West Shore Issues

[majormellons]

I'd rather trust actual experts, who have to consider the elemental damage to the whole town, and not just to somebody's front lawn.

This is probably the crux of the matter. Some estimates put sea level rises at 36cm by 2080 and the evidence for increasing extremes of weather is undeniable.  The problems facing low-lying tracts of land such as the Llandudno Isthmus are twofold: protecting the town and yet preserving the amenity.  Protecting the town is relatively simple.  A six-foot high concrete and brick wall around the shores will do the job, yet there might be the odd mutter of discontent. On the other hand , whatever actions are taken will change the shape of the area.

So what's the solution?

For a simpleton like me (thanks Hugo) unless we accept change, we will lose Llandudno under the sea.
I would like my daughter, once her stupid (thanks again Hugo) dad has left this mortal coil, to bring up her children in Llandudno.

But, I guess I'm not incredibly selfish, and only thinking of how I am going to cope with a bit of sand on my gravel drive.

[pebbles]

It seems that there are a lot of older people bemoaning WS.

A lot of rose tinted glasses being worn, thinking back to the summer of 76?

    

Older people?

I'll have you know i was 18 months old in the summer of 76 


So i don't class myself as older people... and yes kids still love it - it's a beach with sand which is all that counts to them
I just meant the whole overall addiction to a town a hundred miles from where they live the rest of the year might not exist longterm. I for one used to cry the day we came home - even at 15!! (I might add i fixed that by going every few months instead of once a year when my other half finally got a car, unfortunately i was 32 by then!)


(I'd like to add as a kid on west shore sitting on the steps in my swimming cosi letting the sea get chest high then moving up a step to let it happen all over again was fantastic! Though i did also like sand, honest!)

[wrex]

This whole debate evolves around the fact before CCBC built the groynes there was no problem with sand,since its horrendous but we have had no flooding,the main problem is CCBC have made no effort whatsoever to stop the sand blowing over and lets be honest it only comes over in one spot.

[Hugo]

Thanks Wrex for your reply and it's just what I was thinking.   I can't remember any flooding before the groynes were built but the sand problem does come in two spots and both are where they have built the groynes.
CCBC should have done something to solve the sand problem, they can't brush it away under the carpet but they are trying to brush it down the drain.

[Yorkie]

Here is a decent article on sand movements, worth reading.  There are others, some containing long equations for the more mathematically minded.   ZXZ

http://www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1488e/i1488e04.pdf

[Ian]

That's a good paper, and reading through it it seems that the only viable option to stop the sand would be to create new dunes, probably on top of the current boating lake position. In effect, the current grassed areas and small lake would be sacrificed to a new dune plantation, which would extend to the roadway.

It's an interesting proposition...

[Hugo]

That's a good paper, and reading through it it seems that the only viable option to stop the sand would be to create new dunes, probably on top of the current boating lake position. In effect, the current grassed areas and small lake would be sacrificed to a new dune plantation, which would extend to the roadway.

It's an interesting proposition...

But don't suggest that to the  CCBC or they will think about putting a cycle path there!           

Why not just leave the groynes where they are and take away the imported sand, much easier and cheaper in the long run.

[pebbles]

I know you guys are quite rightly talking about ways to save LL from the sea and coastal erosion, but i'll do one more bit of nostalgia then i'll be off!

(But before i'm accused of rose tinted glasses of halcion hot summers i'll add that many of my memories of LL as a child were in the wind and rain, but i still had a good time!)

I found this pic i'd scanned a few years ago, of me and my sister in 1983 - i was 8 and we had a great time as you can see, but it shows the steps in great detail so i thought i'd post it. Also shows how muddy the beach could get, but we dug pools so we were happy hehe)



This would have been more or less in front of the golf/toilet block.
I know there's a photo of us in the exact same spot in 1992 looking very p****d off in shock at the new surroundings (!!) but i can't find it, so you're spared that

Ok, i'm off now, carry on 

[Ian]

Why not just leave the groynes where they are and take away the imported sand, much easier and cheaper in the long run.

Not sure about that, but I read somewhere that groynes actively assist sand consolidation, so their very presence might be creating a lot of the problems.

[Hugo]

Thanks very much for posting those photos Pebbles, they do bring back nice memories.     The groynes do not always assist sand consolidation Ian, just look at the Rhos on Sea breakwater.   That's a perfect example of how it should be done, it has stopped the regular flooding in Rhos on Sea and the sand has not built up either, simply because that groyne was not linked to the shore.
Llandudno's West Shore problem was created because those expert consultants linked the groyne to the beach and then compounded the problem by artificially raising the height of the beach to create the problems we now have

[Ian]

Rhos' sand quantities increased significantly after their breakwater was installed. I remember some years ago seeing the hand rail from the steps to the beach disappearing into soft, dry sand. Of course, they didn't have more sand dumped on top of the existing, I imagine.  Having said that I haven't seen the Rhos beach recently.

[Hugo]

They did have a bit of sand dumped on that small beach a few years ago and had some vehicles levelling it off.  I was watching them doing it from my window when I was using the computer.
I don't know where they got it from though as it didn't look a good quality sand and there wasn't much of it either but the families with small children seem to enjoy it

[Ian]

Apropos the original debate, and the Beeb has reported unprecedented sea level rises along the E coast of the US.  The most worrying sentence in the report is this:

"Coastal areas will need to prepare for short term and extreme sea level events".  We may well be witnessing the return of the Gt Orme to an Island.

[Fester]

OMG Ian!   I thought that last bit about Llandudno was actually IN the report!!   
Then I read it, and realised that you had added it in, as your own comment. 

 

[Hugo]

Property prices on the Great Orme would rocket if it was true.