end up paying for it?

Please God....let me be wrong!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 03, 2012, 10:23:45 AM
The fact is, John, it is in the hands of CCBC and no HLF money is forthcoming. So what's the route forward?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 03, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
But according to Steve Hunt, CCBC are not yet the confirmed legal owners of the Pier.

The truth is most elusive.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 03, 2012, 11:20:30 AM
Dave,
As you know I battled for the restoration of the pier but not at a cost to the general public I wanted to allow NPower to build an underwater wall from Rhos Point to Llanddulas Point with turbines that work on the rise and fall of the tide, this wall would form a harbour off our coast, protection towards sea erosion of our beached and allow a private company to extend the pier.
Once the pier was extended a pontoon marina could be put at the end of it, making it the only non-tidal marina in North Wales, on the extended pier the company that bought it could build a casino,  restaurant, shops with housing above and, down the side of the pier, jet-ski housing and launch pads.
The wall would provide classic conditions for jet ski competitions, a safe marina for boats, the pier would provide the shops and entertainment that would suit the boating fraternity and the town, its hotels and shops would also benefit.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on April 03, 2012, 12:59:25 PM
If I won £10m on the lottery today, would I or anyone else think it's a good idea investing it all in the pier ?
No. So why expect the lottery to ? Saving our heritage may well be seen as a worthy cause but when it's saved who and how many actually enjoy it ?

The Pier in Llandudno is starting to look in need of some TLC and I think getting boats sailing from the end again would be a far better use of probably a lot less money.

As for Jet Skis, they should be banned not encouraged. The few that use Colwyn Bay for a base make as much noise as the Expressway creates and can be heard from as far as Upper Colwyn Bay.

Just my opinion of course !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 04, 2012, 01:32:14 PM
I don't understand the fuss over CCBC buying the Pier.

Fact is, regardless of the HLF grant application, if they hadn't bought it, then it would have become steadily more derelict until...CCBC were forced to step in and demolish it at taxpayers expense. So the taxpayer foots the bill either way.

I've always regarded the idea of an HLF 'magic bullet' to solve all the financial problems in one fell swoop as being 50/50 at best. I recall the public meeting held a couple of years ago and the enormous amount of goodwill towards the pier that was evident. CBI Insurance offered a £10,000 donation at that meeting, I believe. Time for Shore Thing to hold a meeting, roll up their sleeves, and start to get the work done.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: poppy on April 04, 2012, 03:37:40 PM
If the boat stuck on the rocks in Llandulas makes its way down the coast and crashes into the pier, causing the pier to fall into the sea, could the council claim off the boat owners insurance?  :twoface:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on April 04, 2012, 06:20:12 PM
From what i found out there are a few things off here...



Colwyn Bay Pier (Victoria Pier) falling (pardon the pun) into the hands of CCBC may not be the good news we all think it is. Shore Thing, the “front-men” for the Council have come up with some ideas that look good on paper but, in reality, may not work.
Call me a sceptic but unless the Pier hits the ground running as a commercial venture then it is doomed to failure and, if that happens, it will be the local tax payer who is burdened with the cost of it and that could dwindle on for many years.


If the council have to wait another year for Shore Ting to get funding all the council would have to do would be to keep it up to the elf n safety needs which i am sure they could claw back that tax payers money by opening something up at the front part of the pier? Then they would have have done more for the pier for not that much money in the long run then anybody else has done in the past 3 years!!! Shouldn't the local council support the redevelopment of a tourist attraction for a social enterprise rather than some of the stupid things they waste our money on?


I remain convinced that the only viable way for the Pier to succeed is in the hands of a private company, if that company is a gaming company and they want to open a casino then so be it, let them. If Shore Thing remain in control and only partially refit the pier, as and when funding is available then we are back to the way that Steve Hunt was trying to do it, building it up when he could afford it.


Unfortunately many funding bodies would not be available if it was in the hands of a private business and Shore Thing would not be able to go after grants or funding on their behalf. It took so long to apply to the HLF because of the ownership issue. If they didn't own it then they couldn't apply for funding.

I was there when the original “Shore Thing” was set up, their main criteria was that no Councillors were to be involved with its workings yet I know of a couple who are skirting around it and, in my opinion, pulling the strings.....the Council remain in control but at arms length so, with running costs and maintenance estimated at over £50,000 a year who do you think will end up paying for it?

That seems strange. Shore Thing was only made at the beginning of last year independently?
The community group was formed after the 1st public meeting and before the 2nd public meeting and vowed there would be no councillor in there group so had no voting rights as this was how the 'friends of the pier' fell apart... 

They went to the 2nd meeting in St Pauls after registering as a community group and all stood up as one community group when asked by (MP) Jones is anybody wanted to join the steering group. After that meeting there was no way for the steering group to meet together as 'data protection' stopped each member from finding out who the other members were to gather together. The elections came about and off he went to Cardiff.

The pier pressure group carried along on their own until after a good six months or so the group got hold of david jones and got a meeting to which he invited the few people that had stood up along side the group in St Pauls. They invited these people to join their community group as it was obvious they were not going to get any help. Hence at the beginning of 2011 Shore Thing was set up with some of the community group members with Wales CoOpCentre when they (Victoria Pier Pressure Group) learned that they will be better off getting grants and funding as a social enterprise.


Please God....let me be wrong!

I hope so as well to be honest!

The fact is that if the pier got the the completely unsafe shape of being beyond repair and if RPG still had the pier the council would eventually have to pay £1.2 million to knock it down. If crown estates still had the pier the council would still have to pay to knock it down and if Steve Hunt got it back he couldn't raise enough money or be able to bid for funding he wouldn't be able to afford to knock it down so..... yup tax payers would still have to pay to knock it down.

I really do think that as crown estates have signed over the pier by being bought by the Welsh assembly government and put in the care of the council then i am sure spending £50k or whatever to ensure the front is safe is a viable option and a chance to raise funds with Shore Thing and the public, raise awareness and explain to everybody that... hey funding is out there and we just have to fight for it, we all pay into European pots and lottery tickets so hell fire we want some of it back for the community! As Fester said if the front was open that's one cup of decent coffee for a quid... north Wales get's 8million tourists a year.... 49,999 cups to go and the £50k takes care of its self! (i'm an optimist lol)

The fact the Heritage Lottery Fund have said to the papers it wants to meet up with the council after the elections has to be a good sign as if the proposal was pants then they wouldn't bother! They open new funding pots each year and Shore Thing just managed to jump on the back of last years. This years pot will start at some point soon i would think?

Yet again it is back to waiting till after the elections (oh and Steve Hunts last court appeal coincidentally) before anything can be done.

Hmmm i feel like i'm ranting but honestly i am not :)

SCMP

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 06, 2012, 04:16:24 PM
I noticed today that CCBC have covered up the 'PIER OPEN EVERY DAY' and 'CAFE & BAR OPEN' signs on the side of the pier. You'd have thought that boarding up the broken windows would have been a more important job, but apparently not....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 06, 2012, 05:43:05 PM
The murky waters (and not those under the pier) are starting to wash-up some of the dirty dealings that have gone on.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on April 06, 2012, 08:13:14 PM
  Oh dear, Ive got to go against my friend DaveR yet again. Its not personal, honest. I wrote to this forum, or maybe the previous forum, saying there were five or six signs saying "Open" and couldnt someone, anyone, paint them out.
   I absolutely HATE seeing Open on a shop doorway and then finding it locked. And Ive had to put up with looking at open on the pier every day for the last two years.  Mike   P.S. Tomorrow Ill be watching out for the broken windows.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on April 06, 2012, 08:19:05 PM
Colwyn Bay pier – a long and sad tale | David Jones, MP http://bit.ly/HmUhwb (http://bit.ly/HmUhwb)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 06, 2012, 08:33:36 PM
I don't agree with Jones' plan, to be honest. Why should CCBC pay a 'commercial rent' to Steve Hunt for a pile of rusty metal that is effectively worth nothing? At the end of the day, the Pier fell into final disrepair on Hunt's watch - he spent his time fiddling about with stained glass ceilings and building xmas trees out of scaffolding when the structure of the pier itself was rusting away.

My views is...it may fall to the taxpayer to save the pier, but it does certainly not fall to the taxpayer to save Hunt's finances. He deserves not one penny.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 06, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
Dave,
Basically because it may not have been the most moral option but, as far as the tax payer is concerned it would have been the cheapest.
People have allowed personalities to cloud their judgements, I've just blogged about it, but because someone "got the hump" we are all now going to have to pay for it!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on April 06, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
Oscars latest posting about the pier saga :-

Thoughts of Oscar: Who Was It? http://bit.ly/I2VRQQ (http://bit.ly/I2VRQQ)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 07, 2012, 05:12:13 PM
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Dave,
Basically because it may not have been the most moral option but, as far as the tax payer is concerned it would have been the cheapest.
People have allowed personalities to cloud their judgements, I've just blogged about it, but because someone "got the hump" we are all now going to have to pay for it!
We were always going to have to pay for it, John! You know as well as I do that Hunt carried out no repairs to the substructure of the pier while he owned it. I have the photos, showing how poor a condition it was in before it closed. It was only a matter of time before it was closed on safety grounds and the burden fell onto the taxpayer to sort the mess out.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: John Oddy on April 07, 2012, 05:49:56 PM
Dave,
You and I have this convo before, I totally agree with you that Steve Hunt was/is not the best person to own the pier because of his financial situation BUT...CCBC were in a position where they could have leased the pier from him at a peppercorn rent, they could have then sub-leased it to Shore Thing. It would have been up to them to source funding, with CCBC’s help, the bid for lottery funding was flawed and I pointed this out at the time, but the real question here is; why did CCBC buy the pier before they knew the result of the bid?
What they have done is saddle us, the tax payer, with an, as yet, unknown bill. The pier has to be made safe and maintained, the cost of which will be in the 10’s of thousands, by taking responsibility for it they have committed us to its upkeep and all because the leader of the council refused to discuss the matter and walked out of the meeting.
There is, of course, opportunity to re-submit the bid but that will take time, until then the safety and upkeep of the pier is at our cost, again I say, needlessly. Schedule 12a (public and press exempt) was used throughout the meetings held about the pier so we will never know the full truth or if, even, the full council were ever made aware of the three different lease options that were put on the table at the David Jones meeting.
The entire handling of this has been scandalous from day one and, as far as I can see, there are questions that need to be answered and those answers need to come from the very top of the CCBC tree.   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 07, 2012, 06:25:17 PM
I agree with 99% of what you say. CCBC's handling of the whole business has been appalling. I just don't believe that Hunt would have granted a lease to anyone at a peppercorn rent - he said on Twitter he wanted a commercial rent:

@victoriapier @cllrjason how much for ? Peppercorn rent seeing the condition it's in ???
@Thoughtsofoscar @cllrjason no, commercial rent determined by estate agent / district valuer / what council let it's own buildings out for

I have to say i also find his casual racism rather distasteful:

"Most of all it needs a council that doesn't have a personal/political vendetta against successive English owners."

 &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 08, 2012, 11:10:41 PM
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I have to say i also find his casual racism rather distasteful:

"Most of all it needs a council that doesn't have a personal/political vendetta against successive English owners."

 &shake&

Ha ha Dave... I assume that you object to his 'casual' racism against the English,  and you would prefer it to be more 'Formal'?

 _))* _))*   :laugh: :laugh:

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on April 09, 2012, 08:50:50 AM
And - to be technical - I suspect it's really casual Nationalism.  Those born in England or Wales are actually the same species, Dave….

 :twoface: :twoface: :twoface:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 09, 2012, 09:08:41 AM
Not a phrase I've ever heard anyone use, Ian.  :P
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on April 09, 2012, 01:21:43 PM
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And - to be technical - I suspect it's really casual Nationalism.  Those born in England or Wales are actually the same species, Dave….

 :twoface: :twoface: :twoface:

Some of us aren't!      ^^^^
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on April 10, 2012, 03:24:51 PM
I believe that Steve Hunts proposals included owning the pier and leasing it via the council to Shorething which they would have to pay rent to him at a smaller rate but after 3 years it would rise to £100k a year so they would have to raise that rent before even being able to spend any money on the estimated £50k a year upkeep, pay wages, marketing etc... To me that is NOT a peppercorn rent!!!

Unfortunately Steve Hunt wont make these proposals public on his website and he when he approached the council for help they wanted a business plan from him which he has never made public. I'm just wondering why his proposals are not public , If he showed his proposals publicly maybe the local people would be behind them? Unless they are as preposterous as rumours say?

As i have said before because of the lack or proper renovation Steve Hunt did on the pier that it would eventually fall on the council / tax payers to pay for fixing it up or knocking it down. He did do work on the pier but not enough and in my own opinion not in the right places which he would have never been able to renovate it because of lack of funds.

I'm not knocking the man for trying years ago when nobody else wanted but his behaviour since realising he had bitten off more that he can chew and them loosing the pier has been down right horrid at times. I know the pier pressure group don't say much in the paper but i have been told some people fear him from some of the phone calls and messages they have got and at least they seem to have the behaviour not to throw it in the news paper and feed the fire.

When the council 'got' the pier i went down to have a look at what was going on with the new lock being put on and the cherry picker thing they were painting the side of it. The workers (i think they may have been employed by the council or hired freelance people' got a mouth full of abuse and then called the police on them.

I certainly don't want my hard earned money going to line his pockets, the council do enough damage with my council tax :)
 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 10, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
Very interesting. This just illustrates once again to me how he is not a fit person to be either involved with the pier in any way in the future or to benefit financially from his appalling behaviour.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on April 11, 2012, 11:01:21 PM
Secrecy over Colwyn Bay pier must be lifted says MP - Daily Post North Wales http://bit.ly/HIevjV (http://bit.ly/HIevjV)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on April 23, 2012, 06:23:42 PM
Colwyn Bay Pier ownership still in question - North Wales News - News - Daily Post North Wales http://bit.ly/IjGZ2T (http://bit.ly/IjGZ2T)

David Jones, MP | A dreadful mess http://bit.ly/IjH7Q7 (http://bit.ly/IjH7Q7)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 24, 2012, 10:34:57 AM
Another £12,000 of Steve Hunt's money down the drain. I hope no taxpayers money was wasted on this.

Steve Hunt’s claim against Conwy County Council auditors KPMG is rejected by court

A JUDGE yesterday rejected an attempt by businessman Steve Hunt to claim Conwy County Council’s auditors acted unlawfully.

The former Colwyn Bay Pier owner had claimed that Ian Denzil Pennington, a director for Conwy County Council’s auditors KPMG, had acted unlawfully in allowing council tax payers’ money to be spent repairing the pier in 2009-10. Mr Hunt claimed that that was the responsibility of then trustees in bankruptcy - administrators Royce Peeling Green.

But his honour Judge Milwyn Jarman QC agreed with KPMG's barrister Hugh Derbyshire at Mold County Court to “strike out” the claim.

The judge said although Mr Hunt had attended two meetings with KPMG it was his friend Gary Willetts – not Mr Hunt – who had received correspondence from KPMG. Neither had Mr Hunt been on Conwy's electoral register, as required, at the given time. The judge said: “I am satisfied that Mr Pennington has shown that the statement of case shows no reasonable grounds for a case against him.”

KPMG’s barrister Mr Derbyshire initially asked for costs of £19,543.04 from Mr Hunt. However, after negotiations between both sides this figure was reduced to £12,000.

After the case, Mr Hunt said the fact the court had struck out his claim was “a shame”. But he would be asking questions about Conwy County Council spending in other financial years.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/24/steve-hunt-s-claim-against-conwy-county-council-auditors-kpmg-is-rejected-by-court-55578-30824319/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/24/steve-hunt-s-claim-against-conwy-county-council-auditors-kpmg-is-rejected-by-court-55578-30824319/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 24, 2012, 09:56:00 AM
THE DISPUTED ownership of an historic pier is set to be sorted out at a court case in July.

A judge at Cardiff County Court will decide who owns Colwyn Bay’s Grade II listed Victoria Pier on Friday, July 20.

Businessman and one-time owner Steve Hunt believes he owns it after a three-year bankruptcy period expired in July 2011.

But it latterly fell into the hands of the Crown Estate. Conwy County Borough Council bought it from them for £36,000 with a Welsh Government grant. Days later, the Heritage Lottery Fund board rejected Conwy’s £4.9m grant bid to restore it.


But Mr Hunt disputes the validity of the “purchase” and took his fight to Mold County Court on April 23. It was adjourned to be listed again.

Conwy’s chief executive Iwan Davies said: “The hearing date is listed for July 20 in Cardiff. We’re keen for the hearing to take place on that date and not to be delayed again, so that we can move on.

“Conwy County Borough Council and Shore Thing (a community enterprise which would help run the pier) representatives recently had a positive meeting with the Heritage Lottery Fund regarding the grant application and we’re looking to re-submit later in the year.”

The Mayor of Colwyn Bay Cllr Viv Perry said: “If it has any hope for the future it has to go the way it has been planned: for Shore Thing to put in a bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund with the assistance of Conwy CB Council. It’s either that or demolish it. It’s an absolute eyesore. The prom is going to look nice with the new waterfront building and the pier is bringing down the whole prom.”

Even demolition would cost £1m. But Cllr Perry said: “It’s not fair on the total taxpayers of Conwy County to have to pay £1m. I’m sure they would like to see improvements in their areas.”

She hopes any HLF grant would pay for the pier to be restored so it can be used by walkers and anglers, with no buildings on it. Hmmm, but who would pay for ongoing maintenance if there are no businesses generating money on the Pier?

Graham Roberts, of Colwyn Bay Civic Society, said: “My personal view is that the ownership is irrelevant. Whoever owns it is going to have to spend too much money that cannot be justified. The world has moved on. Piers are from a time that has gone.”  :laugh: Is this guy for real? Take a look around the UK, most Piers are thriving.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/05/24/date-set-for-colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-ownership-battle-55578-31034694/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/05/24/date-set-for-colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-ownership-battle-55578-31034694/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on May 25, 2012, 06:26:46 PM
All buildings need maintaining and they need to generate enough income to pay for that. With only a short season and even an all year round restaurant there is competition from other eating places and there is no guarantee of sustainability.

My idea was to refurbish the gates to the pier and put in a turnstile paying facility so that everyone going onto the pier - be that fishing people, people wanting to sit in the sun or just walk along a much shorter pier would all contribute to the long term maintenance. Any wrought iron rails that were superfluous due to shortening the pier, would be used to replace those that have deteriorated. Volunteers or Community payback could do the repainting.

I was involved many years ago as a student in Bangor in refurbishing that pier and we collected £1 per plank, also repainted it, so hoped to replicate this with regard to the sad sight that used to be our lovely pier.

I wouldn't like to think that we created something that was not sustainable and that our children and grandchildren would be facing the same problems in another 50 years!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on May 29, 2012, 09:24:48 AM
Twitter / theJeremyVine: Colwyn Bay pier, thriving http://bit.ly/JKUZCa (http://bit.ly/JKUZCa)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on May 29, 2012, 04:48:14 PM
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I was involved many years ago as a student in Bangor in refurbishing that pier and we collected £1 per plank, also repainted it, so hoped to replicate this with regard to the sad sight that used to be our lovely pier.

I wouldn't like to think that we created something that was not sustainable and that our children and grandchildren would be facing the same problems in another 50 years!

Unfortunately after Bangot pier opened and they had their honesty box type situation the local council etc have not spent any money on maintainance since it opened or at least not much. This left them with a million pound 'saved up' and needing another 2 million to get enough to do the works needed.

I think the Shore Thing documents had about £100k a year put aside in earnings to go into a maintanance pot to use each year, might have to be more but i don't know would be enough. This is what they would need just to maintain the pier basically so all other revenue earned would go back into the pier and maintanance after costs.

SCMP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 06, 2012, 11:06:31 AM
COUNCIL workers are making Colwyn Bay’s derelict pier safer while a court case to decide its ownership has been pushed back to next month.

Meanshile Conwy County Council and community group Shore Thing say they still plan to resubmit a bid for Heritage Lottery funding to revamp the Grade II listed Victoria Pier later this year.

Conwy representatives must travel to Cardiff County Court on August 17 because former owner Steve Hunt is again challenging the ownership.

His family has poured tens of thousands of pounds into the structure and claim it was not the authority’s to buy when it was purchased from holding body the Crown Estate in the spring.

Mr Hunt claims the pier should have reverted back to him as it failed to sell in three years following him being bankrupted by a dispute over business rates with the authority.

Mr Hunt had an ownership hearing case adjourned at Mold County Court in April.

A judge sent the case to Cardiff to be heard this month but now it has been deferred to August. The reason is unclear.

Even so, Conwy Council said they are ploughing ahead with safety works to secure the site.

A spokeswoman said: “In the 14 weeks since Conwy County Council took ownership of the pier in Colwyn Bay, work has been taking place on a variety of health and safety issues and on safeguarding the listed building.

“The council’s property service has co-ordinated a team of experts including surveyors, environmental health and conservation officers and harbour staff.

“Work has been carried out to make safe access routes into the various buildings and to ensure safety is maintained on the structure and on the surrounding area and beach.

“A significant amount of rubbish has been cleared from the site and efforts are being made to safeguard the important listed aspects of the pier, which are vulnerable.”

Conwy had a £4.9m bid to Heritage Lottery Fund rejected in April. But council chiefs held talks with HLF officials in May.

A council statement added: “In May, Conwy Council and Shore Thing had a very positive meeting with Heritage Lottery Fund representatives about the grant application. The council and Shore Thing intend to re-submit a bid for funding to Heritage Lottery Fund later this year. Shore Thing and the Pier Pressure Group are pursuing projects to collect historical information that can be used for heritage interpretation in the future and will be looking to recruit volunteers and publicise sponsorship opportunities as soon as possible.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/07/06/fresh-lottery-bid-for-colwyn-bay-pier-revamp-55578-31335033/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/07/06/fresh-lottery-bid-for-colwyn-bay-pier-revamp-55578-31335033/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 07, 2012, 09:03:19 PM
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A spokeswoman said: “A significant amount of rubbish has been cleared from the site and efforts are being made to safeguard the important listed aspects of the pier, which are vulnerable.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/07/06/fresh-lottery-bid-for-colwyn-bay-pier-revamp-55578-31335033/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/07/06/fresh-lottery-bid-for-colwyn-bay-pier-revamp-55578-31335033/)
Yeh, looks like it:  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on August 17, 2012, 01:03:16 PM
Via Chris Dearden on Twitter :-

Further adjournment in Colwyn Bay pier ownership case as judge asks both sides to try and sort it out between themselves.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on August 17, 2012, 05:34:40 PM
I find this impossible to believe. Talk about Alice in Wonderland. Why could not someone, anyone, from Judge downwards, suggested this around six/twelve /18/24 months ago? And now we hear mr hunts mother arrives on the scene, with threats of further proceedings. It's about time Colwyn Bay residents took it onto themselves to tell her and her son to carry on-- but from now on all legal costs are paid by you And UP Front. Mike
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 17, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
Mr. Hunt has lost his claim to be owner of Colwyn Bay Pier. There is a separate claim in involving his Mother's interest in the Pier (I bet she thanks her son for letting her have a piece of that investment!)  which will be held later in the year.

I wonder if Mr Hunt will now be made to pay all the cost of the case he has lost, including that of CCBC, or rather, OUR money that he has wasted in his futile attempt?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on August 17, 2012, 10:10:41 PM
Where will he get the money from to pay all these legal fees? If his mother is now taking out a new case would this be against Conwy Council or against her son I wonder?  If she invested in the pier she surely had some agreement with her son so as to get her money back, such as first charge if sold? Or was she a legal partner in the business -in which case she should have been jointly and severally liable for the debts.  Was her name put on the deeds or was it just a mother trusting that her beloved son knew what he was doing? Whichever it was, it was a poor investment  -  you have to speculate to accumulate, but you have to prepared to accept the knocks too.

It is now absolutely appalling that all these costs to date are falling on all Conwy Taxpayers when important services are having to be cut to save money. Add to this the overspends on badly managed projects and you are talking mega bucks. It's time that it all stopped so that the public can know that their money is being spent wisely
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on August 18, 2012, 08:38:37 AM
But it also serves as a warning that enacting CPOs is certainly not the easy option many seem to think it is.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Gaylord Screwsby on August 18, 2012, 02:14:30 PM
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But it also serves as a warning that enacting CPOs is certainly not the easy option many seem to think it is.

This wasn't a CPO though rather a dispute following Mr Hunt's bankruptcy.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on August 18, 2012, 02:51:37 PM
True;  and you'd think this would be a simpler affair, since ownership of the pier apparently passed to the Crown Estates, who then let CCBC have it.  I suspect, however nothing, is simple when you have a sufficiently determined individual involved.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 18, 2012, 05:44:16 PM
If a CPO had been used, there would have been no dispute over ownership. Not that there is a dispute, really, Mr Hunt ran out of money and lost his ownership as a result.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on August 18, 2012, 07:42:56 PM
Tweet from Victoria Pier Pressure Group:

Heritage Hottery Fund re application is going so well, the pier has been alive with surveyors, and it will be submitted later this year!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on August 18, 2012, 11:35:43 PM
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But it also serves as a warning that enacting CPOs is certainly not the easy option many seem to think it is.

This wasn't a CPO though rather a dispute following Mr Hunt's bankruptcy.

Hey Gaylord!   Nice to see you finally got around to posting.... keep 'em coming!  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Gaylord Screwsby on August 19, 2012, 06:27:31 PM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
But it also serves as a warning that enacting CPOs is certainly not the easy option many seem to think it is.

This wasn't a CPO though rather a dispute following Mr Hunt's bankruptcy.

Hey Gaylord!   Nice to see you finally got around to posting.... keep 'em coming!  $good$

Sorry for the delay. Was really good to meet you Fester, only last December!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 12, 2012, 09:44:46 AM
A COUNCIL yesterday voted to insist a businessman pays its legal costs over a pier ownership court battle.

Steve Hunt had taken his bid to validate his ownership claim of Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier to Cardiff County Court last month.

But he lost the case and a judge ordered him to pay Conwy County Council’s costs, which are still to be calculated.

Yesterday Conwy’s Cabinet voted to press ahead with enforcing that costs order.

However, there is an outstanding claim by Mr Hunt’s mother Gloria, which will be fully heard in the county court in October or November.

At the Cabinet meeting, the Cabinet member for communities Cllr Phil Edwards, a former police officer, told members: “The legal process has not been completed and because (of that) it is not open for discussion.”

In separate proceedings earlier this year, Mr Hunt failed in his bid to challenge Conwy’s auditors KPMG, following their audit of the accounts for the year 2010/2011.

An officer’s report to the Cabinet states that a costs order was made against Mr Hunt then too in the sum of £12,000 but that the sum remains unpaid. As the council have to reimburse KPMG for any costs relating to objection of the accounts (as these are not covered in KPMG’s annual fee), the council will have to pay the £12,000 to KPMG, according to the officer’s report.

Officers will chase Mr Hunt for the two outstanding costs from the KPMG case and August 17 case “with all reasonable means”, says the report.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/09/12/colwyn-bay-pier-owner-told-to-pay-legal-costs-over-court-battle-55578-31816208/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/09/12/colwyn-bay-pier-owner-told-to-pay-legal-costs-over-court-battle-55578-31816208/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 06, 2012, 09:35:08 PM
Goodbye Steve Hunt....

    
Location: | press releases
06/11/12 - Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay


A Court Hearing took place in Cardiff on Monday, 5th November in relation to Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay.

Mrs Hunt's application to adjourn the hearing was unsuccessful.

The Court considered Mrs Hunt's claim of a beneficial interest in the pier. 

Conwy County Borough Council was represented at the hearing and opposed the application made by Mrs Hunt.

The Court dismissed Mrs Hunt's application.  She was ordered to pay the Council's costs and was refused permission for leave to appeal.

Iwan Davies, Chief Executive, Conwy County Borough Council said, "The Council is pleased with the Court's decision.   The structure has been an eyesore for too long and we are eager to draw a line under this matter and, if the finance and grants package is secured, we will work towards dealing with the pier alongside the redevelopment of the waterfront at Colwyn Bay."

Conwy County Borough Council owns the pier and is working closely with Shore Thing, a not-for-profit charity community group, to secure its future.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on November 06, 2012, 09:47:16 PM
 I am sorry to say this because I admire anyone who "has a go" at doing virtually anything but ------ Steve Hunt should have given up the fight years and years ago. All this has done is drag out the outcome, and involved lots of wasted money on all sides. Yours and mine as well through local taxes which have been wasted.
   Yes, Steve and his Mother have lost money as well, but this prolonged battle was their own fault.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 06, 2012, 10:12:18 PM
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I am sorry to say this because I admire anyone who "has a go" at doing virtually anything but ------ Steve Hunt should have given up the fight years and years ago. All this has done is drag out the outcome, and involved lots of wasted money on all sides. Yours and mine as well through local taxes which have been wasted.
   Yes, Steve and his Mother have lost money as well, but this prolonged battle was their own fault.
Exactly.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Andy-Harris on November 06, 2012, 11:06:00 PM
As the recent press release that Conwy Council has a deficit of £7 million, is this the end for colwyn bay pier?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 08, 2012, 09:29:03 AM
Unfortunately, the Mayor's idea, although laudable, does not make economic sense. Revenue raised though an admission fee would barely cover the cost of a person to take the money, let alone pay for any maintenance.

As someone who's worked in Pier management, I can say that the secret to a sustainable pier is having the attractions on it that will generate the revenue to cover the ongoing maintenance costs.


Council wins latest pier court battle
Nov 8 2012 by David Powell, North Wales Weekly News

A BUSINESSWOMAN has lost her ownership battle for a pier - paving the way for a council to try to find a solution over its future.

The Mayor of Colwyn Bay now wants Victoria Pier to be restored for walkers and anglers - not for wider use - who can pay a contribution to its upkeep through turnstiles, similar to Bangor Pier.

The latest breakthrough came after a Cardiff County Court hearing on Monday. Former owner Steve Hunt had previously tried and failed to persuade a judge to uphold his ownership claim to the structure. His mother Gloria Hunt has been doing the same thing and on Monday she applied to adjourn the Cardiff hearing.
 
Conwy Council released a statement to say that she was unsuccessful. A council spokesman said that the court considered Mrs Hunt’s claim of a “beneficial interest” in the pier. Conwy County Borough Council opposed this application by Mrs Hunt and said that the court dismissed Mrs Hunt’s application. She was ordered to pay the council’s costs and was refused permission for leave to appeal. After the case, chief executive Iwan Davies, of Conwy County Borough Council, said: “The council is pleased with the court’s decision.” He hinted that the pier could have a future, saying: “The structure has been an eyesore for too long and we are eager to draw a line under this matter. And, if the finance and grants package is secured, we will work towards dealing with the pier alongside the redevelopment of the waterfront at Colwyn Bay.”

The authority owns the pier and is working closely with Shore Thing, a not-for-profit charity community group, to secure its future.Cllr Viv Perry, the Mayor of Colwyn Bay, wants it to be restored for walkers and anglers - not for any others, potentially costly uses which would have to be maintained and incur future, unnecessary debts. She said: “It has to be fully sustainable and not a drain on council taxpayers. I don’t want to leave a debt disaster to our children and grandchildren otherwise they will find themselves in exactly the same situation we are in - in 50 years time. I would prefer to see no buildings on it and have it similar to Bangor Pier. Maybe there could be a just a shelter at the end for people to sit in in inclement weather. Walkers and anglers could walk through turnstiles and pay to use the pier rather than taxpayers footing the bill for ever.”
The Mayor says that the pier, if restored, can sit alongside the under construction Porth Eirias watersports hotspot centre, as long as they serve different functions. Steve Hunt and Gloria Hunt could not be reached.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 14, 2012, 07:20:58 PM
Unfortunately, when you speak to the press you have no control over what actually is printed, anin this case, the insertion of an "s" in the wrong place changed the meaning of my comment which should have read -" walkers and anglers and other potentially costly uses ". As soon as you put buildings on a structure there is a massive increase in costs to maintain the whole thing all the year round. Shore Thing was suggesting a restaurant for training the unemployed and also some sort of manufacturing project - possibly sweets/cakes etc.  All these training ventures rely heavily on long term funding from Unemployment contracts etc,propped up by the income gained from the catering and manufactured product. I am concerned that it just would not be enough income to maintain the pier for years to come. I would really love to be proved wrong, but I know that Bangor pier generated a lot of turnstile and cafe income which unfortunately was not ringfenced by Gwynedd Council for a long term maintenance plan.

Well DaveR -with your experience in Pier Management, perhaps you could join the Shore thing group to strengthen their resolve and provide valuable advice?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: romanjohn on November 22, 2012, 01:11:03 AM
it seams that piers are in the news well and truly south parade  pier  in portsmouth  where i live is going up for auxtion next mounth the owners it seems are going to do a runner
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 22, 2012, 09:09:53 AM
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it seams that piers are in the news well and truly south parade  pier  in portsmouth  where i live is going up for auxtion next mounth the owners it seems are going to do a runner
Guide Price £190k - 210k. Amazing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2235691/South-Parade-Pier-Southsea-sold-auction-guide-price-just-190-00-210-000.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2235691/South-Parade-Pier-Southsea-sold-auction-guide-price-just-190-00-210-000.html)

http://www.cliveemson.co.uk/listing_view.asp?Lot=115&Auc=158 (http://www.cliveemson.co.uk/listing_view.asp?Lot=115&Auc=158)

"South Parade Pier offers huge scope and potential for a new owner and is considered very worthy of the works and repairs required, having reached a stage where investment is now required to restore the structure and enable its continuance as a well used local landmark.

The Pier is accessed from South Parade leading to a substantial amusement arcade with cloakroom and W.C., covered west passage leading to foyer and box office with management offices and store rooms.

Gaiety Suite (licensed capacity of 750) with stage area and three dressing rooms, substantial kitchen, large bar and associated beer cellars and storage, ladies and gents cloakrooms with W.C.s.

Albert Bar (licensed capacity of 400) including substantial bar with beer cellar, kitchen and servery, ladies and gents cloakrooms with W.C.s. Boardroom Meeting Room on the first floor (licensed capacity of 30).

Open east passage leading to the southern end of the pier, previously housing fairground style stalls, rides and crazy golf, but at present open. There is a fishing deck at a lower level beyond the main structure.

We have been advised that a substantial “basement” exists beneath the amusement arcade and that ladies and gents toilet facilities, which have lain unused for many years, exist beneath the main structure and are accessed from either side of the main entrance. These facilities have not been inspected."
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Jack on November 22, 2012, 09:13:30 AM
Yes but at least £2 million to restore - your going to need deep pockets!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on November 22, 2012, 03:56:35 PM
It's getting a fair amount of press. They even mentioned it on BBC Breakfast this morning.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 15, 2012, 09:40:15 AM
Will this idiot just not disappear?  &shake&

A BUSINESSMAN fighting for ownership of Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier has won the right to take his battle further.

Steve Hunt has been given leave to appeal to London’s High Court.

It follows a case in August when a judge upheld Conwy County Borough Council’s bid to own the crumbling structure – instead of Mr Hunt.

Then in November, Mr Hunt’s mother Gloria Hunt asked a Cardiff County Court judge to consider her claim that she had a “beneficial interest” in the pier having put £50,000 in it.

Conwy Council opposed this application and the court dismissed it. Mrs Hunt was ordered to pay the council’s costs and was refused permission for leave to appeal. But now her son is able to continue his own legal action over the pier ownership. It is not yet known when his case will be heard. Last night, Mr Hunt was unavailable for comment.

Conwy Connty Borough Council say they have been making the pier structurally safe but wouldn’t comment on the appeal.

Cllr Chris Hughes, of Colwyn Bay, wants the legal dispute and any funding applications to restore the pier dealt with quickly. He said: “Mr Hunt has an absolute right to exhaust the legal proceedings. My only concern is the longer this takes the more uncertain the future of the pier.” He said Heritage Lottery Fund staff want to know who owns it, and European Union and UK Government capital funding are limited.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/12/15/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier-dispute-goes-on-55578-32430669/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/12/15/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier-dispute-goes-on-55578-32430669/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 15, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
Went past the other day, seems to be a security guard there by the entrance, how ever much is that costing us?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on December 16, 2012, 12:46:39 PM
 Bad news about Steve Hunt arising again. I thought this had been well and truly put to bed. In view of the fact he obviously haven't got that sort of money' cannot the legal system say "look. You go ahead and appeal yet again. But this time you pay xxx amount of cash up front to finance it. Lose, and you lose your cash." why should we all go on financing this mans fantasies? Mike
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 16, 2012, 01:24:49 PM
I wonder if he's paid the costs of the last legal case that he lost yet?

In separate proceedings earlier this year, Mr Hunt failed in his bid to challenge Conwy’s auditors KPMG, following their audit of the accounts for the year 2010/2011.

An officer’s report to the Cabinet states that a costs order was made against Mr Hunt then too in the sum of £12,000 but that the sum remains unpaid. As the council have to reimburse KPMG for any costs relating to objection of the accounts (as these are not covered in KPMG’s annual fee), the council will have to pay the £12,000 to KPMG, according to the officer’s report.

Officers will chase Mr Hunt for the two outstanding costs from the KPMG case and August 17 case “with all reasonable means”, says the report.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 16, 2012, 02:29:39 PM
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Bad news about Steve Hunt arising again. I thought this had been well and truly put to bed. In view of the fact he obviously haven't got that sort of money' cannot the legal system say "look. You go ahead and appeal yet again. But this time you pay xxx amount of cash up front to finance it. Lose, and you lose your cash." why should we all go on financing this mans fantasies? Mike

Because we cannot continue paying the legal cases of Foreign Dissidents without supporting our own.
Are you sure it is a fantasy?  Remember he did originally purchase the Pier, and the way CCBC keep us in the dark they could be doing the same in this instance.  Maybe, just maybe, he has been wronged, in which case do you blame him for seeking Justice?
 $walesflag$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on January 05, 2013, 07:45:54 PM
Mr and Mrs Hunt has not paid for court costs etc and owes almost £60k so far. He keeps appealing because he has no money to pay what he owes.
He has put off court cases and had dates change for many reasons including 'being on holiday' just to drag it out, as he has said if he can't have it then he's going to make it as difficult as possible for the council to get funding.

The council legally own the pier and the worst that could happen is the high courts chould side with Mr Hunt and he is owed money (token gesture for what the pier is worth!)
The HLF have met with the council / ShoreThing and know that the council own the pier. The Wales HLF passed the last fuding bid through but then it goes to London so negative press is not a good thing and he know it.
Hunt 'offered' to take back the pier and lease it to the council/Shore Thing for 99 years starting at a £100k a year lease. When the pier is restored and after a few years it will cost around £100k just to keep the maintainance so thats £200k a year to keep the pier afloat.

He has admitted that he does not want the pier he just wants the money.

The pier pressure group have an public open thing in the bay view this coming tuesday and wednesday according to their website so it might be worth a chat with them?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 05, 2013, 08:09:54 PM
He should be declared a 'vexatious litigant' and told to b****r off, instead of wasting yet more taxpayers money.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 05, 2013, 10:26:03 PM
So now Mr Hunt has all but exhausted the legal process, and has found himself cornered by costs he cannot fulfill.

If he wishes to continue this ruinous crusade, he must be asked by the judge to lodge £200,000 with the court in lieu of any costs he MAY become liable for, IF he were to lose.

That is a common request in cases heard by Civil or Commercial Courts, to guard against time-wasters and 'Vexatious Litigants', as Dave has correctly labelled him.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 22, 2013, 09:06:49 AM
VPPG/Shore Thing are applying to put a cabin outside the pier to act as an office for their activities:

Community Council: Cyngor Tref Bay of Colwyn Town Council
Location: Victoria Pier The Promenade Colwyn Bay Conwy LL29 8HH
Proposal: Temporary site cabin located to the front concrete apron / forecourt of Victoria Pier
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on April 03, 2013, 05:47:48 PM
Hastings Pier which was substantially damaged by fire in 2010 has been awarded a £10m rebuild grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund if they can raise £2m themselves to complete the necessary rebuild costs. Somebody should have a good look at their application to see how it's done
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 11, 2013, 09:16:25 AM
I was walking down the bread aisle in ASDA today, when I saw a loaf of Kingsmill Wholemeal, which strangely reminded me of the pier's foolish previous owner, Steve Hunt.

But when I drew nearer to it, I realised that it actually said 'THICK CUT'



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 11, 2013, 09:37:42 AM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 11, 2013, 10:19:56 AM
 _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 16, 2013, 09:34:25 PM
The Pier Pressure Group have a new website:
http://www.victoriapiercolwynbay.com/index.html (http://www.victoriapiercolwynbay.com/index.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 18, 2013, 12:01:39 AM
If this latest BBC News report is to be believed,... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22185615 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22185615)

.... then this thread will need to be re-named, ''the NEVER ENDING SAGA OF........''

The High Court merry-go round continues.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 18, 2013, 11:04:24 AM
"Mr Hunt also argues he still owns a “dwelling” on the pier, which he has been unable to access since the council fenced it off.

Under insolvency law, he would be entitled to keep the property – even if the rest of the pier remains in the council's hands – if he was the occupant when the bankruptcy proceedings began.

He added: “I am locked out – the council changed the locks and put a fence up. I can’t go to collect my post and my car is still on the pier.”  :laugh:

Mr Hunt’s mother, Gloria Hunt, is also appealing the county court judge’s dismissal of her claim that she has a beneficial interest in the pier, as she gave her son half of the money to buy it."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2013/04/18/businessman-takes-colwyn-bay-pier-fight-to-high-court-55578-33194962/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2013/04/18/businessman-takes-colwyn-bay-pier-fight-to-high-court-55578-33194962/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 18, 2013, 11:15:49 AM
A car on that pier??  Surely that's not possible... is it?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 18, 2013, 11:21:46 AM
Hunt used to park his van on the side walkway....until it started to sag noticeably.  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 18, 2013, 12:58:38 PM
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A car on that pier??  Surely that's not possible... is it?

Is it one that you have to put 50p in the slot per ride?  WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: mull on April 18, 2013, 05:32:50 PM
Thats it the Noddy and Big Ears one.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on May 08, 2013, 02:23:08 PM

Daily Post Website:

A Businessman has scored what could turn out to be a critical victory in his fight to wrestle control of Colwyn Bay's crumbling Victoria pier from Conwy County Council.

Stephen Hunt insists that he or his mother, Gloria, should be recognised as the rightful owner of the pier he paid £100,000 for in 2003 with the intention of restoring it to its former glory.

But Conwy insists that it owns the pier, having bought it for £36,000 in March last year - using a grant from the Welsh Government - after it was transferred to the Crown Estate following bankruptcy proceedings against Mr Hunt.

That fundamental difference of opinion triggered an intense High Court dispute - from which Mr Hunt today emerged the winner.

Sir William Blackburne's ruling means that Mr Hunt will get another chance to persuade a local judge that the pier, and the foreshore on which it stands, should be formally 'vested' in him.

The judge said Mr Hunt was made bankrupt at the council's behest in 2008 on the basis of just over £5,000 in allegedly unpaid council tax and rate demands. That meant everything he owned, including the pier, passed into the hands of his trustee in bankruptcy.

The trustee at first applied for a court order forcing Mr Hunt to give up possession of the pier. However, the trustee later disclaimed all interest in the pier and foreshore and they passed to the Crown Estate Commissioners who, in turn, transferred them to the council.

However, that transfer was subject to all 'third party interests' - including the right of Mr Hunt and his mother to seek a court order vesting title to the pier in one or both of them.

Such applications were duly made but were dismissed at Cardiff County Court last year by Judge Jarman QC, who found that ownership had legitimately been transferred to the council.

However, in a ruling which throws the future of the pier back up into the air, Sir William's today pinpointed legal errors in the judge's decision and directed a fresh hearing of Mr Hunt's bid to have the pier vested in him.

Central to Mr Hunt's case is his argument that he still owns a 'dwelling' on the pier, which he has been unable to access since the council fenced it off, and that means ownership of the property was never validly transferred to the council.

Mr Hunt earlier told the court: "I am locked out - the council changed the locks and put a fence up. I can't go to collect my post and my car is still on the pier."

Gloria Hunt also argues she is entitled to a beneficial interest in the pier, having given her son half of the money used to buy it.

Council lawyers described the 'dangerous' structure as in a 'crumbling' state and said that a bid to secure lottery funding for its renovation had so far been unsuccessful because of the ongoing row with Mr Hunt and his mother.

However, Mr Hunt contended he had suggested working with the council in the past to secure funding, and said Conwy hadn't done any work to make the pier safe.

Overturning Judge Jarman's ruling, and directing a reconsideration of the case at the county court, Sir William said the judge had not adequately dealt with Mr Hunt's plea that the propertly should be vested in him as the occupier of a 'dwelling house' on the pier.

The judge intervened despite council arguments that Mr Hunt's alleged home on the pier is 'no longer fit for human habitation' and of 'no practical benefit' to him.

No date was set for the re-hearing of the dispute at the county court

 Mr Hunt said he feels vindicated and urged the council to re-open negotiations with him to thrash out a way forward.

 He said: “I have been saying it for five years ‘I have always said ‘talk to me’.

 He added: “I will not stop. I will not go away.”

 Meanwhile, Clwyd West MP David Jones is worried the Colwyn Bay Victoria pier ownership saga will now go on even longer.

 He said: “The court’s decision means that the issue of ownership of the pier will not be cleared up for several months and the judge’s remarks clearly indicate that Mr Hunt has at least a strong arguable case.

 “The condition of the pier is continuing to deteriorate and now looks even worse after the completion of Porth Eirias and the laying of the new beach.

 “I would strongly urge the council ‘’Don’t simply let the legal proceses take their course but take on board the judge’s comments and consider negotiating with Mr Hunt’ .”

 He added: “The saga of the pier has been nothing short of disastrous for Colwyn Bay and the county of Conwy.

 “It is the latest in a seriies of issues that must give cause for concern about the council management  of its affairs. I’m thinking of Maesdu Road Bridge, Home to School Transport contract and Forces for Good (grant) scandal.

 “Nodbody ever seems to accept political responsibility for these disasters. I would suggest that those in political charge of the council should consider their position. Certainly in similar cases at a  Whitehall level, resignations would have been offered.”

 Conwy Council has not yet responded to the High Court ruling.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 08, 2013, 02:32:44 PM
And so it all drags on..

When you think of all the work Mr. Paxman did to renovate the Pier, and its now in a worse state than ever thanks to this clown.  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on May 08, 2013, 03:08:24 PM
It means the heritage fund won't even concider the application now at all.
Thats another 6-12 month delay before an actual court decission and then a re application and that is if anybody is willing to pay the thousands of pounds to make it and by that point..... well done 'thick cut'
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Linda on May 08, 2013, 07:09:33 PM
It is disgraceful how this has been left. As i was down there today i couldnt actually see anything to stop people from walking under the
Pier. Will someone be badly hurt or worse with any falling debris before SOMEBODY does something to it. That usually happens then uproar all round. &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SCMP on May 08, 2013, 10:15:47 PM
The problem being is that the pressure group and shorething have been jumping through the hoops for the past three years whilst Hunt keeps dragging this on, appeal after appeal, but after today having his appeals for ownership and his mothers appeal all dismissed and only now his squat dwelling in question then maybe something CAN be done about it.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on May 09, 2013, 07:11:41 PM
I've been following this saga since 2008, but I'm still not sure who to believe on certain points (both parties seem at fault, and both are obviously spinning the story in their favour).

Strong words from Clwyd West MP David Jones:

"It is the latest in a series of issues that must give cause for concern about the council management of its affairs. [...] Nobody ever seems to accept political responsibility for these disasters. I would suggest that those in political charge of the council should consider their position. Certainly in similar cases at a Whitehall level, resignations would have been offered."

Very impressed by the Victoria Pier Pressure Group (VPPG), though. (Btw, today VPPG tweeted: "I wouldnt beleive everything you read in the papers, things are actually looking rosey and very much possible"). https://twitter.com/VictoriaPierPG
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on May 10, 2013, 09:18:37 PM
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It is disgraceful how this has been left. As i was down there today i couldnt actually see anything to stop people from walking under the
Pier. Will someone be badly hurt or worse with any falling debris before SOMEBODY does something to it. That usually happens then uproar all round. &shake&

I have reported this to the Council, and emphasised that it was urgent in the interest of Public Safety, but they haven't done anything et. I have also told David Jones MP and advised the Press. They fenced it off originally following warnings from the Town Council. No doubyt they will say that the prom area is fenced off, but that's not much help to the people who walk straight through on the actual beach.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Linda on May 10, 2013, 09:34:47 PM
Your so right Viv, I havent noticed any fencing off as yet and there are pieces of metal hanging off the pier. So dangerous! and yet further near Old Colwyn the contractors/council have closed off steps that really arent that bad down to the beach there. So its a sham to leave
the pier area open when something could fall off that and literally kill someone God forbid.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 21, 2013, 08:40:50 PM
A friend of mine has done some great aerial footage of the Pier:
Colwyn Bay pier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxOdKBwTEoY#ws)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on May 21, 2013, 08:59:20 PM
Brilliant. What  did he take it from?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on May 21, 2013, 11:52:12 PM
I couldn't see his car on the Pier!!!!!

I'm sure he had put on his Victoria Pier site something about where he was living  -the other address that he says the council should have sent his bill to - Lansdowne Road or Coed Pella Rd or thereabouts - so he wasn't living on the pier then!!I'll have another look, but it is like wading through treacle!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: romanjohn on May 21, 2013, 11:56:11 PM
Seeing the prop blades  R/C helicoptor with camera.maybe. but great pics romanjohn.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 22, 2013, 12:40:34 AM
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A friend of mine has done some great aerial footage of the Pier:
Colwyn Bay pier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxOdKBwTEoY#ws)

A superb little video.... but what's with the sinister music?

It just shows how badly run down Steve Hunt allowed that monument to become.  A crying shame.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 22, 2013, 06:48:07 AM
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I couldn't see his car on the Pier!!!!!

I was told on Saturday that it is a Jaguar car, just behind one of the doors and sadly covered in droppings. Not a good end for a Jaguar!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on May 22, 2013, 08:22:30 PM
Hope he's done a SORN ! He can always sell it to pay the court costs.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on May 23, 2013, 11:23:44 AM
Incidentally, there are interesting parallels between Hastings & Colwyn Bay piers. Both have troubled pasts in terms of ownership disputes, lack of council support, lack of insurance, etc: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8433906.Was_Hastings_Pier_insured_/ (http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8433906.Was_Hastings_Pier_insured_/)

Most of Hastings pier (95% of structure) was damaged by fire. It's in a worse state that Colwyn Bay pier. Neverthelesss, £11.4 million in lottery funding has been awarded towards the £13.9 million total cost of rebuilding work: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10325768.Repairs_for_damaged_Sussex_pier_are_on_their_way/ (http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10325768.Repairs_for_damaged_Sussex_pier_are_on_their_way/)

There are only 58 surviving Victorian piers. They are iconic structures which form part of a town's identity. Any serious long-term view would wish to preserve them, as a priority.
Title: Colwyn Bay Pier lottery grant boosts restoration plans
Post by: Bri Roberts on May 24, 2013, 07:40:54 AM
Plans to restore a Grade II listed pier in north Wales have been boosted with a heritage lottery grant of nearly £600,000.

The money will be used by Conwy council to develop plans to restore Victoria Pier in Colwyn Bay to its former glory.

It is part of a wider £56m regeneration scheme in the town.

Ownership of the pier has been in dispute with a former owner fighting to get it back from the council.

The Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) grant announced on Friday will be used to develop plans including a restoration of the pier's Art Deco pavilion.

“The pier not only sits in the heart of Colwyn Bay but also holds a prominent position in the resort's history and that of Welsh seaside architecture”

In its heyday the pavilion hosted performances ranging from comedians Morecambe and Wise and Harry Secombe to musician Elvis Costello.

Community support

It has been closed to the public since 2008 and is described as being in a "critical condition".
Manon Williams, chair of HLF in Wales, said: "The pier not only sits in the heart of Colwyn Bay but also holds a prominent position in the resort's history and that of Welsh seaside architecture.

"The project, which is integral to the regeneration of Colwyn Bay, has strong support from the community with significant opportunities for job creation, training and volunteering and would provide a significant boost for the local economy."

The grant of £594,900 will also allow the council to apply for more funding from HLF in order to bid for the full award of £4,379,600 to complete the scheme.

Councillor Mike Priestley, chair of the Pier Project Board, said the support of HLF was a "major step forward for the future of the pier and the potential it has to contribute to the regeneration of Colwyn Bay waterfront and the wider community".

If the second round of grant applications is successful Conwy council plans to hand over the management of the restored pier to a community company called Colwyn Bay Shore Thing Ltd.

It is hoped that project will then attract a team of 100 volunteers to take part in the management of the pier.

Earlier this month former pier owner Steve Hunt claimed a legal victory after a high court judge ruled that part of a court case brought by him must be heard again before ownership can be settled.

At the time Conwy council, which signed a deal to buy the pier in 2012, said it was pleased that other parts of his claims were rejected.

Mr Hunt previously owned the pier but was made bankrupt in 2008.

It followed a dispute over £5,144.88 in unpaid council tax and business rates.
Title: Re: Colwyn Bay Pier lottery grant boosts restoration plans
Post by: BMD on May 24, 2013, 11:21:16 AM
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Plans to restore a Grade II listed pier in north Wales have been boosted with a heritage lottery grant of nearly £600,000.

The money will be used by Conwy council to develop plans to restore Victoria Pier in Colwyn Bay to its former glory.

Great news. To quote the Heritage Lottery Fund's chairperson (for Wales):

"The pier not only sits in the heart of Colwyn Bay but also holds a prominent position in the resort's history and that of Welsh seaside architecture. The project, which is integral to the regeneration of Colwyn Bay, has strong support from the community with significant opportunities for job creation, training and volunteering and would provide a significant boost for the local economy."

That's basically the go-ahead. The second stage is to submit detailed plans for the remainder of the £5 million grant.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/13658-pier-restoration-fund-given-lottery-boost.html (http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/13658-pier-restoration-fund-given-lottery-boost.html)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-22644808 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-22644808)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on May 24, 2013, 12:12:57 PM
Btw, the Victoria Pier Pressure Group updates its Twitter account more frequently than its website, so I recommend following them (if you use Twitter at all): https://twitter.com/VictoriaPierPG
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on May 24, 2013, 12:39:02 PM
More press coverage of the successful first-stage lottery grant for Colwyn Bay pier:

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/600k-boost-restoration-colwyn-bay-4010605 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/600k-boost-restoration-colwyn-bay-4010605)
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-05-24/grant-for-historic-pier/ (http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-05-24/grant-for-historic-pier/)
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/123003/heritage-lottery-fund-approves-first-round-fund-for-council-plans-for-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/123003/heritage-lottery-fund-approves-first-round-fund-for-council-plans-for-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 28, 2013, 11:44:35 PM
Here's a little tongue-twister for you to practise.
The faster you go, the more points I shall award.

OLD MRS HUNT HAD A ROUGH-CUT PUNT,
NOT A PUNT CUT ROUGH,
BUT A ROUGH CUT PUNT.

Go for it!



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 28, 2013, 08:29:22 AM
Inside of former Bar area on Pier, courtesy of Victoria Pier Pressure Group. Fantastic views!

https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPierPressureGroup (https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPierPressureGroup)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on June 28, 2013, 09:40:30 AM
If only.....
If only there were places to sit and have a drink and/or a meal with a view like that in the area.
It is so sad that such a chance has been missed at Porth Eirias.
I am sure I am not alone in craving a view of the sea when I visit a seaside place for a meal and a drink. It is what going to the seaside is all about.
In Llandudno there are only really the hotels to frequent but even then the view is spoilt by the road.
 :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 15, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
Good news for Hastings Pier, lets have the same here please!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23699453 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23699453)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on August 15, 2013, 07:45:53 AM
Quote
I am sure I am not alone in craving a view of the sea when I visit a seaside place for a meal and a drink. It is what going to the seaside is all about.

Absolutely. Platform 3, in Colwyn Bay, was a brave attempt to do that, too; for a while you could have a drink or nibbles sitting in front of big windows that overlooked the p[ier and prom.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on September 04, 2013, 03:21:09 PM
Another grant awarded to funding the development phase of the pier (£20,000 - this time from the council):

“With the commitment from both county and town council, together with Shore Thing and Victoria Pier Pressure Group, the future of the pier has never looked brighter.”

http://www.newsnorthwales.co.uk/news/126162/bay-town-council-votes-to-support-pier-with-20-000-grant.aspx (http://www.newsnorthwales.co.uk/news/126162/bay-town-council-votes-to-support-pier-with-20-000-grant.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 06, 2013, 08:30:41 AM
I find it a bit disturbing that forecast costs for the Pier renovation are spiralling out of control. Initially, a figure of around £5m was mentioned for refurbishment of the structure and buildings, this has now increased to '£12-15m' - how can it have trebled in little more than a year?

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-approves-20000-grant-assess-5843487 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-approves-20000-grant-assess-5843487)

The article has a great aerial photo of the Pier in its present state:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on September 06, 2013, 08:48:36 AM
Quote
Initially, a figure of around £5m was mentioned for refurbishment of the structure and buildings, this has now increased to '£12-15m' - how can it have trebled in little more than a year?

Obviously they're using the approved Government estimation calculator. You know, 'Think of a number, double it, add 5,000,000..."
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on September 06, 2013, 12:12:30 PM
I think I recall that the high estimates (eg £12m) were originally for the option that included rebuilding the pavilion, etc, not just a basic renovation (which was the £5m option?). But the Daily Post article doesn't confirm whether this is the case (or whether there's been a recent hike in the estimates). In fact, the source for that Daily Post piece seems to be someone who is bitterly opposed to renovating the pier - the whole article is slanted that way.

For example, the second part of the following claim seems to contradict everything I've heard:

"The work is necessary in order to find out exactly what can be done with the structure – if it can be redeveloped or if it’s best for demolition."

I thought we were well past that point. It's been established by a structural survey that it CAN be redeveloped. And overwhelming public consensus (and lottery grant, etc) favours renovation, not demolition. So why is this person trying to rewrite history and put the idea of demolition back into people's minds via the press?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 06, 2013, 12:30:08 PM
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. So why is this person trying to rewrite history and put the idea of demolition back into people's minds via the press?

Probably a fan of the Skip!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on September 06, 2013, 05:20:26 PM
I can't find a reference to those higher estimates I thought I'd seen.

The original 'Colwyn Bay Pier Task & Finish Group' minutes (Dec 2010) give these estimates:

Basic "board walk" pier: £3,528,416
Pier plus "basic pavilion": £5,456,536

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/62501/response/160207/attach/html/9/Minutes%207%20Oct%20and%202%20Dec%202010.pdf.html (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/62501/response/160207/attach/html/9/Minutes%207%20Oct%20and%202%20Dec%202010.pdf.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 06, 2013, 06:20:06 PM
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the second part of the following claim seems to contradict everything I've heard:

"The work is necessary in order to find out exactly what can be done with the structure – if it can be redeveloped or if it’s best for demolition."
Exactly, £900,000 to find out whether to keep it or demolish it - totally and utterly ridiculous. Someone is lining their pockets here, without a doubt. The question is...who?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 06, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
Well, you can rule out Steve Hunt.

But seriously, these sums of money are utterly ridiculous.  It seems like a concerted effort, (possibly political) to ensure that the project is abandoned as being financially non-viable.
It can't possibly proceed with financial requirements like that.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 09, 2013, 09:25:14 AM
Colwyn Bay's Victorian Pier may be knocked down
8 Dec 2013 13:38
£15m would be needed to restore the historic structure, left derelict since 2008


 About £15m is needed to restore the crumbling Victoria Pier, which dates back to 1900, to it’s former glory.

 But now, for the first time, councillors are to discuss the option of whether to demolish it once and for all.

 A report due to be discussed this week says demolishing the pier would cost Conwy County Council nearly £1m.

 Another option among six put forward is to turn it into a boardwalk.

 The authority is currently spending £53,000 a year maintaining the Grade 2 listed structure which has been derelict since 2008.

 Conwy County Borough Council has been trying to raise millions to restore it, since taking over ownership last year.

  The six options to be discussed by the Full Council on Thursday are:

- Seek de-listing and demolish entire pier

- Removal of both pavilions and end of pier and renovate a pier boardwalk

- Renovate boardwalk and redevelop main pavilion

- Redevelopment and refurbishment of entire pier

- Renovate boardwalk plus “concession units” in the entrance

- Do nothing

 A Heritage Lottery Fund application for £4.37m is currently in the second stage but the council would still have to find £11m from other sources including close to £4m from EU funding and £4m from community grant funds for renovation.

 In the latest report to councillors, concerns are raised about funding, interim management and the capacity of Colwyn Bay Shore Thing, a community enterprise, to run the pier if it was renovated.

 David Jones, Secretary of State for Wales and MP for Clwyd West, has called the prospect of demolition “a great shame”.

 He said: “The cost of the pier restoration was about £10m three or four years ago. The thing that grieves me is that the delay has pushed the cost up to where I think the only real option is for demolition.

 “I’m pretty sure the council will resolve to have it demolished which is a great shame and a great pity. The cost to the tax payer of Conwy for renovation would be substantial.

 “At the minute it is a blot on the landscape of the magnificent North Wales coast.”

 He added: “Whatever happens to the pier I will be ensuring the murals by Eric Ravilious are saved. They need to be rescued.

 “It would be a national shame if they were destroyed, Eric Ravilious is a world renowned artist and I believe these are the last murals discovered.”

 Gary Willetts, who is assisting Steve Hunt, former owner of the pier who is  challenging Conwy council’s ownership in court saying it still belongs to him, thinks the decision is inevitable.

 He claimed: “It’s obvious now reading this report that the council have misled the people of Conwy and Colwyn Bay in particular.

 “Demolition has always been on the cards and now they are admitting it. They have also said in the report how they’ve lost faith with Shore Thing.

 “The money just isn’t there and they want to demolish the pier.”

 Darren Millar AM said if a financial future could not be found the community faced “the unhappy prospect of the pier coming down”.

 He said: “It’s a carbuncle along the coast we need to sort out. I am finding it more and more difficult to see how a project can not only restore the pier but make it sustainable thereafter.”

 No-one at Conwy council was available to comment.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bays-victoria-pier-knocked-6383670 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bays-victoria-pier-knocked-6383670)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 09, 2013, 09:43:01 AM
A breakdown of the various options for the Pier and their costings can be seen here:
http://tinyurl.com/qb73fac (http://tinyurl.com/qb73fac)

In my view, Option 3 (Removal of end of the pier structure, demolition of Pavilion 1 and refurbishment  of Pavilion 2 and pier structure - costed at £8.9m) might be a cheaper way of retaining the Pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 09, 2013, 03:38:42 PM
Having had a look at all the figures, I wonder if it is indeed worth keeping the Pier.  In my opinion the money would be better invested in a land-based all weather attraction that could be used throughout the whole year.  The vagaries of the UK weather limit the amount of use one can achieve from refurbishing this rotting structure.
 ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on December 09, 2013, 04:58:22 PM
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Having had a look at all the figures, I wonder if it is indeed worth keeping the Pier.  In my opinion the money would be better invested in a land-based all weather attraction that could be used throughout the whole year.  The vagaries of the UK weather limit the amount of use one can achieve from refurbishing this rotting structure.
 ZXZ

By that logic we should demolish Alton Towers, legoland and thousands of other attractions that are limited by weather in this country. I also think opening pretty much anything in Colwyn Bay during the winter would be a loss making bonanza, just walk down the high street on a Sunday and you'll see what a terrible ghost town it really is. (Least they have trains going there though unlike Llandudno!)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 09, 2013, 05:09:55 PM
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Having had a look at all the figures, I wonder if it is indeed worth keeping the Pier.  In my opinion the money would be better invested in a land-based all weather attraction that could be used throughout the whole year.  The vagaries of the UK weather limit the amount of use one can achieve from refurbishing this rotting structure.
 ZXZ

By that logic we should demolish Alton Towers, legoland and thousands of other attractions that are limited by weather in this country. I also think opening pretty much anything in Colwyn Bay during the winter would be a loss making bonanza, just walk down the high street on a Sunday and you'll see what a terrible ghost town it really is. (Least they have trains going there though unlike Llandudno!)

'Twas only a thought!  Rhyl has done OK from the Sun Centre!   _))*

I take it you have some ideas, let's hear them!   L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Minime on December 09, 2013, 07:31:43 PM
I thought steve hunt won last round in court so it was all still ongoing?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 10, 2013, 11:56:36 PM
I'm mystified by this article.

The last I heard, ownership was officially handed over to CCBC (rightly or wrongly) and they were looking forward with great excitement to working with Shore Thing and Pier Pressure Group, to finally get renovation under way.
Gaining 'clean title' to the pier was sen as the last hurdle.

Now, it is almost inevitably going to be demolished.

Where has all that motivation, that exuberance and that positivity gone?
I thought there were many hundreds, if not into the thousands of people trying to get in to packed meetings to save the pier?

It appears that the impetus has waned, fizzled out....?  Or was there never any real momentum, no vision or perhaps leadership to get anything done at all?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 11, 2013, 08:23:05 AM
 I suspect that with the building of the white elephant skip, the plan all along was to demolish the pier. They just needed to manipulate the figures to make it seem that the only sensible plan is demolition! I still believe that the money wasted on the skip should have been spent on the pier! All very wrong!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 11, 2013, 08:54:34 AM
You could well be right, ME. For a long time, the renovation of the Pier was costed at around £5m. In the last couple of months, that figure has ballooned to £16m.

I'm still hopeful that a cheaper compromise, involving keeping most of the structure, can be found.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 12, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
There's currently a Council meeting taking place to decide the future of the Pier. I shall let you know the outcome.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 12, 2013, 12:09:59 PM
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I suspect that with the building of the white elephant skip, the plan all along was to demolish the pier. They just needed to manipulate the figures to make it seem that the only sensible plan is demolition! I still believe that the money wasted on the skip should have been spent on the pier! All very wrong!  &shake&

Certainly, a "hard core" of councillors has been pushing for demolition for years (dating back to when the pier was in a much better condition). It's always puzzled me - why so keen on getting rid of unique, potentially wonderful heritage? (Only 58 surviving piers in Britain).

And whenever the argument turns to cost, all the other recent huge costs (zinc skip, anyone?) are conveniently forgotten.

And the rapidly alternating media story: lottery grant, demolition, lottery grant, demolition. It could be comical, but I find it sad - the wasted opportunities & lack of vision. The narrow bureaucratic mindset apparently triumphing once again over optimism.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 12, 2013, 12:32:28 PM
The Council have voted to demolish Colwyn Bay Pier, which is very sad news, I think.

Who will be paying the £1,000,000 cost of demolition?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 12, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
Dwsi has kindly created this timeline of events at the Council Meeting this morning:
https://twitter.com/djones7774/timelines/411106834825478144
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 12, 2013, 01:04:49 PM
Certainly a sad day but at least the end of years of uncertainty.  The Council now have an opportunity to do something positive and create another attraction that will serve both visitors and the local community alike.  Or as is more likely, build another skip.    ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on December 12, 2013, 01:33:45 PM
The councillors who voted for demolishing the pier should be named and shamed.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 12, 2013, 01:43:02 PM
Awful news! Looks like the decision is being opposed and it is grade 2 listed! Seems the Victorians built great structures and our generation let's them be demolished!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on December 12, 2013, 01:48:53 PM
COUNCILLORS VOTE TO DEMOLISH COLWYN BAY PIER


By DAVID POWELL DAILY POST

COUNCILLORS have voted to demolish Colwyn Bay’s 113-year-old Grade II-listed pier - but questions remain over its ownership and how long it would take Cadw to remove its listed building status.
In a passionate, two-hour debate, Conwy Councillors heard from officers that funding towards its £15,269,902 restoration from the Welsh Government and European Union would be harder to find than in previous years.
In addition, Conwy will need to save £14.6m next year and £12.2m the following year.
Cllr Dave Cowans said it would be a “massive risk” to take on the long term future of the pier, currently costing the authority £53,000 a year to maintain.
The councillors voted by a majority for Option One, out of six choices, which stated: “Seek de-listing and demolish the entire pier”.
But afterwards businesman Steve Hunt called the proceedings “farcical” because he believes a Cardiff county court case in May or June will uphold his ownership of the Victorian pier, built in 1900.
He said: “It’s farcical. The only people who say Conwy Council owns the pier are Conwy Council. They think if they keep repeating it people will believe it.”
He also said: “They can’t demolish a listed building.”
Mr Hunt, who had joined about 20 Save The Pier supporters and residents in the public gallery, wore a black denim jacket with the words “The Nightmare Before Christmas” in red stitching on it.
Also outside the council chamber in Bodlondeb, pier group campaigner Gavin Davies, Shore Thing Ltd director, said: “We urge the public to go back and lobby their councillors to get this (demolition) decision reversed due to the fact there’s a lot of funding options out there. We can prove to Cadw it’s savable.”
He said that Hastings pier in East Sussex, built in 1872, was an example of how a heritage structure could be restored successfully.
On Conwy’s decision, he said: “They’re rushing things. Colwyn Bay pier has stood since 1900. We had one of the worst storms in years last week and it’s still there.”
Earlier in the debate, Cllr Ronnie Hughes had said: “This authority at the moment cannot afford to put a penny into capital projects. Sometimes it’s better to pull out now and not mislead people than to say to the Heritage Lottery Fund we’ve not got the funds. That would be morally wrong.”
Cllr Brian Cossey said Conwy was in a “cleft stick” and it would be difficult to vote to demolish something which had beeen in his “back garden” for 60 years.
And he said: “If we try to have the property delisted I’m sure Shore Thing and other people will object.”
But Sasha Davies, Conwy’s strategic director - economy and place, said trying to restore it would be financially risky.
She said: “If all the funding was in place, once the restoration was done we would hand over operations of the pier to Shore Thing. But under the terms of the draft lease if Shore Thing couldn’t finance the pier that would be handed back to the council. That’s a significant risk for the authority.”
She said £37m is already going to Colwyn Bay’s waterfront and it is “very unfortunate” to have an “eyesore” close to Porth Eirias.
But she said £311,000 would be needed by Shore Thing towards any £15m pier project.
Shore Thing recently raised £2,000 in three weeks from supporters.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 12, 2013, 01:55:13 PM
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Awful news! Looks like the decision is being opposed and it is grade 2 listed! Seems the Victorians built great structures and our generation let's them be demolished!  &shake&

A council that won't permit listed-building windows to be replaced by UPVC.

But a council that permits a Victorian pier to be replaced by the world's most expensive skip.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on December 12, 2013, 02:00:23 PM
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/129153/update-conwy-councillors-vote-to-de-list-and-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/129153/update-conwy-councillors-vote-to-de-list-and-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)

Conwy councillors vote to de-list and demolish Colwyn Bay pier
Published date: 12 December 2013 | Published by: Iwan Berry

 
THE FUTURE of Colwyn Bay pier was dealt a heavy blow this afternoon, after members of Conwy County Borough Council voted to pursue the de-listing and demolition of the Grade II listed building.

In a dramatic meeting at council headquarters at Bodlondeb, a majority of council members voted to de-list and demolish the Victoria Pier.


The option of demolition  - one of six in a council report put to members - was proposed by Cllr Goronwy Edwards, who said any cost of keeping the pier would be "unsustainable", and having a continued eyesore on the front could put the regeneration of the town into question.

Cllr William Knightly said the council could not afford to spend money on "white elephants" - least of all in the context of a suggested five per cent rise in Council Tax.

Cllr Brian Cossey raised the fact that members did not know how much de-listing and demolition would cost; and also the possible opposition such a move could face from Cadw and Shore Thing.

Cllr Cossey proposed that councillors defer the decision until costs for demolition could be put together - but this was rejected at the final vote.

Other options proposed included outright redevelopment of the pier, as per a submission with the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF); and creating a number of "concession units" on the boardwalk.

But these were not enough to win the day, with a majority of councillors voting to demolish the pier.

Cllr Chris Hughes, a representative of the Glyn Ward in Colwyn Bay, said after the decision was made that he "felt numb".

He said: "I don't know what to say. It's a sad day. Demolition is the one decision that didn't seem to stand up. We don't know how long it's going to take, nor what the costs are going to be."

He added: "Shore Thing will continue to fight any move towards demolition and they have my full support in that."

Steve Hunt, who is in an ongoing legal battle with the council over ownership of the pier, said he was "not at all concerned" by the decision, and he would continue to pursue ownership in the courts.


Isn't the skip next door a "white elephant"?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 12, 2013, 03:19:42 PM
I see that in the Daily Post's online poll, an overwhelmingly majority (75%) of people chose renovation (50% for the boardwalk option at £3.7m, and 25% for the £9m option with restored pavilion).

(http://i44.tinypic.com/kedr82.jpg)

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bays-victoria-pier-knocked-6383670 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bays-victoria-pier-knocked-6383670)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Gaylord Screwsby on December 12, 2013, 07:25:16 PM
Disgraceful decision.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 12, 2013, 07:30:29 PM
When oh when will politicians realise that they are public SERVANTS, and are elected to implement the wishes of those who voted for them.... NOT to simply ride roughshod over public opinion when things get too complicated for them.

They have spent millions creating a new eyesore that no one asked for,  instead of spending that same money on restoring an eyesore that the majority wanted to keep.   How can this come about?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 12, 2013, 08:10:02 PM
Because they are a group of village idiots?  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 12, 2013, 08:50:33 PM
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When oh when will politicians realise that they are public SERVANTS, and are elected to implement the wishes of those who voted for them.... NOT to simply ride roughshod over public opinion when things get too complicated for them.

They have spent millions creating a new eyesore that no one asked for,  instead of spending that same money on restoring an eyesore that the majority wanted to keep.   How can this come about?

Perhaps, just perhaps, the Councillors have taken opinions of the electorate and the decision they made is based on the view of the majority!  Or should there be a local Referendum?   WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 12, 2013, 09:16:39 PM
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Perhaps, just perhaps, the Councillors have taken opinions of the electorate
Keep the jokes coming Yorkie, that's a goodun.  _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 12, 2013, 09:36:00 PM
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Perhaps, just perhaps, the Councillors have taken opinions of the electorate
Keep the jokes coming Yorkie, that's a goodun.  _))*

I'll stick with the village idiot theory!  :laugh:  they spent millions creating an unwanted giant skip which seems like it can never make money, to cater for a few jet skiers?  Then they say there is no money for the pier and seem to get ever increasing estimates to rebuild the pier to justify their case. All very strange!  $angry$ 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on December 13, 2013, 07:54:15 AM
Quote
I'll stick with the village idiot theory!

I'm not sure they're all idiots - although some undoubtedly are. Much more the case as with all council issues of this magnitude that it's a combination of factors which might include:

   1. Incompetence
   2. Selfishness
   3. lack of intelligence
   4. lack of foresight
   5. lack of education
   6. lack of awareness
   7. lack of courage
   8. the Martyr complex
   
County Councillors ought to be selfless individuals whose sole aim in life is to serve the community to the best of their ability. Fairy stories aside, however, in the real world they seek election for a variety of motives, none of which could even charitably be described as 'selfless'.

But even worse is what happens when they're elected. Many become so self-absorbed and so utterly convinced by their own rhetoric that they assume god-like status in their own minds and make pronouncements which they convince themselves are 'just' based on their own perceived infallibility.

That caricature doesn't apply to all, of course; but it does to a huge number and this blatant self-righteousness, combined with the obsessive desire to shield themselves from legitimate scrutiny leaves us with a ropey crew at best, and potential dereliction at worst.

Here's a challenge: why has no councillor ever contributed on the most significant forum in the area in its existence?  Perhaps they're scared (No. 7 on the list) or perhaps they don't know how (No.s 1 & 6). Well, here's a promise:  we will provide a board in here (like PC Mike Smith used to have) where the Councillor can act as a moderator and openly debate questions that arise. 

All they have to do is ask.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on December 13, 2013, 07:57:59 AM
So sad about the apathy.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 13, 2013, 09:18:42 AM
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Perhaps, just perhaps, the Councillors have taken opinions of the electorate
Keep the jokes coming Yorkie, that's a goodun.  _))*

Actually, i was doing a Kenny Everet and being "quite serious"!    WWW WWW WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 13, 2013, 10:10:49 AM
Preserving the basic pier would cost £2.7m more than demolishing it. Not much in the overall scheme of things for preserving a piece of heritage. Ongoing maintenance costs, yes. But nearly everything has those - why don't Porth Eirias's high running costs also scare the council?

Valid or not, the £15m estimate apparently frightened people. It's £6m higher than the £9m estimate for pier + pavilion. And £11.3 higher than preserving the basic pier. So, these "bells & whistles" additions are estimated at costing *far* more than the pier structure itself.

Darren Millar has written: "Colwyn Bay is a town on the up and the dilapidated pier has been a distraction from the improvements being made in the town for far too long." So, the matter of preserving a piece of Victorian history - one of only 58 surviving piers - is a "distraction" for Millar? I think that says a lot about how this issue has been addressed.
http://www.darrenmillaram.com/news/councillors-vote-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier (http://www.darrenmillaram.com/news/councillors-vote-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Tosh on December 13, 2013, 10:27:43 AM
Perhaps if we had all shown a bit more enthusiasm when Steve owned it, things might have turned out differently.
Perhaps if the money sources had divvied up when Steve owned it, things might have turned out differently.
Perhaps if CBC had not persecuted Steve over a piddling amount of debt, things might have turned out differently.
No, I am not a friend nor am I related to Steve.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: cygnusx-1 on December 13, 2013, 03:28:37 PM
The numbers of people wanting to save the pier these days should declare the last time they last used the pier and spent money there.
I am 52 and last used the facilities on a regular basis from 1978 to about 1982 when bands such as Slade, The Buzzcocks, The Enid, Magnum were in attendance in the Dixieland Showbar.
 
When Hutchinson Leisure took over it was the start of the end as the The Rhos Abbey, The Clarence Hotel and various cinemas were all in the same group and we are all still going to all of them on a regular basis!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 13, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
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I am 52 and last used the facilities on a regular basis from 1978 to about 1982 when bands such as Slade, The Buzzcocks, The Enid, Magnum were in attendance in the Dixieland Showbar.
 

Ahem, it should be upgraded to GRADE ONE listed status, if only because the mighty MOTORHEAD played there in 1976!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 13, 2013, 07:10:54 PM
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The numbers of people wanting to save the pier these days should declare the last time they last used the pier and spent money there.
I am 52 and last used the facilities on a regular basis from 1978 to about 1982 when bands such as Slade, The Buzzcocks, The Enid, Magnum were in attendance in the Dixieland Showbar.
 
When Hutchinson Leisure took over it was the start of the end as the The Rhos Abbey, The Clarence Hotel and various cinemas were all in the same group and we are all still going to all of them on a regular basis!!
I was there practically every week (including the final week) whilst it was open under Hunt's ownership, as I wanted to support the Pier. However, the businesses on the pier were not well run and even I felt at times that my custom was not appreciated.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on December 14, 2013, 12:10:55 PM
They didn't appreciate your custom? The acknowledged premier coffee drinker in the area
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 14, 2013, 01:28:55 PM
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They didn't appreciate your custom? The acknowledged premier coffee drinker in the area
*takes a bow*  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 15, 2013, 04:09:43 PM
A local planning Consultant has produced this excellent analysis of the legal situation surrounding Colwyn Bay Pier. It would seem that the decision taken to demolish the Pier is pointless, as there is very little chance that it can be de-listed to allow the demolition! All the reasons given for the HLF grant application about how the Pier is so important are now the very same same reasons that mean it cannot be de-listed. Conwy's Councilors have not shot themselves in the foot here; but more in the head....

Well worth a read:
http://plplanningnews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier.html (http://plplanningnews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 15, 2013, 05:24:02 PM
Very interesting! Seems that the council has no idea what they are doing?  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 15, 2013, 05:28:00 PM
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Very interesting! Seems that the council has no idea what they are doing?  &shake&

Not so different from normal then?    _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Mikethewatch on December 15, 2013, 08:11:37 PM
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Very interesting! Seems that the council has no idea what they are doing?  &shake&
Why does that come as absolutely no surprise, bunch of incompetents.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 15, 2013, 08:40:09 PM
It was no surprise to me at all, I still stick with my 'Village idiots' theory!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 15, 2013, 08:43:40 PM
Very interesting, DaveR, thanks.

"As a ball park we would imagine maybe £250k budget for an LBC application, public inquiry, judicial review/appeals and perhaps another 2 years of uncertainty before a decision is resolved. And quite how, given the evidence of suitable alternatives and interests will the tests for demolition be met? The bar is very high and we don't think the Council has realised yet."

So, a long, drawn-out process (years) - even to get to a stage where demolition can be considered.

So much for the "argument" for demolition on the basis that it gets rid of "uncertainty", or that it's the quickest/easiest way to deal with the problem.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 16, 2013, 09:02:53 AM
The Council may now be in the position where they have to serve a Section 215 Notice upon themselves.  :laugh:

http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html (http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 16, 2013, 09:56:20 AM
Here's a new petition for overturning the demolition vote: www.change.org/petitions/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it (http://www.change.org/petitions/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it)

Several hundred signatures already.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 16, 2013, 10:06:29 AM
429 signatures already, that's a decent response.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 16, 2013, 10:25:36 AM
I've signed it already, saw it on Facebook! When the Council are dishing out the Section 215 notices I hope they remember the Pier Pavillion site!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 17, 2013, 09:03:13 AM
I've had a look at the documents released by the council on the pier vote (cost estimates, etc). As a result, I've written this BLOG post:

'Town rejects council’s vote to demolish pier'
http://colwynbay.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/pier-demolition/ (http://colwynbay.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/pier-demolition/)

Please give it a read if you have the time. Thanks...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 17, 2013, 09:19:03 AM
Excellent Blog Post, BMD.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 17, 2013, 09:48:34 AM
Yes BMD very good, I think that having built the skip they do not want any possible competition from the pier, assuming the bistro ever happens that is!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 17, 2013, 09:55:30 AM
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Yes BMD very good, I think that having built the skip they do not want any possible competition from the pier, assuming the bistro ever happens that is!
I think you're right, ME.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 17, 2013, 10:01:35 AM
Was just having a chuckle at the Twitter account for Porth Eirias:
https://twitter.com/PorthEirias
...which hasn't been updated since the 8th October, btw.

According to the description:
"Colwyn Bay Watersports Centre incorporating a cafe, bisto, retail unit, learning zone, workshop and changing facilities."

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 17, 2013, 01:01:51 PM
Brilliant!  _))* a cafe and a Bisto, ideal! Probably more chance of the Bisto being in there than a bistro!  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 17, 2013, 02:01:10 PM
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Brilliant!  _))* a cafe and a Bisto, ideal! Probably more chance of the Bisto being in there than a bistro!  :laugh:

What?  You mean a lot of the BROWN stuff?  More than likely! _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 17, 2013, 02:44:42 PM
 $fan$ $fan$ $fan$. Already has in the council !  L0L
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on December 17, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
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The Council may now be in the position where they have to serve a Section 215 Notice upon themselves.  :laugh:

http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html (http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html)
But the Council can't serve a notice on themselves! If the court case goes in favour of Steve Hunt they could serve a notice on him!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 18, 2013, 08:44:57 AM
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The Council may now be in the position where they have to serve a Section 215 Notice upon themselves.  :laugh:

http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html (http://incompetencetoday.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joy-of-section-215.html)
But the Council can't serve a notice on themselves! If the court case goes in favour of Steve Hunt they could serve a notice on him!
The Council is the owner of the Pier and they should deal with it as they would the owner of any other Listed Building that is an unsafe eyesore. Are you saying that the law should not apply to them?  :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on December 18, 2013, 11:39:56 PM
Absolutely not! I think they should, but they can't legally - the Council cannot issue any enforcement orders on itself.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 19, 2013, 11:35:57 AM
That seems like a bizarre anomaly. CCBC were happy to serve a Section 215 Notice on the owner of Billingtons Garage in Conwy last year, because it was an eyesore. Now they are able to preside over probably the most prominent eyesore in Conwy County without any fear of prosecution.

To quote CCBC's own policy:

"The owner of a listed building has a duty to preserve it and failure to do so may lead the Council to serve a notice stating those works it considers necessary to ensure its preservation."

http://www.conwy.gov.uk/section.asp?cat=10225 (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/section.asp?cat=10225)

 &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 19, 2013, 01:33:45 PM
I've written to Private Eye magazine over the pier & Porth Eirias. I think the whole tragic episode warrants coverage in their "Rotten Boroughs" section, which deals with ineptitude, stupidity, lack of transparency, corruption, etc, in local councils. You can contact them at: strobes@private-eye.co.uk
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 19, 2013, 06:04:50 PM
Some coverage in North Wales Weekly News:

A Cadw spokesman appeared to pour scorn on any forthcoming de-listing attempt. They said: "For any de-listing request to be successful it would need to be accompanied by new evidence to demonstrate that the pier was listed in error".

Also:

The decision [to demolish] has been slammed by the Victorian Society. Conservation officer James Hughes said Conwy council should have explored less expensive options besides a complete refurbishment. He said retaining the pier as a "walk-on structure" would not have been as financially demanding. Mr Hughes said: "It's listed because it's nationally significant and to argue that it's unviable based on a single option and therefore should be demolished is shocking, disappointing and surprising".

But, returning to the voices of unreason & illogic: Cllr William Knightley, of Towyn, is quoted as saying, "The people of Conwy cannot afford for the council to waste money on a white elephant". I don't think there's an emoticon that would illustrate my reaction to that, but:

1. He doesn't actually speak for the "people of Conwy".
2. I don't know a single person that would consider a renovated Victorian pier to be a "white elephant".
3. The council has already wasted money on a white elephant. It's called Porth Eirias, and has been branded a carbuncle by independent architectural experts.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on December 20, 2013, 08:29:54 AM
We're used to Conwy councillors having trouble with complex issues, such as telling the time and reading, but what's happening now really does beggar belief and clearly shows the severe limitations of local democracy. 


"Elections are decided by the votes of the uneducated many for the corrupt few."
George Bernard Shaw.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 20, 2013, 04:00:40 PM
The whole system needs rebuilding from scratch, completely inefficient at the moment!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 20, 2013, 08:09:24 PM
It can be done!

After months of renovation work, the £4.2million Penarth Pier Pavilion is finally open to the public.

The new facilities inside the iconic Grade II Pavilion include a pop-up cafe and restaurant, a gift shop and a meeting room offering views of the Bristol Channel.



http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-12-01/penarth-pier-pavilion-to-be-unveiled-after-4-2m-makeover/ (http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-12-01/penarth-pier-pavilion-to-be-unveiled-after-4-2m-makeover/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 20, 2013, 08:46:40 PM
Since no money exists to fund such "white elephants", the Penarth Pier renovation cannot really exist. I suggest it's a hallucination. Death, taxes and austerity are the only realities, if you want to advance in local politics. In fact, Conwy Castle and the whole of LLandudno are not really "sustainable", when you think about it. "Let's face reality and bulldoze it all" (Conwy council mission statement)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 20, 2013, 09:02:06 PM
Could well happen with the clowns in control!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on December 21, 2013, 08:15:31 AM
Quote
"Let's face reality and bulldoze it all" (Conwy council mission statement)

 _))* _))* _))*
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on December 21, 2013, 11:07:52 AM
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Quote
"Let's face reality and bulldoze it all" (Conwy council mission statement)

 _))* _))* _))*

All those in favour shout, "Aye!"    ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 09, 2014, 08:22:53 PM
The people who created the petition (to overturn the decision to demolish the pier) have posted this announcement:

"There is Town Council meeting ... on Monday 13th at Colwyn Bay Town Hall starting at 6:30pm. Please come along and show your support for the fight to save our pier. Please pass this message on to family and friends who support the pier. Thanks. If you come you have to be quiet!!"

http://www.change.org/petitions/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it (http://www.change.org/petitions/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on January 09, 2014, 10:45:28 PM
This is a false announcement! The date, time and location represents a normal meeting of the Town Council, not a Public meeting. Cllr Chris Hughes was quoted in the pier inviting people to come to a public meeting to have their say, and even he should know that although a Town Council meeting can be attended by the public, they are not allowed to speak! He had an item put on the agenda which was just a copy of the paperwork relating to the County Council's decision to demolish. There is not a lot that the Town Council can do about that - we pledged £20K to the feasibility study, ( which was never paid as it has not happened), but until ownership is finally decided any further discussion would be all hot air - and I think there's probably enough of that around at the moment!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on January 09, 2014, 10:48:38 PM
sorry - Chris Hughes was quoted in the Pioneer, not the Pier!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 10, 2014, 01:04:43 PM
Viv, the announcement that I posted above doesn't contradict what you say. It says "Town Council meeting" and "you have to be quiet". (The original error by Cllr Chris Hughes had already been corrected).

I guess the question is: What exactly is going to be discussed concerning the pier? And is it something that you believe isn't of public interest?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on January 10, 2014, 04:35:57 PM
ok BMD - I was referring to the Pioneer article and subsequent poster that invited people to a public meeting to have their say, so thanks for clarifying. Chris Hughes asked for the Pier to be put on the agenda, and the item consists only of the paperwork about the County Council's decision and the options offered to them to make that decision. The actually item says to note and to discuss, so your guess is as good as mine as to what Councillors will raise in that context. To be perfectly honest I can't really see the point of the Town Council or the County Councils making any further comments until the ownership is sorted once and for all. The estimate of renovation work did appear to me to be well over the top - £15M when piers in other places have been saved with a lot less, but that's just me - I'm not a structural engineer or an architect so it's just an opinion.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on January 13, 2014, 08:43:10 AM
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/historic-murals-could-rescued-colwyn-6499110 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/historic-murals-could-rescued-colwyn-6499110)

Interesting article in the Dail Post
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 13, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
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The estimate of renovation work did appear to me to be well over the top - £15M when piers in other places have been saved with a lot less, but that's just me - I'm not a structural engineer or an architect so it's just an opinion.
I agree. For a year or two, the figure mentioned was roughly £5m, the next it had TREBLED to £15m. In my mind, it was a clear attempt to frighten County Councillors into voting for demolition.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 14, 2014, 06:22:43 PM
The inflated "£15m" figure certainly got the headlines. Renovation of the pier's structure (to a boardwalk) would have cost only £2.7m more than demolition - but that didn't make headlines.

The new costing report's options were as follows:

♦ Demolition: £1m
♦ Basic “boardwalk” pier refurbishment: £3.7m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new kiosks: £4.1m
♦ Pier + main pavilion refurbishment:  £8.9m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new build (as per HLF bid): £11.5m

The £15m figure came from adding an extra £4m (approx) to the £11.5m, for "contingency and possible inflation", etc - even though the £11.5m figure already contains amounts for "design contingency" and "construction contingency", and - incidentally - is already padded up with total "professional fees" of approx £1.5m.

The amount estimated for demolition, on the other hand, excludes significant costs, such as for: “Complex and lengthy procedure to be followed to gain delisting from CADW with likely challenge from community/stakeholders” and “Need to establish a business case/funding for alternative focal point at this point on the waterfront”.

But what's new? The tiny minority of councillors who have been against pier renovation for years - for reasons which remain a mystery to me - (and who received disproportionate media coverage for years prior to the lottery funding award) once again managed to get the narrative set in their terms - just at the right time.

All the costs (new report and seemingly arbitrary council add-ons) are given here:
http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 14, 2014, 06:46:20 PM
I still believe that they do not want the pier to create competition for the Skip! Why they had to build the skip and not just restore the pier puzzles me!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 15, 2014, 08:57:24 AM
Threat to Colwyn Bay pier: Councillors' anger at not being consulted at demolition decision

Dozens of people concerned about the demolition of Colwyn Bay pier were turned away from a council meeting.

Campaigners handed out 'Save The Pier' leaflets before the Bay of Colwyn Town Council meeting started last night.

But there were so many people trying to cram into the Town Hall some of them had to be turned away

One man was so exasperated at not being able to find a seat he called it a "disgrace" and accused the town councillors of taking bribes.

In December Conwy County Borough Council voted to seek de-listing and demolish the historic structure, which is currently in the middle of an ownership battle between the council and former owner Steve Hunt.

Colwyn Bay council had pledged £25,000 for the development of the pier in September 2013 and several town councillors expressed their disbelief they were not contacted regarding the crucial vote.

Several concerns were raised by those about the vote in December with the decision branded "premature" and "rushed".

Mayor Chris Perry allowed Gavin Davies, the director of Shore Thing pier pressure group, to speak.

He said: "We are upset some of the councillors did not see the business plan we had put together.

"I do not think they can make an informed decision based on the fact they did not see the plan.

"We spent £36,000 putting the plan together that not many Councillors have actually seen. How can they decide to demolish it?"

Mayor Chris Perry raised other questions about the decision by Conwy Council.

He said: "The biggest problem I have with the decision is that we do not know who owns it.  How can the council make a decision without knowing who owns it?"

Cllr Chris Hughes, who sits on both town and county council and tried in vain to convince County Councillors in December to vote for restoration, echoed Mr Davies's concerns about Shore Thing's business plan. 

He said: "My first concern is that the business plan was not presented. There were questions asked about the business plan which officers could not answer because it was not presented.

"My second concern is that funds already secured were sufficient to manage the development phase when the decision was made and those funds have now been returned.

"We know the cost for the actual demolition of the pier is estimated at £980,000 but that is without the de-listing process - which will not be easy.

"Experts from the Tate gallery have assessed the Eric Ravilious murals as being of significant worldwide importance. They were not even mentioned at the meeting and the removal or restoration of them certainly has not been costed."

Cllr Hughes moved a 10 point recommendation which involved contacting both Conwy Council and CADW admonishing the county council decision.

Cllr Abdul Khan, who also sits on the county council, seconded the recommendation and added: "Why weren't we consulted on this most important of decisions?

"The vote was flawed and we as a town council cannot let this matter rest."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/threat-colwyn-bay-pier-councillors-6506505 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/threat-colwyn-bay-pier-councillors-6506505)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 24, 2014, 12:17:39 AM
Businessman comes forward with plan to save Colwyn Bay's pier:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/pizza-colwyn-bay-pier-businessmans-6555975 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/pizza-colwyn-bay-pier-businessmans-6555975)

This makes sense to me. The guy ran a major construction firm for 40 years, so presumably knows what he's talking about. Of the council's estimate, he says: "£15m is far too high. The steel structure is still solid... £15m is a figure to scare off people from believing in the pier."

He also sees the pier as becoming a “magnet” tourist attraction for the area.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 24, 2014, 12:49:54 AM
...... another solution could be, to give it back to Steve Hunt.

I think it would be hilarious to see the look on his face, but it would save a fortune for CCBC in terms of legal costs and structural upkeep.   

I can just see it now..

CCBC ..''We give in,  here you are Steve, it's yours again'

Steve Hunt.... ''Thanks a lot,  SHIIITTT, what do I do now??? ''
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: llewelyn on January 24, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
He sounds ok, dont know if all he says is accurate but I hope it is. and there is a sensible way forward, just know the regular up keep is expensive.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on January 24, 2014, 08:02:39 PM
I wonder if Tom Jones would like to be an investor? Jim Davidson invested in Great Yarmouth and was it Antony Hopkins that bought a farm and land on Snowdon?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on January 25, 2014, 08:37:08 PM
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The steel structure is still solid...

Where does that come from BDM?
The steel supports that were replaced on Llandudno Pier, as being no longer fit for purpose, were all in far better condition than anything to be found on Colwyn Bay Pier.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 26, 2014, 04:47:59 PM
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The steel structure is still solid...

Where does that come from BDM?
The steel supports that were replaced on Llandudno Pier, as being no longer fit for purpose, were all in far better condition than anything to be found on Colwyn Bay Pier.

I was quoting the article I linked to (see my previous post in this thread) - it was a direct quote from the chap who ran Hankey construction for forty years. The good condition of the steel structural components was determined by previous structural survey, as mentioned in the council's output: "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected." etc.
 
Council ref: http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on January 27, 2014, 01:24:10 AM
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I was quoting the article I linked to (see my previous post in this thread) - it was a direct quote from the chap who ran Hankey construction for forty years. The good condition of the steel structural components was determined by previous structural survey, as mentioned in the council's output: "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected." etc.
 
Council ref: http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf)

From what I've read in the report i.e. appendix 2 9.1 concluded that the cast-iron piles and columns supporting the Pier were structurally sound but that some elements, such as the bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck, were in poor condition and would require replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that means the legs are fine but every thing else, including the bracing to support the legs, will have to be replaced. So I think to say the Steel Structure of the Pier is solid, might be construed as a trifle optimistic.  :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 27, 2014, 01:29:55 PM
A lot of the steelwork does certainly need replacing, and all of the decking. It would be interesting to see what local contractors would charge for carrying out the work?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 27, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
The Victoria Pier Pressure Group have recently published some photos of the Pier's interior. They date from 2013 but are still worth a look. http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/ (http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Jack on January 27, 2014, 04:35:39 PM
Looks a lot better inside than I was expecting!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 27, 2014, 05:50:00 PM
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From what I've read in the report i.e. appendix 2 9.1 concluded that the cast-iron piles and columns supporting the Pier were structurally sound but that some elements, such as the bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck, were in poor condition and would require replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that means the legs are fine but every thing else, including the bracing to support the legs, will have to be replaced. So I think to say the Steel Structure of the Pier is solid, might be construed as a trifle optimistic.  :(

The original structural survey, by Datrys, says (to summarise a little):

1. Cast iron piles & columns in good condition (need only cleaning & painting).
2. Some (but not all - 60% cited) of the main girders need replacing. Some need repairing rather than replacing.
3. Low level horizontal bracing struts need cleaning, and their connection fixings and fittings replaced.
4. Column bracing members and bracing clasps need replacing.

A lot of work to be done, but I think the council report's point was the structure is better than expected. Remember that certain councillors have been quoted by local newspapers (for years) as saying that the pier is too far gone and not salvageable. That's simply false. It's that kind of misleading information that needs countering repeatedly.

The survey also made the point that the condition of the pier is varied. The seaward end is worse. But the area below the pavilion requires fewer girders to be replaced, and could survive in a weakened state for much longer due to high level of redundancy in the structure... etc
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on January 27, 2014, 07:20:29 PM
I do hope that report is accurate BDM. I just have visions of the Pier becoming the next Maesdu Bridge.  ££$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 27, 2014, 08:16:56 PM
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The Victoria Pier Pressure Group have recently published some photos of the Pier's interior. They date from 2013 but are still worth a look. http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/ (http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/)

Well worth looking at - they've posted 127 of them on their Facebook site:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=668612976511540&set=a.668608179845353.1073741826.100000885326980&type=1&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=668612976511540&set=a.668608179845353.1073741826.100000885326980&type=1&permPage=1)

I liked this one:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/t0noux.jpg)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Linda on January 28, 2014, 12:10:11 AM
I saw one of the car on there covered in bird poop, wonder if its up for sale ;)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Tosh on January 28, 2014, 08:38:39 AM
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I saw one of the car on there covered in bird poop, wonder if its up for sale ;)
The car or the poop.
The car is £300 and the poop is thirty bob a bag, bring your own bag.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 28, 2014, 09:29:07 AM
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The Victoria Pier Pressure Group have recently published some photos of the Pier's interior. They date from 2013 but are still worth a look. http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/ (http://victoriapierpressuregroup.weebly.com/)

Well worth looking at - they've posted 127 of them on their Facebook site
Looking at the photos, the main problem with the shoreward end building (built in 1968 as the Golden Goose Amusements by Trusthouse Forte Leisure) is the leaking roof. I remember there were leaks appearing just after Steve Hunt had finished the internal refurbishment work, the pyramid shaped fibreglass vaults (clearly visible on the photo below) on the roof must be a nightmare to keep watertight.

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Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Linda on January 28, 2014, 11:38:44 PM
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I saw one of the car on there covered in bird poop, wonder if its up for sale ;)
The car or the poop.
The car is £300 and the poop is thirty bob a bag, bring your own bag.
$fan$ think ill give that a miss then. Thirty bob way over priced.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Linda on January 28, 2014, 11:42:21 PM
If the pier is demolished we will loose that amazing starling display just before dark just before they roost for the night. Or will they congregate on the Waterfront building and take the poop with them Oh dear! ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 28, 2014, 11:58:16 PM
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If the pier is demolished we will loose that amazing starling display just before dark just before they roost for the night. Or will they congregate on the Waterfront building and take the poop with them Oh dear! ???

The starling swooping display is known as a 'Murmuration' apparently...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 29, 2014, 09:48:50 AM
I used to fairly regularly see a peregrine falcon perched on top of the structure at the seaward end of the pier. I once borrowed some ultra-powerful binoculars from someone, and got a good long look at it in the morning sunshine. Perhaps the pier can be listed as a habitat of a protected species (in addition to being a listed building).  ;)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 30, 2014, 05:34:47 PM
I would like to place a substantial bet that Colwyn Bay Pier will still be there, (whether developed or not)...

......TEN YEARS from now.   ;)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 31, 2014, 09:32:41 AM
I believe as part of the de-listing process, that CCBC must prove that they have actively tried to sell the pier.

What's to stop Shore Thing putting in a £1 bid to take it off the Council's hands, then they can get stuck in tidying it up and applying for grants?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on January 31, 2014, 06:55:50 PM
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What's to stop Shore Thing putting in a £1 bid to take it off the Council's hands?

If Shore Thing were foolish enough to contemplate doing as you suggest, in a time of austerity, when grants and outside funding are exceptionally hard to come by, they could very easily find themselves having to pay for the demolition of the Pier and for the subsequent clean up of the foreshore.

Not something that should be contemplated without a great deal of rational forethought.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 02, 2014, 05:46:34 PM
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If Shore Thing were foolish enough to contemplate doing as you suggest, in a time of austerity, when grants and outside funding are exceptionally hard to come by, they could very easily find themselves having to pay for the demolition of the Pier and for the subsequent clean up of the foreshore.

Not something that should be contemplated without a great deal of rational forethought.
I hardly think its likely they would own the Pier in their own names! A charitable Trust would probably be the ownership model used, it would own the property, not the individual members of Shore Thing.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 02, 2014, 05:58:06 PM
More likely the Trust would form a wholly-owned limited company. That seems the safest way.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 11, 2014, 01:29:26 PM
A shortened Colwyn Bay Pier is a very sensible idea. The original Pier was only half the length of the present one anyway.

Plans to save 'shortened' Colwyn Bay pier take shape
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/130897/plans-to-save-shortened-colwyn-bay-pier-take-shape.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/130897/plans-to-save-shortened-colwyn-bay-pier-take-shape.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 13, 2014, 03:56:57 PM
David Jones MP: "HLF confirm that their file on proposed funding for #ColwynBayPier has now been closed, following council decision to withdraw application" (on Twitter)

And to think that councils are often criticised for being slow to act. They must have broken speed records to make sure the window of opportunity opened by the Heritage Lottery Fund was slammed shut forever.  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 17, 2014, 05:02:19 PM
Indeed. I still think the Pier saga has a few more twists and turns to come yet.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 19, 2014, 04:46:45 PM
Cormorants on the pier this morning. They were meeting to pass a vote of no confidence in the council.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/20aa1wg.jpg)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 19, 2014, 07:47:23 PM
Great picture BMD!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 11, 2014, 01:29:16 PM
D-day for Colwyn Bay pier as cabinet votes to back demolition
11 Mar 2014 12:52

Councillors will vote today on whether to press ahead with the demolition of Colwyn’s Bay pier.

Knocking down the Victoria landmark would “remove an eyesore and dangerous structure from a public beach”, officers say.

 Conwy Council’s Cabinet members are being asked to formally back scrapping the Grade II listed pier, after the full council decided to seek to de-list and demolish the historic but dilapidated building, saying that redevelopment was not a viable option.

However, there is an ongoing ownership battle between the local authority and former owner Steve Hunt, with a Cardiff county court hearing to resolve the issue set for April 14-16.

Members are being asked to agree to  demolish the pier, and approve its interim management to ensure public safety. They are also seeking to re-enforce the promenade’s link to the town centre at that point.

The recommendation  is that elements of the pier’s structure and heritage would be preserved and the public are clearly told the reasons for demolition.

 But Gavin Davies, director of Shore Thing, a pressure group set up in support of the pier, said last night: “I can’t understand why Conwy Council want to demolish a pier they don’t actually own. The Land Registry states that Steve Hunt still owns it. The council are jumping ahead.”

 Mr Davies said Shore Thing representatives last week met Welsh Secretary David Jones, the Clwyd West MP, and will meet Clwyd West Am Darren Millar soon to discuss the issues.

 Mr Davies also said a Hastings Pier campaigner calculates it would cost £9m to restore and redevelop – not the £15m Conwy Council has mooted.

 Mr Davies said: “The business plan we put to the Heritage Lottery Fund still stands. We are still working towards that outcome but not with Conwy Council anymore.

 “Our main aim is to work towards a sustainable pier that will not cost the taxpayer any money to maintain.”

 He said it will cost Conwy Council £53,000 in 2014-2015 simply for security and maintenance. He added: “It could have shops, a restaurant and a place for people to fish. That would generate income for the pier and its maintenance.”

 Chef Bryn Williams is due to open a bistro at Porth Eirias although the timetable has slipped towards the summer.

 And Mr Davies said: “The continued absence of a bistro operating at Porth Eirias underlines that people wanting somewhere to eat have nowhere to go.

 “There were mobile burger vans there last year but there is only one waterfront kiosk left and that isn’t open.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/d-day-colwyn-bay-pier-colwyn-6798916 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/d-day-colwyn-bay-pier-colwyn-6798916)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on March 11, 2014, 11:56:40 PM
The council has now agreed that there must be a "focal point" to replace the pier:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-focal-6802671 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-focal-6802671)

I fully expect to see a structure that inadvertently resembles a giant wheelie bin, constructed by 2018 (two years behind schedule) - at great public cost.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 12, 2014, 06:45:35 AM
Sounds about right!  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on March 12, 2014, 10:03:16 AM
today,s daily post says council are spending £ 50,000 + a year on the  pier ,please tell me on WHAT,  someones telling porkies , fix the pier and get private concerens to build and open shops and different things on there .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: A.L.N. (a local nobody) on April 15, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
Am I right in thinking the ownership court case is on this week?? ???
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 15, 2014, 10:36:01 AM
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Am I right in thinking the ownership court case is on this week?? ???
Postponed until August 6...the saga carries on!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on June 07, 2014, 04:57:26 PM
North Wales Weekly News has a front-page story about the pier. There's apparently a new plan to re-submit a revised Heritage Lottery fund bid for 73% of "both the development and delivery phase".

I hope there's something in it, although at this point I suspect the minority who have always wanted the pier demolished have won the propaganda battle (with the inflated "£15m" estimate, false dichotomies on options, general lack of vision, philistinism, double standards regarding cost & "sustainability" of Porth Eirias, etc, etc).

(There doesn't seem to be an online version at present, so no link, sorry).
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2014, 05:55:15 PM
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North Wales Weekly News has a front-page story about the pier. There's apparently a new plan to re-submit a revised Heritage Lottery fund bid for 73% of "both the development and delivery phase".

I hope there's something in it, although at this point I suspect the minority who have always wanted the pier demolished have won the propaganda battle (with the inflated "£15m" estimate, false dichotomies on options, general lack of vision, philistinism, double standards regarding cost & "sustainability" of Porth Eirias, etc, etc).

(There doesn't seem to be an online version at present, so no link, sorry).
Who is submitting the revised bid, BMD? I take it that it's Shore Thing, rather than CCBC?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on June 07, 2014, 06:06:16 PM
The article (by Tom Davidson) says it's Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust (CVPT) - which apparently is a merger of the Pier Pressure Group and Shore Thing. They must have support from a public body to make a bid, and the article implies this will be Colwyn Bay Town Council, with which they'll act in partnership, "if the application for development funding is successful".
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on August 26, 2014, 06:08:54 PM
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Am I right in thinking the ownership court case is on this week?? ???
Postponed until August 6...the saga carries on!
[/quote

Re above.?     ?        ?    Is their a petition ? what is the feeling ?  do people want it ?

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on September 10, 2014, 12:28:52 PM
This is sad to read: How the council is moving ahead with plans to demolish the pier: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-7747026 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-7747026)

As always, I'm struck with the language and philistine illogic of the people who influence these decisions. The way Rob Dix ("Bay Life’s regeneration officer") talks about various piers always having "struggled", you'd wonder why the Victorians built them in the first place - or why everybody loves them. I mean, they're just one big "struggle". But aren't some things worth having regardless of the "struggle"? Their answer to that seems to be "Yes" in the case of Porth Eirias, but no in the case of Victorian piers.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on September 10, 2014, 12:42:47 PM
Porth Eirias is certainly a 'struggle', yet they don't appear to have given up on that yet!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on September 10, 2014, 03:45:21 PM
Quote
As always, I'm struck with the language and philistine illogic of the people who influence these decisions.

Absolutely.  It's not simply Philistine; it's disingenuous.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on September 10, 2014, 03:59:51 PM
Just found this link to a petition.   Is this the only one?......

http://www.change.org/p/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it (http://www.change.org/p/conwy-borough-council-overturn-the-decision-to-knock-down-colwyn-bay-pier-and-restore-it)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on September 10, 2014, 11:17:20 PM
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This is sad to read: How the council is moving ahead with plans to demolish the pier: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-7747026 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-7747026)

As always, I'm struck with the language and philistine illogic of the people who influence these decisions. The way Rob Dix ("Bay Life’s regeneration officer") talks about various piers always having "struggled", you'd wonder why the Victorians built them in the first place - or why everybody loves them. I mean, they're just one big "struggle". But aren't some things worth having regardless of the "struggle"? Their answer to that seems to be "Yes" in the case of Porth Eirias, but no in the case of Victorian piers.


There will be no demolition whilst it is still listed.... and there is no unseemly rush to de-list it.

Nothing will happen in the short term, and whilst there is life, there is hope.
But, once it's gone, it's gone forever, and those who vote for that to happen should hang their heads in shame.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 13, 2014, 10:56:34 AM
PIER: Conwy Council has applied for a licence to put up a security fence around Colwyn Bay's Victoria Pier for safety reasons.
Ref.DPblog8am
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 13, 2014, 05:52:53 PM
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PIER: Conwy Council has applied for a licence to put up a security fence around Colwyn Bay's Victoria Pier for safety reasons.
Ref.DPblog8am
Safety measures stepped up at Colwyn Bay pier
Security is being stepped up around Colwyn Bay’s dilapidated Victoria Pier.
Conwy Council has applied for a marine licence to Natural Resources Wales to erect a fence “to protect the public from (the) risk of the unstable structure”.
It is understood that it will be needed when contractors move off site and the area under the pier will become more accessible.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/safety-measures-stepped-up-colwyn-7928429 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/safety-measures-stepped-up-colwyn-7928429)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 14, 2014, 12:24:05 PM
Ref Tom Davidson Wkly/news....DPblog
Letter to @ConwyCBC leader Cllr Dilwyn Roberts asking for assurances a business case to save Pier would be considered
11:55 AM - 14 Oct 2014

Copy of letter on Daily post live Blog...http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-north-wales-live-blog-7928695 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-north-wales-live-blog-7928695)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: dwsi on October 14, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
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Ref Tom Davidson Wkly/news....DPblog
Letter to @ConwyCBC leader Cllr Dilwyn Roberts asking for assurances a business case to save Pier would be considered
11:55 AM - 14 Oct 2014

Copy of letter on Daily post live Blog...http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-north-wales-live-blog-7928695 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-north-wales-live-blog-7928695)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz5v003CYAALdXY.jpg)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 17, 2014, 10:08:10 AM
Heritage Lottery bid to save Colwyn Bay's pier
Oct 16, 2014 16:33
By Tom Davidson


Bay of Colwyn Town Council’s continuing fight to save the pier has been given a shot in the arm.

The town council has been given the legal green light to work with community group the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust in an application for Heritage Lottery Funding.

Councillors voted to support CVPT in June, despite Conwy Council continuing to seek demolition, but were unsure of their legal footing.

Following consultation with lawyers they have been approved, provided they limit their own financial liability.

CVPT hopes to resubmit a revised Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) bid for 73% of both the development phase and delivery phase of the project, after Conwy Council turned down HLF development funding following a vote in December 2013 to demolish the pier.

If the application for development phase funding is successful Bay of Colwyn Town Council will enter into partnership with CVPT to put together a feasibility study and find out once and for all if the pier can have a future.

Cllr John Reaney said: “At the minute we seem to have just two options, one to renovate the pier completely or one where it gets demolished.

“I get a lot of people in favour and a lot not but I’m only telling them a limited story.

“I’m not here to have my own opinion, I’m here to represent the people of my ward and they need to be able to make an informed decision.”

This news comes just one week before a special meeting of the full council regarding the Victoria Pier on Tuesday, October 21.

At 6pm councillors will be briefed by Conwy Council officers Sasha Davies and Rob Dix on the worsening condition of the 114-year-old structure.

This week Conwy Council has been taking measures to improve security around the pier.

They have now applied for a marine licence to Natural Resources Wales to put up a fence “to protect the public from (the) risk of the unstable structure”.

It is understood that it will be needed when contractors move off site and the area under the pier will become more accessible.

In December last year, the local authority voted to clear the site, and it has now recruited independent environmental consultants Nash Partnership of Bath to advise and support its bid to bring in the bulldozers.

Edward Nash’s firm will test the merits of Conwy Council’s case for demolition, report monthly and conclude its work by November or December.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/in-your-area/heritage-lottery-bid-save-colwyn-7948434 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/in-your-area/heritage-lottery-bid-save-colwyn-7948434)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 17, 2014, 10:59:16 AM
 ££$ ££$ ££$ ££$ ££$ $walesflag$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2014, 10:11:45 AM
Colwyn Bay councillors back bid to revamp pier which is now deteriorating at an 'incredible' rate

Two councils are going head to head over the demolition of a historic pier — amid warnings it is deteriorating rapidly.

Bay of Colwyn town councillors voted to submit a bid — likely to be about £8.5m — by the end of November to the Heritage Lottery Fund to redevelop Colwyn Bay’s Grade II listed Victoria Pier.

This was despite receiving a presentation from two senior Conwy County Council officers, its leader and a consultant — who all backed demolition.

Supporters, including Jess Steele who helped save Hastings Pier, were delighted with the vote but Cllr Viv Perry, a former Mayor of Colwyn Bay, said the vote would only “prolong the agony” before inevitable demolition.

Earlier, Rob Dix, Conwy’s section head for business and and enterprise told the meeting that part of the pier is structurally unsound, a new two-metre high security fence is being put up and even council officers will be ordered not to enter the premises for safety reasons.
More....
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-councillors-back-bid-7983764 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-councillors-back-bid-7983764)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2014, 01:49:26 PM
It would be interesting to run a poll on this forum occasionally, to see which way the wind blows on this one would be a good start !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2014, 01:56:05 PM
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It would be interesting to run a poll on this forum occasionally, to see which way the wind blows on this one would be a good start !
I agree..... $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2014, 03:40:58 PM
TOWN councillors have thrown renewed support behind the fight to save Colwyn Bay pier.

Members of the Bay of Colwyn Town Council voted to carry on backing a Heritage Lottery Fund bid to restore the aging Grade-II listed Victorian structure after Conwy County Council gave an update to their meeting on Tuesday.
Town councillors made the vote despite warnings over the pier’s safety, and the county council’s plans to demolish the structure.
Town Cerk Tina Early said: “The county council asked to give us a presentation on the current state of the pier and where everything is up to.
“There was a vote and councillors agreed to carry on backing the bid.“
Town Councillors were told that the structure is deteriorating with growing concerns about its safety.
Conwy County Council Chief Executive Iwan Davies said: “The former Bandstand area has been of concern for some time and it had been proposed that we would seek to remove that area of the structure.

MORE...http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/139778/town-councillors-throw-fresh-support-behind-colwyn-bay-pier-bid.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/139778/town-councillors-throw-fresh-support-behind-colwyn-bay-pier-bid.aspx)

Ref Dave..."It would be interesting to run a poll on this forum occasionally, to see which way the wind blows on this one would be a good start !"

See page 38.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 23, 2014, 04:08:13 PM
I have added a Vote about the future of the Pier, which appears at the top of the thread.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2014, 04:24:18 PM
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I have added a Vote about the future of the Pier, which appears at the top of the thread.  $good$
In these days of "Cuts" it is difficult to justify, but with the grant, and a self sustaining system put in place (£1 per head) to visit the pier, it should work.
Ref. Fester's quote of the 10/9/14...
"But, once it's gone, it's gone forever, and those who vote for that to happen should hang their heads in shame."  ££$


Can guests vote ?
 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: majormellons on October 23, 2014, 11:36:41 PM
Anybody who thinks that spending a penny on that eyesore, except for knocking it down, need their heads testing.

I'm amazed that local youths haven't torched the place yet, and save CCBC the cost of structured demolition.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: snowcap on October 24, 2014, 12:06:22 AM
I would think that the idea of spending money on the "eye sore" is to restore it to something that the tourest would only be to glad to visit and so bring some more than welcome trade
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: majormellons on October 24, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
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I would think that the idea of spending money on the "eye sore" is to restore it to something that the tourest would only be to glad to visit and so bring some more than welcome trade

If you think that spending £10m in that bomb site is money well spent, then so be it.
My partner is about to have her contract cancelled by CCBC, because of all the cut backs, I'm finding any waste of money, whether it be the Skip or the Pier, incredibly frustrating when it could be far better utilised.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 24, 2014, 09:49:16 AM
To demolish would be a false economy, to my mind. First, there's the cost of demolition itself (£1m-£1.2m), then there's all the additional costs involved, both in preparation for demolishing (including, in the council's own words - and unless the need for this has changed: "Complex and lengthy procedure to be followed to gain delisting from CADW with likely challenge from community/stakeholders”).

Then there are the costs of what happens afterwards, including, according to the council: “Need to establish a business case/funding for alternative focal point at this point on the waterfront”. See: http://colwynbay.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/pier-demolition/ (http://colwynbay.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/pier-demolition/)

And what "focal point" are they going to build in its place? Has anyone given the slightest thought to this? They can't just leave an ugly stump (although I wouldn't put that past them). There needs to be something there which draws pedestrians from town. What, exactly? It's another project with potentially high costs and the probability of an an outcome like Porth Eirias. That would be a total distaster. You think you have an eyesore now? Just wait.

And consider the loss. Piers are iconic, symbolic. They are huge attractions - you can't afford to underestimate the positive indirect effects of having a pier (as well as the obvious ones). It's not just Colwyn Bay. North Wales is perceived as a coastline with Victorian piers. There are only around 50 left in the whole country. We don't want to lose another. It would be so short-sighted. In the future, people will look back and say: "How could they?".

Given the latest estimates, the difference between demolition alone and having a newly refurbished basic-boardwalk pier is only £2.7m. If you subtract the cost of the project to build a replacement "focal point", the net cost of keeping the pier is even lower than that.

It's not "throwing money at" an eyesore, it's investing money in the replacement of an eyesore with a refurbished pier (rather than some abomination like The Skip).
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 24, 2014, 10:37:54 AM
BMD.  Well said, I agree,
I need some backup here from the Rhosite's.....I remember a lot of discussion going on in the past about " the adverse changes to Rhos beach after they demolished the Rhos pier" such as "the rocks from the other side, being washed around",  and "it was never the same",
Although piers stand on thin legs, they still have an effect on the tides, if it goes what will happen to all the new work, just completed ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 24, 2014, 10:48:28 AM
Quote
My partner is about to have her contract cancelled by CCBC, because of all the cut backs, I'm finding any waste of money, whether it be the Skip or the Pier, incredibly frustrating when it could be far better utilised.

Yes, and although a lot of those contracted staff at the lower end will see their contracts ended I wonder how many of the senior staff will see the same, or how many councillors receiving substantial expenses or salaries will voluntarily hand back or even refuse their money?  Or whether our illustrious MPs will hand back their recent increases?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: majormellons on October 24, 2014, 11:35:29 AM
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Given the latest estimates, the difference between demolition alone and having a newly refurbished basic-boardwalk pier is only £2.7m. If you subtract the cost of the project to build a replacement "focal point", the net cost of keeping the pier is even lower than that.

It's not "throwing money at" an eyesore, it's investing money in the replacement of an eyesore with a refurbished pier (rather than some abomination like The Skip).

What value would a short, newly refurbished basic boardwalk bring?
Just another £2.7m (or probably nearer £5m knowing how these projects always cost far more than estimated) spend on something that offers nothing back in return, well nothing financial apart from the  ongoing maintenance costs.

Colwyn Bay prom will look much nicer without it, or another Skip in its place.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 24, 2014, 12:18:21 PM
I'm familiar with that argument - but it's applied inconsistently. If we follow through on the logic, we must also demolish the Skip (since it's clearly not going to fund itself, even with the dreamed-about bistro in place - and most people regard it as an eyesore).

(Also, the Skip would be cheaper to demolish than the pier, and cheaper to replace.)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 24, 2014, 04:21:27 PM
I must admit I was swayed by an emotional tug at the heart strings and changed from demolition to basic renovation when it came to my vote. Wouldn't a basic pier..solid support and walkway at at the minimum cost to the rate payer be a good compromise ? No need for it to support large structures but if small booths such as the ones on Llandudno's pier could be erected for retail outlets and general interest wouldn't that suffice ? That way an income would be generated to pay towards it's upkeep.
If we are honest though, if the pier was going to be an economic success it would never have got in to the state it's in now. Unless there's a radical change to Colwyn Bay centre you will never get people walking through from the town. The piers hey day was when folk arrived by train , Colwyn Bay was a vibrant little town which actually offered holiday accommodation and supported some lovely shops and a superb little amusement park to say nothing of cinemas and theatres including the one on the pier.
All that went with the introduction of cheap flights and the A55 Expressway and in my opinion it will never return. Tourism figures may well be up because we had a superb summer and Colwyn Bay was no exception although there I imagine the majority of the spend was in the remaining kiosks and cafes by day trippers not so much "staycationers".
If you consider the four piers that are in North Wales only Colywn Bay's is on a decent beach. It was the Bay's sand that attracted the people despite the building works going on because it's one of the few places were you can park your car and access the beach directly. They certainly weren't there to eat expensive meals in an upmarket bistro and very few were there to partake in watersports.I don't think many would be bothered to walk to the pier either for that matter.It would be interesting to see the number of passengers the land train actually carried because if you can't be bothered to walk to the pier you probably can't be bothered to walk on it either.
Personally I think money should be spent on and around Rhos Point to renovate that and I also think there is justification for a car parking charge on the Colwyn Bay prom too provided the funds are used to support facilities like decent toilet facilities for the visitors.
The pier will always be a financial Albatross but I vote to let the next generation decide when if it has to go. Too many of us see it with the rose tinted glasses of the past to be totally objective.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 24, 2014, 04:50:34 PM
Quote
All that went with the introduction of cheap flights and the A55 Expressway

No.  It went much earlier than that. CB has always played second fiddle to Llandudno's trio.  Even in the '50s, when CB was still offering holiday accommodation, the destination of choice was Llandudno. Ironic, really, since CB's beach was always superior but Llandudndo has the Ormes, the deeper waters, the entertainment, the beaches and - oh, and did I say the Ormes?

As patterns have changed, both resorts have deteriorated in terms of offering, accommodation, facilities and attractions in general, but the Ormes have meant that Llandudno's bay sweep remains unique and - although the entertainment venues were swept away, numbers dropped off, income declined and the gardens left to degenerate to an entropic shadow of their former selves, the less inherently attractive resorts died, which meant CB and Rhyl, to name but two.

Nothing short of demolition of the entire town will reconstitute CB, now. It's desperately, deplorably sad, too, because CB still has enormous potential but its fate remains inextricably tied to Llandudno's success as a tourist resort.  It's market forces which have created the current situation, too;  market forces that decided more money could be made by demolishing superb cinemas and building retirement flats. Market forces that allowed the trams to disappear, when trams are making come-backs across the world as instruments of tourist development. Market forces that allowed the Pavilion to deteriorate until it was destroyed by a fire. Market forces that would have Llandudno an entire enclave of retirement flats and private hospitals and no hotels or boarding houses whatsoever.

People moan about CCBC's funding of the Venue Cymru and of Theatr Cymru, yet does anyone seriously imagine, in their wildest dreams, that private developers would ever had created such facilities? I was chatting with two performers from the WNO the other day, and they're performing at TC. Opera in Llandudno. Yet it's only possible because of the funding from the Arts Council, the WAG and CCBC.

CB's only hope for survival as any sort of holiday place is if Llandudno remains even moderately successful as a holiday destination.  The sort of lateral thinking that envisages a tram restoration project which might see trams reintroduced along the old routes still exists but the money will never be found. Why not? Because market forces are only interested in a quick buck and it would take a central government injection of unheard of cash to change anything in that regard.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on October 24, 2014, 07:48:58 PM
One idea is to cut up the Colwyn Bay Pier into small pieces, mount each piece on a square of polished wood, and sell them off as souvenirs.   Enough money may be generated to build a shorter pier from which annoying people could jump!
 ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: white rabbit on October 24, 2014, 08:47:09 PM
I agree with Dave - I also had a tug at the heartstrings!  I wouldn't like the  pier demolished - many happy memories from childhood and teenage years.  We lived on Cayley Prom and could see the pier from the house and as a teenager went fishing on the pier.  I would rather see the skip demolished and the pier restored - what good is the skip anyway??!! :'(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 25, 2014, 12:12:54 AM
Some erudite and excellent posts on this subject, some of them have even swayed me away from my default position of 'all piers are fantastic and must be saved'
Some powerful arguments both ways, and I particularly understand the feeling of MajorMellons, given the fact that money cannot be found to continue his partner's employment.  That moved me, and I know I would feel the same in his position.

What I would like to see is a really transparent list of ALL the expenditure which CCBC think is more important than the Pier, and once I am satisfied that those items are crucial, (or even statutory service provision', then I will concede that the Pier must be allowed to be demolished.
But sadly, I will never be privy to those priorities, because the 'powers that be' at CCBC willl seek to protect their own political agendas and their own remuneration before anything else.
These people would do well to remember that they are public SERVANTS.   &shake& &shake&


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 25, 2014, 12:23:10 AM
Hi Fester,   How does Llandudno pier pay it's way.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 25, 2014, 12:25:28 AM
Steve, in descending order...

1, The Amusement Arcade Revenues.
2, The rents paid by the Concessionaires.
3, The revenue from the Pier's own concessions... (Ice Cream, Cafe, Bar)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 25, 2014, 12:28:35 AM
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Steve, in descending order...

1, The Amusement Arcade Revenues.
2, The rents paid by the Concessionaires.
3, The revenue from the Pier's own concessions... (Ice Cream, Cafe, Bar)

 $thanx$ $thanx$   $good$

What do you think of an entrance fee to visit a pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 25, 2014, 12:51:27 AM
Part of me thinks it would be a DISASTER.

A small part of me says it would keep certain scumbags and lowlife off it.  (not to mention it would eradicate dog fouling)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on October 25, 2014, 09:26:37 AM
When it was the Llandudno pier co you did pay to go down the pier
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on October 25, 2014, 08:10:45 PM
 I am a bit confused. Quote from last post "When it was Lllandudno pier Co etc etc)  What was "it" Colwyn Bay pier or Llandudno pier? In either event I don't recall ever having to pay on either of them.
   Another thing confuse me. How has this post got where it is seeing as it was sent sometime around 8 this morning and all the earlier (i e before this one) posts were around miday?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on October 25, 2014, 08:49:49 PM
Ormegolf  Steve asked if to pay going on the pier ,(for income) surely you can remember having to pay to go on both piers , late 60s 70s the toll gate on Llandudno was just past the shell shop , before that kiosk was next to the fish tackle shop ,and they had a turnstile where the kiosks are at the entrance to the pier .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 26, 2014, 07:56:11 AM
Quote
Another thing confuse me. How has this post got where it is seeing as it was sent sometime around 8 this morning and all the earlier (i e before this one) posts were around miday?

The time stamp on your post says 08:49:49 PM, Mike. Any chance you made a mistake?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on October 26, 2014, 08:47:40 AM
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Quote
Another thing confuse me. How has this post got where it is seeing as it was sent sometime around 8 this morning and all the earlier (i e before this one) posts were around miday?

The time stamp on your post says 08:49:49 PM, Mike. Any chance you made a mistake?


I think he's confused those posts between Fester & SteveH as being at midday when they were actually at midnight.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 26, 2014, 04:30:59 PM
Fester must have a better idea about the financial viability of piers than most of us and I agree, I think entrance fees would be a disastrous move for all the businesses there that's why they scrapped them in the first place.
I would like to pose this question to Fester though.
I haven't a clue how much you pay to have a concession on the pier and don't need to know, however, if Colwyn Bay's pier was renovated and you were offered the opportunity of have a retail outlet there at the same price as Llandudno's would you take it ?
In addition,if it's going to cost upwards of £5,000,000 to renovate and still in all probability remain within the councils ownership, do you think the rents from potential rentals would provide enough income to service the loan debt ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 26, 2014, 05:14:03 PM
Bangor pier is another example to consider, and probably closer to Colwyn Bay's in some respects (although not in length!). The interesting thing about Bangor pier is that it's out of the way - quite a distance from town.

It's an indication of the popularity of piers that two couples I know, from different parts of the country, always make a point of visiting Bangor pier when they visit North Wales, even though they're not so interested in Bangor town centre (although they do go there as part of their trip to the pier).
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 26, 2014, 05:48:51 PM
The story of Britain’s piers is a story of
challenge, crisis and renewal. So, I welcome
this report that looks at the co-operative
model and the promise of community
ownership. It tells the inspiring story of
Hastings Pier.
http://www.uk.coop/sites/storage/public/downloads/peoples_piers.pdf (http://www.uk.coop/sites/storage/public/downloads/peoples_piers.pdf)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 26, 2014, 08:46:20 PM
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The story of Britain’s piers is a story of
challenge, crisis and renewal. So, I welcome
this report that looks at the co-operative
model and the promise of community
ownership. It tells the inspiring story of
Hastings Pier.
http://www.uk.coop/sites/storage/public/downloads/peoples_piers.pdf (http://www.uk.coop/sites/storage/public/downloads/peoples_piers.pdf)

Very interesting, Steve, thanks. Stats confirming the universal popularity of piers, and that they're visited on a regular basis by the vast majority of the public. Also interesting on the Hastings case - many problems to overcome: absentee owner registered in Panama; court cases regarding ownership; council too slow to do anything despite public will to get something done, etc.

On the Colwyn Bay case, I would argue that some in the council have not only failed to serve and represent the public's overwhelming support for renovating the pier (as judged by petitions, campaigns, etc) but have actively tried to undermine it in certain cases.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on October 26, 2014, 09:37:41 PM
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Fester must have a better idea about the financial viability of piers than most of us and I agree, I think entrance fees would be a disastrous move for all the businesses there that's why they scrapped them in the first place.
I would like to pose this question to Fester though.
I haven't a clue how much you pay to have a concession on the pier and don't need to know, however, if Colwyn Bay's pier was renovated and you were offered the opportunity of have a retail outlet there at the same price as Llandudno's would you take it ?
In addition,if it's going to cost upwards of £5,000,000 to renovate and still in all probability remain within the councils ownership, do you think the rents from potential rentals would provide enough income to service the loan debt ?

Dave, when you see any kiosk on Llandudno Pier that is vacant, on application you will find that they are between £6000 and £9000 per annum to rent. 
There are more becoming available each year, which is an indication that the owners have now gone too high with the rents, and hence many are not viable.
The selling season has also become much shorter, (May to September), and each selling day has become shorter. (Noon to 4pm if you are lucky)
A combination of factors have led to this.
So, in direct response to your question, NO, I would not open a kiosk on Colwyn Bay Pier.
In addition, if I did not already have established returning customers, I would not open one on Llandudno Pier either.


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 26, 2014, 11:20:44 PM
The article about Hastings Pier makes interesting, inspirational even, reading but when I read it a second time I started to see some unanswered questions, the obvious being once funding from the likes of the Lottery Heritage Fund has been acquired for renovation there isn't a solid plan on how to maintain the pier, no indication where the money is coming from.I think Fester's response illustrates that it might not be that easy making enough from renting out space for retail outlets and the concept of charging for entry won't work either.
When it comes to the justification, is that not another case of manipulating the figures to suit?
69% of Britons have visited a pier in recent years..... recent....how recent ? The UK population is 64m, that means 44m have visited but as only 6m visit piers each year doesn't that mean one visit every 7+ years and that assumes that there are no multiple visits? The reality has to be that the average person probably makes very few visits in a lifetime. Well in my case I think I can say I probably wander on to Llandudno Pier maybe once a year on average but I can also claim to have made a visit to the Colwyn Bay Skip too so you can read in to that statistic what you want.
Not everything in the community has to be justified in monetary terms otherwise we probably wouldn't have many of the arts or even the sports success stories we have in the UK. However, those are backed by government funding.
Ownership by the community is a totally different risk.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 26, 2014, 11:57:29 PM
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69% of Britons have visited a pier in recent years..... recent....how recent ? The UK population is 64m, that means 44m have visited but as only 6m visit piers each year doesn't that mean one visit every 7+ years and that assumes that there are no multiple visits?

The actual time period they quote (elsewhere - see link below) is "5 years" ("69% of the UK population have visited a pier within the last 5 years"). I'm not sure how they work out "6 million people a year" from that, but I think they mean at least one visit to at least one pier by a given person in that time period.

It translates into a hell of a lot of visits when you allow for all the people (like me and my friends/relatives) who make multiple repeat visits to more than one pier, but who only count once in the stats.

http://www.uk.coop/pressrelease/seaside-piers-are-threatened-rising-maintenance-costs-and-%C2%A333m-insurance-bill (http://www.uk.coop/pressrelease/seaside-piers-are-threatened-rising-maintenance-costs-and-%C2%A333m-insurance-bill)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 27, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Stats are always interesting, more for what they omit than for what they include. Fester's comments about renting are interesting and informative but he's also made a point many times in the past which bears repeating: people who visit holiday resorts for recreation do so in the certain knowledge that whatever funds they choose to allocate for the visit will be removed from them during the visit, usually in return for food and entertainment.

That's the purpose of any holiday destination, after all: to separate the visitor from their money in the most enjoyable and pleasant ways possible. But the total amount of money people bring with them has been in decline for some time, I suspect, so any new projects have to take that into account. For that reason alone, I strongly believe that private investors are the wrong people to run any pier. Companies have as their sole aim the financial return. Trusts, On the other hand , see maintenance and improvement as their duty, and I've seen few examples where the two aims coincide successfully, although there are some. CB's only hope is for a long-term trust to be established, with the hope that it can get the right people on board who are comfortable dealing with a multi-million pound investment for many years to come.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 27, 2014, 04:42:36 PM
I keep re-reading all the comments, but it only throws up more questions......ie after spending the millions on the beach between Porth Eiris and the pier and the new access to C.B. surely it would be better to have an attraction, such as the pier in one form or another.
Is there any history left with the buildings on the pier? ...save the pier worry about what goes on it later?
Would it be better shorter?.... There was an idea of a big wheel?
Colwyn Bay does not have enough accommodation to be a holiday resort at the moment, but with full use of what has been done and a revamped pier I think this would draw visitors to the town.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 27, 2014, 04:45:11 PM
Off topic but sort a decent railway line out from Liverpool and you'd have a lot more day trippers. Over 2 hours for a 50 mile journey is awful!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on October 27, 2014, 05:59:30 PM
Quote
sort a decent railway line out from Liverpool and you'd have a lot more day trippers.

That's exactly why I asked the question about the Halton Curve. That is being restored, so I wanted to know if that meant Liverpool would now only be a single ride away.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 28, 2014, 10:51:44 AM
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I would think that the idea of spending money on the "eye sore" is to restore it to something that the tourest would only be to glad to visit and so bring some more than welcome trade

If you think that spending £10m in that bomb site is money well spent, then so be it.
My partner is about to have her contract cancelled by CCBC, because of all the cut backs, I'm finding any waste of money, whether it be the Skip or the Pier, incredibly frustrating when it could be far better utilised.
I see your point, MM, but pier restoration money would come from the Heritage Lottery Fund, rather than CCBC, so it's not a case of 'either or'.

Perhaps the real question is why are CCBC doggedly determined to demolish the Pier, when they could easily offload it to the Pier Pressure Group/Colwyn Town Council, who are currently preparing a revised HLF bid for funds? Are they afraid that another organisation will get the job done, and further expose their own lack of success is doing ANYTHING properly?

Any news about Bryn's Bistro, btw?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: majormellons on October 28, 2014, 12:14:57 PM
If it can be restored without any cost to CCBC, then it should be restored, no question....but is it really that simple? Unless it is self sustaining, then it well may be another drain on CCBC funds in future.

How can CCBC get funding from the a fore mentioned funds, when the previous owner didn't/couldn't?
Was it due to it being a private enterprise, and any CCBC plan would be a 'not for profit' type scheme?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 28, 2014, 12:50:23 PM
Q. Is the Heritage Lottery Fund a bottomless pit ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 28, 2014, 12:59:21 PM
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If it can be restored without any cost to CCBC, then it should be restored, no question....but is it really that simple? Unless it is self sustaining, then it well may be another drain on CCBC funds in future.

How can CCBC get funding from the a fore mentioned funds, when the previous owner didn't/couldn't?
Was it due to it being a private enterprise, and any CCBC plan would be a 'not for profit' type scheme?
Yes, private businesses are not eligible for Lottery funding.

It does need to be self sustaining, without a doubt, and I think the right mix of attractions/facilities is absolutely key to this. It will never be a 'goldmine' for a private business, but a Trust might well be able to generate the funds to maintain it. I think they deserve the chance to try.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 28, 2014, 01:01:54 PM
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Q. Is the Heritage Lottery Fund a bottomless pit ?
Pretty much! The Fund is continually topped up through the sterling efforts of Lottery players.  :laugh: It has about £375m to spend every year.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 28, 2014, 02:08:05 PM
As much as I'd like the pier back there are surely better causes for the lottery fund to be spent on than a pier for old people to walk down.

It'll be a boost to local economy therefore it should be locally funded
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 28, 2014, 02:53:58 PM
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As much as I'd like the pier back there are surely better causes for the lottery fund to be spent on than a pier for old people to walk down.
it'll be a boost to local economy therefore it should be locally funded
Ask Fester what the ratio is between old and young visiting piers,....during my recent visit, I thought it was a good mix of ages,.... and as for CB pier and the new beach and Porth Eiris , that area is surely gearing up for young families.     

It would be locally funded, by those locals who buy lottery tickets. :)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 28, 2014, 03:01:56 PM
Apologies - after looking at their website I see compared to some of the other rubbish they fund the pier is quite worthy

http://www.hlf.org.uk/our-projects/gloucester-rugby-football-club-community-heritage-project (http://www.hlf.org.uk/our-projects/gloucester-rugby-football-club-community-heritage-project)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 28, 2014, 03:17:54 PM
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Apologies - after looking at their website I see compared to some of the other rubbish they fund the pier is quite worthy

http://www.hlf.org.uk/our-projects/gloucester-rugby-football-club-community-heritage-project (http://www.hlf.org.uk/our-projects/gloucester-rugby-football-club-community-heritage-project)

I have to agree.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on October 28, 2014, 09:07:43 PM
My concerns have always been about sustainability. I the 70s when the pier was owned by Parker Leisure, there were well known groups appearing, slot machines, kiosks etc, hotels still in Colwyn Bay and day trips via train. But it still didn't pay! Not as many people went abroad either - so how can anyone expect to generate enough income to maintain the place to avoid its deterioration again? I am not convinced that the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust will be capable of managing the project -they are a small group of well-meaning volunteers most of whom are retired, or have jobs that will make them unavailable to manage the site themselves,and very little cash in the pot. The Town Council are in the process of making sure that they will not have any liability that could end up as a continual burden on Council tax payers. The latest plan from the Heritage consultant, Edward Nash involves demolition but also preservation of the columns to support a new structure which could incorporate a focal point at that part of the promenade, some attractions and also historical images/references etc to provide a "legacy" of the history of the pier. I think that this is the most realistic option.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 29, 2014, 09:21:39 AM
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how can anyone expect to generate enough income to maintain the place to avoid its deterioration
I imagine you will be applying the same argument to the Porth Eirias building.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 29, 2014, 11:30:52 AM
Indeed. I've never entirely bought the "sustainability" argument in its narrow "accounting" sense (as I see piers as heritage that wealthy, advanced societies have a responsibility to protect).

But I do understand why it's used. All I would ask is that people apply it consistently. Apply it to all "non-essential" council spending, and see how that works out for you.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 29, 2014, 11:53:20 AM
If the pier had an entrance fee. Let's say £1

Who here would pay to go on it.

I have to say I probably wouldn't be too quick to shell out 4 quid for me and my family to spend half an hour walking on a pier, and I don't think that many other people would.

So how can it sustain itself?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 29, 2014, 12:22:06 PM
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If the pier had an entrance fee. Let's say £1

Who here would pay to go on it.

I have to say I probably wouldn't be too quick to shell out 4 quid for me and my family to spend half an hour walking on a pier, and I don't think that many other people would.

So how can it sustain itself?
No successful Pier has an admission charge, the key is to have free admission, with a range of revenue generating facilities and attractions to provide the cash needed to fund ongoing maintenance.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 29, 2014, 12:54:38 PM
I am coming around to the idea, that we are focusing on the pier, when we should be considering the bigger picture, there is a lot of talk about the resurgence of stay at home holidays, figures say the numbers are increasing, the government is spending millions on regenerating coastal resorts, as is private enterprise, look at Llandudno, two major redevelopment hotels, costing ten million each, they do not spend that amount on a whim, the smaller hotels, some of the best in the country, are upgrading and expanding.  etc  etc.
North Wales as a whole is a top destination, Llandudno has the accommodation, Conwy has the castle and Colwyn Bay .........
The cost of regeneration between Old Colwyn and Rhos point when finished is estimated at £100,000,000. after taking off the sea defence costs, you have....
 Parc Eirias...sport and culture...Porth Eirias....new beach and watersports centre..and a two mile improved prom.

Parc Eirias is a draw, but not a tourist attraction, that leaves Porth Eirias and the Prom. and I think we have to build on what is there, and the money already spent, without "an Attraction" you are left with "The Skip", which brings us back to the pier, I now believe, not only, that it has to be saved, but more needs to be done in that area to make Colwyn Bay/Rhos a serious tourist attraction.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 29, 2014, 02:44:42 PM
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I am coming around to the idea, that we are focusing on the pier, when we should be considering the bigger picture, there is a lot of talk about the resurgence of stay at home holidays, figures say the numbers are increasing, the government is spending millions on regenerating coastal resorts, as is private enterprise, look at Llandudno, two major redevelopment hotels, costing ten million each, they do not spend that amount on a whim, the smaller hotels, some of the best in the country, are upgrading and expanding.  etc  etc.
North Wales as a whole is a top destination, Llandudno has the accommodation, Conwy has the castle and Colwyn Bay .........
The cost of regeneration between Old Colwyn and Rhos point when finished is estimated at £100,000,000. after taking off the sea defence costs, you have....
 Parc Eirias...sport and culture...Porth Eirias....new beach and watersports centre..and a two mile improved prom.

Parc Eirias is a draw, but not a tourist attraction, that leaves Porth Eirias and the Prom. and I think we have to build on what is there, and the money already spent, without "an Attraction" you are left with "The Skip", which brings us back to the pier, I now believe, not only, that it has to be saved, but more needs to be done in that area to make Colwyn Bay/Rhos a serious tourist attraction.
I agree, and where the Pier can play a major part in the regeneration is by providing:

1) Catering facilities, i.e cafe and bar with fantastic views over the shoreline
2) Amusements.
3) Hall for exhibitions/events etc.

I think that the Pier could be shortened to its original length (to reduce ongoing maintenance costs) and still be able to accommodate all of these facilities easily.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 29, 2014, 03:00:01 PM
That 40s Festival in the bay was quite brilliant

Imagine how much better it would be on the pier! Proper seaside entertainment  $walesflag$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 29, 2014, 03:24:31 PM
Hi DaveR,    Agreed, but I still think it needs something else, sustainability has been brought up a lot, and the three
points you mentioned are what is expected from a pier, and as Fester has pointed out business is not that good even with the footfall of that pier,....so it needs something that you want to visit, I am sure there are some good ideas out there, something for all age groups.
The picture is an idea from the original pier redevelopment plan.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on October 29, 2014, 04:18:06 PM
Big Wheel - Rhyl used to have one of them - don't think it's there anymore so don't think it's much of a money spinner   D) pardon the pun

A kids play adventure thing - like Peabody's on the Llandudno pier - but with an indoor bit - like the cash cow Bonkerz would make a lot of money $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 01, 2014, 12:57:30 PM
I had been looking at other seaside resort attractions, for ideas, found some big and small potential projects, when I noticed our poll, the number of votes to demolish it are growing, it made me think what will happen To C.B. without tourist input, businesses (shops restaurants jobs etc.) will not invest in the town.
The majority of successful resorts have a pier as the focal point of their "town",.... the "town" as a whole reaps the benefits,......C.B. has a pier and has had £100,000,000 spent around it, if we do not to take advantage of this opportunity, I feel the town will lose out, remember it's not just the pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 01, 2014, 04:29:28 PM
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I had been looking at other seaside resort attractions, for ideas, found some big and small potential projects, when I noticed our poll, the number of votes to demolish it are growing, it made me think what will happen To C.B. without tourist input, businesses (shops restaurants jobs etc.) will not invest in the town.
The majority of successful resorts have a pier as the focal point of their "town",.... the "town" as a whole reaps the benefits,......C.B. has a pier and has had £100,000,000 spent around it, if we do not to take advantage of this opportunity, I feel the town will lose out, remember it's not just the pier.
I agree. If they can attract HLF funding for the renovation, then what's not to like about keeping it? CCBC should not have been so hasty to buy it if they didn't want to keep it.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on November 01, 2014, 07:25:33 PM
When you think of all the money they've pumped into "Bay Life Plus" (much of it not remotely "sustainable") - how they've tied themselves in knots trying to figure out how to "regenerate" Colwyn Bay. You'd think the one place they'd start is by exploring all the ways possible to restore the pier to some semblance of glory.

But many of them seem to have done the exact opposite, right from the start - lobbying and spinning for its demolition, regardless of public opinion, regardless of all the work that went into successfully getting a lottery fund grant.

And of course, the longer it drags on, the more people feel it should be demolished, rightly or wrongly. We forget that it's only just over a year ago when everything was looking rosy - a lottery fund grant had been awarded (£594,900) with an indication of more to come, and some very positive words from the Heritage Lottery Fund on the potential of the pier to restore the town.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 01, 2014, 09:14:55 PM
BMD,  ...Your  words..."the potential of the pier to restore the town."    Perfect wording this is not about saving the pier, it is about saving Colwyn Bay.....I have said before it is no longer a holiday resort, but the potential to draw short term visitors and day trippers is right there, to build on whats been done already.
Without tourism what else is going to bring money to the town?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: stymaster on November 05, 2014, 01:23:04 PM
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No successful Pier has an admission charge, the key is to have free admission, with a range of revenue generating facilities and attractions to provide the cash needed to fund ongoing maintenance.

Weston-super-Mare does, but it has attracted criticism.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g191282-d212968-Reviews-Grand_Pier-Weston_super_Mare_Somerset_England.html (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g191282-d212968-Reviews-Grand_Pier-Weston_super_Mare_Somerset_England.html)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 06, 2014, 11:52:46 AM
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BMD,  ...Your  words..."the potential of the pier to restore the town."    Perfect wording this is not about saving the pier, it is about saving Colwyn Bay.....I have said before it is no longer a holiday resort, but the potential to draw short term visitors and day trippers is right there, to build on whats been done already.
Without tourism what else is going to bring money to the town?

I have just had a look at Colwyn Bay "things to do" on Tripadvisor, and there is not a great deal to encourage visitor numbers.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attractions-g551979-Activities-Colwyn_Bay_Conwy_County_North_Wales_Wales.html (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attractions-g551979-Activities-Colwyn_Bay_Conwy_County_North_Wales_Wales.html)

Check out the comments

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on November 06, 2014, 12:06:24 PM
"Colwyn Bay has a pretty dire pub culture.Only Weatherspoons is any good.The Royal is a grim place,daylong drinkers who seem to consume booze and in the pub porch smoke cigs seem to be the customer base in the day.Night is no better.Arguing drunk couples.Its a terrible hole."

but to be fair to the place

"drinkers who seem to consume booze"

 :o WHAT! Consume booze, in a PUB - NEVER!! Z**

What a numpty
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 06, 2014, 04:43:39 PM
"In 2012, there were 9.6 million overnight trips to Wales by GB residents.  The associated spend was £1,588 million
62% of GB visitors to Wales came for a holiday, 25% to visit friends or relatives and 13% on business"

"The Great Britain Day Visits survey indicates that around 100 million day visits are made to destinations in Wales annually with expenditure amounting to over £3 billion."

"The exceptional performance of the UK tourism industry has been
highlighted by the ONS recently reporting that tourism businesses had
provided almost a third of all additional jobs created in the UK economy
between 2010 and 2013. Research by VisitBritain concludes that this
growth means that tourism-related employment now accounts for 3.1m
jobs in the UK – this is almost 10% of the entire UK workforce." 

The need for more all weather attractions...   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 08, 2014, 02:04:39 PM
I am not sure if this affects the pier, needs reading by someone who understands government speak....(Admin please move or delete as appropriate)

COMMUNITY POLICY SHELVED: A policy which could make it easier for community groups in Wales to take over facilities like swimming pools and pubs when they are put up for sale has been abandoned by ministers.
Community assets in England must all be kept on a list by councils who give local groups first refusal if they are sold.
But ministers want to develop an approach "better suited" to Wales.
Critics say they cannot understand the decision.
Under the Localism Act, councils in England keep a register of "assets of community value".
These could include libraries, playing fields and shops.
If they come up for sale, community groups or parish councils are given a six month window to put together a bid to buy them on behalf of local people.
The Welsh government's communities minister had been considering enacting the legislation in Wales but last month she decided against the idea because she wants to spend time developing "an approach which is better suited to the Welsh context".

http://wales.gov.uk/about/cabinet/cabinetstatements/2014/assetsofcommunityvalue/?lang=en (http://wales.gov.uk/about/cabinet/cabinetstatements/2014/assetsofcommunityvalue/?lang=en)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 10, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
COLWYN VICTORIA PIER TRUST

Members of the above were in Colwyn Bay shopping centre today, raising signatures to save the pier and putting forward some ideas for its future....Health and fitness theme in partnership with Llandrillo College, with related concession stalls...serious of tracks for walking, cycling,running and hurdles..a massive acrylic mirror/projector for special events....high impact low energy LED lights....evening entertainment such as Roller Discos,Zero to Hero nights, fashion shows and circus events etc.
A very positive group, with confidence that they will succeed. I wish them  ££$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 11, 2014, 09:09:58 AM
I'm sure everyone on the Forum wishes them the best of luck with seeing the Pier restored.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on November 11, 2014, 09:42:18 AM
What's interested me is that out of the 32 members to vote only just over half think the entire pier should be renovated.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 11, 2014, 10:11:00 AM
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What's interested me is that out of the 32 members to vote only just over half think the entire pier should be renovated.
...but a clear majority of 65% think that the pier should be renovated in some form, with at least £5m being spent.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 11, 2014, 11:54:57 AM
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What's interested me is that out of the 32 members to vote only just over half think the entire pier should be renovated.
...but a clear majority of 65% think that the pier should be renovated in some form, with at least £5m being spent.
I should have pointed out that CVPT are quoting estimates of " £6.3m to restore both pier and pavilion structure with private investment for the interior fit out as a cafe/restaurant, creative workspace and public art platform based on the fun palace ideas of Joan Littlewood."..
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/joan-littlewood
"Health and fitness theme in partnership with Llandrillo College offering wide range of training and qualifications for the local young people and those wanting to retrain in later life"

I sat in Colwyn Bay yesterday thinking about our discussions on the forums three CB threads and concluded, it all comes down to "footfall", every town in the UK is talking about regeneration, organizing Town Teams and BIDs all with the aim of increasing footfall, and taking every opportunity to do so,..... every opportunity.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 11, 2014, 12:51:01 PM
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I should have pointed out that CVPT are quoting estimates of " £6.3m to restore both pier and pavilion structure with private investment for the interior fit out as a cafe/restaurant, creative workspace and public art platform based on the fun palace ideas of Joan Littlewood."..
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/joan-littlewood
That sounds like a far more realistic figure than the 'pie in the sky' figure of £15m that appeared out of nowhere last year.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: majormellons on November 11, 2014, 02:41:37 PM
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I'm sure everyone on the Forum wishes them the best of luck with seeing the Pier restored.  $good$

Please don't include me in your 'everybody'.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on November 11, 2014, 03:09:29 PM
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I should have pointed out that CVPT are quoting estimates of " £6.3m to restore both pier and pavilion structure with private investment for the interior fit out."..

That's interesting. Do you a link for that, Steve (I couldn't find it at the Guardian Joan Littlewood link you provided)?

It certainly does sound more realistic than the £15m scare-figure, and more in keeping with some of the other estimates I've seen:

The original estimates cited by the council in 2010 were:

♦ Demolition of pier: £1.2m
♦ Rebuilding the basic pier (as a “boardwalk”):  £3.5m
♦ Rebuilding pier + “basic pavilion”: £5.5m

New figures were cited for the demolition vote (Dec 2013):

♦ Demolition: £1m
♦ Basic “boardwalk” pier refurbishment: £3.7m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new kiosks: £4.1m
♦ Pier + main pavilion refurbishment:  £8.9m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new build (as per HLF bid): £11.5m

These figures are from: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/62501/response/160207/attach/html/9/Minutes%207%20Oct%20and%202%20Dec%202010.pdf.html (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/62501/response/160207/attach/html/9/Minutes%207%20Oct%20and%202%20Dec%202010.pdf.html) and http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf)

The £15m figure, incidentally, was arrived at by adding a seemingly arbitrary £4m (approx) for "contingency and possible inflation" to the already (to my mind) inflated £11.5m figure.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 11, 2014, 05:37:22 PM
Hi BMD,  Sorry no link, figures from CVPT info sheet, their breakdown of the £6.3m is £2.5m for the pier structure and £3.8m for the Pavilion restoration to include  cafe/restaurant, creative workspace and public art platform.
There was a hint of a private investor for the pier entrance structure? approx £1m.
The Ravilious and Adshead murals .....could be to far gone to be rescued?.

They are currently finalising a new Heritage Lottery fund bid with a deadline of 30th nov.2014

Engineers report....Columns generally in good condition no worse than any pier in the country....."On the whole demolition would be a waste of a pier, and a loss of great significance "

You can contact them on Email, details on the photo above.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on November 11, 2014, 08:04:59 PM
Phoo-- I can't see anyone getting permission to open a restaurant so near to Porth Erias!!!! :-X
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 11, 2014, 08:10:10 PM
How do you vote? Is there a link somewhere please?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 11, 2014, 08:18:14 PM
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How do you vote? Is there a link somewhere please?
Hi Viv, The only vote is the forum vote above.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 11, 2014, 08:21:58 PM
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Phoo-- I can't see anyone getting permission to open a restaurant so near to Porth Erias!!!! :-X

First come first served... :) ....But I say the more the merrier, restaurants have become good attractions. $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 11, 2014, 09:00:50 PM
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I should have pointed out that CVPT are quoting estimates of " £6.3m to restore both pier and pavilion structure with private investment for the interior fit out as a cafe/restaurant, creative workspace and public art platform based on the fun palace ideas of Joan Littlewood."..
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/joan-littlewood
That sounds like a far more realistic figure than the 'pie in the sky' figure of £15m that appeared out of nowhere last year.
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I'm sure everyone on the Forum wishes them the best of luck with seeing the Pier restored.  $good$

Please don't include me in your 'everybody'.

Please don't include me either!

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Phoo-- I can't see anyone getting permission to open a restaurant so near to Porth Erias!!!! :-X

First come first served... :) ....But I say the more the merrier, restaurants have become good attractions. $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 11, 2014, 09:03:16 PM
I would support demolition apart from the front part up to the bit that goes out to the bandstand.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on November 11, 2014, 09:36:27 PM
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They are currently finalising a new Heritage Lottery fund bid with a deadline of 30th nov.2014

I admire their persistence. It's clear that they - and not the council - are representing majority public opinion. I hope they get a lucky break on lottery funding.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2nuk96h.jpg)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on November 11, 2014, 10:40:52 PM
As I have said in the past, they built the skip, ( no idea why?) so now they are lumbered with it they will not want the pier to compete with it in the future! Although as there is almost nothing in the skip an empty shed could be regarded as competition! 😕
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 12, 2014, 11:12:38 PM
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How do you vote? Is there a link somewhere please?
Hi Viv, The only vote is the forum vote above.

That's what I meant -how do you vote in the forum please?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on November 13, 2014, 07:08:24 AM
Just go up to the first posting in the topic and place your vote in there.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on November 13, 2014, 07:57:53 AM
How about a poll with the option of demolition of the skip?  WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 13, 2014, 08:53:42 AM
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How about a poll with the option of demolition of the skip?  WWW
What a good idea!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 13, 2014, 04:09:06 PM
Website for the Group seeking to restore the Pier:

http://www.colwynpier.org.uk/ (http://www.colwynpier.org.uk/)

The Grade II listed Victoria Pier is one of only 31 surviving open-structure piers with iron columns in the UK. It has been at risk since the mid-1970s. In 2013 it was successfully awarded a £5m in-principle HLF grant with £594,000 to work up detailed plans. But Conwy Council chose not to accept the grant and are now trying to demolish it.

It’s not too late…
The columns are generally in good condition – no worse than the majority of piers around the country. Three independent engineers (Peter Wheeler, the engineer from Hastings Pier Charity, Nick Clarke of Ramboll, and Roger Speakman of FPE Group) have all challenged the council’s interpretation of the Datry’s reports. Their conclusion is “on the whole demolition would seem a waste of the pier” and “the loss of Colwyn would be of great significance”. Victoria Pier needs emergency works to prevent partial collapse and then a process of systematic repair.

Our plans are better than the original – more viable, less expensive, better social outcomes, and more commercially sustainable.

Imagine the future…
•    the 1900 substructure is completely restored, creating a stable platform over the sea (£2.5m)
•    a new building replaces the carbuncle at the pier entrance – a Health, Fitness & Beauty Centre that combines attractive offers to the general public with a wide range of training and qualification opportunities for local young people and those wanting to retrain later in life (£1.4m for core – fit-out by private investor)
•    the 1933 Pavilion, an early example of art for the public, is stripped back and restored as a café-restaurant, prestige creative workspaces and public art platform, potentially drawing on the Fun Palace ideas of Joan Littlewood. The Ravilious and Adshead murals are too far gone to rescue but their heritage can be honoured by commissioning a new public art piece that reminds us of the importance of art to ordinary people (£3.8m)
•    the deck is restored into a series of ‘tracks’ for walking, running, cycling, hurdles etc. Alongside these are a series of health-related concession stalls (smoothies, healthy foods, fitness retail, etc). Cutting-edge health technologies are integrated throughout to introduce the new digital health apps to a wider public.
•    at the seaward end of the pier is a massive acrylic outdoor mirror that reflects the bay and the town, the sea and the light, and is something fun and interesting to cycle, run or walk towards. The acrylic could have other images and light shows projected onto it for special events.
•    at night the pier is lit up with high-impact low-energy LED displays that attract people to evening activities such as roller discos, ‘zero to hero’ fight nights, fashion shows, and circus events

The new HLF bid sees the whole pier as an anchor to improve the HEALTH of the residents and visitors of the North Wales coast. The Health, Fitness & Beauty (HFB) Centre is a commercial opportunity offering (through partnership with Llandrillo College) significant LEARNING outcomes. The HFB Centre, the Pavilion and the concessions all offer opportunities for enterprise and employment that drive local PROSPERITY.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on November 13, 2014, 04:36:40 PM
Thanks for that, DaveR.  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 13, 2014, 05:09:28 PM
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Thanks for that, DaveR.  $good$
Yes well done, gives every one the chance to put their point of view forward, in the community survey section, and the opportunity for those in favour to show their support by joining CVPT.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on November 13, 2014, 11:53:02 PM
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Just go up to the first posting in the topic and place your vote in there.

In due respect to Viv, I don't think it is as easy as that Ian,  I stumbled around a bit before placing my vote.
For the uninitiated, it's not always obvious where you 'click' to place your vote.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on November 14, 2014, 08:17:10 AM
Quote
In due respect to Viv, I don't think it is as easy as that Ian,  I stumbled around a bit before placing my vote.   For the uninitiated, it's not always obvious where you 'click' to place your vote.

It seems not. I suspect a setting has been (inadvertently) changed, so I'll potter about and see what's happened. Meanwhile, apologies, viv.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on November 14, 2014, 08:24:27 AM
Viv: this is what you ought to be seeing in the Poll panel:

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The options are clearly shown and there's a fairly prominent 'submit' button in blue.  If you're not seeing that, however, it might be because you've already voted and forgotten, or because someone else has voted under your name. I logged in as an ordinary member and that's what I saw.

Oops - nearly forgot.  For ME...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: mull on November 14, 2014, 08:45:58 AM
Fester "stumbled around a bit".
Was this after the visit to Conway ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 14, 2014, 08:55:10 AM
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Fester "stumbled around a bit".
Was this after the visit to Conway ?
I suspect it may have been...  :laugh:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 19, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
The saga continues...

£8.5m Lottery funding bid to save Colwyn Bay Pier
Published date: 19 November 2014 | Published by: Dean Jones

FINAL preparations are being made to an £8.5 million funding application which could save the derelict Colwyn Bay pier.

Campaigners are finalising the Heritage Lottery Fund application to transform the pier, a move backed by Colwyn Bay Town Council, which signed a “memorandum of understanding” to enter a partnership with the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust in regards to the application.

Cllr John Reaney, chair of the Policy and Finance Committee, said the council had voted to support the “business aspect” of the proposal, but they were waiting to see the full facts before deciding whether or not the application was financially viable for the area.

He said: “We have twice voted in support of this application, but we need to get all the facts and figures before we can explain to whether or not the proposal is going to benefit the area financially.

“There is undoubtedly a great deal of work that needs to be done and it is quite a divisive issue, so while we have agreed to support the proposal, it would be difficult to commit to a finalised plan until the full application has been seen.”

Trust members have been working with members of the Hastings Pier Trust during the formation of the application, who generated £15 million to save the town’s pier through various funding avenues.

A decision on the Heritage Lottery Fund Application could be made as early as April, 2015.

The final court hearing in the ownership row over the pier between Conwy County Council and businessman Steve Hunt was adjourned until November 26 and 27.

The case was pushed back several months during what was due to be a three-day High Court hearing in August.

Conwy Council was awarded a £5 million “in principle” grant from the HLF in 2013, but councillors rejected the grant and instead voted for demolition in December.


http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/140914/-8-5m-lottery-funding-bid-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/140914/-8-5m-lottery-funding-bid-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on November 19, 2014, 12:48:26 PM
Best of luck to them... ££$  I am surprised the poll has not had more votes  34 out of 1134 members hardly a good turnout.....maybe it needed a fourth option....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: viv on November 21, 2014, 04:55:29 PM
The court case in Cardiff to make a final decision on the Pier case has again been adjourned today as Steve Hunt has put in another appeal.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Tom Davidson on November 21, 2014, 05:50:48 PM
Bureaucracy in action.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on November 22, 2014, 09:42:54 AM
 I once met Steve Hunt around about 8 years ago when he was still running the pier. I was subjected to a nonstop verbal assault directed at Conwy council. I more or less agreed with parts of what he was saying, but after an hour or so I had heard enough to last me a lifetime.
  Since then we have never met but, of course, I've followed all his manoeuvres in and out of court and become more and more disenchanted with him and his schemes as time has passed.
  Why in Heaven,s name cannot someone start some sort of proceedings that results in Mr Hunt paying for all these legal schnanigans out of his own no doubt empty pocket. Win or Loose. Mr hunt pays.
  Then perhaps we might all be able to move forward
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 22, 2014, 10:09:39 AM
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I once met Steve Hunt around about 8 years ago when he was still running the pier. I was subjected to a nonstop verbal assault directed at Conwy council. I more or less agreed with parts of what he was saying, but after an hour or so I had heard enough to last me a lifetime.
  Since then we have never met but, of course, I've followed all his manoeuvres in and out of court and become more and more disenchanted with him and his schemes as time has passed.
  Why in Heaven,s name cannot someone start some sort of proceedings that results in Mr Hunt paying for all these legal schnanigans out of his own no doubt empty pocket. Win or Loose. Mr hunt pays.
  Then perhaps we might all be able to move forward
Absolutely right, Mike. It's very apparent now that the future of the Pier itself is of no interest to him; it's purely a battle between himself and CCBC.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on November 22, 2014, 11:34:51 AM
Yes and this shower ccbc don,t care how much of Our money they waste .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 28, 2014, 12:35:14 PM
Court case over future of Colwyn Bay Pier adjourned

Published date: 28 November 2014 |
Published by: Dean Jones

THE court case regarding the ownership of Colwyn Bay Pier has been adjourned.

Businessman Steve Hunt and Conwy County Council were set for a two-day hearing to decide the future of the Pier on Thursday at Cardiff County Court.

However, proceedings were once again delayed “due to separate proceedings being brought by Mr Hunt in respect of a bankruptcy issue against another party”, according to a Conwy Council spokesperson.

This is the latest in a series of delays surrounding the case, which was initially pushed back several months during what was to be a three-day High Court hearing in August.

Campaigners to save the Pier will be submitting their £8.5 million Heritage Lottery Fund application to transform the pier on Sunday, according to Victoria Pier Trust member Chris Hemmings.

It is a move that has been backed by Colwyn Bay Town Council, which signed a “memorandum of understanding” to enter a partnership with the trust in regards to the application.

Trust members have been working with members of the Hastings Pier Trust during the formation of the application, who generated £15 million to save the town’s pier through various funding avenues.

A decision on the Heritage Lottery Fund Application could be made as early as April, 2015.

Conwy Council was awarded a £5 million “in principle” grant from the HLF in 2013, but councillors rejected the grant and instead voted for demolition in December.

http://northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/141329/court-case-over-future-of-colwyn-bay-pier-adjourned.aspx (http://northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/141329/court-case-over-future-of-colwyn-bay-pier-adjourned.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 08, 2015, 08:48:32 PM
A presentation on plans for Colwyn Bay pier has been covered by the Pioneer's twitter feed in the last hour or so. Some highlights:

Change in Hastings "profound" since town won fight to save their pier. Steele: "This is a once in a lifetime choice." Bid £9.6m in total.

Heritage Lottery Fund team to visit Pier in second half of February. Decision to be made in April.

Aim to make Colwyn Bay Pier "a health pier for the 21st century".

Steele: "Colwyn Bay pier needs to be in the hands of a not for profit organisation." Huge economic benefits surrounding plans.

Health, fitness and beauty centre to be constructed at pier entrance. Cafe and restaurant in pavilion.

Steele: "columns are in a better state than those at Hastings. The cause is not too far gone."

If bid successful, work could begin on Pier as early as June 15.

Steele: "if successful this would reconnect the Pier and the town."

Conwy Council's estimate of £560,000 for professional fees "way off the mark" according to Steele, estimates at £220,000.

Demolition would be more than £1m estimate by Conwy Council to demolish Pier. Left out EU money due to "risk" associated.

Opportunity for public to "share ideas" on the Pier before April. Support could convince Heritage Lottery.

Cllr David Griffiths, raises car parking concerns, jokes about "unused" Porth Eirias site as possible parking location.

Trust say they have had support from all over the world to save the Pier.

Steele: "should bid be successful investors would take a different approach towards Colwyn Bay."

(The person referred to, who gave the presentation, is Jess Steele from Jericho Road Solutions, which apparently specialises in local community ownership and management of piers: http://www.jerichoroad.co.uk/peoples-piers.html (http://www.jerichoroad.co.uk/peoples-piers.html))

https://twitter.com/NWPioneer (https://twitter.com/NWPioneer)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 08, 2015, 11:15:25 PM
A cafe on the pier could well be open before the bistro in the skip!  :twoface:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 13, 2015, 12:32:04 PM
Victoria Pier demolition plans to go on public display

Published date: 13 January 2015
Published by: Matt Jones



Conwy County Borough Council will be submitting an application for permission to demolish the pier on health and safety grounds.

WITH substantial parts of Colwyn Bay's Victoria Pier at "serious risk of collapse", plans for its demolition will go on public display.

Later this month Conwy County Borough Council will be submitting an application for permission to demolish the pier on health and safety grounds.

Proposals will be on display between Monday, January 19 and Friday, January 23 between midday and 7pm in the Bay View Centre, opposite Argos.

A council spokesman said: "Consultant engineers have said Victoria Pier Colwyn Bay can no longer be considered stable and substantial parts of it are now at serious risk of collapse; with a recent independent report stating that 75 per of the structural parts have either visibly failed or have corroded so much they no longer provide the strength required.

"Members of the public are invited to view the proposals and find out more about the reasons behind the difficult decision to demolish."

The planning application and listed building consent application will request permission to remove all the decks, the balustrading and support structures, and the pavilion, but to leave 66 per cent of the cast iron columns in place.

It is s also proposed to raise the stone retaining walls to create a safe viewing point and develop a display about the Pier’s history.

A wider programme of community engagement and involvement to mark the history of the Pier is also proposed, so as to help mitigate its loss.

Cllr Dilwyn Roberts, leader of Conwy County Borough Council said: “We know that the Pier Trust hopes to restore the Pier and has submitted a bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund, but we have to prepare for the worst and at this point in time the Pier is a danger to the public and a significant drain on scarce public resources.

"In light of these the health and safety implications, we are submitting our application now, in parallel to the Pier Trust/Town Council HLF application.

“The exhibition aims to explain the background to the council’s difficult decision to demolish and shows the proposals that will be submitted to planning, including keeping the ornate columns standing on the beach.”

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/142930/victoria-pier-demolition-plans-to-go-on-public-display.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/142930/victoria-pier-demolition-plans-to-go-on-public-display.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 13, 2015, 02:47:51 PM
Consultant engineers have said Victoria Pier Colwyn Bay can no longer be considered stable and substantial parts of it are now at serious risk of collapse; with a recent independent report stating that 75 per of the structural parts have either visibly failed or have corroded so much they no longer provide the strength required.


I do not believe a single word of this.   &shake& &shake&

Nothing material can have changed since the Datry's report which mentioned the inherent strength of the piles, columns and steel work of the pier.   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on January 13, 2015, 03:08:52 PM
Quote
I do not believe a single word of this.

It should be fairly straightforward to prove or disprove. There are many independent chartered engineers around.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 13, 2015, 03:44:08 PM
...... and they all charge a King's ransom in order to reach a conclusion.

The Datrey's report is about 3 years old now, and detailed every facet of CB Pier.

In Summary, the vast majority of the upper superstructure is terrible and unsafe, and the vast majority of the ironwork is either fine, or fixable.

Dave R gave me a hard copy of the detailed report, which I read every page of, with enthusiasm.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 13, 2015, 07:22:46 PM
Here's a fairly typical excerpt from the Datrys structural appraisal (2010):

The cast iron piles and columns did not exhibit any structurally significant
defects and no signs of excessive corrosion were noted. The joints between
the low level piles and upper columns were intact and appeared to be
adequately sealed. In our opinion these members could be retained and
refurbished.

The bottom rails (struts) extending between the piles did not exhibit
structurally significant defects and no signs of excessive corrosion were
noted. However, the majority of the end connections for these members had
failed or were in poor condition, and would need to be replaced.


I've uploaded the full Datrys structural & superstructure appraisals (pdf format) to my blog, links here:
https://colwynbay.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/pd-cb-pier-main-structure-report-2-28-04-10.pdf
https://colwynbay.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/pd-cb-pier-pavillion-structures-appended-report-3-23-8-10.pdf

The structural appraisal from Datrys Consulting Engineers (2010) was apparently good enough for the council to base their decisions on just over a year ago. Bowen Consultants (used by the council) did the estimations which led to the (over-inflated) £15m renovation estimate (their report of December 2013 says that their costs are based on Datrys's 2010 structural appraisal).

So, what exactly is the new report cited by the recent Pioneer article ("recent independent report stating that 75 per of the structural parts have either visibly failed or have corroded so much they no longer provide the strength required.") - and where can it be accessed and scrutinised?

How can a structure that's lasted for so long, and appraised as largely "sound" and fixable (with replacements of some elements needed) - not to mention being the basis for an awarded lottery fund grant of £594,000 in May 2013 - deteriorate in just 4 years from the Datrys report to a state which the council would have us believe justifies urgent demolition of whole structure on safety grounds?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on January 13, 2015, 07:47:35 PM
Quote
So, what exactly is the new report cited by the recent Pioneer article ("recent independent report stating that 75 per of the structural parts have either visibly failed or have corroded so much they no longer provide the strength required.") - and where can it be accessed and scrutinised?

A very good question.  Let's see if anyone in CCBC has the decency to respond.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Yorkie on January 14, 2015, 09:10:40 AM
I think that the structure has been declared unfit due to that unseen hazard that all steel structures suffer, Metal Fatigue.  This is something that cannot be seen and generally only found by non- destructive testing.   The material may look sound, strong and suitable for the loads, dynamic and static, that it is designed to carry, but underneath the surface could lie a major problem.  One extra force on the structure could result in a calamity.

Just think of the wind factor that has destroyed many bridges over past years!  And, indeed, many other steel constructions.
 ZXZ
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Tom Davidson on January 14, 2015, 09:48:24 AM
I gather Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust are also going to set up a display in the Bay View Shopping Centre next week - to show what could be done if the pier was restored. It'll be like the Jets v the Sharks in West Side Story, haha.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 14, 2015, 09:51:55 AM
I don't think that anyone who has ever witnessed the battering the Pier takes in a Winter Storm can doubt that its a lot better shape than CCBC want to admit.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on January 21, 2015, 08:34:46 AM
CCBC's Ridiculous Ideas Department have come up with a new idea for Colwyn Bay Pier:

Colwyn Bay pier's first pavilion could return in grand light project

Jan 19, 2015 20:00
By Jez Hemming


Demolition plan for historic Victorian pier could see columns left behind and iconic building brought back to life

A ghostly projection of Colwyn Bay Pier’s first pavilion could replace the landmark in the event of its demolition.

The columns which currently support the 115-year-old pier could also be left on the beach and illuminated under another proposal for the site’s future.

The town’s Victoria Pier is the subject of a dispute between Conwy Council, who want to demolish the ageing structure, and Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust, who want to redevelop it for community use.

The council announced plans to demolish the majority of the grade II listed boardwalk last week, leaving just 66% of the columns as a memorial to the attraction. A number of different configurations for the remaining columns have been proposed.

Artist’s impressions which accompany the council’s proposals for the site show the columns illuminated and a viewing platform at the sea wall.

Another option shows an image of the grand pavilion which stood on the pier in 1901 projected onto netting.

Town councillor John Reaney said both proposals looked “ridiculous”.

He said: “To be perfectly honest, I can’t say whether the pier should go to demolition or it shouldn’t. I would rather we had something there or nothing there.

“Both of the suggestions look ridiculous to me. The columns left standing don’t exactly look like the men at Crosby beach.

“I think the hologram won’t work in the day, so it’s just stupid.”

The council says the pier is beyond repair, but the pier trust maintains that three engineers have contradicted the authority’s findings.

A Heritage Lottery bid to restore the pier was withdrawn in 2013, after the county council withdrew its support despite the pier being awarded £5m in principle.

The pier trust needs a statutory body to act as a partner in order to make a bid. The town council has stepped in to support the trust’s application and a new lottery bid is imminent.

The council and pier trust are currently holding public consultations about their respective campaigns at the Bay View shopping centre in Colwyn Bay.

Gavin Davies, chair of the trust, said of the plan to keep the columns on the beach: “I just can’t believe they are even thinking of doing that. I am lost for words. It’s a joke. I suppose it’s somewhere to put your coat if you go down to the beach.

“At the moment, Conwy Council is putting in £53,000 a year just to keep it as it is.

“Our proposal will cost the council nothing - it’s a no-brainer. The council tax payer does not want to pay for columns sticking out of the sand. The council need to go back to the drawing board.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-piers-first-8475610 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/look-colwyn-bay-piers-first-8475610)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on January 21, 2015, 08:46:30 AM
Quote
CCBC's Ridiculous Ideas Department have come up with a new idea for Colwyn Bay Pier

"CCBC RID"...  Certain poetry in that acronym, Dave :-))))

Hard to know where to start, isn't it? The projection is simply a daft idea. And if the supports are sufficiently robust to be left around then it begs the question of why they can't carry some weight - like decking.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on January 21, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
If they're going to leave the columns, why not leave a basic minimum pier? The published estimate for basic boardwalk refurbishment was £2.7m more than for demolition (with demolition conservatively estimated at £1m). If they didn't even take it as far as opening for public use (yet), but just did the minimum necessary to keep it in decent state (minus all the rotting eyesore structures on it) that would presumably be less still. And it gives them the option to develop further in the future. Important heritage retained.

If they demolish (which is likely to cost much more than £1m, by most informed accounts), then leave the columns, then come up with some ridiculous proposal to pretty it up - with a hologram of a backwards-somersaulting mermaid in a CCBC clown suit with bells on, whatever - then by the time the farce is over, they may have spent more, all told, than if they'd just got on and repaired the basics. (As for "sustainability" of whatever they do, the words Porth Eirias come to mind).

But, unfortunately, it all stinks of damage limitation and PR to me - not rational consideration at all.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on January 22, 2015, 12:24:21 AM
It would appear that CCBC know the 'Price' of everything, and the 'Value' of nothing.   &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 20, 2015, 01:32:49 PM
Colwyn Bay Victoria Trust is asking people to join a rally in a last attempt to save the pier. The idea is to show the Heritage Lottery Fund representatives the amount of public support for the pier when they visit next week (Friday 27th February).

Friday 27th February for a final rally
 
This is it. A team from the Heritage Lottery Fund will visit Colwyn Bay on Friday 27th February as they decide whether to grant us £9million to save, restore and breathe fresh life into Victoria Pier.

This will be our LAST CHANCE to impress the funders. If our bid fails, Victoria Pier will almost certainly be bulldozed, sold for scrap, and lost forever.

If you care about our heritage... if you care about Colwyn Bay... if you care about taking opportunities to make something better for ourselves and others... please join us on the promenade by the pier at 1pm on Friday 27th February for a mass rally to show the Heritage Lottery Fund how much Victoria Pier means to us.

More details: https://notjustpr.leadpages.net/colwynbaypier/
 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 16, 2015, 10:17:56 AM
A decision will be released on April 28th regarding whether grant money will be awarded for the renovation of the pier:
http://northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/146749/colwyn-bay-pier-trust-remain-hopeful-ahead-of-crucial-fortnight.aspx (http://northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/146749/colwyn-bay-pier-trust-remain-hopeful-ahead-of-crucial-fortnight.aspx)

Good luck to the Pier Trust!  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 29, 2015, 10:38:30 AM
Today should have been the day when the decision was announced regarding grant funding for Colwyn Bay Pier. However, it has had to be delayed due to the Election and it will now be May 8th at the earliest. If the funding is not forthcoming then the pier will have to be demolished.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 29, 2015, 12:51:37 PM
What does Lottery grant funding have to do with politics?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 29, 2015, 02:50:59 PM
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What does Lottery grant funding have to do with politics?
Hopefully, nothing. Just a nonsense rule that is in place.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: alw on May 20, 2015, 07:01:44 AM
The Lottery Fund application has failed

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-piers-future-doubt-9290819 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-piers-future-doubt-9290819)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 20, 2015, 07:37:00 AM
Thanks very much CCBC!  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 20, 2015, 08:57:21 AM
It's extremely disappointing that the actions of CCBC have led to the failure of this Lottery bid. It was they that desperately wanted to buy the Pier and restore it a few years ago, and made much play of what an important Listed Building it was.

As it is, instead of the local economy receiving an injection of millions of pounds of lottery funding, we will most likely have to bear the cost of demolition, that will COST the taxpayer well over a million pounds.

This is what happens when you have CCBC Management who have spent their careers in the public sector, not a shred of business acumen there.  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on May 20, 2015, 09:40:42 AM
Colwyn Bay pier's future in doubt after Heritage Lottery Fund rejects £9.6m redevelopment grant bid
00:05, 20 MAY 2015
BY DAVID POWELL


Lottery chiefs have blamed a lack of “strong support” from Conwy Council for rejecting a £9.6m bid to redevelop Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier.

The Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust had wanted to transform the 115-year-old, Grade II listed structure into an educational and health hub and can re-apply for a Lottery grant.

But Heritage Lottery Fund chiefs, who had visited the pier on a fact finding exercise earlier this year, blamed stiff competition and an absence of municipal support.

Clwyd West MP David Jones called the news “desperately disappointing” and claimed Conwy Council’s “lukewarm approach” was partly responsible for the rejection.

Conwy Council, which is in a dispute with Steve Hunt over ownership, said the pier was a “high risk” project.

In her decision, Carole Souter, HLF chief executive, said: “HLF takes its role of investing National Lottery players’ money extremely seriously and we only support projects that we are confident can deliver long-term benefits.

“Unfortunately, we have not had a clear enough indication of strong support from Conwy County Borough Council (CCBC).

“In light of this as well as the absence of other confirmed financial support and the potential for increased costs, the application was deemed high risk.”

But she offered an olive branch.

“Should the Trust wish to reapply, we would be keen to encourage them to pursue greater involvement from CCBC.”

David Jones MP said it was desperately disappointing but Conwy County Borough Council’s “lukewarm approach” to the bid was a significant cause of the HLF’s rejection of it.

Now he says the council is in a quandary as it has still not concluded its litigation with Steve Hunt over the pier’s ownership. Until that is clarified, it cannot deal with the pier.

Mr Jones said the council is seeking permission from Cadw to demolish, but it is far from certain that that will be granted whilst there is local support for restoration.

He added: “Even if consent were granted, demolition would be at enormous cost to council taxpayers. In the meantime, the pier remains a worsening eyesore in what is otherwise an improved waterfront.”

Conwy Council Leader, Cllr Dilwyn Roberts, said HLF and Conwy County Borough Council both “clearly identified” that the project is high-risk, largely due to the absence of other confirmed financial support and the potential for increasing costs.

The council will continue to seek to demolish the pier through its planning process.

But a spokesman for Steve Hunt said he believes Land Registry documents prove he owns the pier. He believes that Conwy Council can’t seek to de-list the pier because the pier has to be offered for sale and the council doesn’t own it, he claims.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-piers-future-doubt-9290819 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-piers-future-doubt-9290819)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 21, 2015, 01:48:22 PM
W- anchors!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 04, 2015, 09:16:43 AM
Planning Application submitted for the demolition of Colwyn Bay Pier:
http://goo.gl/cL79zD (http://goo.gl/cL79zD)

It's revealed that the cost of demolition will be £1,500,000. Add in to that the money that CCBC have spent on security, legal costs etc and you have a bill to the taxpayer of well over £2m, with no positive outcome in terms of protection of a listed building, any jobs created etc.

It's also amazing that CCBC's main argument for demolition appears to be that the Pier cannot have a self sustaining future, whilst at the same time pouring millions into the unwanted Porth Eirias building just 100 metres away - another structure that will never make a penny profit yet is apparently thought to be worth keeping?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 04, 2015, 05:41:52 PM
There would appear to be a lot of pier left after the proposed demolition, considering the cost......CCBC could contribute the £1.500.000 to the rescue fund.  :laugh:

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 04, 2015, 06:04:39 PM
There will never be any shortage of breeze-block and steel/glass buildings being 'thrown' up.
But, there will never, ever be any Victorian iron piers built again.
What a tragic and destructive era we are now living in.    :'( &shake& &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 04, 2015, 06:28:14 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There will never be any shortage of breeze-block and steel/glass buildings being 'thrown' up.
But, there will never, ever be any Victorian iron piers built again.
What a tragic and destructive era we are now living in.    :'( &shake& &shake&

Well summed up... I still do not understand their decision.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: peterh on June 04, 2015, 07:20:58 PM
To retain the pillars and demolish the rest will leave an eyesore and a job half done. Are the retained pillars going to be fenced off from the beach to stop people or children trying to climb to the top of them? Does it not make sense that if the pier has to be demolished as it seems to be the case then surely the pillars should also be removed leaving then a clear open beach from Rhos Point to Port Eirias?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on June 04, 2015, 07:52:48 PM
What a right shower of Sh??te we have on ccbc ,do they reckon that is the way they get round the listed building thing leaving the stantions there .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier END OF THE PIER SHOW?
Post by: SteveH on June 04, 2015, 08:31:19 PM
Colwyn Bay Pier demolition plans to go before councillors

Conwy council's planning committee will be asked to approve plans to pull down the 115-year-old Victoria Pier, but final aproval lies with the Welsh Government.
Controversial plans to finally demolish a 115-year-old pier will go before a council next week.

Conwy County Council will seek to pull down Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier at its planning meeting on Wednesday.

However, even if the council decides to approve plans to dismantle the Grade II listed structure, Welsh Government ministers will have the final say.
Council officers believe the cost of sustaining and refurbishing the Victorian structure cannot be justified in the current financial climate.
A report to councillors explained 76 stanchions - the vertical columns supporting the pier - would be retained and the existing sea wall would be extended across the former entrance.

A vision of what could be put in its place was revealed last year when the council floated the idea of projecting an image of what the pier looked like in the early 1900s onto netting suspended above the sea wall.
The plans come after Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust failed in a bid to win Heritage Lottery cash last month, with the funding organisation intimating a lack of support from the county council affected the decision.
Victoria Pier is one of only 31 surviving open-structure piers with iron columns in the UK.

Ownership wrangles, as well as battles with the council over the sustainability of the site, have led to neglect.
isputed engineers’ reports from the Pier Trust and on behalf of the council have given differing views on the structure’s viability.

A survey of public opinion by both the Pier Trust and Conwy County Council revealed overwhelming local support for refurbishment.
Estimates on the cost of demolition range from £800,000 to £2m, and it could take up to nine months to fully complete the work.
A floating pontoon could be used to support demolition work, enabling work to continue in different tidal conditions.
If planners approve the proposals before them at next week’s meeting, the final say will be given to Welsh Government ministers, who will seek opinions from Cadw and other interested parties.

The planning meeting takes place at Bodlondeb at 2pm on Wednesday.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-plans-9393090 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-plans-9393090)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on June 04, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
Quote
Conwy County Council will seek to pull down Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier at its planning meeting on Wednesday.

By themselves? Or will some of the officers help?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on June 04, 2015, 10:05:10 PM
  I have mentioned this before. I fail to understand this cost of pulling down.Now I read that a floating pontoon is suggested. In case any of you do not know at low tide the pier is completely out of the sea.
   Compare that to the old Rhos pier. The end section of that was well and truly in the sea all the time. But no pontoon there to help pulling it down. And the puller downer PAID a tidy sum of money for the privilege of being allowed to scrap it.
   I know that was around fifty years ago but, have things changed that much?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: bigbadhenry on June 05, 2015, 09:33:40 AM
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What a right shower of Sh??te we have on ccbc ,do they reckon that is the way they get round the listed building thing leaving the stantions there .

It's a daft enough idea that could only have come from CBCC.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 05, 2015, 09:42:09 AM
The final results for the Poll we carried out regarding the future of Colwyn Bay Pier were:

Demolish it   -  32.6%
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)  -   13%
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)  -   54.3%


Therefore, the votes in favour of demolition amounted to 32.6%, whilst the votes in favour of retention/refurbishment amounted to 67.3%
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 05, 2015, 11:26:53 AM
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  I have mentioned this before. I fail to understand this cost of pulling down.Now I read that a floating pontoon is suggested. In case any of you do not know at low tide the pier is completely out of the sea.
   Compare that to the old Rhos pier. The end section of that was well and truly in the sea all the time. But no pontoon there to help pulling it down. And the puller downer PAID a tidy sum of money for the privilege of being allowed to scrap it.
   I know that was around fifty years ago but, have things changed that much?
I agree Mike, the price of scrap these days, they should pay us.
The cost of demolition is now being quoted at £2 million?....the way CCBC handle things, it could be cheaper to keep it.
I hope everybody has one last push left in them....


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 05, 2015, 06:55:32 PM
Colwyn Bay Pier: Trust vow to fight on despite Heritage Lottery setback

THE trust looking to restore the derelict Victoria Pier have vowed to fight on despite their recent setback.
A £9.6million proposal to restore the Colwyn Bay pier was refused by Heritage Lottery Fund officials last month due to a lack of strong support from Conwy County Council, who have applied to de-list and demolish the structure.
Despite the setback, members of the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust are now working on submitting a second bid in November.
Pat Owen, director at the trust, said: “We are not dead yet, and there is still plenty we can do to try and save the pier.
“We are looking for talks to continue in the hope common sense prevails and we can find a solution to what has been an ongoing problem.

“We are urging members of the public who support our bid to lobby your councillor and encourage them to hold a public meeting.
"It takes five councillors to propose a meeting for one to be arranged and we hope to have enough support to make this happen.”

For the council to go ahead with demolition, they must seek permission to de-list from Cadw and win the long-running ownership battle with businessman Steven Hunt.

A statement from Mr Hunt, said: “Conwy council refused to support the very good bid made by Colwyn Bay Town Council and the trust.

“This latest bid was a most professional application led by the team who have successfully restored Hastings Pier, which was in a far worse condition.

“The only body and documentation which confirms ownership of land in England and Wales is HM Land Registry, which at May 20 confirms I remain the legal registered owner of the pier.”

Cllr Dilwyn Roberts, leader at Conwy council, said: “We have had continued dialogue with the trust and town council, and would welcome talking to them further about proposals for legacy.
“As the application was unsuccessful, the Council’s application to demolish the pier will continue through the planning process.”

A large crowd is expected at the trust’s Annual General Meeting, which will be held on Wednesday, July 1 at Princes Drive Baptist Church from 7pm.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 10, 2015, 11:12:43 AM
Plans for substantial demolition of Colwyn Bay pier to be discussed at Conwy County Council planning meeting  today.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 10, 2015, 11:47:58 AM
Even if demolition plans are approved, CCBC will then have to seek approval from CADW. CADW will be reluctant to approve any demolition of a Listed Building unless it can be shown that all avenues to save it have been exhausted and this clearly isn't the case, as CCBC have not tried to offer the pier for sale, for example.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 10, 2015, 12:40:33 PM
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Plans for substantial demolition of Colwyn Bay pier to be discussed at Conwy County Council planning meeting  today.

The planning meeting available on Webcam..........

This webcast is scheduled for Wed, 10th Jun 2015 - 2:00 pm.
It will start automatically.

http://www.conwy.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/179094 (http://www.conwy.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/179094)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 10, 2015, 06:35:31 PM
Colwyn Bay pier demolition is a step closer. Planners backed granting conditional permission to demolish it & will now seek Cadw's consent. Ref David Powell DPost
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2015, 08:34:33 AM
Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier demolition a step closer
18:27, 10 JUNE 2015
BY DAVID POWELL


Cadw still to decide what to do next over the once popular tourist attraction

Demolition of Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier moved a step closer yesterday.

Conwy Council planning committee voted to allow it to be pulled down.

But it does not have the power to demolish a Grade II listed building.

So councillors at Bodlondeb also voted to ask Cadw, the Welsh historic environment service, for listed building consent to demolish it.
 
It is expected that the future of the 115-year-old structure will be decided by Welsh ministers with Cadw’s advice.

Estimates on the cost of demolition range from £800,000 to £2m, and it could take up to nine months to fully complete the work.

However, the pier is still the subject of an ownership battle. Steven James Hunt owns it, according to Land Registry records.

In yesterday’s committee meeting, Conwy Council’s consultant Edward Nash called for demolition except for 76 stanchions.

He told councillors that 73% of the pier “decking support members” have failed. The structure is “distorted” and “unsafe” and it could continue to “blight the bay for many years.”

But Cllr Abdul Khan argued the pier could still create “work, trade, a place for social life and an attraction for our children.”

Others disagreed.

Cllr Peter Lewis told members: “This is becoming something of a soap opera. The pier is haemorrhaging money on a daily basis. Yesterday it seemed to have deteriorated even more.”

Cllr Sue Lloyd Roberts said it was a “sad day” and she was very disappointed to reach this point. And Cllr Ifor Lloyd said keeping stanchions would create “a scar more than a remembrance”.

Conwy planning committee voted to grant conditional planning permission to demolish the pier.

Conditions include: demolition and restoration statements, an investigation into whether it is feasible to keep murals from the 1930s and 1940s, a full photographic record of the pier and how long the work will take.

The plans come after Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust failed in a bid to win Heritage Lottery Fund cash last month, with the funding organisation intimating a lack of support from the county council affected the decision.

Victoria Pier is one of only 31 surviving open-structure piers with iron columns in the UK.

A vision of what could be put in its place was revealed last year when the council floated the idea of projecting an image of what the pier looked like in the early 1900s onto netting suspended above the sea wall.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier-demolition-9429473 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-victoria-pier-demolition-9429473)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: norman08 on June 11, 2015, 08:58:34 AM
Cllr peter Lewis says the pier is haemorrhaging money so it has to go ,so when will they get rid of the skip ,that place will never make money .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on June 11, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
Hemorrhaging money?   I haven't noticed any being spent on it?
They are probably counting all the exhorbitant business lunches, travel expenses and catering fees spent on the interminable meetings that they have on the subject.
Every meeting leans towards being DESTRUCTIVE,   when will our public servants try something CONSTRUCTIVE??
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 11, 2015, 12:57:40 PM
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Plans for substantial demolition of Colwyn Bay pier to be discussed at Conwy County Council planning meeting  today.

I watched the Webcam meeting yesterday,.....One point that stood out was the viability of the project, long term, bearing in mind maintenance and insurance costs of £200.000 pa it was felt this was beyond the trusts reach?
Could they generate enough rent with their present plan?  (this was brought up by HLF.)
I think this is a major issue for the trust to address .

My thoughts after watching the meeting, ...there will be no support from the council, there were a lot of bowed heads........ :(

This also came to mind....Quote from Ians NHS thread today Re Bullying.
"I suspect this is a peculiarly North Wales issue. The denizens of this area are, on the whole pleasant, easy-going and, above all, non confrontational. That last has often meant that people are reluctant to speak out about what they really believe and, instead, mutter about it in dark corners."


Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on June 11, 2015, 07:55:19 PM
  Your last paragraph. Correct.
   Now I will go to read the original version by Ian
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on June 24, 2015, 09:51:28 AM
Petition to request that CADW refuse Conwy Council's request to demolish Colwyn Bay Pier:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/902/418/666/cadw-kate-clark-please-refuse-conwy-county-councils-application-to-demolish-the-victoria-pier/ (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/902/418/666/cadw-kate-clark-please-refuse-conwy-county-councils-application-to-demolish-the-victoria-pier/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 24, 2015, 03:09:04 PM
Colwyn Bay Pier: Campaigners hopeful ahead of special council meeting

CAMPAIGNERS fighting to save Colwyn Bay Pier from demolition are calling for “common sense” from councillors.
A special council meeting will see councillors come face to face with members of the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust, looking to redevelop the Grade II listed structure despite having a £9.6million Heritage Lottery Fund bid rejected.

Pat Owen, director of the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust, whose members succeeded in lobbying five Conwy councillors to propose the meeting, said: “This is good news for us and it will give us an opportunity to get our side of the story across to councillors who may not be aware of all the facts.

“The costs to demolish the pier are significant and Conwy council have freely admitted that they do not have the necessary funds to do this, so we are hoping that common sense will prevail and we can find a solution to an ongoing problem.”
Councillors granted conditional permission for the demolition of the pier to be determined by Welsh Government ministers at a planning committee earlier this month, at a cost of around £2million.

Conwy council have also applied to Cadw for partial de-listing of the site, and trust members have set up a petition to urge the Welsh heritage organisation to reject this request.

The five councillors who have requested the special meeting taking place on Tuesday, June 30 at 6pm, are Abdul Khan, Bob Squire, Keith Eeles, Bill Darwin and Susan Shotter at the request of Cllr Cheryl Carlisle.
Cllr Squire, said: “It would be ridiculous to demolish the pier and just leave the structures, and I think if the money is there then we must find a way to get it.
"I was disappointed to hear the reasons behind the HLF rejection and it was not nice to see that the council were blamed, so hopefully this meeting with give the trust another chance to have their say.”

The trust have been encouraged to make a second bid by the HLF provided they can gain more support from the council to progress the plans.
Conwy council remains in an ownership dispute with businessman Steven Hunt.

A large crowd is expected at the trust’s Annual General Meeting, on Wednesday, July 1 at Princes Drive Baptist Church from 7pm.
Those wishing to sign the petition can do so here.

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/149475/colwyn-bay-pier-campaigners-hopeful-ahead-of-special-council-meeting.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/149475/colwyn-bay-pier-campaigners-hopeful-ahead-of-special-council-meeting.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on June 29, 2015, 03:54:07 PM
SPECIAL MEETING: A special meeting of council has been convened for 6pm (tomorrow) Tuesday at Bodlondeb, Conwy. They will discuss Colwyn Bay Pier after five councillors called for further discussion on the issueREFDP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on July 03, 2015, 07:02:30 PM
Bangor Pier lottery bid may have failed because it was in 'too good a condition'

“The HLF were not convinced about areas of (structural) concerns at the pier, and if urgent work had to be done they may have approved our application.
“The logic here being that we should let it decay like Colwyn Bay.

“If we do the work, are we going to be worse off next time (we apply for funding)?”   &shake&

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/bangor-pier-lottery-bid-failed-9584102 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/bangor-pier-lottery-bid-failed-9584102)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on July 04, 2015, 08:58:27 PM
Colwyn Bay Official Guide.....Scan of Pier..Not sure the year...quite a few on the pier...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on July 05, 2015, 01:19:53 AM
Never seen CB Pier from that angle, obviously an aerial view... it looks fantastic.
Why would anyone object to restoring such a great thing?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: white rabbit on July 05, 2015, 08:11:44 PM
great photo Steve H  I remember it well!! $thanx$






Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on October 22, 2015, 11:08:50 AM
Consent to demolish Colwyn Bay Pier refused by Welsh Government:

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/154053/consent-to-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier-refused-by-welsh-government.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/154053/consent-to-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier-refused-by-welsh-government.aspx)

Key quote:

In the conclusion of his report, Mr Sargeant said: "It is my view that the proposed demolition has not been fully justified while there remains the unexplored possibility of retaining more of the pier structure than currently proposed.

"Notwithstanding the dispute over the ownership of the site, the Conwy County Borough Council has assumed responsibility over the pier.

"Being a public body, they are under a duty to act in the public interest . This status also allows it to access funding routes not normally available to commercial operators."
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 22, 2015, 11:38:48 AM
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Consent to demolish Colwyn Bay Pier refused by Welsh Government:

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/154053/consent-to-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier-refused-by-welsh-government.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/154053/consent-to-demolish-colwyn-bay-pier-refused-by-welsh-government.aspx)

Key quote:

In the conclusion of his report, Mr Sargeant said: "It is my view that the proposed demolition has not been fully justified while there remains the unexplored possibility of retaining more of the pier structure than currently proposed.

"Notwithstanding the dispute over the ownership of the site, the Conwy County Borough Council has assumed responsibility over the pier.

"Being a public body, they are under a duty to act in the public interest . This status also allows it to access funding routes not normally available to commercial operators."
Now CCBC really has a problem on their hands, and it's one which many people predicted would happen. They are liable to repair the Pier as its owner, so they need to work with the Pier Trust to obtain Lottery funding. Something that they should have done in the first place!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Dave on October 22, 2015, 05:43:45 PM
What a mess !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on October 23, 2015, 11:39:43 AM
The final bit of the mess would be if the High Court decided that Steve Hunt was the rightful owner of the pier....  :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 13, 2015, 05:14:32 PM
Some poignant pictures in this article of Birnbeck Pier, in Weston-Super Mare.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-35083010 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-35083010)

Colwyn Bay Pier is much easier to renovate than this, but it shows just how bad these structures get if left unattended.
Apparently Birnbeck is being assessed to possibly be renovated!

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 14, 2015, 10:15:16 AM
We walked along Colwyn Bay Prom the other day and I was thinking how dull the seafront would look without the pier. I can't help but think that future generations will scratch their heads in disbelief that we allowed the pier to be demolished, whilst at the same time spending many millions on building a white elephant like Porth Eirias.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Daihardwelshman on December 14, 2015, 01:23:15 PM
I have to say that i have been to Porth Eirias for a meal a couple of times and have come away with my wallet a lot lighter and a bit... well underwhelmed!!!!

However following a very wet and expensive shopping trip to Liverpool on saturday, we finished off having a mexican meal at Wahaca which is the chain of restaurants started by
Thomasina Myers the winner from masterchef a few years ago.

It was absolutely superb and very well priced.

www.wahaca.co.uk (http://www.wahaca.co.uk)

It just showed me how overpriced  our eating establishments have become locally, especially Bryn Williams at Porth Eirias.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 15, 2015, 09:10:14 AM
I've had Porth Eirias Bistro on our list to visit for a while now but we've never been quite motivated enough to actually book it, as I've not heard anyone raving about the food there.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 15, 2015, 06:19:01 PM
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We walked along Colwyn Bay Prom the other day and I was thinking how dull the seafront would look without the pier. I can't help but think that future generations will scratch their heads in disbelief that we allowed the pier to be demolished, whilst at the same time spending many millions on building a white elephant like Porth Eirias.

Yes, totally agree with that. It'd lose the character of what makes that stretch of the seafront unique. And part of Colwyn Bay's identity. And the irony is that the council know that a "focal point" is needed in that location. But whenever I try to imagine what they'd put up in its place, I get some quite depressing images appearing in my head.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 07:07:05 PM
Coming at this from an outsider these days...  I tend to ask myself what Colwyn Bay ever was.  Sure first time round in Wales for me, my father was the manager of Abbey National when it first opened on Penryryn Road.  Our doctors and vets were on the way in.  Later in life and only once or twice I seem to remember was it Dixies, the disco?  I've drunk in places including the Imp as sort of one offs and worked at Supra on Groes Road (used to make track rod ends, etc.... as did Quints in Mochdre...)

I guess a question I ask is what is/was/(/perpaps could be) Colwyn Bay?  Llandudno was perhaps clearly sort of defined as an old Victorian resort but I'm not convinced that works for CB.

Where's the pier sit in with all this?  I don't know but my niece and nephiew who are still resident in the three towns are a reckoned it should survive as part of the town,
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2015, 10:14:16 PM
Nothing to do with the topic, but was your father the manager of the Abbey in 1969/70?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 10:39:21 PM
I'd say so Hugo. It fits with our years.  He was assistant in Shrewsbury and was moved and promoted to open the new CB branch.  This was how we came to live in Pydew first time round and why we moved to Kent from Old Swan.

(Later, he left the Abbey to go back to Skerryvore).

A curiosity point for you that I learned many moons later was at the time of his moving, he had blazing row with the Abbey.  It seems odd now but they (who in those days gave favourable mortgages to employees) didn't consider Bryn Pydew a suitable address for a manager but maintained he and his wife (my mother) had found where they wanted to live.  The tale goes he threatened to resign over this.  Odd to think now that Pydew is Fashionable, hey?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2015, 10:52:45 PM
The reason I asked the question was because I had my first mortgage there and it was arranged with the manager Mr F. 
I remember very clearly my wife and I going there and having a very nice chat with him.   
Mr F was a really nice guy and I saw him a few times afterwards in town and exchanged greetings with him.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: squiggle on December 15, 2015, 11:04:23 PM
Hugo, I am certain that was my father you dealt with.  I'll tell him you have a fond memory tomorrow.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on December 16, 2015, 10:55:53 AM
It's a long story squiggle but I'm forever indebted to Mr F as it helped me to get on to the property ladder when no one else was prepared to help.
I remember the appointment very well and we went upstairs to his office and all his help and sound advice was really appreciated.   The appointment was made through a Llandudno estate agent who was a very good friend of Mr F .
I had helped the estate agent with some paper work and he in turn helped me to get that appointment.   It's a true saying that one good turn deserves another.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: squiggle on December 16, 2015, 11:43:13 AM
Thanks Hugo, I have passed this on to him.

I see no harm in saying this so.

My father had a bad stroke in the 90s. Glan Clwyd wrongly diagnosed a heart attack (pretty sure it was meniers) and he reacted badly to the streptokinase they gave him - he wound up in Walton with the combination of a bleed stroke and having been put on clot busters!

That was the main trigger for leaving Skerryvore and moving to Norfolk. My parents have quite different backgrounds, my mother being England/Wales rural borders Shropshire and my father the city of Norwich (a city of which even I have the F of) but having had many holidays on the north Norfolk coast.

He recovered from this much better than even my mother (who dealt with many stroke patients as a physio in Llandudno) expected but he's not without scars. Older and slower of course (and I guess that happens to all of us as we age) and possibly if he really put his mind to it, still capable of loosing me on crosswords - ximines and later azed were regulars for him - he was very good at that type of thing) but there are ups and downs.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on March 04, 2016, 10:27:28 AM
A new piece in the Pioneer:

"THE local authority’s handling of Colwyn Bay pier’s proposed demolition has so angered one councillor that he is prepared to go to the ombudsman in a bid to get the answers he wants...." http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/159360/colwyn-bay-pier-stance-is-muddying-water-says-councillor.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/159360/colwyn-bay-pier-stance-is-muddying-water-says-councillor.aspx)

I sympathise with the councillor. I've been puzzled by the council's attitude to, and plans for, the pier for years. None of it has made much sense to me. I'd be inclined to see it as merely incompetence, except for the clear intent of some in the council to get rid of the pier - an intent which can be traced back at least 8 or 9 years, via comments made in the local press, etc, when the pier was in much better shape, with the (successful) preliminary lottery fund bid still in the future.

So, the current plan, it seems, is to demolish, but "to keep 76 of the structure’s stanchions".
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 04, 2016, 10:45:17 AM
I agree. Consider CCBC's attitude with that of Hastings Council, who encouraged the charity group to take over their pier (which was burnt out and in a far worse state than Colwyn Bay) and apply for £14m of Lottery funding for repairs. Now, Hastings has a brand new pier:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35568989 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35568989)

Hastings had a 'can do' attitude towards their pier, CCBC have a 'won't do' attitude!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 07, 2016, 05:03:38 PM
I had a look at the Pier today and it's in a very sad state.  Unless a lottery grant is received then there appears to be no chance of it being restored as it will never be a viable investment for anyone.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: mull on March 08, 2016, 09:18:31 AM
It does not look very safe.
Are the public allowed to walk underneath it ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 08, 2016, 09:43:14 AM
No it is fenced off now.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2016, 12:02:01 PM
It's fenced off all round the pier for safety reasons
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
The other side of the pier isn't a pretty sight either!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 08, 2016, 04:43:25 PM
A crying shame...  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: mull on March 08, 2016, 05:39:51 PM
Thanks for the photos.
Did not realise it was that bad.
Not been closer than passing on the A55 for many years.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 09, 2016, 09:31:52 AM
The shoreward end pavilion is in a terrible state, the landward end building is in better condition but needs significant work.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 30, 2016, 03:21:05 PM
Campaign group chairman unveils new plan to save Colwyn Bay Pier

THE HEAD of a Colwyn Bay campaign group has unveiled a new plan to save the town's Victoria Pier.

Mark Roberts, who took over as chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust at the group's AGM this month, said he will push for the pier to be dismantled in order to examine all of its components and their viability.

Mr Roberts, a freelance planning and environmental law consultant, said once the components have been properly examined and cleaned or replaced, the trust will have a much better idea of the true condition of the structure, and therefore how much work will be required to restore it.

He said: "Nobody seems to know with any degree of clarity what the condition of the pier is, in the previous admission by the council there were conflicting reports - that was ultimately one of the reasons demolition was refused.

"The direction we're going is to dismantle the pier - dismantling is not demolition.
"It is a concept in listed building legislation case law whereby you have the building dismantled and take the individual elements away - you can look at them to see if they need replacing, cleaning or fixing.
"The idea is to have a temporary structure erected where you can take these elements to see if they have longevity. If not they will need to be replaced.
"It has to be one continuous process, you can't dismantle it and leave it in storage."

Mr Roberts, who has 40 years of experience in town and country planning, has worked for local authorities on a number of projects across the UK including the regeneration of Castell Deudracth for Gwynedd County Council and the Gas Street Canal Basin regeneration scheme for Birmingham City Council, as well as projects Snowdonia National Park Authority.

He added he hopes in the long term to form connections with educational establishments across North Wales such as colleges, to use the pier as an opportunity for heritage related education.
Mr Roberts, 62, also said the trust had already begun looking into different grants and funding avenues to continue its work, and that conversation had already begun with Conwy County Borough Council to seek permission for dismantling the structure.

He added: "This is for the community, it's not for any individual. The ultimate objective is to make sure the pier is saved for future generations and the present one."

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160336/campaign-group-chairman-unveils-new-plan-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160336/campaign-group-chairman-unveils-new-plan-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on April 10, 2016, 05:06:30 PM
Competition to celebrate Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier
BUDDING artists are being invited to submit their works to celebrate Colwyn Bay's Victoria Pier.

The 'Year of the Pier Calendar Competition' is being run by the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust and invites anyone to submit their artwork involving the pier before midnight on July 31 2016.
The art - which could end up in a calendar - can be in the form of a photo, digital image, painting, sketch - any form of work focused on the pier.

A spokesperson for the trust said: "CVPT feelsan art competition is a fantastic way to celebrate the pier's heritage and place on our coastline.
"CVPT wants all sectors of the community involved - young and old -  because a restored and re-purposed pier will have something to offer everyone. We believe that for this project to be successful, all contributions need to be encouraged and valued equally."

"The pier is an enormous asset to the community and needs to be treasured. The potential offered is huge - for education, employment, tourism, the economy - Colwyn Bay could be on the map again if we all unite and make the most of our pier."

Entries, which must be sent with artist's name and contact details, can be submitted through the trust's facebook (search 'Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust Campaign') and twitter (@piercolwyn), or via email at info@cvpt.co.uk
Original copies can also be taken to the Pier Shop on Abergele Road (pictured) or the Glass Lounge Cafe
For more information about the competition and full terms and conditions, contact the trust by emailing info@cvptrust.co.uk or visit the trust's facebook page

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160722/competition-to-celebrate-colwyn-bay-victoria-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160722/competition-to-celebrate-colwyn-bay-victoria-pier.aspx)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 11, 2016, 09:28:21 AM
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Campaign group chairman unveils new plan to save Colwyn Bay Pier

THE HEAD of a Colwyn Bay campaign group has unveiled a new plan to save the town's Victoria Pier.

Mark Roberts, who took over as chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust at the group's AGM this month, said he will push for the pier to be dismantled in order to examine all of its components and their viability.

Mr Roberts, a freelance planning and environmental law consultant, said once the components have been properly examined and cleaned or replaced, the trust will have a much better idea of the true condition of the structure, and therefore how much work will be required to restore it.

He said: "Nobody seems to know with any degree of clarity what the condition of the pier is, in the previous admission by the council there were conflicting reports - that was ultimately one of the reasons demolition was refused.

"The direction we're going is to dismantle the pier - dismantling is not demolition.
"It is a concept in listed building legislation case law whereby you have the building dismantled and take the individual elements away - you can look at them to see if they need replacing, cleaning or fixing.
"The idea is to have a temporary structure erected where you can take these elements to see if they have longevity. If not they will need to be replaced.
"It has to be one continuous process, you can't dismantle it and leave it in storage."

Mr Roberts, who has 40 years of experience in town and country planning, has worked for local authorities on a number of projects across the UK including the regeneration of Castell Deudracth for Gwynedd County Council and the Gas Street Canal Basin regeneration scheme for Birmingham City Council, as well as projects Snowdonia National Park Authority.

He added he hopes in the long term to form connections with educational establishments across North Wales such as colleges, to use the pier as an opportunity for heritage related education.
Mr Roberts, 62, also said the trust had already begun looking into different grants and funding avenues to continue its work, and that conversation had already begun with Conwy County Borough Council to seek permission for dismantling the structure.

He added: "This is for the community, it's not for any individual. The ultimate objective is to make sure the pier is saved for future generations and the present one."

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160336/campaign-group-chairman-unveils-new-plan-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/160336/campaign-group-chairman-unveils-new-plan-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)
Sounds promising; let's hope Mr Roberts is able to push the pier project forward out of the mire in which it has sunk...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on May 10, 2016, 03:37:05 PM
REF   Pioneer
Colwyn Bay pier inspection is key to future demolition plans
AN inspection of Colwyn Bay’s Victoria Pier has been launched.
 
Data from the new inspection will be used to guide a new bid to demolish the structure, council bosses have said.
Engineers have been appointed to provide an update on the pier’s condition, the results of which will also provide key information for Conwy County Borough Council’s listed building consent application.
 
A spokesperson for Conwy County Council said the inspection work, which began at the end of April, is expected to take up to four weeks.
The survey will feature the use of a drone as well as a mobile elevated working platform to view inaccessible areas of the structure.
 
Cllr Dilwyn Roberts, leader of Conwy County Borough Council, said: “Over recent years, we have carried out inspections periodically on the pier to monitor the rate of deterioration.
“The results of this inspection will not only be a snapshot of its current condition, but will also guide the council’s resubmission to the minister for listed building consent to demolish.”

Conwy County Council confirmed in January this year that despite having its first application to demolish the pier rejected last year by Carl Sargeant AM work had begun on a second bid to demolish the pier.
 
Cllr Abdul Khan had described the decision to apply again as “immature”, after it was stated by the Welsh Government the demolition was not justified while there remains the unexplored possibility of retaining more of the Grade II listed pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 10, 2016, 06:46:43 PM
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Cllr Abdul Khan had described the decision to apply again as “immature”, after it was stated by the Welsh Government the demolition was not justified while there remains the unexplored possibility of retaining more of the Grade II listed pier.

Shouldn't that be ''premature''??
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on May 10, 2016, 08:02:09 PM
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Cllr Abdul Khan had described the decision to apply again as “immature”, after it was stated by the Welsh Government the demolition was not justified while there remains the unexplored possibility of retaining more of the Grade II listed pier.

Shouldn't that be ''premature''??

We are talking about councilors here ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on August 14, 2016, 11:48:48 AM
Ask Daily Post: What is going on with Colwyn Bay Pier?

We recently asked our readers to pose a question about North Wales when they didn’t know who else to ask.
A total of 28.2% of respondents in this Google Survey voted to know if Colwyn Bay pier will be demolished.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/whats-happening-colwyn-bay-pier-11746721 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/whats-happening-colwyn-bay-pier-11746721)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on December 04, 2016, 05:43:17 PM
Demolition looms for Colwyn Bay's Victoria Pier in bitter legal battle

Businessman Steven Hunt has lost his final bid at the Court of Appeal to claim ownership of the derelict structure.

Full article...videos.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/demolition-looms-colwyn-bays-victoria-12270404 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/demolition-looms-colwyn-bays-victoria-12270404)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on December 04, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
I find the whole situation sad and disgraceful - a massive wasted opportunity. When you think that the Heritage Lottery Fund awarded the pier a grant in 2013 and signalled more funding possible - with much optimism at the time (only for CCBC to quickly return the grant 6 months later, when it decided - very much against local opinion and in a hurried, ill-informed decision - to demolish).

Consider how CCBC has bent over backwards, money seemingly no object, to push forward the rest of the Waterfront Redevelopment project - while pretty much ignoring the huge public support in favour of attempting to save the pier. Consider the time and energy that CCBC has put into promoting everything BUT the possibility of pursuing the restoration of the pier. Going by the overwhelming evidence, I think they always wanted to get rid of it (for reasons unknown to me).
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 05, 2016, 11:42:29 AM
I think CCBC want to control everything. If you think about it, the Pier was the only privately owned structure along the Prom. They didn't want anything that would potentially be a success, thus taking money from their own business activities.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Gaffzilla on December 05, 2016, 05:51:26 PM
I was born in Llandudno and lived with my Gran in Penryhn Bay. I remember many happy times in Colwyn Bay, on the beach (where I took my first steps) and on and around the pier, riding the mechanical elephant and the miniature railway, and of course the Welsh Fargo up to Eirias Park. I was shocked to see the decline of this wonderful town when I visited during a recent summer, it appeared to have very few holidaymakers and tourism at a depressing low. The pier is one of the shabbiest and most neglected structures imaginable. If a private individual had allowed this they would be prosecuted, why should the council get away with it?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on December 06, 2016, 10:12:44 AM
Fight will go on to save Colwyn Bay Pier vow campaigners.

Interesting comments  from......
Colwyn Bay Councillor David P Griffiths says he believes the pier can still be saved.
He continued: “The Bay of Colwyn is desperately in need of a multi-functional suite that can be used for weddings, dinner and buffet dances as well as a heritage focal point for a promenade that needs to embrace its past as well as the surrounding modern architecture that includes Porth Eirias which in my view is more in need of refurbishment than the Pier.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fight-go-save-colwyn-bay-12277895 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fight-go-save-colwyn-bay-12277895)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on December 06, 2016, 11:11:10 AM
To be honest a lot of these people fighting to save it may not necessarily care for it that much themselves. It's more that a few key individuals in their group of them have stood up against it and so all their other friends also feel compelled to join the campaign.

Basically it's pier pressure.


 :twoface:

I'm here all week. Two shows on the Saturday  D)

 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on December 09, 2016, 06:22:24 PM
Engineers make final assessment on the pier

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/170024/engineers-make-final-assessments-of-colwyn-bay-pier-ahead-of-demolition-bid.aspx#.WEr10vwH9tw.email (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/170024/engineers-make-final-assessments-of-colwyn-bay-pier-ahead-of-demolition-bid.aspx#.WEr10vwH9tw.email)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 10, 2016, 12:41:29 AM
The phrase 'unseemly haste' comes to mind.
.... which is not too shabby for a drunk man!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 16, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
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Engineers make final assessment on the pier

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/170024/engineers-make-final-assessments-of-colwyn-bay-pier-ahead-of-demolition-bid.aspx#.WEr10vwH9tw.email (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/170024/engineers-make-final-assessments-of-colwyn-bay-pier-ahead-of-demolition-bid.aspx#.WEr10vwH9tw.email)

It's interesting that CCBC are claiming that the Pier is now in such a bad state that there is no alternative but demolition.

Given that they have owned it for several years, why have they not allocated any money to maintain the structure during their time of ownership? It's gross neglect of a listed building that they have the legal responsibility as owners to maintain.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on December 16, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
The same 'stunt' as pulled by Amwyl, when they suddenly found that Pen Morfa was too dilapidated to be saved.  It's a disgrace.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on December 23, 2016, 10:55:48 AM
Drone footage captures Colwyn Bay's decaying pier.
Dramatic new aerial footage shows the current state of an under-threat pier on the north Wales coast.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drone-footage-captures-colwyn-bays-12361762 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drone-footage-captures-colwyn-bays-12361762)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier..... pier collapse
Post by: SteveH on February 01, 2017, 02:18:15 PM
After Hugos and Festers post this morning on CB thread, this just in.........

Part of C B pier collapsed...photos....
.
https://mobile.twitter.com/C_Dearden/status/826790998277816320 (https://mobile.twitter.com/C_Dearden/status/826790998277816320)

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-12540368 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-12540368)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 01, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
Another angle...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 01, 2017, 04:05:49 PM
Cue evil cackling in some CCBC meeting room.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 01, 2017, 04:46:54 PM
I take it that the Pier collapsed today Steve.  I was there this morning at about 10.30 am and it was low tide and there was no debris on the sand,    As I mentioned before the safety fence was down on both sides of the Pier and anyone could have walked under the Pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 01, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
H. I believe the first report was about 1pm, you would be one of the last to see it before the collapse, very sad situation, and I think BMD has hit the nail on the head.....Cue evil cackling in some CCBC meeting room.....
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 01, 2017, 08:29:57 PM
I have to say that I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that the pier has collapsed, if anyone had looked at the condition of the pier in the past twelve months they would not have to have to have been a structural engineer to have seen that a collapse was imminent. I'm just glad that it happened when no one was underneath it. Something has got to be done now as a matter of urgency before the rest follows - every rough high water is going to remove the fencing surrounding the area in places, one nice day, low water, kids underneath exploring - as kids do, it doesn't bear thinking about.

I think that the continued neglect has made the decision for us. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 01, 2017, 10:30:19 PM
Some good drone footage by Steven Thomas shows the extent of the damage to the pier

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38830339 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38830339)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 02, 2017, 01:49:11 AM
It's hard to tell, but it looks like a 50ft section of decking, attached to the shoulders or 'whaleboards' as I've heard them called... basically the edgings that knit the railings to the deck and infrastructure has finally succumbed.
The decking and shoulders were surely just rotten wood by now.
Some of the steelwork along that stretch must have failed, in order for the weight of the structure above to bring it down.
The iron piles are still there.
The seaward end was always fragile, and I'm amazed it lasted this long.
It would be interesting to refer to the expensive survey done by Datreys about 7 years ago, to see how they assessed that section.
Also, to get Dave R's view, because who knows more about piers in Wales than him?

Irrespective of today's events, nothing has changed, it can be salvaged and renovated... is there the will? I think there is.
Today's sad event should galvanise supporters, not demoralise them!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 02, 2017, 06:24:45 AM
Sorry Fester, there is no disrespect intended, but what's required now in respect of the pier is a reality check. I'm sure that there are many people, who like me, would love to see a working viable pier there, but it's far too late to now attempt to salvage the remains of the ruin that blights the landscape of Colwyn Bay.   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 02, 2017, 10:16:36 AM
I agree with Festers comments above especially....Irrespective of today's events, nothing has changed, it can be salvaged and renovated... is there the will? I think there is.
Today's sad event should galvanise supporters, not demoralise them!  .....

They have talked about shortening the pier before, so sacrifice this section, and get on with it.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 02, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
The section that collapsed has not been maintained since the 1970s, so amazing it has lasted so long really. The main sections of pier are in a far better condition.

What I find truly amazing is Conwy Council's comment that "Over recent years the Council has been quite clear about the deteriorating state of the pier.". As the owners of the pier, they alone are responsible for maintaining a Listed building, yet no work has been done at all in the way of repairs to the structure in the 4 years since they bought it!

Any private owner of a Listed building would feel the full weight of enforcement action from CCBC if they neglected a property in the same way, yet the council act with impunity.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 02, 2017, 01:06:15 PM
DaveR, I, and I believe, many others will wholly agree with you; the Council's conduct has been utterly disgraceful, if not illegal. The Council's conduct has been that of a rogue developer and they should be held to account, but in reality, we know that the morally correct outcome of the Council being forced to repair/renovate the pier is not going to happen. There will certainly be no private investment.

There is only going to be one sad and disgraceful outcome. It's a tragic tale of woeful incompetence.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 02, 2017, 02:07:15 PM
Fight to save Colwyn Bay pier will go on, defiant campaigners say after partial collapse

The Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust campaign says it will continue to resist attempts to demolish the 19th century structure, following part of it collapsing into the sea yesterday.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fight-save-colwyn-bay-pier-12546080 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fight-save-colwyn-bay-pier-12546080)
Quotes....
The Trust is also intent on carrying out an independent survey as stipulated by the Welsh Government, and have been trying to gain  access to the Pier since last Summer but have so far been thwarted by the Council. The last two meetings scheduled between the Trust and Conwy officers have also been cancelled, further frustrating matters.

Over the last couple of years bits have been ground off from the cross section of the structure and one has to wonder if this weakened it, Conwy said it was for safety reasons.”
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on February 02, 2017, 02:34:04 PM
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The section that collapsed has not been maintained since the 1970s, so amazing it has lasted so long really. The main sections of pier are in a far better condition.

What I find truly amazing is Conwy Council's comment that "Over recent years the Council has been quite clear about the deteriorating state of the pier.". As the owners of the pier, they alone are responsible for maintaining a Listed building, yet no work has been done at all in the way of repairs to the structure in the 4 years since they bought it!

Any private owner of a Listed building would feel the full weight of enforcement action from CCBC if they neglected a property in the same way, yet the council act with impunity.

From experience the Council are somewhat lax in clamping down on illegal additions/alterations to listed buildings, but CADW are the very devil on the subject.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 03, 2017, 09:50:13 AM
Speaking of CADW, I found their reaction to the partial collapse interesting:

A Cadw spokesman said: “We are devastated to hear of the partial collapse of this important historic asset. Conwy County Council has responsibility for the pier and we will be meeting with them shortly to discuss next steps.”

Doesn't sound like permission for demolition will be forthcoming anytime soon....

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: OrmeMac on February 03, 2017, 11:39:47 AM
And CCBC deny giving the Pier a helping hand to collapse...
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-sabotage-claims-12548690 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-sabotage-claims-12548690)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 05, 2017, 12:49:30 PM
I had a nice walk on the beach in Old Colwyn this morning, then had a look at the damage to the pier.   While I was taking some snapshots a lady asked me to take some close ups of the stanchions that had been snapped when the pier collapsed.
She was a member of Save our Pier and alleged that they may have been sabotaged.    ?{}?
The shots were taken with the zoom on because the pier has been fenced off and the Security Guard was present.   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 05, 2017, 02:54:57 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38854046 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38854046)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 05, 2017, 07:27:10 PM
Hmmm!  Straight edges, a sure sign of some acetylene cutting, or similar intervention.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on February 05, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
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Hmmm!  Straight edges, a sure sign of some acetylene cutting, or similar intervention.


It's not as simple as that, you need to get up close to see if the metal has sheared or been cut.
As long as it is inspected/examined by an independent engineer!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on February 05, 2017, 09:23:14 PM
Why oh why must someone come up with a preposterous conspiracy theory without an ounce of common sence to back themselves up. If someone had cut the stations with any sort of cutting gear, it could not have been carried out in secret. There would always have been someone in the vicinity to see what was going on. Old cast iron will always fracture along a line of weakness, why if that happens to be a stright line should we then suspect anything other than all the reports on the state of the pier were correct. Lovely old structure in its day but that day was well past its sell by.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 05, 2017, 10:53:53 PM
Look at the 2nd photo, no way on this Earth is that a natural fracture or break.
Believe the evidence of your own eyes, there is hardly any corrosion on those perfectly straight edges either!
No conspiracy theory, it might have been unrelated to the outcome, but there have been council workmen on that site, and that looks suspicious, just saying!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on February 06, 2017, 12:50:30 PM
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Look at the 2nd photo, no way on this Earth is that a natural fracture or break.
Believe the evidence of your own eyes, there is hardly any corrosion on those perfectly straight edges either!
No conspiracy theory, it might have been unrelated to the outcome, but there have been council workmen on that site, and that looks suspicious, just saying!

Look at Hugos first photo in post #786 Fester, look at the intact leg on the right which comes down and fits into a round support collar. It is a similar support collar that has fractured on the other leg, no human intervention required.  :rage:   
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 06, 2017, 12:52:30 PM
It was done by Elvis.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 06, 2017, 01:17:27 PM
I have no views either way on the Pier and all I was asked to do was take the photos for the lady.    Apart from an allegation that someone saw sparks and heard noises coming from under the pier one evening one thing did cross my mind though.
When anyone uses heavy machinery like a chain saw or hedge cutter then the machine is usually operated at waist height or just above the waist.  That's about the same height as both the stanchions were, so hypothetically any one using an angle grinder would have used it at the same height.
It may be no more than just a coincidence that both stanchions fractured in exactly the same straight line and at the  same height.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 06, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
It's...a little odd. Normally, pier collapses only happen during periods of storm, when exceptional pressure is placed on a weakened structure by the high tides. This collapse happened on a quiet day, when there was barely a wave on the sea. You can see in the photos how thick those piles are.

I'm not saying there was any dodgy activity, but its certainly very unusual.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 06, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Do we know of an engineer who could make an assessment?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 06, 2017, 03:27:39 PM
Yes Ian, Datrey's report from about 5 years ago.
Most of the crossbeams on that pier were sound, and ALL of the piles.
So, I maintain that interference has taken place.  (If I was forced to tick a box that is)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 06, 2017, 03:48:19 PM
I really meant an engineer who could look at the suspiciously straight edges on the severed supports and confirm or deny it was deliberate.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 06, 2017, 03:49:51 PM
Would a council worker follow orders from above to sabotage the pier..... ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 06, 2017, 04:19:58 PM
I would doubt it, but when councillors in Wales seem to behave as they wish and ignore Council tax bills, or shine lasers into pilots' eyes, it does make you wonder if there's much they wouldn't do...
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: OrmeMac on February 06, 2017, 04:36:47 PM
It was probably one of the pigs landing on the Pier that CCBC also believe fly around the area that caused it to collapse.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 06, 2017, 05:29:50 PM
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It was probably one of the pigs landing on the Pier that CCBC also believe fly around the area that caused it to collapse.

I've told you, it was Elvis.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: spotty dog on February 06, 2017, 05:53:32 PM
Before we all get carried away the photo shows a stanchion SOCKET that the upper station sits in, this is a cast iron part so is brittle while the stanchion is in column is immensely strong ,but if the upper deck fractured and pulled it out of column it would snap leaving the jagged edge down the side and the flat top of the socket as shown
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 06, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
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Before we all get carried away the photo shows a stanchion SOCKET that the upper station sits in, this is a cast iron part so is brittle while the stanchion is in column is immensely strong ,but if the upper deck fractured and pulled it out of column it would snap leaving the jagged edge down the side and the flat top of the socket as shown

Are you an engineer then Spotty Dog?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on February 06, 2017, 08:23:06 PM
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Before we all get carried away the photo shows a stanchion SOCKET that the upper station sits in, this is a cast iron part so is brittle while the stanchion is in column is immensely strong ,but if the upper deck fractured and pulled it out of column it would snap leaving the jagged edge down the side and the flat top of the socket as shown

Are you an engineer then Spotty Dog?

I have 32 years in engineering Fester, thats why I came up with a reasonable hypothesis for what has happened where as those without such knowledge usually come up with conspiracy theories.
PS. Elvis has left the building.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on February 07, 2017, 10:39:44 AM
No wonder they've cut the bin collections back. Must have cost them a fortune to pioneer that invisable cutting machine  :roll:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 07, 2017, 05:12:24 PM
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It was probably one of the pigs landing on the Pier that CCBC also believe fly around the area that caused it to collapse.

I've told you, it was Elvis.

I don't think that it was Elvis because I saw him on the beach in Old Colwyn and spoke to him a few days ago and can confirm that he is alive and well. 
With regard to the stanchions on the pier then I can appreciate the expert advice of the engineers and the explanation given as to how and why the stanchions have been fractured in such a way.
On the other side with three stanchions being fractured in exactly the same place and in the same manner and a fourth at an angle and nothing having happened similarly in over a 100 years it is understandable how people without the engineering expertise could jump to that conclusion.
Sadly there will be no winners in this incident whoever is right about the reason for the pier collapsing

PS    Elvis is a big fluffy bouncy Old English Sheepdog!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 07, 2017, 05:25:54 PM
Have we actually had any expert advice, though?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 07, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
Well we have had opinions from people with an engineering background but it needs an engineer to have a close inspection of the stanchions.
I had a look again today and took this photo of the third broken stanchion but it is just like the others apart from the fact that most of the stanchion has not been removed
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 07, 2017, 06:57:10 PM
Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: spotty dog on February 07, 2017, 07:10:43 PM
Its a structural engineer you require somebody like Bill Halls, but I think he has retired now, but you are tilting at windmills here
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 07, 2017, 08:31:04 PM
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Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers.

I don't know any, Ian, I'm sorry (I used to be an architect, but not for some time). I do recall that both of the reports on the condition of the pier (Datrys, 2010, and the 2013 CCBC-published one) stated that the main structural elements (eg "cast-iron piles and columns") were sound, with potential problems lying elsewhere (eg "bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck" needed repair). The 2013 report says "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected".

I hope the recent collapse is looked into closely, without anyone ruling anything (including sabotage) out in advance. It's easy for people to mock the whole suggestion as "conspiracy theory", but if you've read Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs column, you'll know that weirder, more outrageous and scandalous things have been known to occur. Not that anyone should make accusations without evidence, of course. No doubt there's a relatively innocent explanation - but CCBC's actions and statements regarding the pier have always deeply puzzled me.



Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 07, 2017, 10:29:23 PM
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Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers.

I don't know any, Ian, I'm sorry (I used to be an architect, but not for some time). I do recall that both of the reports on the condition of the pier (Datrys, 2010, and the 2013 CCBC-published one) stated that the main structural elements (eg "cast-iron piles and columns") were sound, with potential problems lying elsewhere (eg "bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck" needed repair). The 2013 report says "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected".

I hope the recent collapse is looked into closely, without anyone ruling anything (including sabotage) out in advance. It's easy for people to mock the whole suggestion as "conspiracy theory", but if you've read Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs column, you'll know that weirder, more outrageous and scandalous things have been known to occur. Not that anyone should make accusations without evidence, of course. No doubt there's a relatively innocent explanation - but CCBC's actions and statements regarding the pier have always deeply puzzled me.

That's very  interesting BMD and the third stanchion that was photographed today is still there, stump and all.    Would an engineer or some other expert be able to say whether it was a fracture or cut?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: born2run on February 08, 2017, 09:53:50 AM
I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.
They would have booked their sabatouer to come in and destroy the pier for the Friday, but he would have had some sick days to use and cancelled last minute, so they would have had to rearrange the job for sometime in the week but would have forgot to send the full details to the replacement sabatouer who in turn would have cut down the wrong pier and Llandudno pier would now be in the sea instead  $good$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on February 08, 2017, 10:20:23 AM
 _))* _))* _))*
 
I like that thought :-) 

While I agree it's unlikely, odder things do happen with individuals; who'd have thought a councillor would face jail after shining lights into pilots' eyes as they were trying to land? I wouldn't be in the least surprised to discover that someone had perhaps visited the pier supports with a small bottle of sulphuric acid and, over the course of several weeks, sprayed them along the potentially weakest line.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 08, 2017, 11:14:47 AM
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I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.

I know what you mean, but look at the whole Porth Eirias farce - or series of farces. Firstly, apparently nobody noticed or cared (until it was too late, ie past planning permission stage) that the council had the design changed from the original glass-clad publicly-approved competition-winning entry to something resembling a giant skip - later shortlisted by independent experts for the Carbuncle Cup. How was that allowed to happen?

Incompetence mixed with determination, especially when pursuing something unpopular with (or hidden from) the public, often seems to end up bulldozing things along to some planned target, usually in a destructive or ugly or dubious way. I'm talking generally of course - it's not just CCBC. With the Skip, the desired (amended, face-saving) target was finally reached - a successful celebrity-chef restaurant in place. But at huge public cost, delayed for years, and with a leaky, ugly building that still looks like building site.

Extrapolate the same mixture of incompetence and determination-against-public-wishes (not to mention lack of transparency) to the destiny of the pier, and let's see what we end up with, and by what dubious route.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 08, 2017, 12:12:18 PM
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I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

It's like Chinese whispers and the message gets distorted along the way, now the alleged action was in broad daylight whereas the original posting mentioned the evening.
There are 3 stanchion stumps remaining, of which one also has the upper part of the stanchion remaining so it won't take a rocket scientist to say whether the post has been tampered with or not.   That would settle the fiasco once and for all.
As I've said there are no winners in this matter and the only one that could benefit from the collapse of the pier is the demolition firm, if it comes to the demolition stage.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 08, 2017, 12:51:48 PM
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I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.
They would have booked their sabatouer to come in and destroy the pier for the Friday, but he would have had some sick days to use and cancelled last minute, so they would have had to rearrange the job for sometime in the week but would have forgot to send the full details to the replacement sabatouer who in turn would have cut down the wrong pier and Llandudno pier would now be in the sea instead  $good$

Please give B2R the prize for best post of 2017, thus far.   Hilarious.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 08, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
Just to put an end to any more speculation,  the Save our Pier supporters had a good meeting with the council yesterday and the Council showed some pictures from their engineers and there doesn't seem to be any tampering as the stanchions are hollow and have broken off at the sleeve towards the bottom.
The stanchions on the beach are intact.

I was not advised of what is going to happen to the pier in the future, other than that they are going to make it safe next week
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 08, 2017, 03:03:23 PM
There seems to be quite a lot of media coverage - eg on ITV, BBC, Daily Mirror websites.

I noticed this comment:

Chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust Mark Roberts said: "I noticed two to three weeks ago certain strengthening elements on the pier had disappeared and considering the council's planned demolition application I find this an unsavoury coincidence." http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)

And Clwyd West MP, David Jones, blames CCBC and makes the point that the pier is a listed building and that CCBC had a responsibility to "ensure it was preserved in a sufficiently safe condition". http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-sea-9738568 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-sea-9738568)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 08, 2017, 07:29:56 PM
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Chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust Mark Roberts said: "I noticed two to three weeks ago certain strengthening elements on the pier had disappeared and considering the council's planned demolition application I find this an unsavoury coincidence." http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx[/url
 (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx)

?!?!?  Therefore there are serious questions still to be answered
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 10, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
Plan to 'dismantle' Colwyn Bay pier before a store and restore project
Victoria Pier Trust and Conwy council reach agreement over the way forward for the Listed structure.
Now council officers and the Victoria Pier Trust have identified a collaborative way of working on the future of the Victoria Pier at a meeting this week.

Both organisations believe that the best way of securing a future for the pier, is to carefully dismantle it before any more damage is done to this Grade II Listed building by storms and tides.
Council officers agreed to submit a Listed Building Consent application to dismantle the pier and then store the dismantled listed components for the Trust to restore in the future.

At the meeting, members of the Trust shared their draft feasibility plan for the future of the pier.
This aims to contribute to the regeneration of Colwyn Bay by restoring the pier to provide vibrant food, drink and events spaces.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plan-dismantle-colwyn-bay-pier-12588886 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plan-dismantle-colwyn-bay-pier-12588886)

Out of sight springs to mind, also would the restoration be eligable for lottery grant funding?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 10, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Dismantle a rusting, rotting pier....and store it for 'the future'???
What madness is this?
Once it's gone, it's GONE!!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 10, 2017, 07:00:35 PM
Bizarre. What happened to the council's whole objection that restoration would be too costly? (In spite of them spending lavishly on other nearby projects).

This proposal (if I understand it) would ADD the cost of dismantling/cataloguing/storage, etc, to the cost of restoration/rebuilding -- assuming, that is, that the council is serious about the restoration/rebuilding part.

But then logic has never struck me as being a strong point of CCBC's arguments regarding the pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on February 10, 2017, 07:19:46 PM
Ah, I think this answers my question:

These plans will require a major funding package, but, if delivered, could provide a sustainable future for the pier which wouldn’t draw on Conwy County Borough Council finance

So CCBC won't be contributing any funding to rebuilding of the pier? That's why they're happy with the proposal to dismantle.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on February 10, 2017, 09:14:51 PM
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Dismantle a rusting, rotting pier....and store it for 'the future'???
What madness is this?
Once it's gone, it's GONE!!

Where ever would they store all that rotting debris? I could think of a skip that they could use ! WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 11, 2017, 01:55:35 AM
It's the most ridiculous and unsatisfactory outcome that could possibly have emerged.
Fair enough, compromise is always a good thing in long running disputes, but this?

I'm an old man now, but I guarantee that once it's 'dismantled' , it will never be seen again in the lifetime of anyone in North Wales, nor their grandchildren.

It seems to me that the Trust have caved in and realised that no funding will ever be forthcoming, so it's a face-saving climb down.
CADW, PLEASE call this decision in, and put a stop to this vandalism.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Blongb on February 11, 2017, 11:24:05 AM
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It's the most ridiculous and unsatisfactory outcome that could possibly have emerged.
Fair enough, compromise is always a good thing in long running disputes, but this?
CADW, PLEASE call this decision in, and put a stop to this vandalism.

Unfortunately the vandalism was perpetrated during WWII for all the right reasons at that time. The great pity is that the Pier was never fully restored back in the late 40's when it might have stood a chance of being maintained properly. No money was ever forthcoming so its demise was a forgone conclusion.  Today every structural part of the pier would have to have been replaced to make it safe for the public to use. With the state of current local government finance, I think CCBC have far more pressing things to spend their budget on. 
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: ormegolf on February 12, 2017, 08:58:44 AM
When you say vandalism during the war years are you referring to the boards being lifted so that any German invasion couldn't use the pier to get to land? I don't remember that happening to colwyn bay pier, but it most certainly happened to the Rhos pier. On the rhos pier we kids used to either walk a tightrope across the maybe two foot wide main girder or else drop down on to lower ironwork and edge across holding on to the top girder. All to get to pigeons eggs in the U disturbed nests at the far end. Any slipwould have meant an immediate death on the large rocks many feet below. I did it. The most frightening part was when I realised I had to go back again or starve to death
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 12, 2017, 11:18:17 AM
Fabulous story Mike, the crazy things we all did in our youth, without thinking of the consequences.

As you say, Rhos Pier did indeed have large sections of decking removed in WWII, as it was such a long pier and could conceivably have had enemy vessels docking at the end.
However, I can find no historical record of the same happening at Colwyn Bay, nor would it have been necessary as the state of the tides there would have made a Pier invasion pointless.
The beaches and coves will have been defended instead I would imagine.

Anyway, all this talk will soon be redundant as the pier gets taken down, and disappears... FOREVER!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on February 12, 2017, 11:30:09 AM
If this wind carries on the rest of the structure will go. Just come back from there and the waves are over the top of the Cayley Café, so you can imagine how rough it is !
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2017, 12:14:19 PM
I can see from my window that Rhos is having a battering this morning and the waves are coming over the Prom.  Thank goodness for that breakwater or otherwise Rhos would have been flooded today.
It must be equally as bad by the pier and Old Colwyn too.
I wonder what effect it will have on the structure of the pier today because when those three stanchions snapped and the fourth was leaning the weather was relatively calm.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 14, 2017, 01:25:08 PM
Colwyn Bay pier 'perilous and at risk of further collapse' investigation finds
Engineers who have inspected the structure say sections will have to be demolished 'to pre-empt an uncontrolled collapse'

The investigation found that the tide was low at the time the end of the pier began to collapse, so surveyors have concluded that the weather or water was not what caused it to fall.

According to the engineers’ survey, “the sudden partial failure of the pier indicates the fragile nature of the structure in its current condition, with the loss by corrosion of key structural elements”.

Several sections of the pier buckled and collapsed, and there are 12 more sections that are feared to be at risk of falling down in the “foreseeable future”.

The report recommends taking them down to avoid them falling, and a controlled demolition will have to take place to “pre-empt an uncontrolled collapse with the attendant risks to the public and damage to components of the pier”.

“Risk to the public from further collapse can not be discounted”, the report warns, “given the current perilous condition of the pier structure”.

At the meeting of the council’s cabinet at 2pm today , councillors will decide on the course of action to take. Since the pier began to collapse, there have been calls from pressure groups to ensure that what remains of the pier - a listed structure - can be saved .
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-perilous-risk-12602197 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-perilous-risk-12602197)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 14, 2017, 06:21:12 PM
Plan to dismantle and store parts of Colwyn Bay pier backed by councillors.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 14, 2017, 06:42:21 PM
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Plan to dismantle and store parts of Colwyn Bay pier backed by councillors.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732)

Or put another way..... 'convenient way to shut those up who want to restore it, and quietly get rid of the pier'
Politicians eh?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 15, 2017, 08:59:39 AM
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Plan to dismantle and store parts of Colwyn Bay pier backed by councillors.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/plan-dismantle-store-parts-colwyn-12604732)

Or put another way..... 'convenient way to shut those up who want to restore it, and quietly get rid of the pier'
Politicians eh?
It reminds me of the time the entire seaward end theatre at Brighton Palace Pier was dismantled and put into storage following storm damage...it was never seen again!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Bosun on February 15, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Anyone who thinks that the pier is going to be restored now is totally delusional.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 15, 2017, 02:23:01 PM
Sadly, it demonstrates how little power agencies like CADW have, and it makes a mockery of legislation covering Listed properties.
A dangerous precedent being set here for anyone wishing to demolish other national treasures.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Quiggs on February 15, 2017, 08:03:18 PM
I know where they can store it 'Arch Motors', it'll probably end up there anyway  ;D
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 23, 2017, 02:01:26 PM
Re alw post .... Colwyn Bay Pier has suffered further damage in the storm.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-under-12646358 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-under-12646358)

Being optimistic, if that section cannot be saved or is to expensive to restore, then forget it, a shortened pier would be OK  .......wasnt that bit an add on anway ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 23, 2017, 03:17:29 PM
Roll up, roll up.... collect your free souvenir piece of Colwyn Bay Pier,  pick them up directly off the beach!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 23, 2017, 03:25:31 PM
I popped down to the beach at low tide to have a look at the damage and it is bad, very bad indeed.    The first thing that I noticed were the many  people in high visibility jackets that were congregated at the top of the small slipway. Some were engineers and others were Council workers
Then as I was going down the beach to the end of the pier there are numerous large pieces of timber decking that could be dangerous if not moved from the beach immediately.
The CCBC will now have to do something quickly about the pier as it is dangerous for everyone.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on February 23, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
Poignant and sad Hugo,  I hope you don't mind if I share one of those pics?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 23, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
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Poignant and sad Hugo, 

Festers words are spot on,  very sad.

Thanks for those plctures H. A real sense of the problem, and you are right about the timbers, I hit one head on with my little boat back in the 80s, straight through the bow.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 23, 2017, 04:00:12 PM
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Poignant and sad Hugo,  I hope you don't mind if I share one of those pics?

You're very welcome to share any photo I've posted Fester.     It was sad to see it, but it is now dangerous and something will have to be done asap
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: OrmeMac on February 23, 2017, 05:01:09 PM
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Poignant and sad

And the sound of champagne corks popping from CCBC HQ could be heard even over storm Doris.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on February 24, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
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Being optimistic, if that section cannot be saved or is to expensive to restore, then forget it, a shortened pier would be OK  .......wasnt that bit an add on anway ?
Exactly, that bit at the end hasn't been accessible for 40 years anyway, so no great loss.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on February 24, 2017, 04:21:29 PM
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Poignant and sad Hugo, 

Festers words are spot on,  very sad.

Thanks for those plctures H. A real sense of the problem, and you are right about the timbers, I hit one head on with my little boat back in the 80s, straight through the bow.

I've just come back from a short walk on the Old Colwyn beach and noticed about 4 very large pieces of timber there that have drifted  from the pier and I bet that there will be more further down the coast.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 24, 2017, 04:31:24 PM
The 24 comments below this article are mostly negative, I am afraid the collapse has only strengthened the support for those against restoration, mainly because they see tax payers money being involved.

I think the pier trust had better get their  PR hat on, and explain their plans.


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-dismantled-12649331 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-dismantled-12649331)

A few comments bearing in mind  I am biased
Why don't they compromise and instead of pulling the whole thing down, just take down the buildings and turn it into a boardwalk with seating areas on it, and rent spaces out for people to put up little stalls along it, it would be a shame to see it go, it may not be thousands of years old but it is still an important part of the Colwyn Bay history.

The skip came from european funds, and the pier restoration won't cost the taxpayer, however the Skip has lost over 1 million in debt, and with the pending court case and repairs could go up to 6 million, and the Venue Cymru loses 4 million a year , so why don't you round up all your supporters and close down all of these council assets draining Rate payers and stop Squawking yourself, oh, before i forgot the new council tax office in Colwyn Bay is going to cost the council 1 million a year.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 25, 2017, 10:23:35 AM
Drone footage shows scale of Storm Doris' devastation to Colwyn Bay Pier.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drone-footage-shows-scale-storm-12654002 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drone-footage-shows-scale-storm-12654002)

Comment......
Storm Doris has helped the council out by destroying part of the pier. But the pier is not giving up without a fight . What an amazing structure. There is still plenty left for restoration so instead waiting get this project moving.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on February 27, 2017, 03:24:42 PM
Colwyn Bay Pier update
Contractors are on site today to replace/repair the damaged security fencing around the pier.

This weekend, the specialist contractors who will be dismantling the seaward end of the structure have been setting up their site compound at the end of the promenade next to the wing wall up to the pier forecourt.
The compound area will include the slipway as this will provide the contractors access onto the beach and the site.
Machinery and equipment will be delivered today and tomorrow with work expected to start on Wednesday.
The initial work will be to disconnect the collapsed section from the pier and then clear the collapsed materials.
Once completed, work to dismantle the remainder of the seaward section will take place.

It’s estimated that the work will take about 3 weeks to complete.
Council officers will continue to liaise with CADW and HSE, and keep them informed of progress.
Security arrangements will remain in place and members of the public are asked to keep a safe distance from the structure.  Ref DP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 01, 2017, 01:20:52 PM
Watch as demolition of Colwyn Bay pier gets underway

Contractors have moved in on the Victorian structure this morning.

Video..... http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/watch-demolition-colwyn-bay-pier-12673081 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/watch-demolition-colwyn-bay-pier-12673081)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on March 01, 2017, 03:40:15 PM
That film should come with an X rated warning, it's an obscenity to destroy listed buildings like this.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Meleri on March 01, 2017, 03:43:19 PM
An urgent item has been added to the Council meeting tomorrow regarding The Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay (item 15). This meeting is to be webcast and can be viewed on the CCBC webcast portal, it starts at 10am if any ones interested
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 01, 2017, 04:19:55 PM
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An urgent item has been added to the Council meeting tomorrow regarding The Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay (item 15). This meeting is to be webcast and can be viewed on the CCBC webcast portal, it starts at 10am if any ones interested

Thanks M.  I think this is the link.....

https://conwy.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/274505/start_time/0
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 02, 2017, 12:14:24 PM
I tried all I got was..... Playback has been lost. Attempting to resume.....anybody see it?

This might be a hint from the BBC .... Conwy council is due to consider future plans for the structure's possible restoration as a "truncated pier boardwalk" tomorrow.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 02, 2017, 06:57:28 PM
Restoration plan for Colwyn Bay pier?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39138628 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39138628)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on March 02, 2017, 08:29:46 PM
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Restoration plan for Colwyn Bay pier?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39138628 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39138628)

On the face of it, this sounds like great news. As if CCBC has finally come to its senses. Unless they mean they're demolishing it first and then, maybe (but not really), rebuilding it as a boardwalk at some point in the future (which sounds more like what we've been hearing in recent weeks). I'll cross my fingers and hope for the former until we hear more details.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 02, 2017, 08:45:46 PM
BMD, I agree with you, it was a confusing statement, and we can only hope for the best.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 03, 2017, 09:15:09 AM
The CCBC Report shows that the intention is to completely dismantle the pier and then, as a first step, reinstate the section from the shore to the end of the first building with new steelwork etc. The new pier will have no buildings on it.

The idea is that this will then give the Pier Trust a basis from which to submit an Grant Application to reinstate the original pier, that is, the area from the shore to the end of the second pavilion but not beyond. Their plan envisages kiosks along the section currently occupied by the first building and a replacement pavilion on the site of the current one.

Personally, I would prefer for the entire area of the original pier to be reinstated as the first step.

You can read the entire 102 page report here:
http://goo.gl/9zzq2r (http://goo.gl/9zzq2r)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Meleri on March 03, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
If anyone is still interested in watching the CCBC Webcast of the meeting (we couldn't watch on the day) it is finally on the Webcast site. If you scroll up to item 15 and click Watch it will start on that item, which will save you watching the whole meeting.
Brief summary, as from this Wednesday the CCBC now hold the Registered Title to the Pier. The Council voted 36 For, 1 Against and 3 Abstentions to truncate the pier to the first 3 bays and remove the pavilion (which is apparently full of asbestos) There is £650,000 set aside for this.
Then there will have to be a planning application set up to deal with what happens next, but it was made clear the Council would not be footing the bill and that it would be up to the Pier Preservation Group to apply for funding. Cadw agrees with this.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 03, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
Thanks M.   I have reposted a photo that gives an idea of the intended length mentioned above..... truncate the pier to the first 3 bays..... you can just make out the bays, I had hoped they would take it to the existing square bay that still survives.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Meleri on March 03, 2017, 04:39:59 PM
There was some mention of not wanting to go out too far as the stanchions that are sitting in water would have to be replaced as they aren't sound and that could be costly. At the meeting they were referring to diagrams and pictures but not showing them, which was very frustrating. &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 04, 2017, 09:55:07 AM
Sorry to disappoint, but when they say '3 bays', they mean 3 bays from the Prom end, ie the area currently covered by the shoreward former Golden Goose building.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 04, 2017, 10:35:15 AM
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Sorry to disappoint, but when they say '3 bays', they mean 3 bays from the Prom end, ie the area currently covered by the shoreward former Golden Goose building.

Well thats brought me down, very disappointing, its barely a token, which only makes the future restoration much more difficult.
I assume the photo shows what we are going to get? About 50 metres?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 04, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
I used to go fishing off the end of the Colwyn Bay Pier many years ago but never had much luck in catching anything.       In the future I would have even less as most of the time the end of the pier would be on dry land.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 04, 2017, 12:07:14 PM
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I used to go fishing off the end of the Colwyn Bay Pier many years ago but never had much luck in catching anything.       In the future I would have even less as most of the time the end of the pier would be on dry land.
I think CCBC should take a long walk off a very very very very very very short pier........... $angry$
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 07, 2017, 12:28:28 PM
As regards future buildings on a restored Colwyn Bay pier, I think the best route to go down is something akin to those on Southwold Pier - traditionally designed wooden buildings that are pleasing to look at and easy to maintain.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 07, 2017, 02:04:07 PM
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Sorry to disappoint, but when they say '3 bays', they mean 3 bays from the Prom end, ie the area currently covered by the shoreward former Golden Goose building.

Well thats brought me down, very disappointing, its barely a token, which only makes the future restoration much more difficult.
I assume the photo shows what we are going to get? About 50 metres?
That's it. You can see a plan of the proposed boardwalk here:
http://goo.gl/NdlAL5 (http://goo.gl/NdlAL5)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on March 07, 2017, 02:10:45 PM
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As regards future buildings on a restored Colwyn Bay pier, I think the best route to go down is something akin to those on Southwold Pier - traditionally designed wooden buildings that are pleasing to look at and easy to maintain.

Totally agree. I wasn't too keen on the plans originally put forward by Shore Thing (in 2011 I think). There are some good examples of traditional (and fairly modest) wooden buildings on existing piers. Almost without exception, I think they look great and suit the whole pier "aesthetic".
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on March 07, 2017, 02:20:08 PM
Agree, these are pics of Southwold pier.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 07, 2017, 03:47:27 PM
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Sorry to disappoint, but when they say '3 bays', they mean 3 bays from the Prom end, ie the area currently covered by the shoreward former Golden Goose building.

Well thats brought me down, very disappointing, its barely a token, which only makes the future restoration much more difficult.
I assume the photo shows what we are going to get? About 50 metres?
That's it. You can see a plan of the proposed boardwalk here:
http://goo.gl/NdlAL5 (http://goo.gl/NdlAL5)
Thanks for that DR,    As  I said before I had hoped for a better outcome, and looking at the pile of rusted metal my optimism is waning.   :(
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 07, 2017, 03:55:30 PM
The Southwold pier is actually shorter than the Colwyn Bay Pier, or at least it was but I don't know how they compare now.     I do like the look of the Southwold Pier though and it was viable and profitable, so it  could be an attraction for Colwyn Bay and competition for the Skip too.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: hollins on March 07, 2017, 04:11:41 PM
Southwold pier is 190 metres long.

http://www.southwoldpier.co.uk/about/history/ (http://www.southwoldpier.co.uk/about/history/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 10, 2017, 06:10:13 PM
Fire on Colwyn Bay pier

Two fire appliances are at the scene of a blaze on Colwyn Bay pier.
North Wales Fire Service were alerted at 4.36pm to reports of a fire on the structure which is currently being demolished............  shouldnt this read dismantled?
A North Wales Fire Service spokeswoman said fire fighters from Colwyn Bay and Llandudno are currently at the scene.

More details later. Ref DP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 10, 2017, 06:11:53 PM
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Fire on Colwyn Bay pier

Two fire appliances are at the scene of a blaze on Colwyn Bay pier.
North Wales Fire Service were alerted at 4.36pm to reports of a fire on the structure which is currently being demolished.
A North Wales Fire Service spokeswoman said fire fighters from Colwyn Bay and Llandudno are currently at the scene.

More details later. Ref DP
That would be amazing, given the amount of money CCBC spend on security for the site.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 10, 2017, 07:16:03 PM
Colwyn Bay pier   7pm

Fire fighters are still in attendance on the pier at Colwyn Bay after a blaze broke out earlier.
Smoke was seen rising from the pier, which is currently being demolished, at about 4.30pm and two appliances sent to the scene.
A North Wales Fire Service spokeswoman said the fire fighters are inspecting the structure with officials from the construction company.  Ref DP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SDQ on March 10, 2017, 08:33:24 PM
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Colwyn Bay pier   7pm

Fire fighters are still in attendance on the pier at Colwyn Bay after a blaze broke out earlier.
Smoke was seen rising from the pier, which is currently being demolished, at about 4.30pm and two appliances sent to the scene.
A North Wales Fire Service spokeswoman said the fire fighters are inspecting the structure with officials from the construction company.  Ref DP


Quelle Surprise!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 10, 2017, 10:57:48 PM
Flames break out on Colwyn Bay pier
Firefighters were called to deal with a blaze on the pier at Colwyn Bay and crews are still on the scene.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/flames-break-out-colwyn-bay-12726054 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/flames-break-out-colwyn-bay-12726054)

Comments......
I think it is totally disgusting the way that Conwy county borough council has dealed with the saving of the pier in Colwyn Bay.It is a listed building and it should be saved as it is the heritage of the town.Conwy council are quick enough to charge for on street parking on the promenade in Colwyn bay to pay for lack of services they now provide .It is also disgusting the increase in this years council tax for also lack of services.How can this council justify this? In my opinion they can't.

Please get it right, the pier is NOT being demolished, it is being DISMANTLED and saved for future rebuilding! .
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 11, 2017, 05:05:40 PM
I had a look at the Pier a short while ago and it's a mess and I don't just mean the state of the place.  It's dangerous anyway but even more so now that it is being dismantled.
The safety barriers on the shore have not been put in place and I witnessed a man and boy walking under the pier and spending some time under it looking at the damage that has been caused.
When I have been there before there has been a very pleasant but effective security guard keeping people from crossing over the safety fences. Where was he today or yesterday afternoon when the fire broke out?


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwig6cun887SAhUoCcAKHcsrBbIQqUMIIDAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailypost.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fnorth-wales-news%2Fprobe-launched-colwyn-bay-pier-12726383&usg=AFQjCNF41j-VHim0Shz4fUT5UzHnJCcAVw (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwig6cun887SAhUoCcAKHcsrBbIQqUMIIDAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailypost.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fnorth-wales-news%2Fprobe-launched-colwyn-bay-pier-12726383&usg=AFQjCNF41j-VHim0Shz4fUT5UzHnJCcAVw)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 11, 2017, 09:33:08 PM
Seeing your pictures today Hugo reminded me that a number of years ago ME posted a picture of a Jaguar car which was inside one of those buildings. Wonder if it is still there and if not where it went to????.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on March 11, 2017, 11:38:30 PM
ME  has a few cars and isn't one of them a Jag,  perhaps that's the one he's got.      ;D             ^*^0
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on March 12, 2017, 08:42:53 AM
So the Pier fire was an accident (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39241533). Good to see the 'specialists' undertaking the 'dismantling' know exactly what they're about.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 12, 2017, 09:22:48 AM
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ME  has a few cars and isn't one of them a Jag,  perhaps that's the one he's got.      ;D             ^*^0

OMG He would have needed a paint scraper to remove the encrusted bird muck adorning it ! :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 12, 2017, 12:51:52 PM
That was not the Jag that I had lol! Anyway I sold it last year, moved up to Mercedes now, got a couple of them! I was wondering myself if that jag was still in there?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 12, 2017, 02:16:47 PM
Which building was it in M.E.? Can't imagine it will still be there can you?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 12, 2017, 11:45:38 PM
As I recall it was just behind one of the doors at the front.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 12, 2017, 11:50:23 PM
A Daily Post pic of the Jag in question.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 13, 2017, 08:44:49 AM
Thanks for finding that M. E. I knew that I hadn't imagined it.
 Wonder where it went ?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 13, 2017, 09:13:47 AM
It's not been taxed or mot'd since 2008, might still be in the pier!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 13, 2017, 10:26:33 AM
Mmmmm. Next stop the Irish Sea? WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 13, 2017, 11:15:43 AM
Or fall through the floor?

I wonder what is happening with those murals in the pier?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on March 13, 2017, 02:30:50 PM
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It's not been taxed or mot'd since 2008, might still be in the pier!
I'm pretty sure it is still stored in the shoreward building.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on March 13, 2017, 06:32:16 PM
A barn find ???? :o
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on March 13, 2017, 06:42:36 PM
Just like Fortitude....  Z@@
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on March 21, 2017, 05:48:36 PM
Watch removal of historic features of Colwyn Bay pier that has prompted fury from campaigners

Pressure groups claim elements of the nineteenth century attraction - which is listed - are being dumped in skips.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-historic-12776027 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-historic-12776027)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on April 03, 2017, 11:46:42 AM
A 19th Century pier that was almost destroyed by fire has been voted Pier of the Year.
Hastings beat off Worthing in the competition judged by the National Piers Society (NPS), with Llandudno pier taking third place.

Food for thought........
It was closed for safety reasons in 2006 because it had fallen into disrepair, before fire tore through the structure four years later.
Work to redevelop it began after the council compulsorily purchased it from its owners in 2012.
The redevelopment took more than two years and saw the pier's former pavilion turned into a restaurant and bar.
The structure is now owned by the Hastings Pier Charity and 3,000 shareholders who bought into the project at £100 a share.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-39455620 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-39455620)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on April 11, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
Sad to see the machinery slowly pulling the pier to bits:
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on April 11, 2017, 02:02:47 PM
Don't worry Dave, they are merely dismantling it, carefully for storage... looking after it for a short while only, until it is restored to its former glory.
The council said so, I read it, so it must be true!
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on April 11, 2017, 02:10:04 PM
Did you see all those pigs flying over the other day? :roll: WWW
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on May 09, 2017, 10:41:32 AM
Colwyn Bay pier contractors 'very doubtful' that parts can be salvaged
Work is continuing at Victoria Pier weeks after dismantling was supposed to have been completed.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/colwyn-bay-pier-contractors-very-13005820 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/colwyn-bay-pier-contractors-very-13005820)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 09, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
How can Victoria Pier Trust possibly state this...???

“We are continuing to have positive talks with the Heritage Lottery Fund and we are totally confident the pier will be returned to its former glory,
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on May 13, 2017, 11:04:51 AM
Last night I watched a recording on TV of Hetty Wainthropp Investigations from 1998.    The programme is a comedy detective drama and we had never seen the episode before so we were quite surprised when the opening sequence had a group of school children running under the Victoria Pier in Colwyn Bay.  After that we took more interest in the story and the locations
This episode was filmed in & around Colwyn Bay and the locations included The Pier (inside the pavilion & cafe & outside), Ysgol Bryn Elian & Penrhyn Bay (the boys house on Penrhyn Beach East)
The pier was in a terrible mess even in 1998 and some of the scenes were from inside the big building on the pier.   The episode ended when the villain fell through the rotten planking into the sea.
Looking at the state of the pier in 1998 it's a wonder that it survived for so long afterwards.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on May 15, 2017, 06:21:10 PM
Some more news on the pier

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39924154 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39924154)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Hugo on May 15, 2017, 06:40:48 PM
Just an add on to that posting on the Hetty Wainthropp Investigations that I saw recently.   Nothing stays the same anymore and the Colwyn Bay Pier is an obvious example and on another scale so is the dormer bungalow in Penrhyn Bay which featured on the show.
If anyone has gone to Angel Bay in Penrhyn Bay they have probably passed this bungalow which had a conservatory on the side and also a large side garden.
When I saw the house and land today part of the garden was fenced off and controversial plans to build a futuristic looking bungalow in the garden were passed in 2016 much to the dismay of the residents of the estate.
Anyone passing the garden would have appreciated the views from there but soon the only people able to enjoy the views will be the owners of the new property.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiinPKEtfLTAhWpC8AKHRkQAUYQtwIIJTAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnrklGkLyLjI&usg=AFQjCNFdYu0PyHWT3A8108hKFfB_ZgWDqQ (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiinPKEtfLTAhWpC8AKHRkQAUYQtwIIJTAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnrklGkLyLjI&usg=AFQjCNFdYu0PyHWT3A8108hKFfB_ZgWDqQ)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on May 16, 2017, 10:33:15 AM
Plans to dismantle remainder of Colwyn Bay Pier lodged.

I did not realise that planning consent was only for the seaward section, now new plans are being lodged, surely this is a chance for The Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust, albeit a slim one, to try and save whats left.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plans-dismantle-remainder-colwyn-bay-13038763 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plans-dismantle-remainder-colwyn-bay-13038763)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on May 19, 2017, 11:00:16 AM
Funding blow for 'high risk' Colwyn Bay Pier restoration project

Campaigners hoping to develop a dilapidated pier have been dealt a blow after their funding bid was turned down.

Nigel Gilbert, vice-chairman of the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust (CVPT) said the group had to pick itself “off the floor” after learning the Heritage Lottery Fund bid to redevelop Colwyn Bay Pier had been denied because the project was deemed too “high risk”  ref DP
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on May 20, 2017, 12:41:56 AM
What did they expect????
For heavens sake..... they were lead down the garden path.
They were 'compliant' in allowing this listed treasure to be (ahem) dismantled.
On the spurious promise that some of it would be restored and rebuilt.

Let this be a lesson to all those who think it's wise to compromise.

Stand your ground!  Do all that is necessary to thwart those who seek to destroy.
There are laws, covenants and codicils in existence to help you.  But the minute you fall soft, they'll wipe you out.

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on May 20, 2017, 08:16:15 AM
The original funding offer was withdrawn, IIRC, because of the legal issues mounted by the previous owner.  It seems to have been a combination of him, CCBC's incompetence and bad weather that's doomed the thing.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: BMD on May 20, 2017, 11:31:40 AM
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The original funding offer was withdrawn, IIRC, because of the legal issues mounted by the previous owner.  It seems to have been a combination of him, CCBC's incompetence and bad weather that's doomed the thing.

Yes, and I also think that certain influential people in (and associated with) CCBC have had a strong intent (going back years) to get rid of the pier. The reasons they've cited have changed over time, but it's been constant in one sense - get rid of it. As a result CCBC has seemed two-faced - on one hand seeming to cheerlead for the pier when it was awarded a £594,900 development grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund four years ago. But then, only six months later, using a dubious, inflated, somewhat arbitrary, but widely-publicised refurbishment estimate, as a licence to vote to demolish and return the lottery money.

I think an earlier variant of the campaign group (Shore Thing?) gave CCBC the benefit of the doubt at one point, but then later it became clear (from their social media posts) that they'd lost any faith or trust in the council. Presumably there are new personnel in the latest variant of the pier campaigning group -  and they didn't see that CCBC were still intent on getting rid of the pier, and in using all available justifications for doing so (so as to avoid the wrath of the public they are supposed to represent).
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on July 06, 2017, 04:05:38 PM
Council plans to completely demolish Colwyn Bay pier
Planning bosses are set to decide next week whether or not to give permission for it to be taken down and replaced with a shorter pier

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-plans-completely-demolish-colwyn-13292762 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-plans-completely-demolish-colwyn-13292762)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on July 06, 2017, 10:59:52 PM
It was a foregone conclusion, they were never going to act in good faith to keep their promises to protect the pier.
Politicians are utterly untrustworthy.... and I'm sick of it.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on July 07, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
And now todays headline...........

Colwyn Bay pier 'must be demolished immediately over collapse and contamination fears'.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-demolished-13295649 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/colwyn-bay-pier-must-demolished-13295649)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on July 07, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
So the Pavilion is now at danger of collapse due to the fact that most of the supporting structure around it has been dismantled?

Who'd have thought it, eh?
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on July 12, 2017, 05:16:25 PM
Officers recommended approval of demolition application.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-13320358 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-13320358)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Nemesis on July 12, 2017, 08:26:58 PM
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Officers recommended approval of demolition application.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-13320358 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/live-colwyn-bay-pier-demolition-13320358)

Headline on Teletext or whatever it is now called says that they will build a new shorter pier at the end nearest to the land. :o I never would have thought of that ! :-X
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on August 16, 2017, 11:36:13 AM
Fight to save pier not over.....

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/home/2017/08/16/gallery/fight-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier-is-far-from-over-says-trust-92872/ (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/home/2017/08/16/gallery/fight-to-save-colwyn-bay-pier-is-far-from-over-says-trust-92872/)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Fester on August 16, 2017, 12:11:42 PM
Of course it's over, the fact that there is very little left of it kind of proves the point.
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on September 21, 2017, 10:53:16 AM
Colwyn Bay pier: Asbestos 'could contaminate beach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-41335953 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-41335953)
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: SteveH on October 06, 2017, 05:27:59 PM
"The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier"    :( :( :(

Colwyn Bay's pier can now be pulled down after consent from the Welsh Government.
Conwy County Borough Council has received permission to dismantle Victoria Pier after a long running battle over its future.
The Listed Building Consent from the Welsh Government allows the Council to dismantle the structure and redevelop a truncated pier.

Council Chairman, Cllr Brian Cossey, said: "We’d like to thank the Minister for giving the application the careful consideration needed to reach this decision.
“Over recent years the Council has been quite clear about the deteriorating state of the pier and the significant risk it posed to public health and safety.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/final-nail-coffin-colwyn-bay-13728547 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/final-nail-coffin-colwyn-bay-13728547)

Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: Ian on November 01, 2017, 08:24:25 AM
Meanwhile, Hastings pier, owned and run by the community, has just won yet another award.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711)

The council must be so proud. 

"Daddy, what really important things did you accomplish when you were a councillor?"
"Well, son, I managed to destroy the pier."
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on November 03, 2017, 11:30:32 AM
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Meanwhile, Hastings pier, owned and run by the community, has just won yet another award.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711)

The council must be so proud. 

"Daddy, what really important things did you accomplish when you were a councillor?"
"Well, son, I managed to destroy the pier."
The unfortunate thing is that Hastings Pier is now struggling financially, entirely thanks to the architects lack of business understanding. I listened to an interview with him on Radio 4 the other day and he said something along the lines of 'I wanted the pier to have lots of open spaces rather than buildings'. The bit he didn't understand about piers is that the buildings contribute the revenue thats necessary to fund the continued maintenance to a pier, whilst vast areas of decking contribute not a penny.  &shake&
Title: Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
Post by: DaveR on December 11, 2017, 09:44:00 AM
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Meanwhile, Hastings pier, owned and run by the community, has just won yet another award.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41817711)

The council must be so proud. 

"Daddy, what really important things did you accomplish when you were a councillor?"
"Well, son, I managed to destroy the pier."
The unfortunate thing is that Hastings Pier is now struggling financially, entirely thanks to the architects lack of business understanding. I listened to an interview with him on Radio 4 the other day and he said something along the lines of 'I wanted the pier to have lots of open spaces rather than buildings'. The bit he didn't understand about piers is that the buildings contribute the revenue thats necessary to fund the continued maintenance to a pier, whilst vast areas of decking contribute not a penny.  &shake&
Hastings Pier is sadly now in administration:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-42114937 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-42114937)

A sad example that a pier is, above all, a business, and should be treated as such in order to ensure its longevity.