Llandudno in the 1851 census.

[Helig]

I have been looking through the census taken in Llandudno in 1851 and have noted details of properties, occupiers and their occupations. There were some items of interest which I also copied.

It appears there were houses along what is now the North Shore, these are just listed as "Morfa", neither names, nor numbers. I wondered if there are any lithographs, or engravings showing these dwellings at or around that time. Has anyone ever seen any?

One of the items of interest was a man described as "Living in cave" which seems to have been located on the Great Orme.

Helig.

[Nemesis]

There were quite a number of cave dwellers around on the Orme-- still are at times!

[martin]

Helig.  For a famous cave dweller have a look at this - Topic: Great Orme Gunsite Memoirs, page 5, posted by Hugo it is about a lady who live in a cave on the Great Orme and reared many children.

[Bri Roberts]

Helig, there should be a photograph on this forum somewhere of a drawing by R Green and entitled Llandudno 1852.

It was coloured in not too long ago by Dianne Bannerman and a copy also hangs in the Llandudno Museum.

It shows all the properties along North Parade from Pwllygwichiad Farm up to Minydon.

A few years ago, I allowed Craig Ollerton to take a picture of my copy and it is that which is hidden on here somewhere.

Maybe, the site administrator DaveR will know how to find it for you.

[Hugo]

I have been looking through the census taken in Llandudno in 1851 and have noted details of properties, occupiers and their occupations. There were some items of interest which I also copied.

It appears there were houses along what is now the North Shore, these are just listed as "Morfa", neither names, nor numbers. I wondered if there are any lithographs, or engravings showing these dwellings at or around that time. Has anyone ever seen any?

One of the items of interest was a man described as "Living in cave" which seems to have been located on the Great Orme.

Helig.

You can get that information on pg 190 of Christopher Draper's book " Llandudno before the hotels"  it costs £9.95 and is a very good read. It covers the period up to about 1850 ish and also describes at page 164 life and the people of the old village.  Fascinating stuff.

Helig, is the man described as living in a cave Thomas Kendrick? He actually lived below the cave in Tan Yr Ogo Cottages but have a look under the heading of " Gunsite memories" and you will see postings of Miriam Yr Ogof who was the last person in Llandudno to live in a cave. She and her husband Isaac reared 15 children in the Gogarth cave.

[dwsi]

is this the map?

[Hugo]

That's the map Dwsi although it doesn't show Ty'n Y Ffrith (by the Washington Hotel) whose owner refused to relinquish the freehold to Lord Mostyn.

[Cambrian]

Looking at the plan, the boundary line between between the two parishes suggests to me that the lower end is in the vicinity of what is now Vaughan Street.  Some readers may recall two of the old boundary stones set at right angles to each other where the boundary reaches the promenade verge. This marked the right-angled bend where the line from Vaughan Street headed down the verge between the Parade and the promenade itself - this bend seems quite clear on the plan.

[Bri Roberts]

Just to clarify, Cambrian, (13) Elias Evans is roughly where the Imperial Hotel is today or am I completely wrong?

[Cambrian]

I would say yes Bri. possibly Elias' property is slightly beyond what is now the Imp - hard to scale this.

[Hugo]

I'm just reposting the items about Miriam Yr Ogof for Helig.

[Hugo]

The Morfa boundary on the eastern end was the adjoining Parish of Eglwysrhos (Marine Hotel site)

[Helig]

Thank you for all the replies. I will try to find the photograph of the drawing on the site if it not that which has been posted.

The cave dweller is named as John Stephen, unmarried, age 48, an Agricultural Labourer. I cannot decipher his place of birth. The enumerator has written in his details and then crossed them out with a line through them. This entry is the last for the second area of Llandudno. It runs west from the road that runs from Eglwys Rhos. The property before the cave is The Vicarage, occupied by James Davies, Head of the household, his occupation is shown as National School Master. Prior to that is Penymynyd. This is occupied by William Owens, Head of the household, his occupation is shown as a Farmer.  The Telegraph Service Station is immediatley before this, head of the household, Job Jones, Telegraph Keeper. The descriptions suggest it is on the Great Orme, close to the summit.

The people shown as living in properties described as "Morfa" are as follows:

Richard Hughes, Miner, born Amlwch.
Benjamin Robison, Miner, born Amlwch.
Elias Evans, Ag Lab, born Denbighshire, Bettws.
Sarah brookes, Widow, Miner's widow, born Conwy.
Henry Davies, Miner, born Llandudno.
John Thomas, Miner, born Amlwch.
Edward Brookes, miner, born Berthengam, Flints.
Owen Thomas, School Master, born Llandian, Anglesey.
William Jones, Miner, born Anglesey.
David Highes, Miner, born Llandudno.
George Wynn, miner, born Llanrhos.
Samuel Edwards, Miner, born Llandudno.
John Owens, Miner, born Llandudno.
Jane Jones, widow, born Gyffin.


These are the heads of households only. The "Morfa" that for what is now the North Shore. There are others shown in the second area for "Morfa" on what is the West Shore now. There seem to have been quite a number of houses there.

The next property is called Ty Isa, occupied by James Williams, Miner.

There is an interesting entry before the houses at "Morfa". This property is called Bodafon and the head of the household is John Williams, Land Agent, born Llanbeblig, Caerns. His household consists of 15 people, including 6 children and 5 servants. Would he have worked for the Mostyn Estate?

From the occupation details of residents of the town then, the vast majority were miners. The other occupation was in agriculture, either as a farmer, or agricultural labourer.

Helig.

[Hugo]

Helig, it would be worth you getting the Christopher Draper book "Llandudno before the hotels" because it covers a lot of the things that you are interested in. For example John Williams was a well known tenant farmer for the Mostyn family and he was their land agent too.
In actual fact he was listening in to a conversation in the Kings Head pub in Llandudno and overheard Owen Williams talking about his vision of the future for Llandudno.  John Williams promptly told the Mostyns and the rest is history
About a dozen cottages were built on the West Shore sand dunes in 1783 and a terrace of them remained until 1936 when they were pulled down. My mother's family were one of the last tenants to live in the terrace. They were called Penmorfa Cottages (official title was Min y Don Cottages) and one that was previously called Glan Y Don is still remaining.
The name John Stephen escapes me but although there have been people living in the caves in recent times, it is generally accepted that Miriam Jones (Yr Ogof) was the last of the families living in caves on the Orme.
Her Husband Isaac actually listed his address in the 1861 Census as " cave by Gogarth"

[Hugo]

The houses built on the morfa (North Shore) were built by squatters under the old Welsh tradition of Ty Unnos ( one night house) and were built on common land until Lord Mostyn legally stole it from the people of Llandudno.
The houses on the West Shore were purpose built by the Mostyns for the Copper miners who worked in the copper mines on the Orme and they were described in the rates book of 1906 that I looked at, as Lord Mostyn's small tenanted cottages.